Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
We can get our own though TCN with just 7 Scrin techs, it will take a while though. Also after we get the prototype orbital habitation and possibly moon habitation we can start sending thousands up relatively easily we just need to flood resources to building the habitation.
We know it will work but the people we answer to only know Kane as a worse hitler so I don't see how they will let us go with it on Kane's word that it will work.
- Location
- colombia
Why?
The TCN is literally a holy grial to save all of us
If on top of that kane fuck ups to another planet then its even better
Like i hate nod as any of you guys
But our goal isnt the total destruction of NOD but saving earth,ergo agreeing to the TCN takes priority over trolling kane
- Location
- Cara Fahd
[X] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Red Zone Lines + Predators + Unions
-[X] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 120R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 336/450 2 dice 20R 77%
--[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 225/360 1 Tib die 1 Infra die 40R 77%
--[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 0/160 1 Tib die 2 Infra dice 60R 92%
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 90R
--[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 150/350 3 dice 60R 70%
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 64/1200 2 dice 30R (2/16 median chance)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 61/360 4 dice 80R 36%
-[X] Agriculture 3/3 dice 50R
--[X] Entari Deployment 0/200 2 dice 40R 11%
--[X] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (phase 4) 44/160 1 die 10R 15%
-[X] Tiberium 5/5 +1 free dice 90R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) 130/300 2 dice 40R 65%
--[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 2 dice 50R 98%
--[X] Chicago Planned City 1 die
--[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City 1 die
-[X] Orbital Industry 3/3 dice 70R
--[X] Gravitic Drive Development 20/60 1 die 30R 91%
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 183/385 2 dice 40R 10%
-[X] Services 2/4 dice 20R
--[X] Fashion development houses 89/225 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Military 5/5 +4 free dice 140R
--[X] High Efficiency Heat System Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 0/210 1 die 20R (1/3 median chance)
--[X] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 0/240 3 dice 30R 30%
--[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban) 148/200 1 die 20R 79%
--[X] Laser Point Defense Systems Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Bureaucracy 3/3 +1 free die
--[X] Expand Union Support 4 dice 95%
Total cost: 650/605R 60R Reserve, 6/6 Free Dice
Posting this way too late perhaps, but here's a significant alternative to the leading plans:
-[X] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 120R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 336/450 2 dice 20R 77%
--[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 225/360 1 Tib die 1 Infra die 40R 77%
--[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 0/160 1 Tib die 2 Infra dice 60R 92%
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 90R
--[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 150/350 3 dice 60R 70%
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 64/1200 2 dice 30R (2/16 median chance)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 61/360 4 dice 80R 36%
-[X] Agriculture 3/3 dice 50R
--[X] Entari Deployment 0/200 2 dice 40R 11%
--[X] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (phase 4) 44/160 1 die 10R 15%
-[X] Tiberium 5/5 +1 free dice 90R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) 130/300 2 dice 40R 65%
--[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 2 dice 50R 98%
--[X] Chicago Planned City 1 die
--[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City 1 die
-[X] Orbital Industry 3/3 dice 70R
--[X] Gravitic Drive Development 20/60 1 die 30R 91%
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 183/385 2 dice 40R 10%
-[X] Services 2/4 dice 20R
--[X] Fashion development houses 89/225 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Military 5/5 +4 free dice 140R
--[X] High Efficiency Heat System Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 0/210 1 die 20R (1/3 median chance)
--[X] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
--[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 0/240 3 dice 30R 30%
--[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban) 148/200 1 die 20R 79%
--[X] Laser Point Defense Systems Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Bureaucracy 3/3 +1 free die
--[X] Expand Union Support 4 dice 95%
Total cost: 650/605R 60R Reserve, 6/6 Free Dice
Posting this way too late perhaps, but here's a significant alternative to the leading plans:
- RZ Containment Lines to gain more income (and 15R unused this turn to boost next turn instead.) As you can see by the current plans, we can blow through that 60R reserve in just one turn. So we still need more income. Containment Lines gives us another income boost for next turn and give us +3 RZ mitigation.
- Finally deploying the Predator refit. It's nice and all to develop so many new refits at once, but if we don't use them, they don't do anything. I'm not happy leaving our Predators un-upgraded and still vulnerable to many threats even though this program has been around since Q3 2050. Plus our Ground Forces are still only at "Decent" confidence; they could use more deployments. Let's get it done already.
- Unions! Supporting more cooperatives is great, but not all our businesses are going to be cooperatives. Better support for Unions, meanwhile, affects all workers, everywhere. It's the more difficult political reform for a reason. Redirecting a free die for Unions isn't cheap, but I'd like to do them now when it's possible. Meanwhile Cooperative Focus don't require any free dice, so we can do them at our convenience whenever we get a couple more PS projects done. But Unions aren't nearly so easy to do
1. We can make our own TCN it just takes some time, something that we have because of our choices and if it takes too long we are already on our way to evacuating portions of the planet.
2. Kane wants the TCN for his own plans, why would we want to help him?
3. Twilight killed the series so we wouldn't know but if he leaves then what is stopping him from coming back and killing us with a massive army/fleet of highly advanced aliens because we stood in his way?
4. We might know what the TCN does but the parliament and GDI high command has no idea what it does/could do. If they did know that it could control tiberium why would they go along with Kane and help him? He is the direct cause of millions of deaths in their perspective.
If we do housing grants, it is possible that they will cost logistics. Just like we get other costs with the grants we already have, with no control over when it happens.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have to get lucky on the dice rolls as well. The number of techs we can get from each successive Scrin Tech projects is reduced by one if I remember correctly.
- Location
- Africa
he needs the GDI to build the TCN but as long as the GDI isn't desperate they won't trust him enough to build it
so Kane's options would be as follows
-first he could wait for the Tiberium to mutate and GDI's containment to start failing , GDI would need to have researched the relevant Tiberium management Scirn tech to overcome this
-second Kane could try and induce Tiberium mutations rather than wait , GDI would deal with it same way as in the first option but it would be race were we have to constantly keep upgrading our Tiberium management tech in response to each new round of mutations
-third Kane could decide to force GDI's hand to desperation by doing his damnest to spread Tiberium and undermine or undo abetment , the only way to stop this would be all out war with GDI going after Nod with such ferocity and single mindedness that Nod would have to dedicate all of its resources ,effort and time towards staying alive rather that causing the Tiberium problem to get worse
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Derpminds plan basically has everything I want to support right now so
[X] Plan Red Zone Lines + Predators + Unions
on the theoretical crossover side. I am super interested to see what Element zero and the Mass effect do to tiberium. We might see two completely incompatible systems. Like what would happen if a Forgotten got the bionic implants? or how does Tiberium work with negative mass?
So much science to do in that cross.
[X] Plan Red Zone Lines + Predators + Unions
on the theoretical crossover side. I am super interested to see what Element zero and the Mass effect do to tiberium. We might see two completely incompatible systems. Like what would happen if a Forgotten got the bionic implants? or how does Tiberium work with negative mass?
So much science to do in that cross.
Didn't know that, but that still leaves us with the GTFO option.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
If we're talking about taking the canon deal with Kane for the TCN? Much less take it? I'd like to see less moral grandstanding about the Blue Zone first and Freemarket parties. I don't particularly care for either but the hypocrisy of taking a deal with history's greatest mass murder? Even if some of those mega deaths are due to omission of facts? While dunking on minority parties in the legislature for their moral failings? Is going to be grating.
If we're gonna shake hands with the devil that's fine but I don't want to hear how we're on the side if the angels while doing it. If trends look good? I'd much prefer rejecting the TCN and only take it if we're looking at immediate extinction. I'd say initiating war would be preferable then letting Kane loose wherever he plans on going.
If we're gonna shake hands with the devil that's fine but I don't want to hear how we're on the side if the angels while doing it. If trends look good? I'd much prefer rejecting the TCN and only take it if we're looking at immediate extinction. I'd say initiating war would be preferable then letting Kane loose wherever he plans on going.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This was so awesome. Can I be platonically in love with you? 🥰 You just described everything I consider wrong with every ME fanfic that has a FCW and a Council-member Humanity.
- Location
- The Underdark
If I go to Mass Effect,
1. It is far from certain that you will run into the Turians.
2. The result of Third Contact can be peaceful, can be cold war, can be outright hostile.
Mechanically, it will be handled as a series of nested rolls, first to actually have contact, then who it is with, then scale, then how well it goes. Each step narrowing down the possibilities.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have nothing against Citadel races themselves. I have everything against the dumb system they set up in the Galaxy. Which I can lay blame for on the Pre-2008 Crisis Capitalist Zeitgeist culture of "Laissez faire über alles" at Bioware, and with all of that how the Citadel was set up to be an Alien Euro-America, even then the conservative commentators had been screeching about lesbian porn in ME1.
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1) We are very far from guaranteed to get the technologies required to build a bootleg version of the TCN. Also, said version would almost certainly be less effective/efficient/safe than the version Kane gets from the Tacitus.
2) Because not doing so means we have to evacuate Earth, or die.
3) What if he has an army of flying monkeys ready to conquer the Earth? What if we have to evacuate the Earth on the back of giant space whales? This isn't an point that can be argued against, because there's no way to evaluate how likely any of those possibilities are.
4) The first step, once we get the plans for the TCN, will be to study them until we know what it will do. Please don't assume everyone in-setting becomes stupid when it's convenient to your argument.
Regarding Mass Effect, and its possible role as a crossover setting for a years-in-the-future sequel: Can we please assume that Ithillid will act like the intelligent guy he is, and will treat both settings with respect, but also make changes as needed to get things to work?
In other words, any discussion about how X, Y, and Z elements are fanon or canon is a derail, because it's not relevant to either this quest or the sequel.
If Kane does that, I doubt accepting any method to control Tiberium spread from him will even be an option.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's going to lock down a lot of our Infrastructure dice, though. We need at least two rounds of Blue Zone arcologies, costing roughly 20 Infrastructure dice in addition to 300 Resources; the Housing grants would cost ~240 Resources and no dice to resolve the problem over the same four-year period. Duplexes aren't much better and may be worse on net, because of the cost of the required mandatory Logistics projects to support them... plus they're still 'bad old suburbs,' so to speak.
So either this turns into a crushingly expensive project that dominates our entire Infrastructure budget for at least a year of this or the next Four Year Plan... Or we sling the problem over to Housing Grants and it gradually goes away on its own over the next four years or so while we build much cheaper Yellow Zone arcologies to resolve whatever elements of this involve Yellow Zone residents.
That's the thing, we have housing in the Blue Zones, it's just a lot of it is crappy. Upgrading Blue Zone housing means building either
1) Duplexes or
2) Arcologies or
3) Housing grants.
Duplexes are dirt cheap in and of themselves, but come with a bloodcurdlingly high --Logistics cost for each 180-Progress round of construction, so there's a "hidden" cost of having to expend multiple Orbital or Infrastructure or even Heavy Industry dice to recover the lost Logistics point.
Arcologies are frickin' expensive in dice investment, in that we're looking at multiple rounds of 600-point project to complete at 15 Resources per die.
Housing grants are in practice the cheapest option for us because they just spend the resources and let things tick over indefinitely.
I don't mind delaying that... but I don't think it'll change much mechanically. If anything it might make the grant projects marginally more expensive. Because all else being equal, it may take more of a investment to keep the housing-building enterprises afloat if they're operating under more restrictive rules with fewer opportunities to garner profit.
This is not me opposing the co-op/union system, to be clear, it's just that as a matter of basic reality, if the problem with capitalism is all the shit that capitalists do in the name of profit, then shutting that shit down MAY very well make things less profitable than they would otherwise be, necessitating more state investment to make the same things happen.
Yeah, but it's an issue we want to watch out for. Unless we achieve miracles on the housing front within the next six turns (and I am not expecting it, since we'd practically have to do gigantic meme-plans throwing Free dice and 100+ Resources per turn at arcology construction)...
Well, unless we achieve miracles, a lot of voters will be pressuring their representatives to extract promises from us about better housing when it comes time to begin the Third Four Year Plan. And not just the Initiative Firsters and Free Marketeers, though notably they're the ones who probably explicitly won elections on promises to hold our feet to the fire on housing quality.
The Socialist Party did us a favor, from a certain point of view, by stumping for arcology construction back in '54 and motivating us to at least blunt the edge of the problem while making us more clueful about it.
[takes breath]
Okay, you had me worried there. I kind of got the idea that he didn't have much going for him, or wasn't going to gain much going for him, and that there'd be no way for us to remedy the problem.
Instead, he's already adequate and we can hopefully groom our successor to at least present him as a strong candidate, which is good enough.
Assuming that Ithillid doesn't just straightforwardly make GDI!Humanity higher-tech and 'stronger' without changing much of anything else, and arguably even then, there may be considerable advantages among the Council races in manufacturing and machinery. Tiberium solves your problems of "where do all the raw materials come from," and GDI is reasonably sophisticated about robotics and VI's, but there's more to it than that.
Because this would be a very unpopular move among the majority of the human race, which is threatened by tiberium and may not really accept our claim that we totally have the situation under control.
The "evacuate to space" plan is not something anyone really wants to do, is the thing. Very few humans want to evacuate Earth if we don't have to, and it would be nearly impossible for us to save everyone simply because there are so many areas effectively cut off from our reach. It's not that we can't, it's that it's very much "this is our Plan C, and even if Plan A fails we'd spend a long time thinking about Plan B before pursuing Plan C."
...
And making our own TCN would require us to either:
1) Recover the Tacitus (unlikely since Kane has a literally invulnerable citadel to hide it in, unless we roll lucky and one of the Scrin techs is "how to switch off Threshold tower invulnerability from the outside")
2) Discover several specific Scrin techs, when we only get a limited number of actual Scrin tech research rolls per plan and aren't actually going to get the chance to gain every tech on the list before our opportunities run out, among other things because realistically there is only so much Scrin hardware still in working order and our scientific community is only so large.
So (1) boils down to "gigantic military investment" followed by "hope Kane does a stupid," while (2) boils down to "see if we can win big in a gacha game."
You're absolutely right about the lack of trust, but I think what it's going to come down to is GDI's authorities deciding how to handle this; Seo is likely to have limited influence on the actual decision though not no influence. The probable outcomes are:
1) Tell Kane to go fuck himself. This basically commits us to:
1a) Pursuing orbital evacuation very aggressively, because we have no assurance of being able to control tiberium on the Earth's surface without the TCN.
1b) Fighting a Fourth (and potentially Fifth) Tiberium War against a full-sized, Kane-led Nod with all his weird masterstroke shit going on, because we've just told Kane in so many words that he can't get what he wants by fighting us. Which means his only hope of success, and possibly even long-term survival, is to just straight-up conquer us and hope to capture enough industrial assets to build the TCN on his own.
2) Agree to Kane's offer, but with conditions. This may well include demands such as:
2a) A systematic campaign to rout out any Nod factions that won't accept the cease-fire before we start construction, so that we don't have (as many) crazy assholes popping up at random and harassing us while we're trying to do a giant global infrastructure program.
2b) A prolonged period of GDI scientists independently examining the designs and/or testing prototypes before actually constructing and spooling up the whole system. For this purpose it helps that we have more and better tiberium scientists and Scrintech engineers than canon GDI likely had, so we aren't nearly as much in the position of having to blindly build stuff to someone else's blueprints.
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- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Red Zone Lines + Predators + Unions
I gotta agree with q plan centered on more military refits actually being pushed into service, containment, and starting up that Mecca City so we don't lose the site entirely. It'll be a huge PR win that we should definitely consider going for.
I gotta agree with q plan centered on more military refits actually being pushed into service, containment, and starting up that Mecca City so we don't lose the site entirely. It'll be a huge PR win that we should definitely consider going for.
I just have a feeling that the first gdi ambassador to the council is kind of going up flatly tell them that we don't trust them and might not ever because of are past and how their system works and if they even have any ideas of trying to get tiberium from us that last one is probably going to cause a storm of anger that will make are guys never trust them?
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