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Cliches you can't stand

Arawn_Emrys said:
Depends, is this a setting with confirmed afterlife where his evil god rewards him, or possibility of badguy returning with unstoppable hell magic or something?
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Time to start looking for a way to annihilate someones soul i guess.
Because otherwise they are just delaying.

So while were on topic.
I hate the "evil people get rewarded after death for being evil" trope.
 
I'm well aware I run the risk either beating a dead horse, starting a flame war or possibly even both over what my least-favourite cliche is, but I'm gonna say it:

Can we just not with the "1000 year-old loli/shota" trope? The only people I know who like that kind of shit really shouldn't be allowed in polite society.
 
Please fuck off with shipping immortals issues again.
 
Valmond said:
Time to start looking for a way to annihilate someones soul i guess.
Because otherwise they are just delaying.

So while were on topic.
I hate the "evil people get rewarded after death for being evil" trope.
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if they following the ethos of a god with control over their afterlife, chances are they get rewarded in the afterlife. That's sort of how religion works in settings where it's valid. (No IRL arguments please).

Hawkatana said:
I'm well aware I run the risk either beating a dead horse, starting a flame war or possibly even both over what my least-favourite cliche is, but I'm gonna say it:

Can we just not with the "1000 year-old loli/shota" trope? The only people I know who like that kind of shit really shouldn't be allowed in polite society.
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the concept of an immortal child isn't inherently sexualized you know. Peter Pan for example. Although the pre-Disney version played it for terror as much as anything else.

Or a more tragic example from Ravenloft, the child vampire Merilee Markuza. Trapped as a child, and hates every moment about it, even as she's forced to play it up for her own survival. The only friend she has is Adam (Frankenstein's monster) because he treats her with the respect her real age and scholary achievements (accomplished chemist, to the point of publishing her works under a male pen name) deserve. Not once in any of her mentions in the setting is she sexualized.

The concept is fine. The execution is frequently fucked up
 
Alert: Can we avoid going off on a tangent related to alt-history topics?
  • Staff Post
    • can we avoid going off on a tangent related to alt-history topics?
    We have threads to discuss concepts about alt-history that you may dislike, so please take those related topics to the appropriate threads in the future.

    Also. Spaghetti posting. Don't do it. Please thank you have a great day.
     
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    • Arawn_Emrys said:
    if they following the ethos of a god with control over their afterlife, chances are they get rewarded in the afterlife. That's sort of how religion works in settings where it's valid. (No IRL arguments please).



    the concept of an immortal child isn't inherently sexualized you know. Peter Pan for example. Although the pre-Disney version played it for terror as much as anything else.

    Or a more tragic example from Ravenloft, the child vampire Merilee Markuza. Trapped as a child, and hates every moment about it, even as she's forced to play it up for her own survival. The only friend she has is Adam (Frankenstein's monster) because he treats her with the respect her real age and scholary achievements (accomplished chemist, to the point of publishing her works under a male pen name) deserve. Not once in any of her mentions in the setting is she sexualized.

    The concept is fine. The execution is frequently fucked up
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    I can't say for certain but I'd imagine they were inspired by Claudia from Interview with the Vampire. (Anne Rice is kinda like Tolkien in taht you can just sort of safely assume she inspired stuff of certain genre)

    But yeah, it's a fascinating topic. Trapped physically in the body of a child would cause all sorts of problems and it's worth exploring. Claudia is one of the most memorable parts about Interview.
     
    Hawkatana said:
    Can we just not with the "1000 year-old loli/shota" trope? The only people I know who like that kind of shit really shouldn't be allowed in polite society.
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    Sounds like a you problem, which...is always the problem, every single time this subject comes up.

    Like there's a difference between expressing dislike for a thing and veering straight into value judgements, ones that you probably have no business making. Wild imho.
     
    Nikkolas said:
    I can't say for certain but I'd imagine they were inspired by Claudia from Interview with the Vampire. (Anne Rice is kinda like Tolkien in taht you can just sort of safely assume she inspired stuff of certain genre)

    But yeah, it's a fascinating topic. Trapped physically in the body of a child would cause all sorts of problems and it's worth exploring. Claudia is one of the most memorable parts about Interview.
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    Probably. The thing with Ravenloft is that most of the big names are D&D-ised versions of classic horror.
    Victor Mordenheim = Victor Frankenstein
    Frantisek Markov = Dr. Moreau
    Strahd von Zarovich = Stoker's Dracula
    Vlad Drakov = Historical Dracula
    Ankhtepot = The Mummy

    So, yeah, Merilee being a more mature and stable Claudia would certainly work.
     
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
     
    VoidZero said:
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
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    To guard the place because otherwise some chucklefuck will (accidentally) unlock the evil?
     
    VoidZero said:
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
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    Isn't that usually so that they can *keep* it sealed in the can?
     
    VoidZero said:
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
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    And where should they go?

    Pre-industrial societies are all based on arable land. You can't just up and leave, because without that land, well, you just straight up starve. And all land around you will already be in use, owned by other people. Moving around, just moving to someplace else, just is not as straightforward as nowadays. You can't apply modern concepts to a fantasy world. Or well, you can, but that creates all kinds of problems...
     
    VoidTemplar said:
    Ah...cliches - I think I'm gonna go a bit off-script here and also include the various plot points and things people bring up in discussions about alternate history


    Red Flags Everywhere, and No One Notices
    • Sexual and social norms bouncing forty years ahead as a result of a revolution, or just because socialists reach power. (Who knew that the average union worker does not have the social opinions of a 1970's Hippie?)
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    Queer people and queer activism existing before Stonewall is a historical fact and isn't a cliche of some niche genre of speculative fiction.
     
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    VoidZero said:
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
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    The only idea worse than living next to a corrupting evil sealed an arbitrary amount of time ago so you can keep tabs on it and have a great big marker of 'power beyond earthly ken can be found here' as a result is not doing so and trusting whatever seals and protections you set up to do their job in perpetuity and not fail without constant monitoring and maintenance.
     
    FortePlus said:
    Snip
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    I mean, just to settle things, according to SV rules writing sexual situations around a character who looks like a child but is actually older than beer is in fact directly against the rules.

    These rules did drive the story Amelia to another site, and Piers Anthony would probably find himself banned pretty quickly under those rules as well. Which, frankly, I don't think either of those things are bad. I was uncomfortable with Amelia, and I am very uncomfortable with Peir's Anthony who seems to enjoy channeling the pedophilic uncle from many people's nightmares

    Arawn_Emrys said:
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    The 'Loli/shota' part implies sexualization of the child.

    You can thank 4chan for those words being inherently sexualized.
     
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    Tithed_Verse said:
    I mean, just to settle things, according to SV rules writing sexual situations around a character who looks like a child but is actually older than beer is in fact directly against the rules.

    These rules did drive the story Amelia to another site, and Piers Anthony would probably find himself banned pretty quickly under those rules as well. Which, frankly, I don't think either of those things are bad. I was uncomfortable with Amelia, and I am very uncomfortable with Peir's Anthony who seems to enjoy channeling them pedophilic uncle from many people's nightmares
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    Never heard of the story, but yeah, Piers has some issues, although he must be pretty charismatic in person considering how many other authors he's gotten to do collabs with him.
     
    Pidl said:
    Belgium managed to forget that after World War 1 they dumped 35.000 tonnes of chemical grenades in the sea only to 'discover' them in the seventies.
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    And they only discovered it because they were dredging in the area, and divers saw all the bombs laying on the sea floor. Had they dredged later, they would never have found anything because nearby dredging operations changed the sea flows and covered the entire area in silt.

    And to point out just how little we know about that dumping ground.

    De raming van een totaalhoeveelheid van 35.000 ton munitie berust integraal op één getuigenis, uit de tweede hand en 'herverteld' na ruim een halve eeuw. Daarin stelt voormalig directeur van de baggerfirma Decloedt dat gedurende zes maand a rato van 300 ton per dag werd gestort. De veronderstelling dat van deze munitie, een derde gifgas betreft, volgde dan weer indirect uit de verhouding in munitiegebruik op het eind van de oorlog door de Duitse artillerie en dus niet uit registraties bij de stortoperatie ter plaatse.

    Nieuw speurwerk door dr. Luc Vandeweyer (Rijksarchief) en dr. Tine Missiaen (Universiteit Gent), brengt een heel andere waarheid aan het licht. Uit nooit eerder doorplozen dossiers van het Bestuur van het Zeewezen, van de Recuperatiedienst van het Belgisch Leger en van het kabinet van toenmalig Belgisch minister van oorlog Masson blijkt dat het bij het storten op de Paardenmarkt van achtergebleven munitie uitsluitend ging om gifgasgranaten. De gedumpte munitie op de Paardenmarkt bestaat dus hoogstwaarschijnlijk vrijwel volledig, in plaats van voor een derde deel, uit gifgasgranaten.
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    translation via Deepl said:
    The estimate of a total quantity of 35,000 tons of ammunition is based entirely on one testimony, second-hand and 'retold' after more than half a century. In it, former director of the dredging firm Decloedt states that for six months at a rate of 300 tons per day was dumped. The assumption that a third of this ammunition was poison gas, followed indirectly from the ratio in ammunition use at the end of the war by the German artillery and therefore not from registrations of the dumping operation on site.

    New research by Dr. Luc Vandeweyer (State Archives) and Dr. Tine Missiaen (University of Ghent), brings an entirely different truth to light. Files of the Belgian Maritime Administration, the Belgian Army's Recuperation Service and the cabinet of then Belgian Minister of War Masson, which had never been examined before, show that the dumping of leftover ammunition on the Paardenmarkt was exclusively caused by poisonous gas grenades. It is therefore highly likely that the dumped ammunition on the Paardenmarkt consisted almost entirely, rather than one third, of poison gas grenades.
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    www.eoswetenschap.eu

    Bommenkerkhof onder Noordzee groter en giftiger dan gedacht

    De WOI-dumpsite in de ondiepe kustwateren vóór Heist bevat zeer waarschijnlijk veel meer gifgas dan tot nu toe werd aangenomen. Dat blijkt uit ...
    www.eoswetenschap.eu www.eoswetenschap.eu
     
    VoidZero said:
    There's one trope I really don't like. People living around the evil they sealed away eons ago. Not all the execution but the ones where the descendants just have the sealed evil in the village or basement. Like why, you guys knew your forbearer left some nasty baggage and you decided it's a great idea to live beside it? Normal people would seal the evil and just leave, no reason to linger around and certainly not for generations.
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    Oh it can't be all that bad, I mean look at Tristram. It's located right above Hell and...oh. Well I'm sure Sunnydale is alright being the site of a demonic gateway and...oh dear.

    Yeah, if a location is known for living on top of a gateway to Hell or anywhere near it, might be a good time to pack up and leave. Moving away in a fantasy land might be difficult depending on the circumstances of said world, but a modern place like Sunnydale may be easier due to better technology and infrastructure (the residents of Sunnydale ending up leaving after said incident).
     
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