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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Ithillid said:
To better defend themselves against NOD attack, many of the new residents have begun working with GDI soldiers to form home defense militias. Capable of little more than holding their walls, if even that, they have been reported to be highly motivated, and eager to learn from GDI troops. While the Ground Forces are still considering whether or not to accept or expand this kind of program, it is unlikely that they will turn them away. This seems to have emerged in reaction to the fortress towns turning away multiple smaller NOD raids and probing attacks. While none of these seemed to have the intention of doing more than acting as reconnaissance by fire.
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The history of the Vietnam War suggests that the motivation of home defense militias will rapidly crumble in the face of Nod attacks if we cannot reliably protect the Fortress Towns with regular GDI forces. The Fortress Towns seem to need shell plants to properly supply the artillery defenses. While it is tempting to build as many Fortress Towns as quickly as possible to spread our influence and to house as many people as possible, it is a terrible idea. If the Fortress Towns are not properly defended and GDI reinforcements are not reliable, the militias will quickly lose motivation to defend themselves in the case of even minor Nod attacks and the Fortress Towns will become free supply points for Brotherhood forces. The Fortress Town construction must not outpace our ability to defend them.

Ithillid said:
You went to Parliament with a whole long wishlist of items, and many of them were fairly intrusive. If you had beat the lowest you would be seeing a barely managed bill that was a very narrow set of regulations. With the second lowest, it would be a few items from your wishlist. Then on the one that you actually got, where it is about half the wishlist of major items and assorted lesser items.
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Would a mildly pro-worker proposal also been likely to have been cut down a lot or would have been easier to pass more intact? How would a free market friendly strongly pro-owner proposal with no enforcement been received in the GDI Parliament?
 
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Ithillid said:
To better defend themselves against NOD attack, many of the new residents have begun working with GDI soldiers to form home defense militias. Capable of little more than holding their walls, if even that, they have been reported to be highly motivated, and eager to learn from GDI troops. While the Ground Forces are still considering whether or not to accept or expand this kind of program, it is unlikely that they will turn them away. This seems to have emerged in reaction to the fortress towns turning away multiple smaller NOD raids and probing attacks. While none of these seemed to have the intention of doing more than acting as reconnaissance by fire.
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Kinda of hope the leadership doesn't let this pass by. This is a good sign if we can build on it. Well this and actually recruiting from the Yellowzone for the military. Get them to have some skin in the game with us.
 
BoredStudent1414 said:
Would a mildly pro-worker proposal also been likely to have been cut down a lot or would have been easier to pass more intact? How would a free market friendly strongly pro-owner proposal with no enforcement been received in the GDI Parliament?
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Mildly pro worker would have been generally less cut down, but also far less ambitious as a project. It would, even with the maximum, be little more than a couple of items from this wishlist (like the prohibition on right to work measures) but that would be it.
 
Hello everyone, I found yesterday this quest and truly I enjoy it very much :).

I would like to suggest that we add Helsinki C-35 Factories to our "to-do list" sooner than later, I believe that it could help us with the transport of food and other resources to the most faraway zones or help evacuation if we need it, or changes them to transports military parts or component to the mines or other things.
 
arkantos said:
Hello everyone, I found yesterday this quest and truly I enjoy it very much :).

I would like to suggest that we add Helsinki C-35 Factories to our "to-do list" sooner than later, I believe that it could help us with the transport of food and other resources to the most faraway zones or help evacuation if we need it, or changes them to transports military parts or component to the mines or other things.
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Welcome.

This is actually a good point. Unless I'm miss reading, a single round of Glacier Harvest will have us at = Logistics right? Or maybe +1. There are too many things that we need.
 
Scarecrow said:
Welcome.

This is actually a good point. Unless I'm miss reading, a single round of Glacier Harvest will have us at = Logistics right? Or maybe +1. There are too many things that we need.
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We're currently at Logistics +6, Glacier Mining will be -4. Add on the minuses from the Private Sector, and that will be at 0 or +1, so yeah. We do need to do another Logistics project pretty much immediately. The most effective option for that is probably Phase 3 of Urban Metros, since it gives +4 Logistics and is at 39/150. But the C-35 factories are a decent close second, especially since they provide +5 PS, which will be useful.
That said, a number of projects are changing, so we'll see what things look like.
 
Keep in mind that a lot of the mechanics do not necessarily interact well with the narrative. Having all the development happen in the Blue Zones may be more efficient for generating pluses, giving us big fat stacks of excess everything to soak costs with, that isn't going to make the Yellow Zones any happier with us even though they, logically speaking, would benefit from all the extra available resources they can theoretically call upon.
 
Hazard said:
Keep in mind that a lot of the mechanics do not necessarily interact well with the narrative. Having all the development happen in the Blue Zones may be more efficient for generating pluses, giving us big fat stacks of excess everything to soak costs with, that isn't going to make the Yellow Zones any happier with us even though they, logically speaking, would benefit from all the extra available resources they can theoretically call upon.
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They are seeing benefits, but look at the various Yellow Zone projects. It is not that they don't realize they can get better from having a blue Zone do it for them, it is that they are looking at the Haws (and to a lesser extent the other Blue Zone parties), and thinking "if one of them gets into control who is not as nice as Granger, how badly are we going to get fucked" And the answer that they have come to and lobby you for is to have their own industrial sectors, their own farms, their own power, so that they can't either be reduced to the status of colonies or worse yet cut off entirely.
 
Yellow Zone Industrial Sectors really is the crucial project we need to complete before the next election, isn't it?
 
Void Stalker said:
Yes, though we want to offset that with a cap good project
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It still means we're going to want to be throwing at least one dice at it basically every turn. As we're likely to still have only 3 dice in Light Industry, other areas needing free dice more and only 8 quarters before the next election. With 400 progress needed.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
It still means we're going to want to be throwing at least one dice at it basically every turn. As we're likely to still have only 3 dice in Light Industry, other areas needing free dice more and only 8 quarters before the next election. With 400 progress needed.
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It's generally more efficient for us to spend only a single turn on a given project.

Also, 400 progress is 8 dice with average rolls and no modifiers. Entirely possible within 3 turns.

Ithillid said:
They are seeing benefits, but look at the various Yellow Zone projects. It is not that they don't realize they can get better from having a blue Zone do it for them, it is that they are looking at the Haws (and to a lesser extent the other Blue Zone parties), and thinking "if one of them gets into control who is not as nice as Granger, how badly are we going to get fucked" And the answer that they have come to and lobby you for is to have their own industrial sectors, their own farms, their own power, so that they can't either be reduced to the status of colonies or worse yet cut off entirely.
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And it's very reasonable they come to that conclusion. It's a distinct risk, and both Director and Secretary Granger appear to be pretty damn nice to the Yellow Zones.

Not that the Yellow Zones haven't figured out that the Treasury's biggest interest in the Yellow Zones is 'produce tiberium', and the Director's interest is 'hamstring Nod and win the peace for a change'. The Treasury's interest being mostly on the economical side is probably part of why they want industrial sectors and farms; it makes the Yellow Zones far, far more valuable to GDI than just ponying up tiberium does.
 
Hazard said:
It's generally more efficient for us to spend only a single turn on a given project.
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I thought it was the complete opposite.

As far as I understand it's always more cost-efficient to spend less dice per turn over more time to ensure minimal chance of overflow, and the main reason for pushing for more dice at one time is to ensure a specific project is completed with the highest chances within that turn.

Seeing as how the [ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors produces only consumer goods while costing Power and Capital goods, I don't get why it needs to be prioritized any time soon. It's not as if a lack of consumer products was ever a main concern over other things such as the Capital shortage, the imminent shortage of Tiberium income along with processing limits, and all the ignored and overlooked military projects on the backlog to still fulfill in order to keep GDI safe from Nod.

Besides, the [ ] Civil Clothing Factories looks much better as an option for quicker and less costly source of consumer goods.
 
marids said:
I thought it was the complete opposite.

As far as I understand it's always more cost-efficient to spend less dice per turn over more time to ensure minimal chance of overflow, and the main reason for pushing for more dice at one time is to ensure a specific project is completed with the highest chances within that turn.

Seeing as how the [ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors produces only consumer goods while costing Power and Capital goods, I don't get why it needs to be prioritized any time soon. It's not as if a lack of consumer products was ever a main concern over other things such as the Capital shortage, the imminent shortage of Tiberium income along with processing limits, and all the ignored and overlooked military projects on the backlog to still fulfill in order to keep GDI safe from Nod.

Besides, the [ ] Civil Clothing Factories looks much better as an option for quicker and less costly source of consumer goods.
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We'll probably have to do the industrial zobes eventually, it will probably be an option the yellow zone list asks for.

Also Ithillid might change their mind but we're probably going to need to produce more consumer goods this plan and we're also probably going to have to make a lot of capital goods as well, so spending them won't be a problem.
 
marids said:
I thought it was the complete opposite.

As far as I understand it's always more cost-efficient to spend less dice per turn over more time to ensure minimal chance of overflow, and the main reason for pushing for more dice at one time is to ensure a specific project is completed with the highest chances within that turn.

Seeing as how the [ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors produces only consumer goods while costing Power and Capital goods, I don't get why it needs to be prioritized any time soon. It's not as if a lack of consumer products was ever a main concern over other things such as the Capital shortage, the imminent shortage of Tiberium income along with processing limits, and all the ignored and overlooked military projects on the backlog to still fulfill in order to keep GDI safe from Nod.

Besides, the [ ] Civil Clothing Factories looks much better as an option for quicker and less costly source of consumer goods.
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you want to have chances around 60+ percent of completition for normal projects,and 80%-90% for the ones that you want to pass in a single turn
 
SoHowAreYou said:
Also Ithillid might change their mind but we're probably going to need to produce more consumer goods this plan and we're also probably going to have to make a lot of capital goods as well, so spending them won't be a problem.
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[-] 60 points - A substantial wave of new and restored consumer goods production, either through grants, factories, or some combination of the two, is estimated to be enough to meet both indicated and unindicated demand, although those estimates may well be conservative (-5 PS)

[-] 75 points - A somewhat ambitious goal for the plan, it is aimed to produce small surpluses across many fields of consumer goods, ready for activities that can improve quality of life. While it will require some substantial effort from the treasury to make the goal, but it is overall both achievable and relatively politically popular

[-] 90 points - A substantially ambitious plan, a full 90 point development would bring back not only prewar luxuries, but also bring many of those luxuries into the yellow zones. While it would inherently define the plan, it is also something that should be popular across much of the political spectrum (+5 PS)
Bit of a spoiler, but these are likely to be the requirement options. I might include a -10 option for 30 consumer goods, but I am not sure yet.
 
Huh I'm leaning for the 75 point plan here so we can focus on other stuff as well instead of having to put all of our resources into this goal for most of the Plan.
 
Ithillid said:
[-] 60 points - A substantial wave of new and restored consumer goods production, either through grants, factories, or some combination of the two, is estimated to be enough to meet both indicated and unindicated demand, although those estimates may well be conservative (-5 PS)

[-] 75 points - A somewhat ambitious goal for the plan, it is aimed to produce small surpluses across many fields of consumer goods, ready for activities that can improve quality of life. While it will require some substantial effort from the treasury to make the goal, but it is overall both achievable and relatively politically popular

[-] 90 points - A substantially ambitious plan, a full 90 point development would bring back not only prewar luxuries, but also bring many of those luxuries into the yellow zones. While it would inherently define the plan, it is also something that should be popular across much of the political spectrum (+5 PS)
Bit of a spoiler, but these are likely to be the requirement options. I might include a -10 option for 30 consumer goods, but I am not sure yet.
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Honestly -10 seems a little low, both looking at the pattern of 5 PS for 15 consumer good increments and also since it's literally committing to not fulfilling even a conservative projection of demand.
 
marids said:
I thought it was the complete opposite.

As far as I understand it's always more cost-efficient to spend less dice per turn over more time to ensure minimal chance of overflow, and the main reason for pushing for more dice at one time is to ensure a specific project is completed with the highest chances within that turn.

Seeing as how the [ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors produces only consumer goods while costing Power and Capital goods, I don't get why it needs to be prioritized any time soon. It's not as if a lack of consumer products was ever a main concern over other things such as the Capital shortage, the imminent shortage of Tiberium income along with processing limits, and all the ignored and overlooked military projects on the backlog to still fulfill in order to keep GDI safe from Nod.

Besides, the [ ] Civil Clothing Factories looks much better as an option for quicker and less costly source of consumer goods.
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Spending 1 die on a project per project is resource efficient, but it's generally more important to make the project's results available. Having 3 projects all complete on turn 6 is not as beneficial for GDI as having turns 2, 4 and 6 each complete 1 project, even though it's effectively the same dice investment. After all, at turn 6 the projects that completed at turns 2 and 4 would've had 4 and 2 turns, respectively, to churn out their products and build up stockpiles, letting things work their way through the economy.


Also consumer goods are a political action thing. During the first Four Year Plan, GDI was in a shitload of trouble with an economy that was falling apart, so the population accepted, however reluctantly, that consumer goods weren't going to be a thing anytime soon. The second Four Year Plan however, the economy is rapidly setting itself up for a recovery, and the population wants to have stuff and services to spend the money it has upon.
 
Hm, the industrial grants are +/turn, right? That's good for 16 points... we'd have to make up the rest one way or another.
 
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