How is this different from putting nuclear missiles on the craft* itself, to be launched as the craft* approaches the target? Maybe it's your sentence structure confusing me, but I'm not seeing it.
So the craft would already need engines, in the sense of "some propulsion system that can finish the job of boosting you from a suborbital path to an orbital path."
You'd really need to attach the craft* to some kind of disposable sled has a part between the rails to be accelerated, or something like that. And you can't actually put things in a stable orbit just by firing them out of a cannon anyway. So the craft would already need engines, in the sense of "some propulsion system that can finish the job of boosting you from a suborbital path to an orbital path."
The sled attachment is an idea, also we can overshot the orbit it gonna be easier for craft with complete 3 axis movement (x,y,z) to re orbit itself back to Earth then fighting gravity upward for orbit. No gravity and air resistance to counter propulsion, plus no speed lose if no thrust while in space.
So yeah we just need propulsion that can move us in both condition, don't need to be strong enough for us to break in to orbit though. Railgun launcher do heavy lifting
Plus by the time the craft de orbit in to outer space their momemtum will be slow enough from Earth gravity to be able to move under its own thrust.
Why would the extra nuke cost space (or, more relevantly, mass budget) when it is attached to the spacecraft, but NOT when launched along with the spacecraft for the ride? Either way, you are launching one nuclear warhead into space, bolted to the spacecraft, to be released/launched when it gets out of the atmosphere.
Okay, as long as you're not picturing something that can do fighter jet maneuvers in the atmosphere, because that's a very bad idea for a system like this.
Why would the extra nuke cost space (or, more relevantly, mass budget) when it is attached to the spacecraft, but NOT when launched along with the spacecraft for the ride? Either way, you are launching one nuclear warhead into space, bolted to the spacecraft, to be released/launched when it gets out of the atmosphere.
What do you mean by "overshot the orbit," precisely?
...it gonna be easier for craft with complete 3 axis movement (x,y,z) to re orbit itself back to Earth then fighting gravity upward for orbit. No gravity and air resistance to counter propulsion, plus no speed lose if no thrust while in space.
So yeah we just need propulsion that can move us in both condition, don't need to be strong enough for us to break in to orbit though. Railgun launcher do heavy lifting
Plus by the time the craft de orbit in to outer space their momemtum will be slow enough from Earth gravity to be able to move under its own thrust.
I sincerely do not understand whether you are picturing something like real world orbital mechanics being relevant here, or whether you expect this to work more like in 'Star Wars' where planes inexplicably move around in outer space like they were WWII fighter aircraft.
Think carefully about this one. Why would it be 'free' to launch a nuke that is bolted to the booster rocket, but not 'free' to launch literally the same nuke that is bolted to the actual aerospace fighter craft?
Think carefully about this one. Why would it be 'free' to launch a nuke that is bolted to the booster rocket, but not 'free' to launch literally the same nuke that is bolted to the actual aerospace fighter craft?
sincerely do not understand whether you are picturing something like real world orbital mechanics being relevant here, or whether you expect this to work more like in 'Star Wars' where planes inexplicably move around in outer space like they were WWII fighter aircraft.
Sorry weird orbital mechanic from certain game rot my brain. (Space engineer, planet gravity only exist up to certain range then deep drop to near 0)
What I mean is we can slingshot Spacecraft to escape Earth atmosphere for easier time to adjust propulsion to enter stable orbit. And by overshot I mean we enter larger orbit that we can thrust vector in to make our orbit smaller.
Also this is the main reason why we launch it up high in the first place, so that we don't need large rocket engine strap on to the back of spacecraft.
The booster rocket will not be released until it is done boosting the payload (in this case, the entire mass of the spacecraft). A missile attached to the booster rocket will, at the time the craft releases the boosters, have exactly the same speed and trajectory as the craft itself. It will not be able to "zoom ahead" somehow, because the booster rocket will be close to burning out, unless the booster rocket was stupidly over-engineered for no reason.
The missile will 'slow down' the booster stage by just exactly as much if it is bolted to the boosters themselves as if it was attached to the craft. The only way you would get any benefit is if the craft is volume limited, which it is not. The limit is going to be mass; if we could make the craft heavier we could make it bigger and put more munitions aboard. This would be true even if this weren't an Ace Combat game where ignoring how many weapons can physically fit on a plane is so routine that nobody even bothers to joke about it anymore.
Yeah, that's not how things are going to work for us.
What I mean is we can slingshot Spacecraft to escape Earth atmosphere for easier time to adjust propulsion to enter stable orbit. And by overshot I mean we enter larger orbit that we can thrust vector in to make our orbit smaller.
"Slingshot" has a very specific meaning in orbital mechanics and I don't recommend using the term here, as it would not be accurate.
Look, the idea of using a mass driver (or laser launch system, which we will probably have more expertise with) to replace the first stage or solid boosters of a rocket, to loft the payload up high onto a suborbital path so it can use other engines to enter orbit, is valid. But that's pretty much the default idea for ANY large fixed launch system (like a mass driver or laser launch system or whatever else, you can look these ideas up).
Also this is the main reason why we launch it up high in the first place, so that we don't need large rocket engine strap on to the back of spacecraft.
We will still need rocket propulsion for the craft. The question is how big. The requirements are much smaller if we can use laser launch or mass drivers to get things partway to orbit. This is especially important for us because we are relatively short on rocket science expertise.
We will still need rocket propulsion for the craft. The question is how big. The requirements are much smaller if we can use laser launch or mass drivers to get things partway to orbit. This is especially important for us because we are relatively short on rocket science expertise.
He specified not needing large engines. So we could use smaller ones. Thus reducing the size and mass of the craft and freeing up space and weight for other components.
"When history witnesses a great change, Excalibur reveals itself. First, as a dark demon. As a demon, it uses its power to rain death upon the land, and then it dies. However, after a period of slumber, Excalibur returns, this time as a great hero."
"The Technical Board, having found Dr. von Killinger's proposal to be improperly scoped and containing technologically impractical references to 'force fields of pure energy,' had him taken out into the parking lot and beaten with wiffle bats. After his recovery, he returned with this somewhat more feasible proposal."
Name: Joyeuse (primary weapon system); Holy Lance (supporting technology, optional); the Paladins (secondary orbital support platforms, important); Erebus (laser launch system for satellite launches, strongly recommended)
Concept: Excalibur, but better, with slightly more than aesthetic changes, and more focus on the system of reflector satellites mentioned in lore. The satellites allow Joyeuse to fire "bank shots" to increase maximum potential firing range and engage asteroid fragments that are over the horizon from Joyeuse's perspective, or that would require impractically long paths through the atmosphere to engage..
The core of GDI's plan to protect the primary countries is clearly derivative of the Belkan 'Excalibur' ballistic missile defense system, with some refinements.
Joyeuse ('Joyous') itself is a massive chemical laser tower similar to the Excalibur design. Built to the same general scale as the thousand-meter Excalibur tower, Joyeuse integrates improved cooling systems, better beamline component redundancy than the original, and a secondary firing mode based on the exotic 'Holy Lance' pulse-laser system designed by Kane's engineers but rejected for installation by the Belkan government.
With the Holy Lance switched into the optical beamline, Joyeuse's beam would still appear continuous to the naked eye (given sufficient anti-blinding and anti-flash protection), but actually consists of long pulse trains of "chirped" millisecond-range laser pulses, yielding instantaneous power output in the terawatt range. This allows the multi-gigawatt beam to act less like a heating implement, and more like a stream of hundreds of battleship-caliber explosive shells striking the target per second. This is hoped to give Joyeuse optimal shattering power against the relatively frangible material of Ulysses. Much if not all of the asteroid is believed to be composed of frangible compacted rubble, explaining the expectation that it will fragment easily after passing the Roche limit. However, the Holy Lance can only be engaged in direct-fire mode, as the Paladin reflector satellites are not expected to be capable of withstanding the 'chirped' mode. Therefore, "bank shots" taken off the satellites will have to use the continuous-beam mode already familiar for those aware of Excalibur's performance during the Belkan War.
Joyeuse is intended to be supported by the Paladin satellite constellation. Numerous satellites will be launched into mid-altitude polar orbits, roughly 2000 km up, to ensure that there are always multiple satellites visible from Joyeuse's location at high latitude in the southern hemisphere. As these satellites will pass through the Van Allen belts continuously, despite significant radiation shielding, their service half-life is expected to be no more than 5-10 years. This will suffice to deal with Ulysses, but afterwards the satellites will need constant replenishment of their numbers, or replacement with a radically redesigned variant, to function satisfactorily.
As no current or likely GDI member state has extensive space launch infrastructure, the Paladin satellites will need to be launched into orbit by heavy-lift rockets of types only the major superpowers control, or GDI will need to develop its own space launch infrastructure. To make the task more feasible, Dr. von Killinger has dusted off preliminary studies for a laser launch system contemplated by the Brotherhood while still working with the Belkan government in the mid-1980s. Renaming the system 'Erebus' after the famous Antarctic volcano, Dr. von Killinger recommends that this system could be used to make it relatively easy to put the Paladins, and any other polar-orbiting or high-eccentricity satellites, into orbit by effectively replacing the lower stages of conventional rockets. The satellites would still need vacuum-optimized upper stage chemical rockets for final orbital insertion, but with laser launch, enormous costs in booster construction and transportation could be saved.
Dr. von Killinger notes that the same technology used in the 'Holy Lance' pulse laser apparatus would also be useful for the laser launch system, if an ablative propulsion concept is used rather than the alternative 'laser thermal rocket' concept.
Equipped as giant low-mass parabolic reflectors, the Paladin satellites can redirect and refocus the simpler continuous-wave Joyeuse beam to enable "bank-shot" firing modes. This provides more flexible options for engaging targets at orbit altitude. Theoretically the beam could be redirected against air and ground targets, as was done a number of times by the Belkans during the Belkan War, but this would be ineffective at striking targets more than at most 1000-2000 km from the Joyeuse tower proper. Joyeuse, as designed, would be unlikely to be considered a threat by the major superpowers, much as Excalibur was incapable of threatening, say, Erusea or Yuktobania.
Between direct-fire engagement of asteroids in orbital space as they pass over the relevant parts of the southern hemisphere, and "bank-shots" that may be less effective but can be delivered at other firing angles, it is hoped that Joyeuse can significantly mitigate the risk of tsunami-causing strikes threatening the GDI member states, and largely eliminate the risk of direct impacts (already expected to be low).
Scope: Huge (~7500 points). Joyeuse alone would be Moderate, capable of covering much of Chaldea, the Celestial Dominion, and Aurelia peninsula and disrupting most asteroid impacts against the land or parts of the ocean near the coast, mitigating the worst of the damage. Particularly when supported by the 'Paladins' satellite constellation, Joyeuse would be more flexible about engaging asteroids in other orbits, though with reduced shattering/disruptive effect as compared to the direct fire mode, and a reasonable degree of coverage against direct strikes could be extended to Leasath and potentially the Antarctic polities on the opposite side of the continent.
Approach: Fragment destruction. Fragments in much of the southern hemisphere sky can be targeted with (relatively) moderate-intensity "bank-shot" beams and hopefully shattered by differential heating and ablative propulsion forces. An asteroid fragment on direct approach within Joyeuse's direct line of sight may be hit with the 'Holy Lance' chirped pulse mode, which if successful would hit it with hundreds of multi-megajoule laser pulses per second, striking like a blizzard of battleship-caliber exploding shells and smashing the thing into bitty little pieces. Hopefully.
Mobility: The kilometer-ish-high laser tower is, of course, not mobile unless something has gone very wrong, in which case its mobility can probably be described as 'downward' (CURSE YOU, DEMON LORD!). The orbiting mirror satellites are mobile by definition, though their orbits are predictable unless someone commands them to fire up the thrusters and do a maneuver.
Location: the highest feasibly available and quasi-accessible non-sacred mountaintop on the North Island in the contested islands. 70 degrees South latitude, 162 degrees East latitude, assuming the '180' meridian on the map is the international date line in the system being used here. Hope I got the latitude and longitude right; the idea is that this is built on a mountain in the equivalent of the North Island Volcanic Plateau. The mountain is possibly a volcano, and probably extinct, but making our superweapon technically a volcano base is just the cherry on top.
Requirements:
1) Build the Joyeuse laser tower.
2) Optional: Enhance the Joyeuse laser tower with the 'Holy Lance' pulse laser system; tower should be designed to be viable without the Holy Lance.
3) Strongly Recommended: Launch the 'Paladin' laser reflector satellites to extend the effective range and firing angles of Joyeuse against asteroid fragments in planetary orbit.
4) Strongly Recommended, pursuant to (3): Construct the 'Erebus' laser launch facility to enable reasonably cost-effective launch of the Paladin satellites, as this would otherwise require us to outsource the launch to a foreign nation with substantial heavy-lift rockets. 'Holy Lance' tech will definitely help with the Erebus launch facility.
Mandates:
1) Extend Ulysses Mitigation. Given the need to cover both Chaldea and the Celestial Dominion, the desirability of covering western Antarctica (the part south of Usea) as well, and the basic concept of Joyeuse, it is if anything easier to extend coverage over Aurelia and Leasath than to not do so.
2) Establish World-Class Research Institutions. This system explores multiple ambitious space launch and exotic physics technologies, pushing the boundaries of what humanity believed to be possible even now, in the closing years of the twentieth century.
3) Expand GDI: We can almost certainly get Aurelia on-side, given the defensive laser coverage of much of their country. Leasath and the nations of East Antarctica (the Antarctic Republic and Nouvelle Erusea) can hopefully be persuaded to contribute resources to help ensure the Twelve Paladins actually launch, because we will need the laser reflector satellites just humble targeting support platforms to ensure coverage of their homelands.
Intent:WITH THE AID OF MY somewhat less ambitious SECRET WEAPON, defend Antarctica with the VASTLY SUPERIOR design that should totally have been used for Excalibur if the Belkans who drove us out in '91 weren't HIDEBOUND REACTIONARY IDIOTS!. This will purely coincidentally give us a giant regional doom laser system, with potential for an ambitious semi-related satellite technology we would TOTALLY need to launch anyway in 5-10 years' time to upgrade the system into an orbital doom laser with hemispheric if not global coverage, which it would then of course be wildly irresponsible to fire at the ground. NO LONGER WILL THE WORLD BE DOMINATED BY THE LEGACY OF THESE FOOLS!
Concept: Trio of fragment interceptor planes powered by nuclear hybrid ramjets operating in the upper atmosphere and just beyond through the capability for short sub-orbital "hops" if nessecary. Constructing three separate airframes should reduce the requirements and stress placed on each individual system, as a proper shift schedule can allow for one to be ready on the runway or in the air at all times during the two week window while the others are undergoing a quick maintenance check in between flights, and can also still provide notable (if porpotionallly reduced) capability if only one or two are completed in time. Primary fragment destruction munitions are very high yield conventional missiles acting similarly to bunker buster weapons, designed to impact and penetrate into the fragments at high speed before detonating. Thus reducing the fragment into small chunks and gravel that will either burn up completely throughout any remaining reentry or be slowed down enough to have negligible effect on impact. Auxiliary backup fragment destruction weaponry in case of incomplete destruction or exhausting onboard missiles is a high strength fixed laser system powered by drawing energy from the nuclear powerplants.
Scope: Huge Approach: Fragment Destruction Mobility: Mobile (Twin thrust-vectoring nuclear ramjets, plus some amount of methane reaction mass to be used instead for operation below minimum velocity and above the atmosphere) Location: Airfield and final assembly at 66 degrees South 164 degrees West.
Intent: Exactly as it says, to defend those under our wings from the threat of Ulysses. If that also means that constructing a system capable of later rapid, difficult to intercept, and highly effective first strikes against other Ulysses mitigation megastructures before the technologies of peace can once again be misused, well, what of it?
Mandates:
Not sure yet about the last two of these, but I think I've settled on the first two.
-(Antarc)Extend Ulysses mitigation efforts to Aurelia
-(Joint)Expand GDI
-(?)(Chaldea)Establish world-class research institutions
-(?)(Joint)Secure international trade
Tossing my hat in the ring for another variant on the "superplane vs asteroid fragments" idea. Just because that sounds cool and like something that would exist in Ace Combat.
The major difference in my version is making it three different planes rather than just one super plane. In universe, the rationale for that is to reduce the demands placed on any one particular aircraft by giving notable time to rest, repair, refuel, and rearm compared to just one plane needing to defend the entire area by itself for the full two weeks straight, as well as still being able to provide some asteroid mitigation technology even if only one or two are completed instead of having a single unusable plane that can't pull off any intercepts.
Out of universe, it also plays to the rule of three as bosses the AC protagonist may face over the course of the game. As for what kind use I'm imagining it will get as a superweapon in the hands of Kane, I'm thinking a superweapon to first strike and destroy everyone else's with the super bunker buster missiles being used to great effect against the Stonehenges or Excalibers or whatever else of the rest of the world either by striking them directly or attacking the foundations and ground they're sitting on to collapse them. Also probably pretty good against fortresses and undergrounds bases.
The QM said we can still submit some more propositions. I think we're just in the middle of one long brainstorm session to toss together ideas and tweak them depending on feedback.
In that case the Arkbird idea, could be done because it has happened in the AC series. However as it was point out, unless if is not done than the incomplete infrastructure would be useless(from my understanding). So how to amend this problem, I will think of something shortly but any ideas from you guys would be appreciated
In that case the Arkbird idea, could be done because it has happened in the AC series. However as it was point out, unless if is not done than the incomplete infrastructure would be useless(from my understanding). So how to amend this problem, I will think of something shortly but any ideas from you guys would be appreciated
I see what you mean, maybe have railgun launch facility be built first I presume as first stage perhaps? At the very least if that is completed and not Arkbird itself the facility can still be used to launch other crazy projects
"In our darkest days, the Southern White Bird emerges as a symbol of unwavering resolve. Its wings span the horizon, casting a shadow over the chaos below and illuminating a path through the storm. As we fly alongside it, let our hearts be filled with courage and our spirits be unyielding. This majestic bird guides us towards victory, reminding us that even in the darkest times, hope can take flight and lead us to triumph."
[] Plan: Rising White Bird V2
-[] Name: Project Albatross
-[] Concept: A colossal low-orbit spacecraft, meticulously engineered to operate seamlessly in both the vacuum of space and within atmospheric conditions, stands as humanity's last line of defense against impending asteroid threats. This advanced vessel is outfitted with state-of-the-art technology and an array of formidable weapon systems, including high-powered laser beams and other cutting-edge armaments designed to intercept and obliterate incoming asteroid fragments before they can reach Earth.
In tandem with its defensive capabilities, the spacecraft is also engaged in constructing an innovative railgun launch assist facility. This facility is pivotal in accelerating reusable, large single-stage-to-orbit crafts and shuttles, ensuring efficient transport of essential components and crew members to the spacecraft. These shuttles will serve as a vital link, ferrying parts and personnel necessary for the continuous operation and maintenance of the spacecraft, thereby bolstering humanity's efforts to protect the planet from celestial hazards.
The process begins with surveys to find the best location for the railgun launch facility, focusing on stability, accessibility, and minimal environmental impact. Once the land is secured and cleared, detailed plans will be made with input from experts, and necessary environmental and safety checks will be completed.
Construction will start with setting up power systems, including substations and backup generators, and building the facility's main structure. Essential components like superconducting magnets and control electronics will be acquired and tested with a small prototype to ensure everything works as planned.
Collaboration with government agencies, aerospace companies, and academic institutions will be key for resources and funding. A public outreach campaign will address community concerns, and all required approvals and safety protocols will be put in place.
Installation of critical systems will follow, with thorough testing to ensure all parts work together smoothly. The railgun will undergo trial launches with dummy payloads to fine-tune its performance. Training programs will prepare the crew to operate the facility effectively. Throughout this phase, regular updates and reviews with stakeholders will ensure the project stays on track.
First, design and development will create detailed plans for the spacecraft, focusing on its features and performance. A prototype or simulation will be tested to ensure the design works.
Next, construction and testing will involve making and assembling key parts like the frame and propulsion system. The spacecraft will undergo integration tests and full-scale environmental tests to ensure it can handle space conditions.
In the third phase, final preparations will include making adjustments based on tests, integrating the spacecraft with the launch vehicle, and completing a readiness review to ensure everything is set for launch.
Finally, during the launch and post-launch phase, the spacecraft will be launched and monitored to ensure it reaches its orbit. Initial checks and calibration will be done once in space, and mission operations will begin. A review will follow to assess the launch and performance, capturing lessons for future missions.
--[] Scope: Monumental
--[] Approach: Fragment destruction
--[] Mobility: Stationary - Ground based railgun launch assist facility, Mobile - Orbital spacecraft.
--[] Location: On the island area administered by the brotherhood of Nod (A committee would determine where specifically the railgun launch facility would be establish)
-[] Host Mandates:
--[] [Antarc] Protect ancestral fisheries and hunting grounds
--[] [Chaldea] Establish world-class research institutions
--[] [Joint] Expand GDI
-[] Intent: To safeguard Humanity as a symbol of peace, to protect the planet in a post-Ulysses world and "bridge" a path into outer space. (And if for some reason it becomes a weapon of war…well)
I do think the "make sure your superweapon is useable even when incomplete" idea is great. I'm no physicist, but far as giant lasers go, would Durandal benefit from being multiple mini-excaliburs instead, whose beams get combined into a single more powerful laser by pointing them at a focusing lens that then shoots the combined beam?
That way, we still have a workable even if not ideal superweapon if we don't complete the 10K Monumental goal. Also, having multiple mini-Excaliburs means we can move them around at a later date after Ulysses to threaten people with since we don't need Asteroid busting firepower at that point.
Mobility: Mobile (Twin thrust-vectoring nuclear ramjets, plus some amount of methane reaction mass to be used instead for operation below minimum velocity and above the atmosphere)
The major difference in my version is making it three different planes rather than just one super plane. In universe, the rationale for that is to reduce the demands placed on any one particular aircraft by giving notable time to rest, repair, refuel, and rearm compared to just one plane needing to hold by itself for the full two weeks straight, as well as still being able to provide some asteroid mitigation technology even if only one or two are completed instead of having a single unusable plane that can't pull off any intercepts.
This is absolutely a good idea; real talk, there should be a bunch of these things. You'd really, really want to build a squadron if you remotely possibly could.
I think the QM just wanted to give us feedback on the existing ideas so we could refine them (as in my case) or develop new ideas that bore the feedback in mind.
To be clear, do you want me to elaborate on what a laser launch system is and why it would be useful, why I would expect us to have more relevant expertise with it, or both?
I do think the "make sure your superweapon is useable even when incomplete" idea is great. I'm no physicist, but far as giant lasers go, would Durandal benefit from being multiple mini-excaliburs instead, whose beams get combined into a single more powerful laser by pointing them at a focusing lens that then shoots the combined beam?
That way, we still have a workable even if not ideal superweapon if we don't complete the 10K Monumental goal. Also, having multiple mini-Excaliburs means we can move them around at a later date after Ulysses to threaten people with since we don't need Asteroid busting firepower at that point.