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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Crazycryodude said:
GDI doesn't have farms anymore, plants in dirt growing via sunlight is a relic of the pre-Tiberium era. All our food these days is grown in incredibly capital-intensive closed environment systems by necessity, trying to grow stuff outside will get it contaminated with Tiberium, it's all sealed vertical farms and aquaponics and Tilapia tanks or whatever.
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Ah so a combo of lack of capital goods, chips and more people to feed is what has eaten our food surplus.
 
Crazycryodude said:
If people start actually starving and not just requiring rationing you can just... eat bamboo, it's a perfectly good food crop and our people are smart enough to repurpose the farms if it really gets that desperate. There's no risk of famine, there's risk of rationing at worst, and only for a few months tops. Our agriculture is the most capital-intensive that agriculture has ever been in history, those aquaponics bays can't be run by hand they need all sorts of fancy electronics and machinery, a capital goods collapse is one of the few things that might ACTUALLY cause an ACTUAL famine when food infrastructure starts breaking down and can't be replaced. Staving off the capital goods collapse is also staving off agricultural and everything else collapse, I think it's higher priority than avoiding breaking out the ration books again.

And again, if things get to actual starvation risk territory you can just eat bamboo instead of turning it into paper, it's a crazy versatile plant. There wasn't mass starvation when we were at low negatives of food in the past, I don't expect there to be if we end up back there again in the future.
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You don't seem to grasp the ramifications if we start asking people to eat bamboo-fungus bars. And I'd need a QM citation to believe that our food shortage will go away by completing Christchurch. It might be a contributing factor, but it seems more likely that we're simply not producing enough to feed everyone in the Yellow Zones a proper meal. More Capital Goods production isn't going to turn into more Food production unless we put in the dice and resources to make it so.
 
I never said that Christchurch would solve the food shortage I said that the capital goods crisis is also an agricultural capital crisis, and capital goods collapse is agricultural collapse. People won't be happy if we need to restart rationing, but I would much prefer to tank a -10 hit to political support over having all those shiny new aquaponics bays we crash-built fall apart and cause an actual famine because we hit the critical collapse point that bamboo was supposed to help stave off.
 
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My argument for bamboo over aquaponics is not now and never has been that more capital goods will instantly and magically translate into more food, it's that stopping the capital goods collapse (which bamboo is explicitly tagged as doing) is also stopping a looming agricultural collapse, which is inherently a subset of capital goods. I would rather tank minor shortages and rationing in the short term over the entire supporting infrastructure falling apart in the medium term leading to an actual famine and not just political inconvenience.
 
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Bamboo doesn't do anything to stop or reverse the capital goods crisis. It just delays it. My plan finishes Christchurch Tool Plant and puts dice into North Boston Chip Fabrication and Chemical Precursor Plants. If Bamboo wasn't competing with Food I'd consider doing it too just to be safe, but I'd rather avoid opening up yet another crisis while we're still trying to solve the current one. (And we can do Bamboo next turn if we need to, anyways.)
 
Ithillid said:
Also people eating more/better. It is not at the point of being critical yet, but is likely to be a continuing problem.
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So something we can weather for a turn but not something we want to push. This also means agri is now one of the constant dice usage categories. Well good thing we are increasing our income this turn.


As for bamboo- I do not want to spend free dice on it as those are dice not being used on actual capital goods projects (if boston phase 2 is the same as manchester it is + cap goods and +++ consumer). Also going 5 dice on boston means fewer dice to finish phase 2 next turn and thus more dice we can put on the follow ups to Christchurch Tool Plant. And as we were told finishing cap good projects pushes back the collapse and if we can keep on knocking out cap good projects we can avoid the collapse. Chemical though I am leery as that would drop us to + energy so that any sabotage is going to send us into a shortage.

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Derpmind said:
--[] Christchurch Tool Plant 201/300: 3 dice 45R 63.5%
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This is 91.78% to finish with 3 dice at +6 to the dice, not sure if you maybe only put in 2 dice?
 
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The bamboo buys us multiple turns of time to finish more capital goods project, it could very easily be the difference between staving off the collapse long enough to get ahead of it with more factories vs. coming up a few months short and seeing cascading failures. My plan finishes Christchurch too, and does more for Boston. Admittedly it doesn't touch the chemical plants but delaying a ++ by a turn to buy multiple turns of runway is almost assuredly worth it, getting a ++ from the chemical plants one turn earlier would be nice but it's not a critical priority like the chip fabs and tooling plants are imo.

I can even rearrange the budget and LCI sector to work on the chemical plants instead of toy plants too. I don't think it's worth it compared to the toy plants in terms of ROI and politics but I could make the numbers work no problem if people really wanted that.
 
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Crazycryodude said:
The bamboo buys us multiple turns of time to finish more capital goods project, it could very easily be the difference between staving off the collapse long enough to get ahead of it with more factories vs. coming up a few months short and seeing cascading failures. My plan finishes Christchurch too, and does more for Boston. Admittedly it doesn't touch the chemical plants but delaying a ++ by a turn to buy multiple turns of runway is almost assuredly worth it, getting a ++ from the chemical plants one turn earlier would be nice but it's not a critical priority like the chip fabs and tooling plants are imo.

I can even rearrange the budget and LCI sector to work on the chemical plants instead of toy plants instead too. I don't think it's worth it compared to the toy plants in terms of ROI and politics but I could make the numbers work no problem if people really wanted that.
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2 dice on Chirstchurch is 63.45% also you have 4 dice on boston where if search is not failing me phase 2 is 150 as well so that is not the max investment we can have. And Christchurch finishing opens up more, in addition we were told that finsihing cap good projects pushes off the collapse and if we can do that well enough we can avoid the collapse.

Derpmind said:
I knew I'd screw up somewhere doing the plan so quickly. Thanks.
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Yeah I went back and did the numbers for my plan and was wondering why your percentage on that action was so off from mine given we both had 3 dice on it
 
Christchurch with 2 dice is a 75% chance to complete with an omake which is good enough for me, and the only way to get 3 dice on it is by taking a die off of Boston which isn't worth it to take progress off a staged project where overkill just rolls over to potentially risk major overkill on a project with no rollover. I will not be taking Free dice out of Bureaucracy to put in HI, the Services security sweep is important as is the budget horse trading and one of them would have to get cut.

I know you disagree on doing it at all but the political support reward for voluntarily giving up our budget is going to get progressively lower as we get closer to the next Parliamentary budget session until eventually the politicians just take some without asking and we get nothing in return. I'm pretty sure this is our last turn to get the full +10 reward (especially for Granger who is normally dogshit terrible at getting support) so I want to do it while we can still get praise for it.
 
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[X] Plan Agri Crisis
-[X] Infra 1/6 15R +6
--[X] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 2) 181/200: 1 die 15R 88%
-[X] HI 3/3 +3 free 90R +6
--[X] Christchurch Tool Plant 201/300: 3 dice 45R 91.8%
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 1) 0/150 3 dice 45R 64.7%
-[X] LC Ind 2/3 30R +6
--[X] Chemical Precursor Plants 0/200 2 dice 30R 0.9%
-[X] Agri 3/3 +2 free 50R +6
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays 0/200 5 dice 50R 89.7%
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 120R +26
--[X] Blue Zone Perimeter Outposts (Phase 2) 72/150 2 dice 40R 97%
--[X] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 2) 54/100 1 die 15R 81%
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 3) 136/200 2 dice 60R 99.5%
--[X] Tiberium Environmental Impact Reporting 0/80 1 die 5R 47%
-[X] Orbital /3 R +6
-[X] Services 3/3 10R +21
--[X] Primary Schooling 194/300: 2 dice 10R 80.5%
--[X] Security Reviews 1 die DC60 89.2%
-[X] Military 1/3 10R +1
--[X] Field Artillery Development 0/40 1 die 10R 62%
-[X] Bureau 3/3 0R +6
--[X] Security Reviews: Services (2 Dice + 1 Services Die) DC60 89.2%
--[X] Reallocate Resources to other departments 1 die

I didn't see our Food running out so quickly, but it is. I don't want yet another crisis happening in the middle of our current one, let alone one that can so clearly be blamed on us for not doing more agriculture ahead of time. Luckily, the price to fix it this turn is one we can afford. This plan still finishes Christchurch and makes progress on Boston; we were never going to finish Boston this turn but (since Phase 2 will be 0/300) it will at worst take 4 more Free Dice to finish next turn, and might take only 3 or even 2 Free Dice instead.

Meanwhile, in other areas, this plan: Finishes Yellow Zone Reconstruction, progresses the Chemical Precursor Plants for more Capital Goods, will likely get us between 50 to 75 more Resource Income from Tiberium, starts the Tiberium Environmental Impact Reporting, finishes Primary Schooling, and does a Security Review of our most suspicious department. And with a bit of luck building the factories for Field Artillery will be a cheap improvement next turn as well.

Edit: Added in a die on Reallocate Resources because this is our last turn to do so for maximum +PS.
 
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[X] Plan Tools, Chips, Food and Tiberium
Infra 2/6 35 R +6
-[X] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 2) 181/200 1 dice 15 R 88.00%
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 1) 100/300 1 dice 20 R 0%
HI 3/3+5 free 120 R +6
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 1) 0/150 5 dice 75 R 98.17% Phase 1, 0.33% Phase 2
-[X] Christchurch Tool Plant 201/300 3 dice 45 R 91.78%
LC Ind 3/3 15 R +6
-[X] Yellow Zone Workshops 0/150 3 dice 15 R 64.73%
Agri 3/3 30 R +6
-[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays 0/200 3 dice 30 R 28.4%
Tiberium 4/6 85 R +26
-[X] Blue Zone Perimeter Outposts (Phase 2) 72/150 1 dice 20 R 49.00%
-[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 3) 136/200 2 dice 60 R 99.45%
-[X] Tiberium Environmental Impact Reporting 0/80 1 dice 5 R 47.00%
Orb 0/3 0 R +4
Services 3/3 10 R +21
-[X] Primary Schooling 194/300 2 dice 10 R 80.47%
Military 3/3 30 R +1
-[X] Sonic Mobile Artillery Vehicle Development 0/40 1 dice 10 R 62.00%
-[X] Point Defense Battery Development 0/40 1 dice 10 R 62.00%
-[X] Field Artillery Development 0/40 1 dice 10 R 62.00%
Bureau 3/3 Free 0 R +6
-[X] Security Review (Services) 2 dice 60 DC 89.19%
-[X] Reallocate Resources to other departments, 1 dice (not rolled)

Free 5/5

325/325

Overall this is trying to reduce the fire that is our capital good situation while also keeping tiberium, food and military fires from getting worse. I believe that going full free dice on boston is our best bet as that lets us invest 8 dice into HI next turn to finish boston phase 2 and work on the next cap good project that opens up from Christchurch finishing.

1 dice on Yellow Zone phase 2 to finish that project, 1 dice on rail link to chip away so we can finish it next turn for a logistics boost given we are reducing logistics with glacier mining. 3 dice on Tool plant to finish it and 5 dice on boston to try and get as far into phase 2 as we can. 3 dice on yellow zone workshops so that we 1) show some support to yellow zone development 2) open up further projects and at 5R fairly cheap the + consumer good to chip away at that defict is nice bonus. For agri 2 dice on aquaponics to hopefully finish next turn for more food, 1 dice on bamboo so we can finish it off next turn to keep cap goods from being a problem before we can fix it. 1 on blue zone for a chance at mitigation (bit of income is nice as that is a school or yz workshop dice), Glacier mining because we need that income and bad, 5 r on environmental to chip away at it. Military do not want to go idle so went with 3 of the cheapest projects (nothing is below 10 R). Field Artillery would play well with all the outposts we are setting up. Sonic Artillery for tiberium pushes by zocom, and PD as suggested to have defenses improved. Bureau try and clear another department. 2 dice on schools to try and finish that off.

Edit- moved 1 dice to reallocate resources since the reward drops to +5 PS next turn, should still have enough of an income boost to activate additional dice and grow our income each turn along with mitigation.
 
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[X] Plan Delay The Collapse
-[X] Free: 5/5
-[X] YZR 1 dice
-[X] Christchurch 3 dice
-[X] Boston 4 dice
-[X] Chemical Precursors 3 dice
-[X] Bamboo 4 dice
-[X] Glacier 2 dice
-[X] Intensification 2 dice
-[X] Environmental Impact 1 die
-[X] BZ Outposts 1 die
-[X] Comsat 1 Fusion die
-[X] Primary Schooling 2 dice
-[X] Income Redistribution 2 dice
 
[X] Plan Share the Wealth
Infrastructure (6 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 2), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Blue Zone Residential Construction (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Heavy Industry (3 dice + 4 Free)
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 1), 4 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Christchurch Tool Plant, 3 dice (45 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice)
-[X] Toy Plants, 2 dice (10 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Bamboo Paper Works, 3 dice (30 Resources)
Tiberium (6 dice)
-[X] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 2), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 3), 1 die (30 Resources)
-[X] Experimental Tiberium Treatment Labs, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Environmental Impact Reporting, 1 die (5 Resources)
Orbital Industry (3 dice) (1 fusion lift die)
-[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 1), 1 fusion die (10 Resources)
Services (3 dice)
-[X] Primary Schooling, 2 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Security Reviews (Services), 1 die (not rolled)
Military (3 dice)
-[X] Railgun Refits, 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Field Artillery Development, 1 die (10 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice + 1 Free)
-[X] Security Reviews (Services), 2 dice
-[X] Reallocate Resources to other departments, 2 dice (not rolled)
Total cost: 320 Resources, 5 remaining




We can argue in circles for days about the minutiae of dice allocations, just read the past few pages of the thread if you're interested in that. The thing that makes this one really stand out in my opinion is voluntarily reallocating resources to other departments. It gets us out of the political support danger zone we've been in ever since hiring the Qatar Loyalists, it makes the rest of the government like us more, it lets the military hire more manpower to actually man all those forts we're making them build, and it lets us look like the good guy team player before the politicians start taking a scalpel to our budget. Which they definitely WILL if we wait long enough, everyone else is massively underfunded (most immediately pressing would be the military budget but all the rest of the government too) and we have by far the largest budget available for them to make cuts in.
 
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Void Stalker said:
[X] Plan Tools, Chips, Food and Tiberium
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 1) 0/150 5 dice 75 R 98.17% Phase 1, 39.92% Phase 2
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Phase 2 is going to be a 0/300 project, meaning finishing Phase 1 and 2 in the same turn takes 450 progress total. As such, the chance for 5 dice on Boston to finish Phases 1 and 2 is only 0.33%, not nearly 40%
 
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