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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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Richardson said:
It's a lot higher than that as far as I'm aware.
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Supposedly a Seawolf underway is quieter than an LA at pier.

PAGDTenno said:
I used the public domain numbers.

Also? 35 knots is fucking fast. That said, the Virginia-class may be capable of 40 at flank (supposedly, they've been observed going that fast), but all the Navy will say is that they're capable of over 30 knots.
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I'm given to understand that the Virginias are probably slower than a Seawolf, possibly faster than an LA, and mich quieter than the LAs.
 
Whiskey Golf said:
Supposedly a Seawolf underway is quieter than an LA at pier.

I'm given to understand that the Virginias are probably slower than a Seawolf, possibly faster than an LA, and mich quieter than the LAs.
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Yeah, there's a reason I said supposedly. Personally, I'd be surprised if the Virginias are slower than the LAs , given they've got 5,000 hp on them and pretty much the same proportions (+1 foot of beam, +15 feet of length).
 
Being able to hit a max speed and hitting a max speed are two different things. As I've mentioned before, you have to consider fuel when changing cruising speeds. While CVNs don't really have to worry to much about that, their escorts do. The higher you push a destroyer or cruiser, the more fuel they burn.

At close to max speed, the fuel intake rate is ridiculous. Remember, a Burke class destroyer essentially has 4 747 turbines in its gut. By pushing your fleet to its maximum speed, you're running the risk that you'll strand your fleet with too little gas to get home. And it puts a hamper on already expensive exercises.
 
Folks, when it comes to claims of massive top speeds for any warship, particularly ones that are that much higher than the officially-announced numbers, just remember one thing.

The difference between a fairy tale and a sea story is that the fairy tale starts "Once upon a time..." and the sea story starts "No shit...".

(It's even more clear if you know anything about naval architecture and realize how much of a "brick wall" of drag you hit above about 20 knots...)
 
Yeah.

I know that modern submarines are faster underwater than on the surface, which is wacky enough. But that really doesn't translate into being able to go faster underwater than a surface ship can go short of hydroplaning.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I've long been a bit skeptical of that, because I've heard similar claims about aircraft carriers, and there are reasons to doubt those claims.
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IIRC, the original source of the "40+ knots" stories was a deliberate over-design-max speed run by Entreprise to determine the flank of the new Soviet Victors.

One overpowered CVN, one tailing Russkie spy sub, and orders to flog the turbines just short of implosion...
It's plausible.
 
LudicrousSpeedGo, did you actually read the link in the post you quoted?

We know the rated shaft horsepower of Enterprise's propulsion systems. Using nuclear reactors to generate the steam that powers the ship's turbines, instead of using oil-fired boilers, isn't going to change the ship's top speed. Because it's still the same amount of horsepower.

To get a faster ship, you need more horsepower, or a better hullform. CVNs don't have significantly better hullforms than, say, the Iowas. And they don't have vastly more horsepower. So there's no plausible way for them to be much faster at top speed than high-end World War Two ships.

Just getting the steam for your turbines from nuclear reactors doesn't automatically turn Enterprise into Maury.

Now, another essay on Navweaps provides a possible explanation for some of the "no shit" stories about the nuclear carriers being greatly faster than conventional-fueled ships. Because they use nuclear power, the CVNs can go to "full steam ahead" much faster than a conventional ship, which has to carefully nurse its boilers up to full activity. Therefore, if everyone's just cruising along slowly, and suddenly there's an order to go to maximum speed, the CVN can go from a leisurely 15 knots up to, say, 30 knots almost immediately. The escorts take longer. Therefore, the CVN gains distance on the escorts, which find themselves chasing the CVN. But since the CVN and the escorts have equal top speeds, give or take, the escorts are then unable to catch up to the CVN unless the CVN reduces speed.

Now, hand that over to sailors. Pick the dumbest sailor on the boat, the one who doesn't know the difference between "speed" and "acceleration." From their point of view "Wow, the carrier just outran us BAM like that! We didn't even catch up until the carrier slowed back down! And our ship makes 33 knots! The carrier must have been going FORTY-three knots or something!"

When in fact, when the CVN passed the destroyer, it was going thirty knots to the destroyer's twenty... but the destroyer needed ten minutes to get from 20 to 30 knots, by which time the carrier had gained considerable distance outrunning the escort.
 
A racing trimaran isn't exactly in the same league as a supercarrier, though. ;)

Also, it's worth noting that the ship you cite (along with other hellafast oceangoing vessels like hydroplanes and hydrofoils) operate on the principle of minimizing contact with the water as far as possible. Water is a much less forgiving medium for high speed travel than air is. An engine that would propel a two-ton car at seventy miles an hour wouldn't provide nearly as much speed when propelling a two-ton boat, for instance.
 
In other news...

Is it time for cutes?



Trick question, because...

...it's always time for cutes
 
Simon_Jester said:
LudicrousSpeedGo, did you actually read the link in the post you quoted?

We know the rated shaft horsepower of Enterprise's propulsion systems. Using nuclear reactors to generate the steam that powers the ship's turbines, instead of using oil-fired boilers, isn't going to change the ship's top speed. Because it's still the same amount of horsepower.

To get a faster ship, you need more horsepower, or a better hullform.
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I read the link. Do you know the difference between rated horsepower and deliberating over-revving the turbines?

Enterprise, with the Kittyhawk's 33.6 kt hull form, could very well have made 40 kts... once, when the brass were willing to trash the machinery just before an availability so they could get strategically important info on an adversary's capabilities.
 
LudicrousSpeedGo said:
I read the link. Do you know the difference between rated horsepower and deliberating over-revving the turbines?

Enterprise, with the Kittyhawk's 33.6 kt hull form, could very well have made 40 kts... once, when the brass were willing to trash the machinery just before an availability so they could get strategically important info on an adversary's capabilities.
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Nuclear reactors aren't like oil-fired boilers. You can't just turn up the pressure.

Or, to put it another way, it doesn't matter what the turbines can take, because the ship's listed flank is her boilers giving it all they have.
 
PAGDTenno said:
Nuclear reactors aren't like oil-fired boilers. You can't just turn up the pressure.

Or, to put it another way, it doesn't matter what the turbines can take, because the ship's listed flank is her boilers giving it all they have.
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Imma assume that was a brain fart, cause suggesting that Ms "Eight Reactors, None Faster" lacks steam power when she had to rotate reactors, is... strange.

Edit2: Her turbines are rated for a total of 280,000hp (210MW). She had 8 x 150MW reactors. Even with mechanical losses and hotel load, there's plenty of steam left to turn her reduction gear into twisted scrap.

Edit1: per cno, she went over 40mph on sea trials. http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/enterprise/Documents/Enterprise/1959-63.pdf
 
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LudicrousSpeedGo said:
Imma assume that was a brain fart, cause suggesting that Ms "Eight Reactors, None Faster" lacks steam power when it had to rotate reactors, is... strange.

Edit: per cno, she went over 40mph on sea trials. http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/enterprise/Documents/Enterprise/1959-63.pdf
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40 mph = 34.75 knots.
40 knots = 46.03 mph

Also, yes, she had eight reactors. Eight A2W reactors, which, as nuclear reactors go, are kinda wimpy. And, like I said, unlike oil-fired boilers where exceeding maximum pressure (which is how you get more power out of a boiler) is a matter of disabling safeties, trying that with a nuclear reactor is a good way to get a meltdown, or for the ship's automatic safeties to SCRAM the reactor on you.


For comparison, the two A4W reactors the Nimitz-class uses each put out as much power as four A2W reactors.
 
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PAGDTenno said:
trying that with a nuclear reactor is a good way to get a meltdown, or for the ship's automatic safeties to SCRAM the reactor on you.
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@LudicrousSpeedGo To use an example, the only example I can think of at the moment, in Tom Clancy's Magnum Opus, Hunt for the Red October, an Alfa that was involved in the chase was running at such high pressure that a cascade meltdown China Syndrome'd the sub, killing all onboard.
 
Burning Baron said:
@LudicrousSpeedGo To use an example, the only example I can think of at the moment, in Tom Clancy's Magnum Opus, Hunt for the Red October, an Alfa that was involved in the chase was running at such high pressure that a cascade meltdown China Syndrome'd the sub, killing all onboard.
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Not the best example. In the book, the Alfa uses a PWR reactor, not the liquid-metal cooled reactor it actually uses.
 
theJMPer said:
Not the best example. In the book, the Alfa uses a PWR reactor, not the liquid-metal cooled reactor it actually uses.
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Totally unrelated, because I know Big E isn't showing back up, but if the Abyssal War had started when CVN-65 was in service, would her radar work properly against Abyssals because her spirit is connected to Big E's?

Just wondering if I have the whole "girl on some level" thing figured out for purposes of Abyssal Spooky Bullshit.

NOTE: Edited to clarify. I originally stated that 6 and 65 shared a spirit, which is quite obviously wrong. I meant to say that they had access to the same power, or that 6 could "lend a hand" to 65, so to speak.
 
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PAGDTenno said:
Totally unrelated, because I know Big E isn't showing back up, but if the Abyssal War had started when CVN-65 was in service, would her radar work properly against Abyssals because she has the same "spirit" as CV-6?
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Arguably yes. CV-6 isn't the same ship at CVN-65, but the mementos Nuke-E carries from her namesake--combined with her unsummoned magic--would make her systems work slightly less poorly.
 
Found something I think you guys might like; it's called "The Old Snipe":

I cannot say how many times I've been down this ladder, but certainly a good many. Here is where I worked while still a teenager. As I stand here now, elderly to those visitors around me, I am once again young and responding to another call for the midwatch. The ship is fiercely hot and we are in the tropics--in the long roll of the Pacific.

I know when I her down this ladder it will be 120 degrees where I work. Another cigarette and a strong cup of black coffee will get me awake enough to read the gauges. The bucket of mugs is right behind me where they always soak twenty-four hours a day and I turn to take one.

They are gone.

My shipmates aren't here.

I'm old again
and my knees hurt.

Ted deLesdernier
USS Massachusetts BB-59
USS Alabama BB-60
 
PAGDTenno said:
Totally unrelated, because I know Big E isn't showing back up, but if the Abyssal War had started when CVN-65 was in service, would her radar work properly against Abyssals because she has the same "spirit" as CV-6?

Just wondering if I have the whole "girl on some level" thing figured out for purposes of Abyssal Spooky Bullshit.
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This is one of my hated peeves in this fandom. I hate this nonsense wherever it appeara, especially in GG, where people were enthusiastically and gleefully writing omakes about zombie bodie surfing enterprise, eater of the souls of all ships named enterprise.

Nuke E's artifacts from Big E amount to a buncha portholes and minor shit. That's nowhere near enough for some spirit hijacking. And honestly the spirit hijacking annoys me. She's her mother's daughter. Wearing a bun cha earrings doesnt make her the same person.

It's like the Dresden Files. In every single book, Harry Dresden mentions his mother's pentacle amulet and uses it in some way. The amulet doesn't mean he's possessed by Margaret le Fay. He's still Harry Dresden.

But it doesn't mean that amulet doesn't have meaning or significance for him,
 
theJMPer said:
Arguably yes. CV-6 isn't the same ship at CVN-65, but the mementos Nuke-E carries from her namesake--combined with her unsummoned magic--would make her systems work slightly less poorly.
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Damnit man. Now I'm considering writing a Nuke E omake to show them youngins (TM) how its done. :p :V

I have too much stuff pending.
 
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