Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
The military explicitly says that it can start a planned city and we do kind of need to start Chicago sooner rather than later, it is an additional source of abatement. Which is important considering the upcoming mutation roll.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes, but military production of what? It may well be that refits to the extensive Orca fleet and better anti-laser protection all around for our forces would be more beneficial than a second air superiority fighter production line, if we have to choose one or the other.
This isn't about cutting back on military spending, it's about which projects, and whether specifically electricity is something we want to pour into the military.
Certainly we're taking a gamble with a military push if we go with the current situation. The military is saying not "we're ready," but "we could probably get away with this as long as you don't ask for too much." They're still being pushed close to their limits, in other words. So yeah, I'd like to give things some time for shell production to stabilize at a level with meaningful stockpiles (more than one more quarter since we didn't complete Phase 3 yet), for the hydrofoils to kick in and improve our seaborne logistics so we don't need to rely as heavily on, for us to at least find out what the combat impact of the Apollos is, and for us to at least look into the next generation of upgrades because we promised the military development programs and not just factories. All of these things are important and can be begun if not completed without spending -4 Energy immediately.
Anything like the planned cities only makes sense when taking the long view and assuming they'll have a long period of time to contribute to our abatement efforts. If we anticipate tiberium mutation making it impossible to keep tiberium out of the Blue Zones in the near future, then we need to prioritize space because nothing else will make much of a difference. Conversely, if we anticipate having several more years for our efforts to expand the Blue Zones and create buffer territories, then a quarter or two either way doesn't make as much difference if the point is to make sure the military is adequately prepared to avoid disaster when we go out there and do the thing.
No, the military says it can perform limited offensives and that if GDI wants to push the front lines it expects to be able to cover something as geographically limited as a Planned City, but not anything greater without major issues. This is not the military saying 'yes, we can absolutely take the Kursk salient', this is the military saying 'if nothing goes more wrong than the usual we expect to be able to take Aachen'.
I just want to build up the military a bit more before we start fresh military adventures.
Something I've been thinking about lately is exactly how much of a military commitment Chicago is likely to be. I mean it is a change in overall GDI strategy as it involves establishing a permanent long-term base of operation in what is de facto Nod territory (i.e. a deep yellow zone), even if there is no Nod presence there at the moment. Nod kind of have to try to punish GDI for that to discourage similar boldness in the future, and successfully stopping the Chicago project would be a major propaganda victory. While the military is clearly willing to try, I'd feel better if, at the very least the Toronto Apollo factory and the last shell plant were done beforehand and ideally had had some time to spool up production. Remember, the military being willing to try is not the same as the military being confident and/or they believing it will be easy.
When Chicago happens, I'd suggest focusing on projects that can support military operations in North America when possible. Deploying MARVs to claim territory (or force Nod to divide their forces) in other areas of NA when Nod is focusing on the Great Lakes, prioritizing military factories in NA over elsewhere to more quickly reinforce the front etc. As the treasury, we have a surprising amount of indirect influence over the military, and I think that gets forgotten at times.
Also on a more meta level, I'm worried about the fact that one of the North American warlords is a named character. Conservation of detail suggests he's important, especially since there are very few other Nod commanders we know the name of, much less force composition and tech.
When Chicago happens, I'd suggest focusing on projects that can support military operations in North America when possible. Deploying MARVs to claim territory (or force Nod to divide their forces) in other areas of NA when Nod is focusing on the Great Lakes, prioritizing military factories in NA over elsewhere to more quickly reinforce the front etc. As the treasury, we have a surprising amount of indirect influence over the military, and I think that gets forgotten at times.
Also on a more meta level, I'm worried about the fact that one of the North American warlords is a named character. Conservation of detail suggests he's important, especially since there are very few other Nod commanders we know the name of, much less force composition and tech.
- Location
- USA
Toronto provides better coverage for Chicago, and from the text results we still could use more air force production. As it is I do have ablative in my list for the coming turn (and is one I am not cutting). Air superiority is going to be crucial and it takes time to spool up production and build up fighter wings to maintain that in multiple areas. Also why I am going to finish shell phase 3
I'm thinking on
[ ] Wolverine Mark 3 Deployment
The Wolverine Mark 3 as designed is a relatively simple refit job. Existing factories, with limited modification can switch over to producing the new platform, although they admittedly do require substantial allocations of new equipment, primarily for the railguns.
(Progress 0/150: 10 resources per die) (--- Energy)
It's deployment, meaning we can have light mechs in the field immediately after its done. Plus, having some ST faith is a bonus. Just trying to balance the energy requirements.
And considering going for [ ] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7 North, to set up for Chicago.
[ ] Wolverine Mark 3 Deployment
The Wolverine Mark 3 as designed is a relatively simple refit job. Existing factories, with limited modification can switch over to producing the new platform, although they admittedly do require substantial allocations of new equipment, primarily for the railguns.
(Progress 0/150: 10 resources per die) (--- Energy)
It's deployment, meaning we can have light mechs in the field immediately after its done. Plus, having some ST faith is a bonus. Just trying to balance the energy requirements.
And considering going for [ ] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7 North, to set up for Chicago.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Really we should take a MARV action in the area before starting construction if possible. Since they trip over bases? It'll give Nod some issues forward deploying. Then take MARV actions as it's being built. So that local Nod forces have to make some hard choices about what to attack.
Even though the flavor text makes it sound like we got rollover progress on a Yellow Zone MARV hub in central America I think we should let it sit half-completed for a while and do the North American Red Zone MARV hubs before finishing out that YZ hub. We really need the southern half of NA covered for our glacier mines, and the northern half for Chicago, the Central America hub is going to have to wait a bit imo.
- Location
- USA
Myomer works makes it less progression, lets us spread the energy cost out, and makes the deployed wolverines better. And that works for all the steel talon projects.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That's all a good point, and frankly a good reason to finish the Toronto factory. While this Gideon fellow doesn't seem to be doing too well at the moment, that won't last forever. Making sure we've got our shit together in general sounds good, too.
I should point out that the Orca refits are likely to be quite important to air superiority too, for three reasons:
1) Because they have a lot to do with whether we can do anything with our air power. The Orcas are both deficient in air-to-ground punch and defenseless against even casual air-to-air attack, and that's a bad combination even if our high performance jets sweep the skies.
2) Because Nod is perfectly capable of reverting to an asymmetric approach to air combat, relying heavily on surface-to-air missile and laser batteries to shoot down enemy planes. Making the Orca more formidable will help a lot with that.
3) Nod's high/low mix doctrine likely extends to air power. Their main air superiority fighter is the Venom, which is a relatively low-cost subsonic gunship. Easily shot down in droves by competently handled supersonic jets with long range air to air missiles (like the Apollo) as long as cloaking and ECM is out of the picture, but Venoms have good ECM (the Signature Generator probably cashes out that way on the strategic level), and can operate from relatively limited airfields.
It seems fairly likely that the way this would play out in warfare is that our expensive high-performance Apollos, even if we had as many of them as the Air Force wants, would sweep the skies over specific areas where we wanted air superiority... but that to preserve our Orca forces we'd need to keep them away from most other sectors of the front for fear of the omnipresent diffuse cloud of Venoms that kept popping up and attacking. Concentrated air superiority sweeps by the Apollos would be a relatively inefficient way to trim back the Venoms, operating as they do from stealthed bases and being as they are capable of impersonating much larger and more attractive targets to spread our forces thin.
To oppose Nod effectively, we need our relatively cheap frontline aircraft to be capable of at least seriously inconveniencing their relatively cheap frontline aircraft. Which means the Orca refit.
Furthermore, this is likely to be an area where we can rapidly improve the Air Force once we finish the development program, because actually completing the refits is likely to be similar to the point defense refits: a single project we can clear by throwing X dice at it, rather than building a production line and waiting ??? turns for it to produce an acceptable number of craft.
Yeah, the energy requirements are a bear, and as others point out the Myomer Works is a good place to start if we want to do that and other projects that would please the Steel Talons.
I started to modify voidwalkers plan to have Orca Refit Package Development instead of the Toronto plant and breweries for some more consumer goods in time for the election. but realized that with only a shell factory added there would be no support for Chicago so dropped those dice in favor of Rail Link Reconstruction, Ethnic Restaurant Program and having two dice on GDSS Philadelphia II as it is stage two they start to provide a bonus like enterprise did with the shuttles.
Infra 5/5 85R +12
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) 304/450 2 dice 30 R
-[] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) 40/200 1 dice 15R
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 82/240 2 dice 40 R
HI 5/5 +1 dice 70R +15 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) 247/??? 2 dice 20 R
-[] Fusion Power Prototype 45/200 2 dice 40 R
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2) 101/275 2 dice 10 R
LC 3/3 +1 free 30R +12
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors 116/400 1 dice 10 R
-[] Bulk Plastics Facilities 91/200 2 dice 20 R
-[] Security Review 1 dice
Agri 3/3 35R +12
-[] Vertical Farming projects 227/250 1 dice 15 R
-[] State Operated Breweries 0/125 2 dice 20R 64%
Tiberium 5/5 85R +30 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 3) 273/400 3 dice 45 R
Orbital 3/3 45R +12
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1+2) 59/90 2 fusion dice 40 R 10%?
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 1/??? 1 dice 15 R
Services 4/4 10R +27
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 65/350 1 dice 30 R
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program 0/150 2 dice 20R 68%
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs 155/200 1 dice 5 R
Military 5/5 + 3 dice 115R +12
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ 6 South (Super MARVs) 0/210 3 dice 60 R
-[] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3) 120/150 1 dice 10 R
-[] Ablat Plating Development 0/70 1 dice 10 R
-[] Advanced Myomer Works 0/125 2 dice 20 R
Bureau 3/3 +12
-[] Security Review (LC) 3 dice +1 LC 100%
Free 5/5
-1 HI, 1 LC, 3 Mil
510/480 +30 one time (510 total)
Energy
Q2: +8 Current -2 (arcology) -2 Vert Farming -2 Shell Phase 3 = +2
Q3: +2 YZ Light Industry +2 if Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension -2 for Orca Refit Package?
When Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) completes: -4 Apollo Factory
Infra 5/5 85R +12
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) 304/450 2 dice 30 R
-[] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) 40/200 1 dice 15R
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 82/240 2 dice 40 R
HI 5/5 +1 dice 70R +15 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) 247/??? 2 dice 20 R
-[] Fusion Power Prototype 45/200 2 dice 40 R
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2) 101/275 2 dice 10 R
LC 3/3 +1 free 30R +12
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors 116/400 1 dice 10 R
-[] Bulk Plastics Facilities 91/200 2 dice 20 R
-[] Security Review 1 dice
Agri 3/3 35R +12
-[] Vertical Farming projects 227/250 1 dice 15 R
-[] State Operated Breweries 0/125 2 dice 20R 64%
Tiberium 5/5 85R +30 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 3) 273/400 3 dice 45 R
Orbital 3/3 45R +12
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1+2) 59/90 2 fusion dice 40 R 10%?
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 1/??? 1 dice 15 R
Services 4/4 10R +27
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 65/350 1 dice 30 R
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program 0/150 2 dice 20R 68%
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs 155/200 1 dice 5 R
Military 5/5 + 3 dice 115R +12
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ 6 South (Super MARVs) 0/210 3 dice 60 R
-[] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3) 120/150 1 dice 10 R
-[] Ablat Plating Development 0/70 1 dice 10 R
-[] Advanced Myomer Works 0/125 2 dice 20 R
Bureau 3/3 +12
-[] Security Review (LC) 3 dice +1 LC 100%
Free 5/5
-1 HI, 1 LC, 3 Mil
510/480 +30 one time (510 total)
Energy
Q2: +8 Current -2 (arcology) -2 Vert Farming -2 Shell Phase 3 = +2
Q3: +2 YZ Light Industry +2 if Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension -2 for Orca Refit Package?
When Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) completes: -4 Apollo Factory
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- Location
- USA
At a glance, you have 6 infra dice, we only have 5, Chicago in my plan is using tib dice only. Also we are getting strong signs that we need to do perennial under agri
The entari fruit we just developed is a perennial vine, I wouldn't be surprised if the perennial bays option got upgraded/modified to produce more goodies with the entari built in from the start. Might get more expensive to go along with the larger benefits but even if nothing changes perennials are definitely up next on the list IMO because of the 8-turn lead time for the current option to hit full production. It has to get done within the next 3 turns (which means started now) if we want full credit for its production by the end of the Plan.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If the full progress amount rolled over, then the YZ hub will be a 66/105 project. Meaning it only needs to roll a 12 or higher to succeed. (27 without an omake.) 1 die 20R 89%, basically. So we could easily build the hub and the fleet next turn, or build two hubs two turns from now. E: Forgot we have a MARV fleet to build next turn.
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You are right removed a dice form Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) will decide where those are spend later a shame we do not know if Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing overflows to its followup else i put a dice on that.
Completing the hub might also provide a place for any overroll from the MARV fleet to go to if it does not complete this turn.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hmm, I'd like to make some adjustments.
1) First, switching out Breweries for Perennials. This is resource-neutral and we REALLY want to finish Perennials this year, so that it has time to fully take effect before the end of the current Four Year Plan. It's gonna be hard enough meeting our food targets if we do have that option fully ripen (pun intended) by the time the Plan ends.
2) To be quite candid, the Myomer Works project is good and important but not urgent as far as I can tell. We want the Steel Talons improvements and tech upgrades gated behind it, but there's a lot of other stuff that cashes out as much more immediate enhancement of our military. Meanwhile, there's something the conventional ground forces really want: machine guns for the Predator tank. I suspect we can finish that quickly and relatively easily, should we have the resolve to do it, so I'd like to branch out into that.
Infra 5/5 85R +12
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) 304/450 2 dice 30 R
-[] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) 40/200 1 dice 15R
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 82/240 2 dice 40 R
HI 5/5 +1 dice 70R +15 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) 247/??? 2 dice 20 R
-[] Fusion Power Prototype 45/200 2 dice 40 R
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2) 101/275 2 dice 10 R
LC 3/3 +1 free 30R +12
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors 116/400 1 dice 10 R
-[] Bulk Plastics Facilities 91/200 2 dice 20 R
-[] Security Review 1 dice
Agri 3/3 35R +12
-[] Vertical Farming projects 227/250 1 dice 15R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays 0/300 2 dice 20R
Tiberium 5/5 85R +30 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 3) 273/400 3 dice 45 R
Orbital 3/3 45R +12
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1+2) 59/90 2 fusion dice 40 R 10%?
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 1/??? 1 dice 15 R
Services 4/4 10R +27
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 65/350 1 dice 30 R
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program 0/150 2 dice 20R 68%
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs 155/200 1 dice 5 R (between 80% and 90%, I forget how omake bonuses work)
Military 5/5 + 3 dice 115R +12
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ 6 South (Super MARVs) 0/210 3 dice 60 R
-[] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Ablative Plating Development 0/70 1 dice 10 R 58%
-[] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 0/40 1 die 10R 88%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3) 120/150 1 dice 10 R 98%
-[] Advanced Myomer Works 0/125 1 dice 10 R
Bureau 3/3 +12
-[] Security Review (LC) 3 dice +1 LC 100%
Free 5/5
-1 HI, 1 LC, 3 Mil
510/480 +30 one time (510 total)
Energy
Q2: +8 Current -2 (arcology) -2 Vert Farming -2 Shell Phase 3 = +2
Q3: +2 YZ Light Industry +2 if Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension -2 for Orca Refit Package?
When Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) completes: -4 Apollo Factory
[/QUOTE]
The problem with this is that the Myomer Works text says that it has both military and economic affects, from the sounds of it not only will this open projects to improve the zone armour (as an example) which we can start rolling out to other parts of the military once we've finished the ZOCOM roll out.
But it will also open up HI/LI projects. I would expect we will see some nice capital goods projects (which we desperately need) and probably consumer goods projects based around prosthetics.
Let's stop putting it off because "Mechs aren't realistic meme", this is like the MARVs all over again.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not putting it off because "mechs aren't realistic." I'm putting it off because the ground forces, tired of losing main battle tanks to suicide bombers, have been asking us to bolt a machine gun to their tanks for the better part of a decade and we still haven't gotten around to it, even as we're discussing launching a serious bite-and-hold military operation to seize territory in a deep Yellow Zone.
We're already up to our eyeballs in good choices for Heavy and Light Industry; right now we're spoiled for choice. Having more options isn't inherently so great that it's worth hurrying up to unlock those options unless we have specific reason to think said options are transformational. Hell, fusion power IS transformational and we're still not going obsessively all-in on it, because there's a lot else to do.
So... looks like we'll be getting some very shiny new projects, so planbuilding may want to stay nebulous.
Such as (details tentative, as always):
Such as (details tentative, as always):
Ithillid on Discord said:
and BZ Power phase 2 being 550 progress for another +16 Energy.
- Location
- USA
Hmmm I assume Tidal is HI? Because +4 is very tempting to try and shock, maybe 4 dice on that and 2 on fusion? Yz and BZ can be started Q3 than since I doubt we can do BZ in full Q2 and we need some power generation Q2. I am surprised because we did not finish a lot so did not expect much in the way of new options beyond the next phase and the Entari followup.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Looking at the numbers, we really only need +2 Power in order to afford everything that's likely to complete (BZ Arcologies, Vertical Farms, Shell Plants, Toronto Apollo) when our current surplus is taken into account. So really, YZ Power Grid on its own would be enough to supply us right now, and it requires less RpD and Progress.
Still, Tidal Plants does sound like something we could rush to get afterwards. If it's similar to VSNKh Quest, Tidal Plants will use Infrastructure Dice, not HI Dice. If true, that'd make it a lot easier to free up Dice for it, though right now I want our Infra Dice on Arcologies and Fiber-Optics.
Still, Tidal Plants does sound like something we could rush to get afterwards. If it's similar to VSNKh Quest, Tidal Plants will use Infrastructure Dice, not HI Dice. If true, that'd make it a lot easier to free up Dice for it, though right now I want our Infra Dice on Arcologies and Fiber-Optics.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Tidal is in Infrastructure. (Would defeat the point if it was in HI alongside all the other HI power options.)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
While Derpmind is entirely right I still wanna say...
Within this particular quest, the project most similar to Tidal Plants would probably be the Run of River Campaigns that we did back in the first year or so of the quest. And those were an Infrastructure project. In general, stuff that's mostly about pouring concrete tends to be Infrastructure, while stuff that's mostly about the complicated mechanical guts that go inside the concrete shell is Industry. A tidal plant is dead simple compared to the nuclear reactors we've been building with Heavy Industry; it's just a lot of physical offshore construction to do.
In any case, oh hell yes is that attractive, frankly more so than working on the railroads which is what it looked like most people want for our next project after we finish Blue Zone Arcologies and Fiber Optics. It looks like they'd also be cheaper per die than Rail Links, freeing up 5 Resources per die rolled that we could use on something else, which is nice when we're often a bit resource-choked in setting up things like MARV construction and Scrin research.
- Location
- USA
Tidal is infra? Oh that changes a lot at the least we can get started on Tidal, maybe put two dice to have a chance to finish and if not finish phase 1 Q3 (I do want arcologies down this turn)
Edit- so I am looking to 3 or 4 dice YZ power, probably shift 1 free dice over to HI. Also drop the 1 dice on railnetworks for 1 on tidal so that we can finish tidal phase 1 Q3 (arcologies and fiber optics for consumer goods and housing and logistics should be finished first)
Tidal also being cheaper saves 5 R that can be used to upgrade a game dev dice to ethnic restaurant dice
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