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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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TripleTango said:
What sort of force fields? Electromagnetic, gravitic, or something more exotic?

EDIT:I'll just cut to the chase. Can we make a Gravity Gun out of it? Something that can pick up, say, loose shards of Tiberium without actually touching it.
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This is more on the odds of ME interfaces, the few holographic interfaces we see on Star Treks newer shows or Covenant and Forerunner interfaces from Halo. Though a Forerunner one could probably make a weapon but I digress.

It's strictly an interface or control system of some sort, means a Firehawk pilot could readjust their cockpit controls and displays to suit their liking. Tank Crews would benefit too and could probably even allow the commander to sub in for a dead crew member without having to move positions or more easily monitor the status of the vehicle without looking at a half a dozen different screens.
 
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[ ] Emergency Electronic Resources Reallocation (New)
While GDI supplies many forms of electronic goods to the consumer market, most can also serve military and industrial aims. By reprioritizing the production from sites like Manchester and North Boston, GDI can make temporary boosts to its supply of capital goods. Emergency measures like this are deeply unpopular, especially with the armies of the Initiative planning offensives.
(+10 Capital Goods, -16 Consumer Goods) (Only for the war) (Does not count towards plan goals) (-20 Political Support)

and a spoiler for next turn's options.
 
Good update.

As I understand it our current priorities are:

CAPITAL GOODS!!!
Escort carriers
Any ships really
The navy needs help badly
Tech upgrades
Wingmen
All the lasers
Moar power!!!
Production in SPACE!!!
And war is coming.

So pretty much what we expected with a greater emphasis on capital goods and the navy.
 
Ithillid said:
There are broadly three plans for the opening months of the war. "Operation Eastern Paris," "Operation Autumn Archer" and "Operation Steel Vanguard". The first involves a hammerblow towards Karachi, where rapid buildup of the planned city would put the Indian Warlords onto the backfoot and allow the first beachhead towards the subcontinent after its abandonment in the late 2010s. The second is the most defensive, trading space and using the widespread defenses of the Green and outer Blue Zones to cripple the Brotherhood of Nod, and grind their forces down. The last involves a general spoiling assault, hitting key targets throughout Brotherhood regions and seizing the initiative.
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It seems that the military branches favor the operation that puts the biggest burden on another branch. The Ground Forces favor Eastern Paris which places the biggest burden on the Navy while the Navy favors Steel Vanguard which places the biggest burden on the Ground Forces. I think the Karachi Sprint or Eastern Paris places too big a burden on our most overstretched branch. There is Autumn Archer which is the traditional GDI strategy, but most of the branches favor some sort of offensive instead of waiting for Nod to strike first. I favor Steel Vanguard which places the main burden on our strongest military branch.

We should be prepared for a long war that might become the Fourth Tiberium War even if neither side intends for that to happen. Even if GDI achieves total success with an opening spoiling attack, the war is not going to end in six days because the Brotherhood of Nod is a guerilla force that will not sue for peace. The war will be very bloody in any case. Nod might defeat our spoiling attack or realize that GDI has discovered their plans and change them on us. Even great success for GDI in the incoming war would be rewarded with more violence and work as GDI would be occupying territory with millions of Yellow Zoners who likely a lot more pro-Nod than Yellow Zoners than the Yellow Zoners on the border we dealt with before.
 
Ithillid said:
[ ] Emergency Electronic Resources Reallocation (New)
While GDI supplies many forms of electronic goods to the consumer market, most can also serve military and industrial aims. By reprioritizing the production from sites like Manchester and North Boston, GDI can make temporary boosts to its supply of capital goods. Emergency measures like this are deeply unpopular, especially with the armies of the Initiative planning offensives.
(+10 Capital Goods, -16 Consumer Goods) (Only for the war) (Does not count towards plan goals) (-20 Political Support)
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So, do we want to do this option? Doing this will also likely crash the market that is already starting to shrink due to looming war fears and cause a run on consumer goods because people will take it as a sign that GDI believes renewed full-scale war with Nod is imminent. I wonder why the armies dislike it. Do they fear that it will give the game away to Nod? Do they fear that preemptive emergency measures will harm popular support for what people will view as an offensive war of choice by GDI (even if Nod was going to attack anyway)?
 
Ithillid said:
[ ] Emergency Electronic Resources Reallocation (New)
While GDI supplies many forms of electronic goods to the consumer market, most can also serve military and industrial aims. By reprioritizing the production from sites like Manchester and North Boston, GDI can make temporary boosts to its supply of capital goods. Emergency measures like this are deeply unpopular, especially with the armies of the Initiative planning offensives.
(+10 Capital Goods, -16 Consumer Goods) (Only for the war) (Does not count towards plan goals) (-20 Political Support)
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Given how much easier it is to get Consumer Goods and how this is a temporary measure for a rational reason that the public should be able to accept, I'd say it's a very useful option that should be taken. Because the people would be trading temporary discomfort for long-term safety.

...

Then again, that kind of argument never had much appeal to the voters, who seems to never ever want to reduce the Consumer goods goals for planning. So I'd bet this won't be implemented at all.

I mean maybe there will be 'risks' to having a lower Capital goods margin vs potential damage, but surely those are acceptable in the eyes of the public when they'd rather be more comfortable than safe, like they always have. Maybe life isn't worth living to them if they can't live it the way they want or something.
 
marids said:
Given how much easier it is to get Consumer Goods and how this is a temporary measure for a rational reason that the public should be able to accept, I'd say it's a very useful option that should be taken. Because the people would be trading temporary discomfort for long-term safety.

...

Then again, that kind of argument never had much appeal to the voters, who seems to never ever want to reduce the Consumer goods goals for planning. So I'd bet this won't be implemented at all.

I mean maybe there will be 'risks' to having a lower Capital goods margin vs potential damage, but surely those are acceptable in the eyes of the public when they'd rather be more comfortable than safe, like they always have. Maybe life isn't worth living to them if they can't live it the way they want or something.
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We are at +42 consumer goods and have more rolling in, even shifting 16 consumer goods still leaves us with a large surplus.
 
BoredStudent1414 said:
So, do we want to do this option? Doing this will also likely crash the market that is already starting to shrink due to looming war fears and cause a run on consumer goods because people will take it as a sign that GDI believes renewed full-scale war with Nod is imminent. I wonder why the armies dislike it. Do they fear that it will give the game away to Nod? Do they fear that preemptive emergency measures will harm popular support for what people will view as an offensive war of choice by GDI (even if Nod was going to attack anyway)?
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The Army itself isn't opposed to the idea but the civilians are. The rest of the civilian government can see that the military is preparing to push out against Nod and doesn't like the idea of shaving away consumer chip production to support a military that seems to believe it can strike and win at the moment. They don't see the point in it. If we weren't able to prepare such a push and the military was preparing for Autumn Archer or if we were beginning to stalemate or lose ground we would be more likely to see a civilian government and population that is amenable to shifting factories to wartime production.

We can still do it but people will be upset that we've done it. At the very least we still have a massive surplus of consumer goods and switching the chip fabs over won't affect either our capital or consumer goods targets.
 
BoredStudent1414 said:
So, do we want to do this option? Doing this will also likely crash the market that is already starting to shrink due to looming war fears and cause a run on consumer goods because people will take it as a sign that GDI believes renewed full-scale war with Nod is imminent. I wonder why the armies dislike it. Do they fear that it will give the game away to Nod? Do they fear that preemptive emergency measures will harm popular support for what people will view as an offensive war of choice by GDI (even if Nod was going to attack anyway)?
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I'm gonna say no--or at least, not right away. Treat it as the 'break glass in case of emergency' option it is.
 
Better to do it early in the war, and build up a cap goods reserve. Right now we have a glass jaw that NOD can easily take advantage of. A larger reserve will give our military a lot more flexibility in their deployments.
 
So with the new teased action for an infusion of cap goods we can afford to do an advanced eva next turn- do people think we should do Mil or HI? I am leaning towards HI since I can see more free dice in Q2 to Q4 focused there and that builds up the cap goods and energy to do advanced Eva mil later in the year.
 
Ithillid said:
These range from ones considered innocuous, like flour, spinach, or brussels sprouts
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I strongly disagree.

Also, we need to give Erehwon a kitten.

Ithillid said:
Developmentalists:‌ ‌1038 ‌seats‌ ‌(500;‌ ‌238;‌ 250;‌ ‌50)‌ ‌
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And from one year ago:
Ithillid said:
Developmentalists:‌ ‌640 ‌seats‌ ‌(310;‌ ‌245;‌ ‌85;‌ ‌0)‌ ‌
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Normalised:
Strong Support 48%->48%
Weak Support 38%->23%
Weak Opposition 13%->24%
Strong Opposition 0%->5%

And with the explicit mention that Bergen is needed for better power options, I'm mildly surprised that nobody is trying to put free dice on LCI.
It may be worth putting 8 dice on Nuuk this coming turn, so that we can be reasonably sure of completing Nuuk 3 on the turn after. We don't have time to slow walk it anymore.
This may mean Tib Power. But I don't have any issues with that. Mad Science gonna Mad Science.

So Eastern Paris inexplicably has the Ground Forces happy to go jump in, when we can't sustain Naval support for them. I'm a little bit concerned that their morale is too high.
Still, it might be okay if we can manage to rush the Carriers and Mastodons? Hmmm... Will have to see what Steel Vanguard will need. Autumn Archer is a No.
 
Void Stalker said:
So with the new teased action for an infusion of cap goods we can afford to do an advanced eva next turn- do people think we should do Mil or HI? I am leaning towards HI since I can see more free dice in Q2 to Q4 focused there and that builds up the cap goods and energy to do advanced Eva mil later in the year.
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I can hear the screaming from here. And not only are we in a different reality, but different time period as well...

This is the 'get fired real soon' option. What that emergency reallocation should only be used for is filling up the Capital Goods Reserve and building up military factories to support the offensives before we complete the new capital goods factories to build them. Basically don't think of it as giving us +10 Capital Goods to do whatever with, think of it as giving us a +10 Capital Goods secondary reserve which we can deplete for time-critical militarily important construction or to offset war damage to capital goods production. But something which we should be freeing up as soon as possible so it can tank the next hit without touching our actual Capital Goods pool.

If we take that option, I'd want to cancel the reallocation next year if possible so the civilians don't get too mad at us.
 
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Ithillid said:
YellowZon3r
Cast my vote for the scorpion lady running in my district. Shame FMP leaked her voicework for H-Anime and she didn't get a seat but at least Developmentalist dude won. Cringe as fuck that FMP are interfering with their free market by attempting to regulate womens jobs through social pressure but they've just lost a voter. Unfortunately it seems Open hand doesn't have many candidates willing to run so they're all a little out there, also counting against them is most of the other major parties can point to years of experience as part of the ruling coalition and various successes which benefits the entrenched establishment but oh well.
FloatingWood
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FMP is just really asking for it aren't they?

Ithillid said:
AleksyNowak
I am a member of Open Hand. Crucible has kept his peace but I will not. We were deliberately excluded from interaction with the media. For the past six months we were trying to get interviews anywhere we could, major, minor and regional television and radio stations all ignored us. Newspapers and news websites refused to run any information on us. Worst of all was that the only offer for an actual interview we received was from an Initiative First aligned television station that intended to bring Crucible on and pit him against over a hundred Initiative First legislators, treating it as a publicity stunt. He was still willing to go, but we begged him not to, and then they attacked him as a coward
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This annoys me. I hope InOps puts the boots to those guys. Can't talk about fair elections and not actually have them.

Ithillid said:
FloatingWood
#GDIWife, and the refugees who come here? What do you think they want?
Water to drink, food to eat, a bed to sleep in, a home to live in, without fear of being killed by tiberium, without fear of being shot for not bowing down enough, without fear of being forced to charge across an open field into prepared defenses, often, I will note, Nod defenses.
We gain so much more when we share our embarrassment of riches with those who have little, for they know what they have gained. The Home Guard showed it during Arkhangalsk, and they showed it during St. Petersburg. They will fight to protect us all, because if they don't, everything they have gained through being GDI citizens will be lost, and corrupted. These refugees are among our most dedicated, be it as soldiers, as policemen, as firemen, as medics, or in any job.
Whyever would we not welcome them, and respect them, and treat them as kin?
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True.

Ithillid said:
GDIWife
#FloatingWood NO because unlike SOME people I have been here my entire life. This is my HOME and ALL I want is for it to be SAFE. These Nod supporters are the ENEMY. Always have been, always will be. I just hope I'll be here to say I told you so when they stab you in the back
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I generally avoid violence but I desire to punch this woman.

Ithillid said:
The Initiative's artillery systems have had small numbers of guided shells as part of their loadout for decades. However, there have always been three serious problems holding back their universal adoption. First is that these shells, despite their long effective range, require spotters. While normally spotter systems are fairly sizable, they are little more than a rounding error compared to the needs of life support, mobility, and firepower on modern Zone Armor. Currently Zone Armor is almost entirely exclusive to ZOCOM, but that can change quickly. Second is a matter of cost. While the physical materials are relatively cheap, a dumb contact, or even airburst shell is many times simpler than one that can be fed precise targeting data, or perform terminal guidance on its own. Third and finally is a much more proximate cause. With the vast increase in the number of artillery tubes delivered, the Initiative had severe problems providing enough artillery shells simply to keep the guns firing, let alone provide vast swarms of guided munitions, despite their effectiveness.
Now, all three problems have been solved. There are plentiful shells, guidance systems, while not anywhere close to universal, are at most simply awaiting funding, and the costs are immaterial next to the potential to keep Initiative soldiers alive. Current production has brought the ammunition load of guided shells from five to twenty five per gun, a noticeable upgrade in firepower
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This is a big deal. It's good we got them online now.
 
Void Stalker said:
So with the new teased action for an infusion of cap goods we can afford to do an advanced eva next turn- do people think we should do Mil or HI? I am leaning towards HI since I can see more free dice in Q2 to Q4 focused there and that builds up the cap goods and energy to do advanced Eva mil later in the year.
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The EVA bonuses are not Philadelphia's bonuses, which 1. applied to all our dice, not just one bureau's, and 2. cost zero Capital Goods instead of six a pop. Each +3 per die bonus is a long term investment... a very long term for them to pay off, given the cost. Not exactly something worth rushing out for a war, especially when we'll have to pay back that +10 CG when the war ends.

The second best use of that +10 CG is to maaaaybe build shipyards for the Navy. But the best use of them is to leave them as a surpluss so we can build our reserve to protect against NOD causing a CG shortage. Our main goal for the next few turns is to support the war and prevent an economic collapse. Diverting critical emergency resources for an expensive and unnecessary numbers-go-up action isn't going to help anyone but NOD.
 
Derpmind said:
The EVA bonuses are not Philadelphia's bonuses, which 1. applied to all our dice, not just one bureau's, and 2. cost zero Capital Goods instead of six a pop. Each +3 per die bonus is a long term investment... a very long term for them to pay off, given the cost. Not exactly something worth rushing out for a war, especially when we'll have to pay back that +10 CG when the war ends.

The second best use of that +10 CG is to maaaaybe build shipyards for the Navy. But the best use of them is to leave them as a surpluss so we can build our reserve to protect against NOD causing a CG shortage. Our main goal for the next few turns is to support the war and prevent an economic collapse. Diverting critical emergency resources for an expensive and unnecessary numbers-go-up action isn't going to help anyone but NOD.
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The thing is rolling them out onto HI is going to accelerate our cap goods and energy deployment and hitting that at the start of the war can mean the difference between keeping HI flowing or not or lets us divert free dice into mil while keeping up with demands. This is a war making this decisions and making them early is crucial. And we have +42 with more consumer goods flowing in, we are so far from a shortage more so with perennial brining in more, enterprise phase 4 another 2 and more trickling in.
 
Void Stalker said:
The thing is rolling them out onto HI is going to accelerate our cap goods and energy deployment and hitting that at the start of the war can mean the difference between keeping HI flowing or not or lets us divert free dice into mil while keeping up with demands. This is a war making this decisions and making them early is crucial. And we have +42 with more consumer goods flowing in, we are so far from a shortage more so with perennial brining in more, enterprise phase 4 another 2 and more trickling in.
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Doesn't it cost a field die per turn that the project is ongoing? So even if we over-invest to ensure that it only takes one turn to complete (and pay a commensurately high cost in resources to do so), we'll be looking at giving up an average of 79 HI progress? If so, it'll take ~26 HI dice (at +3 per die) before we are back to where we started. And that's before factoring in the 6 cap goods and 3 energy (both of which we get easiest from HI) that the project will consume.

It's a great long term investment, but it isn't going to be helpful for the war.
 
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Rakuhn said:
Doesn't it cost a field die per turn that the project is ongoing? So even if we overinvert to ensure that it only takes one turn to complete (and pay an commensurately high cost in resources to do so), we'll be looking at giving up an average of 79 HI progress? If so, it'll take ~26 HI dice (at +3 per die) before we are back to where we started. And that's before factoring in the 6 cap goods and 3 energy (both of which we get easiest from HI) that the project will consume.

It's a great long term investment, but it isn't going to be helpful for the war.
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No? It has: (Locks 1 die until project is complete) which seems to be once you start it keeps one service dice until you finish it and get the bonus so once you start work work continues each turn until it finishes
 
Void Stalker said:
The thing is rolling them out onto HI is going to accelerate our cap goods and energy deployment and hitting that at the start of the war can mean the difference between keeping HI flowing or not or lets us divert free dice into mil while keeping up with demands. This is a war making this decisions and making them early is crucial. And we have +42 with more consumer goods flowing in, we are so far from a shortage more so with perennial brining in more, enterprise phase 4 another 2 and more trickling in.
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Nuuk Phases 3, 4, and 5 give +1 CG per 40 progress. 6 CG from our most efficient CG project is then 240 progress. Using that measure, to regain the 6 CG spent in progress we'd need to roll 80 HI dice. And the EVA project costs 1 die from the bureau it's being made for, so bump that up to 81 dice.

If we spend all 7 free dices each turn in HI, it'd take us 7 turns to break even. Is the war even going to still be ongoing two years from now?
 
Void Stalker said:
No? It has: (Locks 1 die until project is complete) which seems to be once you start it keeps one service dice until you finish it and get the bonus so once you start work work continues each turn until it finishes
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The die that gets locked is the field die. So you lose a die (like say Mil or HI) every turn you are working on integrating the AEVAs into that field.
 
If we do the reallocation, I'd like to put some towards the Automatic Medical Assistants, see if we need any for military projects, and probably let the rest go to refilling our emergency stocks/serving as a cushion in case of a successful attack on our factories.
AEVA is not something I'm okay with doing now, given it locks a die from that department.
 
Derpmind said:
Nuuk Phases 3, 4, and 5 give +1 CG per 40 progress. 6 CG from our most efficient CG project is then 240 progress. Using that measure, to regain the 6 CG spent in progress we'd need to roll 80 HI dice. And the EVA project costs 1 die from the bureau it's being made for, so bump that up to 81 dice.

If we spend all 7 free dices each turn in HI, it'd take us 7 turns to break even. Is the war even going to still be ongoing two years from now?
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We dont need to make up the CG from Nuuk- we have +42 and just trigger perenial which adds +1 a turn and have enterprise phase 4 giving +2 a turn plus whatever we get from grants, kudzu and more. So your calling it 80 dice to make up is not a valid analysis. At worst it is a switch so we need 10 cap goods to make up for that which is far less than 80 HI dice.

Edit- Nuuk 1 to 3 the +3 would save a dice from that. Going nuuk 4 and 5 is just going to add to the dice savings

Ithillid said:
The die that gets locked is the field die. So you lose a die (like say Mil or HI) every turn you are working on integrating the AEVAs into that field.
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Can you clarify that next turn, though that does encourage overkill to avoid locking HI and Mil dice.
 
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