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Cliches you can't stand

Yeah, transporters as described would kill you if you had something in the real world that worked like them, but within Star Trek they don't.
 
I'm sure that if transporters basically just killed and cloned you the Vulcans would have something to say about that. That seems like something they would probably really care about and have the expertise to deal with.
 
Reveen said:
I'm sure that if transporters basically just killed and cloned you the Vulcans would have something to say about that. That seems like something they would probably really care about and have the expertise to deal with.
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Either that, or they've decided to colonize the afterlife and think it's a good idea to send over as many copies as possible. :D


It'd be funny if somebody showed up in the Trek afterlife only to be greeted by dozens and dozens of copies of themselves. "Um, we've got some bad news for you about how the transporter works..."
 
Alert: The conversation on the continuity of consciousness is not suited for this thread
  • Staff Post
    • the conversation on the continuity of consciousness is not suited for this thread
    While a short derail here or there is not an issue, this one has been going on for a few pages. I'll ask everyone involved to take it to another thread if they wish to continue it.
     
  • Staff Post
    • The idea of the cult of a evil god that worships the god by doing evil things. Which I know is a good story protenal. But it often comes up by being Inspired by propaganda by various faiths against their enemies like blood libel and basically everything about Indigenous spiritual practices

    its actual common in various cultures for people to worship "malevolent" gods/Spirts so they don't fuck with them by spreading diseases or causing random deaths. Cant more fiction show something like that. People worshiping gods not because they believe in their ideals or really like smithing or something but because they don't want the gods to fuck with them. Which is historical atleast how Hellenistic paganism worked sometimes.
     
    Night said:
    Yeah. Mithridates was practically the chosen deity of the legions starting in the middle of the Principate, and the reason we know basically anything about Mithridatism (which was a mystery cult and somewhat secretive) is from studying the remains of various Roman military encampments where it was practiced. A lot of them in Britain, for a god of the Middle East.
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    Nitpick, but you are talking about Mithra/Mihr. Mithridates is a Hellenized form of Iranian name meaning "given by Mithra."
     
    Q99 said:
    Here's one: The enemy has a boss, and is in a group with subbosses. Could be 4, could be 9, whatever. That's actually really cool.

    Then the leads work through them all one by one! And the later/last ones are all 'you may have beaten all the rest but I'm stronger!' and goes in acting confident like the hero doesn't have a chance.

    Nah. Once you've gotten through, like, half, the baddies really need to start working together or doing other stuff. Because even if the remaining baddie is the strongest, even by a lot, their bravado comes across as weaker when you've chumped all their group without them doing anything about it, and/or conversely the heroes, even if still outmatched, have a lot more reason to feel confident when they did 'beat the odds' through all the prior ones.

    Even in good media, when the end is just facing off against one person, there's a sense of the protags having a lot of momentum on their side, so if the story isn't going for that, it doesn't quite work. Plus, just mixing things up and "The enemy has X lords and we've beaten Y so we'll just continue on- what do you mean the remaining ones all grouped up??" would be a nice change.
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    Other alternatives: The hero team takes on the villain team all at once. Better, though can still leave 'if the hero team all wins they come across as a bit superior.' Though that can be amalgamated by 'some win, some lose, the winners rescue the losers.'

    Or there's 'the villains are each beaten one by one... but not all die. The final boss comes with several of the already-defeated in various states.'
     
    Crossposting from the Pet Peeves in Fanfiction thread. A post about estimating height and weight in imperial units reminded me of something I'd noticed a while back:

    Silver2195 said:
    That reminds me. This probably belongs in the "Cliches you can't stand" thread rather than here, but have you ever tried converting the official heights and weights for anime, manga, and other Japanese media characters into imperial units? A lot them make no sense.

    Check out how light a lot of the Nasuverse characters are, for instance. Akiha is 99 pounds, Sakura is 101 pounds, Waver is 110 pounds, and Hisui and Kohaku are 95 pounds each. Shirou and Bazett are 128 pounds each, although Archer is 172 pounds. For the characters you'd expect to be light, Zouken is 95 pounds and Illya 75. Saber is 93 pounds.

    On the other hand, Kotomine is 181 pounds. Apparently this is the same in Zero and Stay Night, despite him growing 8 cm (3 inches) in the intervening time. I'm not sure if the idea is that exposure the Grail goop made his body stretch itself somehow, or if it's just an outright error.

    Disappointingly, ORT does not have a listed weight. Nrvnqsr Chaos is 185 pounds, so I guess being made of hundreds of animals smooshed together somehow doesn't affect his weight.

    Perhaps most strangely of all, Cu Chulainn weighs 154 pounds in Stay Night, 159 in Grand Order, and 165 in Extra. Is it possible to gain weight while on the Throne of Heroes? Or is this a side effect of his better Endurance stat under Extra!Rin?

    Bleach is another franchise with some similar oddities, although at least a lot of the super-light characters there are ghosts, while in the Nasuverse the flesh-and-blood human characters actually seem to be lighter than the Servants.

    I'm not sure how much of this is the metric system being a bad fit for people's intuitive understanding of human height and weight, how much of it is unrealistic beauty norms, and how much is just sloppiness. (I also recognize that the average Japanese person is shorter and lighter than the average American, of course, though this has no bearing on some of the stranger inconsistencies.)
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    Konradleijon said:
    Sorry forgot Hinduism was a thing changed it to present tense.

    but Hindus have festivals where they worship different gods right? Even if some gods are part of other gods? But their different aspects. And where one god ends and another begins is hazy. Shinto worships different Gods/Spirts. Where did fantasy writers get that idea from. Most gods weren't jelious if people pray to a different-one
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    Long story short, Hindus do pray to different gods for different things, BUT the sheer size of India means you can't cohere up a similarity in beliefs


    There are Hindus who believe in a supreme entity Ra, others who will pray to Vishnu primarily while acknowledging other gods exists and the traditional polytheistic approach we see from Roman times.
    Konradleijon said:
    The idea of the cult of a evil god that worships the god by doing evil things. Which I know is a good story protenal. But it often comes up by being Inspired by propaganda by various faiths against their enemies like blood libel and basically everything about Indigenous spiritual practices

    its actual common in various cultures for people to worship "malevolent" gods/Spirts so they don't fuck with them by spreading diseases or causing random deaths. Cant more fiction show something like that. People worshiping gods not because they believe in their ideals or really like smithing or something but because they don't want the gods to fuck with them. Which is historical atleast how Hellenistic paganism worked sometimes.
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    Well, there's also worship of deities for them to SMITE the evildoers in the valley over there so.....
     
    Silver2195 said:
    Crossposting from the Pet Peeves in Fanfiction thread. A post about estimating height and weight in imperial units reminded me of something I'd noticed a while back:
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    While I can't say much about Akiha, Sakura, Hisui and Kohaku, all the others seem fine to me? Waver is a particularly late bloomer (like holy shit), but there's nothing wrong other than that? Illya is that of a normal child, Shirou's an athletic teen, and Zouken is that of a wrinkled old man. Saber's weird, so I don't disagree. Edit: though overall, I think 45-50 kilos seem more or less the standard? My sister and mom are around that range, for example.

    And all the weird height-changing aside, Kirei, and Cu are fit as fuck, and they're also huge -- their muscles do most of the heavy lifting. To compare, Kirei is a Light Heavyweight tier (ditto with Archer, more or less), while Cu's Middleweight. Considering what, or who they are, these seem fairly sensible? Addition to that, Bazett is essentially a Super Featherweight fighter (you can actually find RL fighters that fit her bill to a tee).

    I don't disagree that those heavy/height/stuff on manga/anime characters can be unrealistic and ridiculous as shit, especially on the female side, hence why I can't say much on Akiha, Sakura, and Saber. Big part of it being never that light in my life, so I don't know if that's normal or not. So I don't disagree on that aspect.

    But the other examples you just cited are... fine? They make sense. They're not unrealistic. Well, they're unrealistic in the sense that they're at peak in terms of fitness (excluding Zouken, Illya, etc, of course), but they're not so unrealistic that you don't have a real world example to compare them with, and it makes sense for them to be like that considering what/who they are.

    tl;dr: the metric system is fine. the imperial system is not :V
     
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    SoothingCoffee said:
    While I can't say much about Akiha, Sakura, Hisui and Kohaku, all the others seem fine to me? Waver is a particularly late bloomer (like holy shit), but there's nothing wrong other than that? Illya is that of a normal child, Shirou's an athletic teen, and Zouken is that of a wrinkled old man. Saber's weird, so I don't disagree. Edit: though overall, I think 45-50 kilos seem more or less the standard? My sister and mom are around that range, for example.
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    To be clear, I wasn't saying that Zouken and Ilya's weights were unrealistic; I only mentioned them for the sake of comparison. Though I do think Shirou is a bit odd in comparison to Archer specifically. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Kirei's weight in itself, just the height-changing thing.

    Edit: Also, I forgot the really insane example. Frankenstein from Fate/Apocrypha is 5'8'' and weighs 106 pounds - despite being a cyborg!
     
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    Silver2195 said:
    Though I do think Shirou is a bit odd in comparison to Archer specifically.
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    Why is it odd? Shirou is in his late teens, he's in good shape, but he's not fully grown. EMIYA is an adult*, is in most artwork is around a head taller, and looks more muscular, though that's also partially the clothes.

    *I wanna say early 30s, but I don't have a quote for that. I definitely wouldn't put him as younger than mid 20s.
     
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    SoothingCoffee said:
    While I can't say much about Akiha, Sakura, Hisui and Kohaku, all the others seem fine to me? Waver is a particularly late bloomer (like holy shit), but there's nothing wrong other than that? Illya is that of a normal child, Shirou's an athletic teen, and Zouken is that of a wrinkled old man. Saber's weird, so I don't disagree. Edit: though overall, I think 45-50 kilos seem more or less the standard? My sister and mom are around that range, for example.

    And all the weird height-changing aside, Kirei, and Cu are fit as fuck, and they're also huge -- their muscles do most of the heavy lifting. To compare, Kirei is a Light Heavyweight tier (ditto with Archer, more or less), while Cu's Middleweight. Considering what, or who they are, these seem fairly sensible? Addition to that, Bazett is essentially a Super Featherweight fighter (you can actually find RL fighters that fit her bill to a tee).

    I don't disagree that those heavy/height/stuff on manga/anime characters can be unrealistic and ridiculous as shit, especially on the female side, hence why I can't say much on Akiha, Sakura, and Saber. Big part of it being never that light in my life, so I don't know if that's normal or not. So I don't disagree on that aspect.

    But the other examples you just cited are... fine? They make sense. They're not unrealistic. Well, they're unrealistic in the sense that they're at peak in terms of fitness (excluding Zouken, Illya, etc, of course), but they're not so unrealistic that you don't have a real world example to compare them with, and it makes sense for them to be like that considering what/who they are.

    tl;dr: the metric system is fine. the imperial system is not :V
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    ... I don't know what metrics you're using, but Shirou is not gonna be that light while simultaneously being as hilariously buff as he is. That's not how weight works. Muscle weighs a lot, yo :V

    45 kilos is also not really the norm for even short women, let alone ones who do as much physical activity as Saber. BMI is largely horseshit, but it qualifies as underweight for basically any woman five foot or taller. Sakura is certainly not gonna be carting around tits like that while weighing that little -_-
     
    Jaertin said:
    Why is it odd? Shirou is in his late teens, he's in good shape, but he's not fully grown. EMIYA is an adult*, is in most artwork is around a head taller, and looks more muscular, though that's also partially the clothes.

    *I wanna say early 30s, but I don't have a quote for that. I definitely wouldn't put him as younger than mid 20s.
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    The problem is that Archer is Shirou from the future. I don't think it's very common to be a head taller (8 inches taller, in this case) as an adult than you were in your late teens! Pointing out that the increase in weight corresponds to an increase in height doesn't resolve the implausibility, it just restates it.
     
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    Silver2195 said:
    The problem is that Archer is Shirou from the future. I don't think it's very common to be a head taller as an adult than you were in your late teens! Pointing out that the increase in weight corresponds to an increase in height doesn't resolve the implausibility, it just restates it.
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    Magic. The dude literally creates things out of magic and has pocket dimansion full of things he creates.
    Also summoned via magic.
    Being a head taller from his, let's say 18, year old self is possibly the most plausible thing about him.
     
    Silver2195 said:
    The problem is that Archer is Shirou from the future. I don't think it's very common to be a head taller (8 inches taller, in this case) as an adult than you were in your late teens! Pointing out that the increase in weight corresponds to an increase in height doesn't resolve the implausibility, it just restates it.
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    It's not the norm, but I don't think it's that unusual? Late growth spurts do happen, especially with boys. Shirou is 17 during the events of Fate, and I've known guys who shot up at 19-20.
     
    I mean, you all saying about how feasible it is Shirou (physically) grows into Archer, but what's more ridiculous (now that I checked it) is how Waver (19) grew up into El-Melloi II (29). That's some super impressive late growth spurt.
     
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