Attempting to Shatter the Skies: An Ace Combat Plan Quest

I think we're mostly limited to technologies that actually exist in Ace Combat, because this isn't a proper Nod crossover so much as a cameo or expy. That's why I suggested, essentially, an uprated version of the canonical Excalibur and am reluctantly backing down to a less- or not-really uprated version.


Oh, that's nice. I like it.

I think the keyword for the propulsion system you want is "scramjet," that hits most of the right technobabble highlights. If I were proposing a design, it'd be air-launched (flown up into the air by a 'mothership' and dropped at high speed), then ignite rocket boosters to get up to high speed with the scramjets. That would be used to start a suborbital flight path, get up above the atmosphere, launch the nuclear-tipped missiles at an exoatmospheric target, and then re-enter the atmosphere.

A lot of handwavium, but a design concept like that should work. Sadly, it has less in common with dogfighting and more in common with bomber intercepts under radar ground control, because we probably can't develop something with the kind of deep-space mobility we'd want in the time available.
I like this, especially the concept of using a parasite-fighter setup to give a high altitude launch. We could more or less invent the Arsenal Birds if we wanted to go the extra mile of UAV fighter-bombers, which would be useful for not pulping our pilots with G-forces.
 
I think we're mostly limited to technologies that actually exist in Ace Combat, because this isn't a proper Nod crossover so much as a cameo or expy. That's why I suggested, essentially, an uprated version of the canonical Excalibur and am reluctantly backing down to a less- or not-really uprated version.

Using a constellation of reflection satellites is totally viable, you just have to also build or buy space launch. If you had taken Southern Paperclip this would've been significantly easier. The hard part is that you then wanted to also invent APS like a decade early while on the world's most important time limit. Nothing stops you from launching bare minimum satellites now and replacing them later though.
 
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[] Plan: Rapid Deployment
-[] Megastructure Design:
--[] Name: Project Heimdall (can probably start this project after Ulysses deal with, )
---[] Concept: A Large Railgun turret launch system that able to use aircraft as payload, This launch system are build to be able to launch aircraft with enough speed to deploy immediately at certain range, the Railgun turrets got 270 degree of movement thus be able to aim the payload to exit the atmosphere or use the Earth high altitude orbit to help aircraft get to where its need faster. (Basically offload most launch system from aircraft itself that allows aircraft to have lighter load but still able to operate in both Atmosphere and in space)
---[] Scope: Huge (Only need enough to be able to get the aircraft in to orbit, the atmosphere slingshot range is just a bonus)
---[] Approach: -
---[] Mobility: Stationary - Ground based railgun launch turret.
---[] Location: On the island area administrated by the brotherhood of Nod.
--[] Name: Project Bifrost V.2
---[] Concept: A fighter jet which design to be able to handle the strain from potential Railgun launch assist in the future, equipped with best weaponry and technologies that we can muster to deal with asteroids that split from Ulysses, The plan is to go in send in a fleet to deal with asteroids in high altitude.
---[] Scope: Huge (one timed)/Small (repeatable) (Overall tech research then each fighter jet need Small point amount to build)
---[] Approach: Fragment destruction (Laser, Missle, etc)
---[] Mobility: Mobile (Nuclear reactor + Ion thruster? May have more effective thrusters need more research)
---[] Location: On the island area administrated by the brotherhood of Nod.
-[] Host Mandates:
--[] [Antarc] Protect ancestral fisheries and hunting grounds
--[] [Chaldea] Establish world-class research institutions
--[] [Joint] Expand GDI
-[] Intent: To the sky to stop an apocalypse, Shoot those fragments down and make our continents safe.
[] Plan: Rising White Bird
-[] Name: Project Albatross
-[] Concept: A giant low-orbiting spacecraft design to operate both in space and in atmosphere, equipped with the best techs and weapons to divert/destroy the asteroid fragments from Earth with laser beams and other weapon systems. While also building a railgun launch assist facility to accelerate reusable large single stage to orbit craft/shuttles. The shuttles will carry the components and crew to the spacecraft.
--[] Scope: Monumental
--[] Approach: Fragment destruction
--[] Mobility: Stationary - Ground based railgun launch assist facility, Mobile - Orbital spacecraft.


I think we could actually do all three of these. We could do the first two first and then do the third.

Even if we don't complete the third it could help alleviate the issue of the jets not being able to bring up enough ordinance.
 
I think we could actually do all three of these. We could do the first two first and then do the third.
I pretty sure we can only do 1 Huge scope to make it in time, so Bifrost V.2 first after that Heimdall then Albatross, prediction is that only one should be able to finished in time.

We can continue the rest after the asteroids though.

And it's possible to reach out to Osean for help in this too. They would likely be interested.
True, although not sure about 2 other projects being finished on time though. Well at least Bifrost V.2 should be finished and mass produced.
 
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All I'm saying is that we should build our own Arkbird for peace and humanity!!!(And nothing else at all…right?)
 
I'd actually be up for a High-Altitude fighter with enough firepower to destroy fragments. Only question is, what kind of weapons should it carry? I don't think the TLS would be sufficient for the job even if we pretty much already have the tech for it.

I think Leasath's SWBM (Shock Wave Ballistic Missiles) would work since they have absurd firepower even when miniaturized for a fighter to carry, but that was produced in the 2020s.
Pixy's 'Morgan' superfighter was throwing around burst missile warheads that looked like small tactical nukes (complete with giant glowy spherical fireballs) in 1995. "MPBM," I think the designation code was.

High payload missiles and Energy weapon which potentially give nearly infinite ammo. Is my guess especially when we gonna build something that got micro nuclear fission reactor on board.
I pretty sure our research dices gonna be busy.
The available energy weapons for fighters in Ace Combat generally do not have infinite ammo. Aircraft with nigh-unlimited laser shots tend to be giant-sized things hundreds of meters long, with actual room for a nuclear reactor.

I mean the Firestorm literally just laser array that got downscale to Laser wall then upscale again to become Coastal laser array/wall.
Plus we got +5 on [Laser] Project so I think its possible.
The problem with Firestorm is the enormous short-term power requirements of "vaporize all the water coming at us" when "all the water" is measured in millions, many millions, of tons. I don't think it can be made to work.

I can only really think of the Fenrir's LSWM (Long range Shock Wave Missile) for missiles that can significantly damage an asteroid fragment. If we're using that, however, I think we're better off not having an TLS on the fighter since we're going to need every bit of power to make sure the fighter can actually catch up with the asteroid fragment.
Realistic intercept profile is that the fighter launches its missiles in the direction of where the fragments are going to be, not some kind of tail chase. They're falling rocks; we can track them on radar and they are not going to maneuver or try to evade.

But again, the Morgan had, I say this having played Zero a fair bit in younger days, some goddamn scary munitions back in 1995. Sounds like Leasath was just ripping off something the Belkans had already done a quarter century ago...

Are we sure that we gonna end up with Fenrir frame? As I pretty sure that High altitude aircraft project not gonna be cheap.. (we literally put 10k project on a high altitude fighter jet)
Plus we may be able to improve its performance by doing multiples projects with may help in it mass production and performance later on. We may end up with something similar that what I about to say.

That not counting multiples research topics like railgun, laser, nuclear, engine, thruster, etc that will come later and then a project about factory to build fighter jet to shot down asteroids after all that.
Real talk, the smart way to do this is to just abandon the idea of building something that aesthetically resembles a normal fighter aircraft, accept that it's gonna be built to the same general scale as a heavy bomber. It's optimized to first get up fast and high, launch high-velocity vaguely guided rockets on pre-determined trajectories, then come back down and survive re-entry. The mission profile will feel, to the pilot, a lot more like being in a bomber than being in a fighter jet doing Air Combat Maneuvers.

Using a constellation of reflection satellites is totally viable, you just have to also build or buy space launch. If you had taken Southern Paperclip this would've been significantly easier. The hard part is that you then wanted to also invent APS like a decade early while on the world's most important time limit. Nothing stops you from launching bare minimum satellites now and replacing them later though.
Yeah, that's fair. Got a bit carried away with the Red Alert crossover ideas. I'll rewrite the Joyeuse proposal with that in mind.
 
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Yeah in scale it might be. It's more the maneuverability of a fighter aircraft we want.
I don't think we do want maneuverability. This thing isn't going to be dogfighting; there's nothing up there to dogfight. It needs to have very fast scramjet/rocket/combined cycle engines to get up to orbital velocity (which is about Mach 25), then it yeets its missiles in the general direction of the orbiting rocks (the missiles can just coast to their destinations), then it re-enters the atmosphere.

At no point in that process is the ability to do a fast barrel roll or an Immelmann, let alone some shit like Pugachev's Cobra, remotely helpful or desired.
 
I don't think we do want maneuverability. This thing isn't going to be dogfighting; there's nothing up there to dogfight. It needs to have very fast scramjet/rocket/combined cycle engines to get up to orbital velocity (which is about Mach 25), then it yeets its missiles in the general direction of the orbiting rocks (the missiles can just coast to their destinations), then it re-enters the atmosphere.

At no point in that process is the ability to do a fast barrel roll or an Immelmann, let alone some shit like Pugachev's Cobra, remotely helpful or desired.
So question what happens if the pieces we target fragment and are still too big.
 
So question what happens if the pieces we target fragment and are still too big.
Launch more interceptors, with more missiles, and bust them up smaller. It's going to be hectic and difficult, but that's the inherent cost of this system. If you're doing orbital fighter-bomber missions with vaguely realistic orbital mechanics and no propulsion systems beyond what could plausibly have been invented by sufficiently motivated 20th century engineers, you get one firing pass and then you're done, unless you launch something Real Big (like the Arkbird) that can carry a shitload of munitions and shoot again on the next orbit of the planet ninety minutes later. Or, theoretically, a laser cannon with nigh-unlimited shots, which means the answer just reduces to "shoot twice."
 
unless you launch something Real Big (like the Arkbird) that can carry a shitload of munitions and shoot again on the next orbit of the planet ninety minutes later. Or, theoretically, a laser cannon with nigh-unlimited shots, which means the answer just reduces to "shoot twice."
That actually ties into why I suggested doing all three.

The Arkbird would shatter the larger fragments first and then the interceptors would mop up the smaller fragments that got past it.
 
So.. I get why we going fast but do we can't just drop off speed to be manuever later when in operation zones? (Send 2 or more jet in to each zones to clear them out)

I mean we should be able to trace each asteroids fragment right?

Or is ace combat sensor tech lower then us?
 
That actually ties into why I suggested doing all three.

The Arkbird would shatter the larger fragments first and then the interceptors would mop up the smaller fragments that got past it.
I don't think it's realistic for us to build a workable interceptor project that would be very helpful if we're also heavily investing in an Arkbird. If we have hours' notice before the asteroid fragments arrive, the Arkbird just comes around for a second firing pass next orbit, or pumps the thing full of laser beams or railgun rounds or whatever. If we have minutes' notice, the Arkbird isn't a viable interception platform and what we really need is something that would look a lot like real world ballistic missile interception tech, with solid fuel rockets carrying nukes (or whatever mad science goes into burst missiles, if those are EMP-free) up into space.
 
So.. I get why we going fast but do we can't just drop off speed to be manuever later when in operation zones? (Send 2 or more jet in to each zones to clear them out)
Asteroid fragments are coming in at orbital velocity. Your notional interceptor has two options:

1) You can send it up into space on a rocket, and it launches its munitions while in space.
2) You fly it through the atmosphere, and it sits around in the impact area waiting for a chance to fire munitions UP at an asteroid fragment that is now falling into that area.

In case (1) the nature of orbital mechanics means you only get one shot. You can't do a banking turn in space. There's no airbrakes. You can't "turn around" or "drop off speed" during the firing run.

In case (2), the nature of falling rocks means you really only get one shot, because by the time you have ascertained whether the falling rock you just hucked a nuke at is sufficiently broken up to be less of a problem, it has already landed on you.
 
Asteroid fragments are coming in at orbital velocity. Your notional interceptor has two options:


1) You can send it up into space on a rocket, and it launches its munitions while in space.

2) You fly it through the atmosphere, and it sits around in the impact area waiting for a chance to fire munitions UP at an asteroid fragment that is now falling into that area.


In case (1) the nature of orbital mechanics means you only get one shot. You can't do a banking turn in space. There's no airbrakes. You can't "turn around" or "drop off speed" during the firing run.


In case (2), the nature of falling rocks means you really only get one shot, because by the time you have ascertained whether the falling rock you just hucked a nuke at is sufficiently broken up to be less of a problem, it has already landed on you.
Idea choose both options. what if we make a rocket missiles that got nuke or high yield explosive warhead + its main payload is an aircraft. I mean we can do something similar to rocket stage.

We send the whole missiles to target, aircraft deployed lefting nuke to deal with its main fragment as aircraft that come with deal with the rest?
 
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I don't think it's realistic for us to build a workable interceptor project that would be very helpful if we're also heavily investing in an Arkbird. If we have hours' notice before the asteroid fragments arrive, the Arkbird just comes around for a second firing pass next orbit, or pumps the thing full of laser beams or railgun rounds or whatever. If we have minutes' notice, the Arkbird isn't a viable interception platform and what we really need is something that would look a lot like real world ballistic missile interception tech, with solid fuel rockets carrying nukes (or whatever mad science goes into burst missiles, if those are EMP-free) up into space.

Ulysses is going to fragment on July 3rd, and the fragments will rain down for two weeks. Every radar installation in the world is going to be tracking them from the instant they appear. The first will impact within hours of fragmentation.

Please ignore the fact that the two week rain means that the entire globe should see impacts instead of just Usea, this is canon just roll with it.
 
We want a fighter that can operate in LEO and carry the necessary firepower for fragment destruction.
The AIR-2 Genie is actually great for that purpose, though we might want something bigger and heavier so it can achieve higher terminal velocities and thus be more flexible about what targets it can engage given that the launching craft's trajectory (in LEO) is more or less fixed. Something like the Sprint ABM missile sounds very good.

The problem is getting a craft that can go into LEO in the first place, and we really, really, REALLY need to think of that craft as being less like a fighter jet and more like a small space shuttle.

Idea what if we make a rocket missiles that got nuke or high yield explosive warhead and its main payload is an aircraft.

We send the whole missiles to target, aircraft deployed lefting nuke to deal with its main fragment as aircraft that come with deal with the rest?
I'm confused. Nuclear warheads are smaller than airplanes. How is this different from just launching the aerospace craft with a payload of smaller, nuclear-tipped missiles for it to fire at the enemy?

Ulysses is going to fragment on July 3rd, and the fragments will rain down for two weeks. Every radar installation in the world is going to be tracking them from the instant they appear. The first will impact within hours of fragmentation.

Please ignore the fact that the two week rain means that the entire globe should see impacts instead of just Usea, this is canon just roll with it.
Well, it would certainly explain why we'd prepare for fragments to hit us directly... :p

Oh, side note, I just checked the map, and if fragments are on highly inclined orbital trajectories such as might eventually come down on Anea, then they'd probably also pass over the southern hemisphere in our line of sight. We might be able to engage those.
 
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m confused. Nuclear warheads are smaller than airplanes. How is this different from just launching the aerospace craft with a payload of smaller, nuclear-tipped missiles for it to fire at the enemy?
The aircraft hitchhike on Rocket propulsion or railgun shell to get to the area, when it disconnect mass will go down and next stage of rocket propulsion happen as nuke warhead propel forward hit the target first for the aircraft to clean up.

This idea come from me want to double dip Project Heimdall acting as Railgun assist launcher which can launch aircraft. + nuke or warhead in single shot to not waste time and aircraft space for ammunition.
 
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The problem is getting a craft that can go into LEO in the first place, and we really, really, REALLY need to think of that craft as being less like a fighter jet and more like a small space shuttle.
That's why the railgun launchers were suggested. They are for getting it up there. They need to be able to maneuver once they are up there.
 
The aircraft hitchhike on Rocket propulsion or railgun shell to get to the area, when it disconnect mass will go down and next stage of rocket propulsion happen as nuke warhead propel forward hit the target first for the aircraft to clean up.
How is this different from putting nuclear missiles on the craft* itself, to be launched as the craft* approaches the target? Maybe it's your sentence structure confusing me, but I'm not seeing it.

That's why the railgun launchers were suggested. They are for getting it up there. They need to be able to maneuver once they are up there.
Well, it sound very impractical to put the entire craft* inside a railgun barrel, because the electromagnetic fields of the railgun firing would microwave the aircraft. You'd really need to attach the craft* to some kind of disposable sled has a part between the rails to be accelerated, or something like that. And you can't actually put things in a stable orbit just by firing them out of a cannon anyway. So the craft would already need engines, in the sense of "some propulsion system that can finish the job of boosting you from a suborbital path to an orbital path."

What it does not need is to be maneuverable in the sense of "being able to do dogfighting maneuvers." It just needs a (very good, vacuum-rated) propulsion system. Such as rocket engines built into it.

__________________________-

*(We shouldn't really call it an "aircraft" because it's not designed for maneuvering inside the atmosphere, except for limited maneuvering during re-entry like the space shuttle. It's a spacecraft.)
 
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