I wouldn't mind Constitution coming back as the ultimate shipgirl momboat for the USN.

But yeah, she doesn't belong anywhere near the front lines. Or the back lines. Just safely at base, momboating every single person on base.
 
Though I still wonder what's happened to the steel hull of U-505 in this story. I would imagine that the US would've dug it out of the underground room it's housed in at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago and probably outfit the sub with some modern tech.
But why would you use U-505 when you have perfectly serviceable attack submarines of your own?

And more importantly, do we know for sure that the alterations done to U-505 hasn't made her unseaworthy?
I have to agree with @Icywinter and be blunt with you Abject: that is an incredibly unrealistic, dare I say stupid, idea. Don't get me wrong: I love U-505. I want to read kancolle fics with U-505. But I'm not going to try and shove her into a story where she doesn't belong.
U-505 is not seaworthy, nobody knows how to make her seaworthy, none of the modern submarine equipment in use by the US Navy would fit on the comparatively tiny Type IXC hull, and it'd be far easier to train crews for modern attack boats than a submarine not even the remaining WWII vets would know how to operate.
 
I wouldn't mind Constitution coming back as the ultimate shipgirl momboat for the USN.

But yeah, she doesn't belong anywhere near the front lines. Or the back lines. Just safely at base, momboating every single person on base.
I dunno. I saw a HFY! where Visitor Race #585549 was taken to see Connie, were very unimpressed, and, when war broke out, guess who was at the fore of the battle line. Wooden hull and all. :V
 
At this rate it's only a matter of time before they name a carrier after Richard Nixon or something.
I live in prepared-to-vomit fear of the day some shithead suggests the USS Donald Trump. :sour:
I wouldn't mind Constitution coming back as the ultimate shipgirl momboat for the USN.

But yeah, she doesn't belong anywhere near the front lines. Or the back lines. Just safely at base, momboating every single person on base.
I'd see the Constitution as less a mombote and more the most hard-bitten Chief of All Chief Petty Officers. No one can be more 'old Navy' than her: "You think things are bad now? HA! In my day, there were six USN frigates versus the entire Royal Navy! This is nothing! Now get back out there and kill some damned Abyssals, ya sniveling schoolgirls!"
 
Which as said, means that we're pretty limited to stuff like Warrior, Constitution, Olympia, and Mikasa for ships that could still come back. One of those is currently encased in concrete so I wouldn't expect Mikasa to pull a Texas anytime soon.

And would you want to take any of those into battle with Abyssals? Since this isn't a story where the relative spiritual weight of the ship makes them more powerful?
Olympia almost certainly sank at her moorings when New Jersey's magazine exploded right before Chapter One started. She's anchored about half a mile away, and her hull's pretty much rusted down to nothing, so I doubt she'd handle the shock wave of X hundred tons of TNT going off that close.

Without active, ongoing restoration work during the 2014-15 timeframe of the war, the hull would probably sink anyway. I was actually tempted to omake the aftermath recently.

Anyway, she's a protected cruiser with a top speed of 21 knots and a maximum range with 8" gunfire of... definitely less than eleven miles, because it'd be 11.3 miles if I took her muzzle velocity and maximum elevation of her turrets from Wikipedia (which has them from Navweaps), and completely ignored air resistance.

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Thank you for the clarification. Though I still wonder what's happened to the steel hull of U-505 in this story. I would imagine that the US would've dug it out of the underground room it's housed in at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago and probably outfit the sub with some modern tech.
That would be prohibitively difficult.

Which now makes me wonder just how many steel hull subs the US navy has left in this story.
The answer may well be "actually quite a lot." We'd have started the war with about 70-75 nuclear submarines. Even the ballistic missile submarines are torpedo-capable.

The Abyssals probably COULD hunt them down by committing ASW-specialist Abyssal destroyers and other, lighter ships... But then, doing so would probably be as hard or harder than hunting down the IJN subgirls, because the levelling effect would translate USN nuclear submarines as having evasive qualities anywhere from "good" to "excellent." And it doesn't seem like the Abyssals have been concentrating all that hard on ASW, as demonstrated by how well the Japanese lewdmarines have been able to perform as scouts.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the US submarine force is one of the main reasons the Abyssals haven't been able to overrun the Atlantic with surface vessels in the opening months of the war. The RN shipgirls are obviously a major factor there too, but it seems like they're kept fairly busy close to home. Though I may be mis-remembering some of Skywalker's Eurobotes content..

It would also explain why the Abyssals are concentrating submarines in the Atlantic. Because while in theory US submarines ought to be pretty good at hunting and killing other submarines, the levelling effect would tend to work against that because there was literally ONE sub-on-sub kill in the entire Second World War.
 
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Olympia almost certainly sank at her moorings when New Jersey's magazine exploded right before Chapter One started. She's anchored about half a mile away, and her hull's pretty much rusted down to nothing, so I doubt she'd handle the shock wave of X hundred tons of TNT going off that close.

Without active, ongoing restoration work during the 2014-15 timeframe of the war, the hull would probably sink anyway. I was actually tempted to omake the aftermath recently.

Anyway, she's a protected cruiser with a top speed of 21 knots and a maximum range with 8" gunfire of... definitely less than eleven miles, because it'd be 11.3 miles if I took her muzzle velocity and maximum elevation of her turrets from Wikipedia (which has them from Navweaps), and completely ignored air resistance.
actually depending on where she is in reagards to the torpedo impact point she could easily survive.If distance was the only factor there wouldn't have been enough left of Vestal to make a soup can after December7th given that she was mere feet from Ari when her magazine went up.
 
actually depending on where she is in reagards to the torpedo impact point she could easily survive.If distance was the only factor there wouldn't have been enough left of Vestal to make a soup can after December7th given that she was mere feet from Ari when her magazine went up.

Yes, but Vestal was in good structural condition. Olympia most definitely isn't. Olympia's hull has very nearly rusted through in places, IIRC.
 
Yes, but Vestal was in good structural condition. Olympia most definitely isn't. Olympia's hull has very nearly rusted through in places, IIRC.
There is a continuing debate about whether or not to just scrap her in place. The museum is having trouble meeting its operating costs trying to keep her afloat.
 
I still think you'd need more than just the shockwave to sink her at that distance, especially since Jersey's got her bow pointed at Olympia. Now sinking because of debris hit is a lot more credible.
 
It would also explain why the Abyssals are concentrating submarines in the Atlantic. Because while in theory US submarines ought to be pretty good at hunting and killing other submarines, the levelling effect would tend to work against that because there was literally ONE sub-on-sub kill in the entire Second World War.
There were quite a few sub-on-sub kills in WW2, with just about all sides scoring them. However, they were usually cases where a submerged sub came across a surfaced one and torpedoed it. There was one case of a submerged sub (British, IIRC) sinking another submerged sub, which is what I suspect you're thinking of, but don't shortchange the boats that managed to ambush other subs.
 
Most of which were US subs that caught IJN subs running their diesels on the surface.
 
I have to agree with @Icywinter and be blunt with you Abject: that is an incredibly unrealistic, dare I say stupid, idea. Don't get me wrong: I love U-505. I want to read kancolle fics with U-505. But I'm not going to try and shove her into a story where she doesn't belong.
U-505 is not seaworthy, nobody knows how to make her seaworthy, none of the modern submarine equipment in use by the US Navy would fit on the comparatively tiny Type IXC hull, and it'd be far easier to train crews for modern attack boats than a submarine not even the remaining WWII vets would know how to operate.

First off, I am not attempting to shove anyone into a story where they don't belong. I was merely asking questions and speculating on things. Secondly, in regards to what @Icywinter had said, there's no guarantee that the US even has any modern day attack subs left in this story. We know that the US Navy, as well as all of the worlds navies for that matter, had losses in the early part of the war before ship girls began appearing. What we do not know is exactly how many ships the US navy has lost to Abyssals thus far. We also don't know just how many ships were lost in the opening rounds of the war when humanity didn't even know about the existence of the Abyssals, let alone anything about them.

An earlier chapter in the story, The First Thirty-Six, which was a flashback had the US lose 4 supercarriers in three hours. Now as anyone here would know, US carriers are never by themselves. Thus this implies one of two things: A) the escorts of t hose supercarriers were either wiped out or reduced to the point where they could no longer protect said supercarriers; or B) The Abyssals managed to strike down the supercarriers despite their escorts. The same chapter also has Captain Goto noting that the Abyssal ships barely showed up on radar. Who is to say that the same wouldn't be true for sonar as well. Also in that chapter it was shown that Harpoon missiles and five-guns from Goto's guided missile destroyers didn't really do much of anything against the Abyssal pre-dreadnoughts. With that information in mind, one has to wonder just how long it took the US to figure out that modern naval warfare doctrinaire wasn't going to work against the Abyssals. How many US surface ships and subs do you think had the belief that they could spot anything with their radar/sonar systems long before it could threaten them? How many of those ships do you think were sunk because they held that belief? How long do you think it took the US to figure out that anything relying on modern day guidance systems are going to have a hard time hitting their target? We even see this much in the reworked version of Chapter 44: Splash One when the bunker busters were dropped on Northern Princess. Out of 24 bunker buster bombs which had both laser and GPS guidance systems, only one managed to hit the abyssal princess which was big enough to make battleships look like destroyers. At that point of time humans knew about 'abyssal spookiness' and yet the bombs still missed. Think what any ship back in the early part of the war would have fared.

In addition that, the same chapter also mentions that the China seas had seen the worst shipping losses in decades over the course of three months. Now while it's unknown for the moment if the same was true for everywhere else or not; but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that if the Abyssals weren't sinking a lot ships elsewhere at that time then they were making observations. It has been shown in the very few times in the story where we see things from the perspective of the Abyssals that they're not dumb. They're able to think on a tactical level. There is nothing thus far that shows that Abyssals are not capable of thinking on a strategic level. As such, in the unknown amount of time that passed before their existence became known to humanity, the Abyssals might have been making observations on the movements of naval ships. Even if the Abyssals weren't making observations, they would still have the advantage of virtually not showing up on radar and possibly sonar as well. The human ships on the other hand would likely show up clearly on the Abyssals radar/sonar. Even if many Abyssal ships don't have either sonar or radar systems, those that had either or both could easily direct the others. With these things considered, to becomes rather easy to see that there's a high chance that the US lost a lot of their attack subs, if not all of them. Since it takes a rather long time to build just one ship of any kind; the idea of reactivating old ships would become a lot more attractive, even if it only just so that you have something protecting the coasts while newer ships are being build.

Thirdly, it's possible to make an unseaworthy vessel seaworthy again. Your statement about nobody knowing how to make something like U-505 seaworthy again is false. As U-505 was captured and towed rather than sunk after being captured, the documents on board the submarine were thus available for study and translation. As the ship itself was studied by Navy intelligence and engineering officers in 1945, it reasonable to assume that any information needed to restore the submarine to working order exists. Also, you do not need anybody from the second world war to train a crew how to operate the submarine because the manuals which were on board U-505 are likely still around, either in their original or translated forms. Information about the interior components for the submarine would also likely still exist even today, not only in the US but in Germany as well. This stems from the fact the German manufacturers who had made U-505 interior components were able to supply them to the museum when they had requested them back in 1954. Considering the fact that the internet seems to be quite alive and well within this story, it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that any information which didn't have could be sent to them. You are correct that none of the modern day submarine equipment in use by the US Navy today would fit on U-505. But considering how well modern technology fairs against Abyssals, perhaps that would actually be an advantage. Besides, the key word I had used was the would probably out fit some modern tech, not definitely.

.
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That would be prohibitively difficult.

The answer may well be "actually quite a lot." We'd have started the war with about 70-75 nuclear submarines. Even the ballistic missile submarines are torpedo-capable.

The Abyssals probably COULD hunt them down by committing ASW-specialist Abyssal destroyers and other, lighter ships... But then, doing so would probably be as hard or harder than hunting down the IJN subgirls, because the levelling effect would translate USN nuclear submarines as having evasive qualities anywhere from "good" to "excellent." And it doesn't seem like the Abyssals have been concentrating all that hard on ASW, as demonstrated by how well the Japanese lewdmarines have been able to perform as scouts.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the US submarine force is one of the main reasons the Abyssals haven't been able to overrun the Atlantic with surface vessels in the opening months of the war. The RN shipgirls are obviously a major factor there too, but it seems like they're kept fairly busy close to home. Though I may be mis-remembering some of Skywalker's Eurobotes content..

It would also explain why the Abyssals are concentrating submarines in the Atlantic. Because while in theory US submarines ought to be pretty good at hunting and killing other submarines, the levelling effect would tend to work against that because there was literally ONE sub-on-sub kill in the entire Second World War.

It may very well be the case. The leveling effect could also explain why lewdmarines are able to act as scouts. Not to say that a regular sub couldn't do so as well, but it might be more difficult for them. Though it's still unclear just how much of the US submarine force is left by this point in the story. It doesn't help, as I've mentioned earlier, that modern day guidance systems don't really work all that well on Abyssals considering that the torpedoes used by the Navy today all have some form of passive/active guidance system. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that some subs were lost before that was realized. But so far we only know for certain that laser and GPS guidance systems don't really work on Abyssals as well as not really showing up on radar. Though what I find interesting is that in the chapter "Because that's totally logical..." that Mo's UAV gave every other ship in the fleet washed-out garbage but gave her a clear image..

And speaking of the Mighty Mo, we really haven't seen her since the last time she appeared and I honestly would love to see more of her.
 
Thirdly, it's possible to make an unseaworthy vessel seaworthy again. Your statement about nobody knowing how to make something like U-505 seaworthy again is false. As U-505 was captured and towed rather than sunk after being captured, the documents on board the submarine were thus available for study and translation. As the ship itself was studied by Navy intelligence and engineering officers in 1945, it reasonable to assume that any information needed to restore the submarine to working order exists. Also, you do not need anybody from the second world war to train a crew how to operate the submarine because the manuals which were on board U-505 are likely still around, either in their original or translated forms. Information about the interior components for the submarine would also likely still exist even today, not only in the US but in Germany as well. This stems from the fact the German manufacturers who had made U-505 interior components were able to supply them to the museum when they had requested them back in 1954. Considering the fact that the internet seems to be quite alive and well within this story, it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that any information which didn't have could be sent to them. You are correct that none of the modern day submarine equipment in use by the US Navy today would fit on U-505. But considering how well modern technology fairs against Abyssals, perhaps that would actually be an advantage. Besides, the key word I had used was the would probably out fit some modern tech, not definitely.
That and the fact that it is effectively sealed in a concrete bunker, and the reason it was placed there was that after sitting exposed to the elements for 50 odd years, it was close to being a writeoff.
 
U-505 is not, in any way, seaworthy any more, and cannot be made seaworthy again. The holes cut in the side of her ballast tanks and pressure hull to provide access for museum visitors are enough to have rendered her structurally unsound to submerge again. (The same is true of at least some of the preserved US WW2 submarines; the lucky ones merely had large access holes cut into their torpedo loading hatches, which can be replaced, and the Cod in Cleveland has never had any access portals cut, but many have had the access holes cut into the pressure hull itself, which is something that can't really be repaired, at least not effectively.)
 
It may very well be the case. The leveling effect could also explain why lewdmarines are able to act as scouts.
The levelling effect doesn't turn WWII IJN sub-girls into something better than WWII IJN submarines were during World War Two.

Though it's still unclear just how much of the US submarine force is left by this point in the story. It doesn't help, as I've mentioned earlier, that modern day guidance systems don't really work all that well on Abyssals considering that the torpedoes used by the Navy today all have some form of passive/active guidance system. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that some subs were lost before that was realized.
USN submarines would be firing from very long ranges. Just because the torpedoes would reliably miss their targets almost all the damn time doesn't mean that the submarines that fired them would be endangered. Remember that submarines don't typically fire torpedoes in self-defense against surface ships; they fire torpedoes from ambush against surface ships they're trying to kill.

What would matter here is the Abyssals' ASW capabilities versus the US submarines' evasion. US submarines are, by global standards, quite sneaky, especially since they don't need to surface. If the Abyssals take the trouble to organize good ASW task forces that can chase after them, they'd have a good chance (just as they would of sinking, say, midwar German U-boat shipgirls). But the US submarines should be about as good at not dying as, oh, Albie. Even if they aren't actually hitting anything very often.

Yes, but Vestal was in good structural condition. Olympia most definitely isn't. Olympia's hull has very nearly rusted through in places, IIRC.
Yeah. Basically, once the hull starts seriously leaking or if anything gets blown open, there's no way to stop it, and everything's so old and rusted that leaks and cracks are liable to spread. And it's not like an 1895-vintage cruiser has anything remotely resembling torpedo defense or underwater protection.

I still think you'd need more than just the shockwave to sink her at that distance, especially since Jersey's got her bow pointed at Olympia. Now sinking because of debris hit is a lot more credible.
Granted. I honestly wouldn't be surprised by shockwave sinking her, but I could be pessimistic. Debris would be a problem, although she actually has an armor deck, which might help against plummeting chunks of battleship. Indeed, the armor deck is pretty much the only protection Olympia has; protected cruisers were fairly distinctive in having a deck but no belt.

And not a lot smaller, either.

There were quite a few sub-on-sub kills in WW2, with just about all sides scoring them. However, they were usually cases where a submerged sub came across a surfaced one and torpedoed it. There was one case of a submerged sub (British, IIRC) sinking another submerged sub, which is what I suspect you're thinking of, but don't shortchange the boats that managed to ambush other subs.
Yes, I was thinking of Venturer's kill (she's like, the patron momboat-saint of attack submarines). I honestly wasn't aware of the submerged submarines sinking surfaced ones, though now that I think about it it's hardly a surprise.

That said, US nuclear submarines would basically never surface, so it's kind of moot. They would have incredibly difficult times trying to kill any Abyssal submarines, but the reverse is probably just as true.
 
U-505 is not, in any way, seaworthy any more, and cannot be made seaworthy again. The holes cut in the side of her ballast tanks and pressure hull to provide access for museum visitors are enough to have rendered her structurally unsound to submerge again. (The same is true of at least some of the preserved US WW2 submarines; the lucky ones merely had large access holes cut into their torpedo loading hatches, which can be replaced, and the Cod in Cleveland has never had any access portals cut, but many have had the access holes cut into the pressure hull itself, which is something that can't really be repaired, at least not effectively.)
Ah, this I was not aware of. Thank you for clarifying that. Though that makes me wonder if the ones which only had holes cut into their torpedo loading hatches were reactivated or not.
 
it was close to being a writeoff.
It is a writeoff. When it was designated a museum ship, almost every removable part had been stripped from the inside. Then, in 2004, sever weather damage forced her to be ensconced in concrete.
U-505 is not, in any way, seaworthy any more, and cannot be made seaworthy again. The holes cut in the side of her ballast tanks and pressure hull to provide access for museum visitors are enough to have rendered her structurally unsound to submerge again. (The same is true of at least some of the preserved US WW2 submarines; the lucky ones merely had large access holes cut into their torpedo loading hatches, which can be replaced, and the Cod in Cleveland has never had any access portals cut, but many have had the access holes cut into the pressure hull itself, which is something that can't really be repaired, at least not effectively.)
And this.

Thirdly, it's possible to make an unseaworthy vessel seaworthy again. Your statement about nobody knowing how to make something like U-505 seaworthy again is false. As U-505 was captured and towed rather than sunk after being captured, the documents on board the submarine were thus available for study and translation. As the ship itself was studied by Navy intelligence and engineering officers in 1945, it reasonable to assume that any information needed to restore the submarine to working order exists. Also, you do not need anybody from the second world war to train a crew how to operate the submarine because the manuals which were on board U-505 are likely still around, either in their original or translated forms. Information about the interior components for the submarine would also likely still exist even today, not only in the US but in Germany as well. This stems from the fact the German manufacturers who had made U-505 interior components were able to supply them to the museum when they had requested them back in 1954. Considering the fact that the internet seems to be quite alive and well within this story, it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that any information which didn't have could be sent to them. You are correct that none of the modern day submarine equipment in use by the US Navy today would fit on U-505. But considering how well modern technology fairs against Abyssals, perhaps that would actually be an advantage. Besides, the key word I had used was the would probably out fit some modern tech, not definitely.
But why, though? Why go to all the trouble of training a crew to use a sub that's almost a century out of date?
 
Again, almost certainly not. Reactivating museum ships is not normally a good idea in this war.

The Iowas are an exception, but that's more because there is no such thing as a 'modern' (i.e. recently built) steel-hulled battleship.

TheJMPer has, by the way, explained this. Several times.
 
I live in prepared-to-voimit fear of the day some shithead suggests the USS Donald Trump. :sour:

On the other hand, we're nearly at the end of the age of capital ships, so ships named for presidents are going to probably be less and less likely going forward.

USN already has to forbid asymmetric warfare tactics in wargames to keep from losing carriers.
 
On the other hand, we're nearly at the end of the age of capital ships, so ships named for presidents are going to probably be less and less likely going forward.

USN already has to forbid asymmetric warfare tactics in wargames to keep from losing carriers.
Which is also the main reason why the doctrines are changing, and why the Navy keeps ordering Burkes.
 
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