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Cliches you can't stand

bluntblade said:
Maybe. But then, what has he starred in outside of a Thor movie which any of us can remember?
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Well, I remember Extraction but that could just be me. Tim Holland did The Devil all the Time, which tbh I didn't see. Though, both of these film were produced by Netflix, so maybe that says something.

Was Zendaya a big name before the MCU because she starred in Euphoria, which from what I can gather was fairly popular on social media at least.
 
Comrade Future said:
(Although this is largely due to how successful Robin Williams was as a genie)
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Konradleijon said:
The Genie was one character meant primarily for comic relief. Who was made around being voiced by Williams. So it made some sense.

But now it's just famous people instead of voice actors.
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Also, Robin Williams was a comedian & actor, somebody whose career was largely about talking entertainingly to an audience. So there was every reason to expect beforehand that he could do the job well enough.

Just being a celebrity however isn't much of an indicator for being good at anything other than whatever made the person famous.
 
Konradleijon said:
So it made some sense.
But now it's just famous people instead of voice actors.
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Avernus said:
Also, Robin Williams was a comedian & actor, somebody whose career was largely about talking entertainingly to an audience. So there was every reason to expect beforehand that he could do the job well enough.
Just being a celebrity however isn't much of an indicator for being good at anything other than whatever made the person famous.
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I meant that this precedent inspired Katzenberg - there were so many reasons why this experiment was successful. But he made a simplified conclusion - like once it worked with Williams, it will work with others (forgetting about all other factors). As a result, this affected the Industry - and in a very bad way.
In addition, I kind of heard that now these trends are on the decline.

bluntblade said:
Maybe. But then, what has he starred in outside of a Thor movie which any of us can remember?
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He seems to have had a Racer movie - does that count?
 
Uncle said:
Was Zendaya a big name before the MCU because she starred in Euphoria, which from what I can gather was fairly popular on social media at least.
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Big enough, she was a Disney channel star (main character level, not side)

In Spider-Man she was the big name draw for the younger audience, but that role is what helped her break to non kid stuff.
 
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Stop: This is not okay.
  • Staff Post
    • this is not okay.

    Balmung1 said:
    Their Europeans with Roman cultural heritage, of course they're going to have raging murderboners it's their natural state of being but what exactly were the secular rulers doing to counteract this?why dog piling themselves over the chance to fulfill their lifelong dream of exporting violence without that pesky little worry about going to hell for causing massacres and stealing shit from Jewish communities left, right and center. The Catholic Church was never perfect or nice and has the blood of far to many innocents on their hands but it wasn't as if the secular kings were puppets on a string or blameless the in this.
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    Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine, though it absolutely does not belong in this thread. Characterising the vast majority of people on a continent as having 'raging murderboners' is emphatically not.

    @Balmung1 has been infracted under Rule 2 - Don't Be Hateful, and threadbanned for three days.
     
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    • Comrade Future said:
    I meant that this precedent inspired Katzenberg - there were so many reasons why this experiment was successful. But he made a simplified conclusion - like once it worked with Williams, it will work with others (forgetting about all other factors). As a result, this affected the Industry - and in a very bad way.
    In addition, I kind of heard that now these trends are on the decline.


    He seems to have had a Racer movie - does that count?
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    Oh, it's still a thing, but, yeah, they do tend to go for lower-key stars these days. In general, I think you can tell when they made the character first and then picked an actor who had a fitting voice, as opposed to writing the role AROUND the voice. Inside Out comes to mind as a good example of how to do it right. Lewis Black as a sentient personification of the emotion of anger fits perfectly.
     
    woweed said:
    Oh, it's still a thing, but, yeah, they do tend to go for lower-key stars these days. In general, I think you can tell when they made the character first and then picked an actor who had a fitting voice, as opposed to writing the role AROUND the voice. Inside Out comes to mind as a good example of how to do it right. Lewis Black as a sentient personification of the emotion of anger fits perfectly.
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    Before Aladdin, if they invited someone famous, they were actors specializing in TV shows and supporting roles.
     
    Comrade Future said:
    Before Aladdin, if they invited someone famous, they were actors specializing in TV shows and supporting roles.
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    Eh, I mean, celebrity voice acting as a concept goes back a WHILE. Cliff "Ukelele Ike" Edwards (Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio) was a popular jazz musician, as were Phil Harris and Louis Prima (Baloo and Louie in The Jungle Book). Alice in Wonderland features character actor Ed Wynn as the Mad Hatter. And The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad memorably featured the voices of Basil Rathbone and Bing Crosby. But, yes, Robin Williams as Genie was a BIG turning point in making voice-acting something big name actors would want to do. For perspective, Bea Arthur had previously turned down the role of Ursula in The Little Mermaid just three years before Aladdin hit theaters. And after, I mean, James Earl Jones and Matthew Broderick in The Lion King, Mel Gibson in Pocahontas, Jason Alexander in The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Danny DeVito in Hercules, Eddie Murphy in Mulan, Minnie Driver in Tarzan...

    I'd also argue for Toy Story maybe playing a major role here. Usually, celebrities as voice actors had been typecast to roles that particularly fit their voice (Vincent Price as a villain, Paul Lynde in a sneaky role, ETC) and were usually side-characters. But Tim Allen and Tom Hanks in Toy Story were playing the main characters and weren't really playing parts only they could have played, but were still marketed massively. I'd argue it was a turning point in itself for celebrity voice acting.
     
    Uncle said:
    Was Zendaya a big name before the MCU because she starred in Euphoria, which from what I can gather was fairly popular on social media at least.
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    People don't remember or didn't watch Shake It Up and KC Undercover and it shows :(

    It's really funny when I knew Zendaya mostly from Disney Channel, and then she was suddenly everywhere lol. Good for her though.
    bluntblade said:
    But then, what has he starred in outside of a Thor movie which any of us can remember?
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    The Red Dawn remake, Bad Times at the El Royale (a really good movie, go watch it), Men In Black International...
     
    all fictions said:
    People don't remember or didn't watch Shake It Up and KC Undercover and it shows :(

    It's really funny when I knew Zendaya mostly from Disney Channel, and then she was suddenly everywhere lol. Good for her though.
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    To be fair, a lot of people that watched Zendaya as kids on Disney Channel just sort of... grew up with her.
     
    all fictions said:
    People don't remember or didn't watch Shake It Up and KC Undercover and it shows :(

    It's really funny when I knew Zendaya mostly from Disney Channel, and then she was suddenly everywhere lol. Good for her though.
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    The only reason I've heard of KC undercover is because I have a younger sibling.

    Anyone who tapered off watching Disney channel before 2010 probably hadn't heard of her.

    (And I always assume the average poster here is …old and therefore was out of the relevant age range)
     
    all fictions said:
    Shake It Up
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    Honestly, today I remembered that I saw her in this show - especially the episode in which she could not please one old lady (or rather, I saw the last 5 minutes). But to be honest... The fact that I watched these shows on the Disney Channel (which will stop broadcasting in Russia on the 14th) still makes me feel ashamed... Although Wizards of Waverly Place was interesting in its own way.
    all fictions said:
    Bad Times at the El Royale
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    And by the way, I actually watched at this picture - he showed me an ototo. He loves these kinds of films.
     
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    Granted, if you look at his filmography it's pretty dominated by the MCU, so it's not like he couldn't have a big career outside of the MCU, it just hasn't happened yet.

    Though, I think the better example for the MCU creating a star would be Chris Pratt: he had some things before and was popular in Parks and Rec, but I don't think it's too questionable that Guardians of the Galaxy was a huge thing for his career. And famously it did relaunch Robert Downey Jr's.
     
    Less a writing cliche and more an analysis cliche I can't stand. The whole 'People like villains more than heroes because villains are outcasts who oppose the status quo'

    Really? It sounds to me like the people who say this don't know enough villains. There's plenty of villains out there who practically are the status quo and aren't outcasts at all, having good publicity even. Like even in just the Disney animated canon you still have Gaston and Lady Tremaine, and in D&D you have a whole Alignment, Lawful Evil, for status quo villains (granted, characters can vary even in a single alignment)
     
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    LordRageKnight said:
    hey my man Gaston was a great man who was in the right for that time period! If Bell weren't a furry she would've married the best hunter in that 1700s french village.
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    You mean 1890? :V
    (The analysis is somewhat marred by Riquewihr being in Alsace, part of the territory ceded to Germany in the Franco-Prussian War, but it holds together oddly well, and amuses me.)
     
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