Crazy7s1
Excellent
This kinda makes me want to wait another year before kicking it off, get the airforce sorted, the navy more ships and get OSRCT built up and then come in with all the things.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
This kinda makes me want to wait another year before kicking it off, get the airforce sorted, the navy more ships and get OSRCT built up and then come in with all the things.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Kane has always gotten the drop in us. I'm still half expecting the turn before we start it? Kane going that's illegal and just randomly stating the war first.
- Location
- Africa
we need to do one of the major cap goods projects like Boston phase 5 to ensure we have a surplus for the war and best do it early so we aren't scrambling to get it done when the war breaks out to get over the cap goods paywall for up gunning our forces , its a big project at 2400 points but we've speed run 2000 point projects before we could likely get it done the same way inside 4 turns or 5 at most
It'd be a squad heavy weapon option potentially developed under the GD-3 program, hauled around by the squad's heavy weapon section. Mostly because that 20mm autocannon? It has to have a lower velocity than the GD-2 standard munition, because otherwise you wreck the shoulder of whoever is shooting it, and that means it has relatively shitty penetration and has to depend on the blast of the grenades it fires. It also has extremely limited ammunition, with a standard size magazine being lucky to hold 10-15 shots simply because it's a 20mm shell, and relatively heavy per shot so your boys aren't hauling a lot of them around even if it could fit.
Look, the GD-3 is not useless. But for the purposes of Karachi it has very limited effect. If you want GDI forces to effectively contest Gana, GDI needs man portable railguns and lasers, vehicle mounted or man portable ion cannons, plasma guns, and fire support options. Roll out the shells, rockets, power armour and air power, basically, or wait for 2061 for a late Plan sprint and hope the extra 4 quarters lets GDI technological developments mature a little so they become available for deployment.
- Location
- USA
Seems like we should shelve the gd-3 rifle for the moment and put the dice towards something else.
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Or go with a plan that's hyper aggressive on military spending to see how much can be made ready, then go in for the Sprint. That's what'll get my vote. If it can be made to work it makes so many things so much easier in the immediate and long term, and sitting and hoping for better is wasteful.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
-[] Military 8/8 +7 free dice 250R
--[] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 118/300 3 dice 75R 88%
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Orca Refit Deployment 151/200 1 die 15R 92%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 1) 55/220 3 dice 60R 97% (2% phase 2)
--[] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 2 dice 30R 96%
--[] Shell Plants (Phase 5) 27/150 2 dice 20R 84%
--[] Railgun Munitions Development 0/60 1 die 10R 86%
--[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 2 dice 20R 61%
Here's about where I think we should be putting our Military dice next turn. Uses enough dice that we can be nearly certain of gaining more of our three consumables, the long-range sensors, and the first OSRCT station. It also finishes the Orcas and MARVs as leaving either unfinished is a bad idea.
The most controversial choice might be doing the Railgun Munitions over the GD3. I chose Railguns as while the GD3 is meant for rear-line troops, the Railguns are used by everyone but especially front-line troops, and will likely be far easier to roll out fast in one turn. But that said, I'm fine with either winning out.
--[] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 118/300 3 dice 75R 88%
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Orca Refit Deployment 151/200 1 die 15R 92%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 1) 55/220 3 dice 60R 97% (2% phase 2)
--[] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 2 dice 30R 96%
--[] Shell Plants (Phase 5) 27/150 2 dice 20R 84%
--[] Railgun Munitions Development 0/60 1 die 10R 86%
--[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 2 dice 20R 61%
Here's about where I think we should be putting our Military dice next turn. Uses enough dice that we can be nearly certain of gaining more of our three consumables, the long-range sensors, and the first OSRCT station. It also finishes the Orcas and MARVs as leaving either unfinished is a bad idea.
The most controversial choice might be doing the Railgun Munitions over the GD3. I chose Railguns as while the GD3 is meant for rear-line troops, the Railguns are used by everyone but especially front-line troops, and will likely be far easier to roll out fast in one turn. But that said, I'm fine with either winning out.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not that I think putting dice towards Colombia is a terrible thing, but I'll definitely be voting for plans that prioritize Enterprise and mines over Colombia.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Thaaat was my conclusion.
I think consensus is shifting in favor of your position all over as people figure out what the GD-3 is and is not meant to do.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
It seems to me there are three possible investment paths for Orbital in the coming quarter: Columbia, Rare Metal Harvesting, and Heavy Metal Harvesting. Enterprise could be invested in, however, we would not be finishing any phases in Q4 and it seems to me that it would be better to either get the political benefit of Columbia or the Resource benefit of Lunar mines (especially the latter with the current dice glut from Philly).
For Columbia we are only interested in doing the first three phases at most and only in this coming quarter for the political impact on the elections. Also finishing the third phase gives us access to a Bay. If we invest, I think our choices here are either shooting for 2 phases with 4 dice, or scrounging up 3 free dice and shooting for 3 phases.
For Rare Metal Harvesting vs Heavy Metal Mines I think we should look at the comparative costs and benefits of the first two phases of the former with the first phase of the latter. this is because there are only two phases currently available for Rare, and only the first phase has metal processing available for Heavy Metal, the second and beyond Phases of Heavy Metal Mines would give us heavy metals, not R.
Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting Phase 1+2:
- 0/325 Progress
- +10 RpT
- -30 mine Progress cost?
- 3 dice 60R 4%, 4 dice 80R 40%, 5 dice 100R 81%, 6 dice 120R 97%
- 2 mines for plan goal
Heavy Metals Mines Phase 1:
- 0/395 Progress
- +20 RpT
- -10 mine Progress cost?
- 4 dice 80R 3%, 5 dice 100R 29%, 6 dice 120R 67%, 7 dice 140R 90%
- 1 mine for plan goal
The mine progress cost reduction is uncertain, we know that after the first phase of Rare Metals the second phase has a progress cost reduction of 15, and that after each phase of Heavy Metals, the next costs 10 progress less. We also know that this progress cost reduction does not occur for Regolith Harvesting.
Comparatively while the two phases of Rare are cheeper then the one phase of Heavy, Heavy gives twice the RpT, though only half of the plan commitment and 1/3? the progress cost reduction for future lunar mines. Furthermore we don't want to over invest in Rare Metals as there are no future phases beyond phase 2. It seems to me that if we choose to invest in Rare, a good maximum investment in Rare Metals is 4 dice for 40% completing chance, with a min investment of 3 dice to have a 90% chance of finishing phase 1. That way we can slow walk it to completion if necessary.
Heavy Metal Mines by comparison we would want to invest as many dice as we could. Unlike Rare Metals, where we could invest dice and be relatively certain of improving our income this turn, unless we invest free dice we only have a 2 in 3 chance of getting income this turn by investing in Heavy Metals. But the balance is that we would be making twice as much if it completed as we would if we completed both Rare mines.
Really for me, our orbital choices it boils down to:
Heavy investment in Columbia for the political impact and for access to a Bay, but at the cost of free dice
[] Orbital 6/6 + 3 Free dice 180R
-[] GDSS Columbia 9 dice, 180R, 95% chance Phase 1+2+3
Moderate investment in Columbia, get the first .25k colonists up there, with Mines filing the rest. (I chose rare metals here just for the chance to actually get some income for the next turn)
[] Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] GDSS Columbia 4 dice, 80R, 92% chance Phase 1+2
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 2 dice, 40R, 43% chance Phase 1
Heavy investment in mines for the income
[] Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 4 dice, 80R 99% chance (40% chance of Phase 1+2)
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 1) 2 dice, 40R, 2/5.5 median
OR
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 1) 6 dice, 120R, 67% chance
For Columbia we are only interested in doing the first three phases at most and only in this coming quarter for the political impact on the elections. Also finishing the third phase gives us access to a Bay. If we invest, I think our choices here are either shooting for 2 phases with 4 dice, or scrounging up 3 free dice and shooting for 3 phases.
For Rare Metal Harvesting vs Heavy Metal Mines I think we should look at the comparative costs and benefits of the first two phases of the former with the first phase of the latter. this is because there are only two phases currently available for Rare, and only the first phase has metal processing available for Heavy Metal, the second and beyond Phases of Heavy Metal Mines would give us heavy metals, not R.
Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting Phase 1+2:
- 0/325 Progress
- +10 RpT
- -30 mine Progress cost?
- 3 dice 60R 4%, 4 dice 80R 40%, 5 dice 100R 81%, 6 dice 120R 97%
- 2 mines for plan goal
Heavy Metals Mines Phase 1:
- 0/395 Progress
- +20 RpT
- -10 mine Progress cost?
- 4 dice 80R 3%, 5 dice 100R 29%, 6 dice 120R 67%, 7 dice 140R 90%
- 1 mine for plan goal
The mine progress cost reduction is uncertain, we know that after the first phase of Rare Metals the second phase has a progress cost reduction of 15, and that after each phase of Heavy Metals, the next costs 10 progress less. We also know that this progress cost reduction does not occur for Regolith Harvesting.
Comparatively while the two phases of Rare are cheeper then the one phase of Heavy, Heavy gives twice the RpT, though only half of the plan commitment and 1/3? the progress cost reduction for future lunar mines. Furthermore we don't want to over invest in Rare Metals as there are no future phases beyond phase 2. It seems to me that if we choose to invest in Rare, a good maximum investment in Rare Metals is 4 dice for 40% completing chance, with a min investment of 3 dice to have a 90% chance of finishing phase 1. That way we can slow walk it to completion if necessary.
Heavy Metal Mines by comparison we would want to invest as many dice as we could. Unlike Rare Metals, where we could invest dice and be relatively certain of improving our income this turn, unless we invest free dice we only have a 2 in 3 chance of getting income this turn by investing in Heavy Metals. But the balance is that we would be making twice as much if it completed as we would if we completed both Rare mines.
Really for me, our orbital choices it boils down to:
Heavy investment in Columbia for the political impact and for access to a Bay, but at the cost of free dice
[] Orbital 6/6 + 3 Free dice 180R
-[] GDSS Columbia 9 dice, 180R, 95% chance Phase 1+2+3
Moderate investment in Columbia, get the first .25k colonists up there, with Mines filing the rest. (I chose rare metals here just for the chance to actually get some income for the next turn)
[] Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] GDSS Columbia 4 dice, 80R, 92% chance Phase 1+2
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 2 dice, 40R, 43% chance Phase 1
Heavy investment in mines for the income
[] Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 4 dice, 80R 99% chance (40% chance of Phase 1+2)
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 1) 2 dice, 40R, 2/5.5 median
OR
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 1) 6 dice, 120R, 67% chance
- Location
- USA
I'd hold off on Columbia till we get some political promises or something from it.
Right now we need resources for dice.
Right now we need resources for dice.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It should be noted that further stages of Enterprise will also increase the, for the moment, hidden orbital refinery capacity.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Yes, but the orbital refining isn't doing anything for us currently as we only have one lunar mine up. We could focus on getting Enterprise, but we might as well get the mines that will give us income first as the income can be used for various projects. If we get Enterprise first we would still have to build up our mines down the road. The mines and Enterprise are both plan goals, so it makes sense to get mines up to our current refinery capacity, then continue expanding Enterprise.
I'd move a die from OSRCT to the ablative plating factories to make sure we get it, I think having more ablat will be more generally useful for the subcontinent full of laser crocodiles and 2 dice for the OSRCT station still has a better than even chance to get it next turn. But broadly yeah I fully agree with the priorities of the plan, arguing over minor dice allocations can wait until it's a real vote.
At this point, any projects we develop/build won't be contributing very much to the landings, factories coming online at the end of Q4 won't have an appreciable amount of time to produce stuff before the boots hit the ground. Our build strategy now needs to be about holding a presence on the subcontinent long-term rather than just trying to cheese the landings, and I think the two priorities for that are 1) consumables production to keep up with intense sustained combat for potentially years on end and 2) a serious upgrade program for the air force. Consumables we can do fast and cheap so let's get those out of the way right now, and they can hit the field faster than anything else since the supply chains/doctrine/training/etc already exist we're just putting more stuff in them.
Then over the course of 2060 we probably smash out a bunch of Apollo and wingman drone factories to try and maintain air superiority after our unloved and underfunded air force runs into swarms of Barghest-2's supported by an untouched industrial base in the deepest core of NOD territory and we all freak the fuck out when they actually lose some battles, but that's a problem for 2060. For now consumables are the big easy improvement, and they're a plan target to boot, so I really want to focus on them.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh so it's like a NeoStrike as a SAW?
But also: it's entirely possible to fire a full-sized 20mm autocannon round and not instantly break your shoulder. You just need the right gun and a little bracing.
Think an assault rifle in configuration, meant to be shot while standing or kneeling without further support. Probably single shot, but might be configured to be capable of burst or full auto as well.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Personally I would favor Heavy Metals Mines even in the cases where we have few dice to spare for mining. At the moment our mining priority should still be to keep up high return on investment, since we expect to use that return on investment for at least the next eight turns. As long as we can get definite +RpT from a mine option, and the option isn't otherwise wasteful, we should go for best RpT return on investment.
Right now, spending six dice on a phase of Heavy Metals Mines (120 R minimum realistic cost) can still pay for itself before reapportionment time.
Spending three dice on a Rare Metals Harvesting operation phase (60 R minimum realistic cost) phase can't.
The rare metals options are most attractive if:
1) We're at the end of the Plan and need to slam out the last few phases of moon mining that we intend to do, all in a hurry.
2) It turns out that the -15 Progress Cost from any Rare Metals mine affects all other mining options. From what @Ithillid has said, this strikes me as fairly unlikely, though it'd obviously change my mind if it were true.
Now, once we've exhausted the good +RpT options for further moon mining, then it becomes more attractive to go back and finish Enterprise at least up through Phase 4 in hopes that it'll give us more potential to refine the 'Heavy Metals' and 'Light Metals' resources into actual RpT income...
Personally I think it might be worth working on Columbia for the impact on public morale (see A Greying Population, posted in one of the Results posts).
But I can understand the logic, especially since we ARE in a soft Resource crunch.
So, essentially something that straddles the line between a battle rifle and a grenade launcher?
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think our next priority has to be the Escort Carriers for the Navy. We've delayed that for likely too long, and it won't be cheap.
As for the Air Force, I suspect that while more Apollos will help, it's also a symptom of us falling behind on tech development on that front. We need the Wingman Drones, certainly, but we also should try to get one the Tactical Airborne Lasers or the Neural Interface System to keep our technological edge in the air. Though just building all three Apollo factories will likely tide us over for a while instead.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So it's a Neopup then?
Eh. Feels like a 'can do with, can do without.'
- Location
- USA
The Apollo factories are trickier than that I think.
I think our firehawks have lost the technological edge over nod and building the new factories helps us keep it with the Apollo becoming the standard.
We definitely need those other techs you mentioned but our lowest tier planes getting beat doesn't mean that we are really getting behind quite yet.
it did when we did mining in the past. However that might have changed now. Since that could have been from setting up the initial infrastructure on the moon.
I remeber it because I wanted to do one of each mine type before focusing down on one type, Since I thought there would be a bonus reduction from being able to source all types(not all since unless we were just doing 20-40 R worth of dice then we couldnt afford all of it from the mines) of materials from space for a space project.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Here's when we did the Lunar Regolith Harvesting in Q2 2057, then the discounts we recieved in Q3:
Alternatively, the discount given to the other mines might be half the discount each phase gives to itself. 10 progress for each phase of Regolith mining also giving 5 progress to the other mines could mean we'll get a 7.5 progress discount from each phase of Rare Metals to the other mines. That would mean doing the Rare Metals first would give the Heavy Metals a 105 point discount in total, or a nearly 1.5 average dice discount.
Regardless of all that, if our goal isn't die efficiency but the fastest RpT return to help our economy get back, then we should just do one phase of Heavy Metals followed by doing the two Rare Metals. Then move on to station building.
As you can see, the discount given to the other two projects was 5 points from each phase. If we do both phases of the Rare Metals, it'll likely give us a 10 point discount to Regolith and Heavy Metals. For the seven currently avaliable Heavy Metal mines, (up from six back then) this would save 70 progress in total, meaning it'll add up to nearly one average die saved across all the mines together. If that's worth the lower resource return of the Rare Metals, or helps with how they're worth two mines instead of one, I'm not sure.
Alternatively, the discount given to the other mines might be half the discount each phase gives to itself. 10 progress for each phase of Regolith mining also giving 5 progress to the other mines could mean we'll get a 7.5 progress discount from each phase of Rare Metals to the other mines. That would mean doing the Rare Metals first would give the Heavy Metals a 105 point discount in total, or a nearly 1.5 average dice discount.
Regardless of all that, if our goal isn't die efficiency but the fastest RpT return to help our economy get back, then we should just do one phase of Heavy Metals followed by doing the two Rare Metals. Then move on to station building.
- Location
- USA
I think it would be worth doing a phase of each just so our space economy has access to each type independent of earth.
Probably not the best investment as far as pure numbers unless there are some hidden benefits that get triggered.
Probably not the best investment as far as pure numbers unless there are some hidden benefits that get triggered.