I am unconvinced about OSRCT before shipyards.
I'm guessing I missed the justification for delaying the already delayed shipyards at some point.

Main concern is the amount of energy needed to power the yards, simon's plan deliberately doesn't have a near certainty of finishing the next phase of fusion, as such there is a limit to how many Energy consuming projects the Canned Bean's plan go for as it would be bad if we had to initiate rolling blackouts. As such combined with the other energy consuming projects that are going to be finishing (Fertilizer -1, Freeze Dried Food, -2, Civilian Drones -2) thats a whole yard right there in energy. With the possible exception of Civilian drones, those are very important projects to complete relatively quickly.
 
Main concern is the amount of energy needed to power the yards, simon's plan deliberately doesn't have a near certainty of finishing the next phase of fusion, as such there is a limit to how many Energy consuming projects the Canned Bean's plan go for as it would be bad if we had to initiate rolling blackouts. As such combined with the other energy consuming projects that are going to be finishing (Fertilizer -1, Freeze Dried Food, -2, Civilian Drones -2) thats a whole yard right there in energy. With the possible exception of Civilian drones, those are very important projects to complete relatively quickly.
But 2 dice isn't enough to finish another shipyard.
 
We already have frigates under construction to run escort. But we need escort carriers to help provide extended ASW coverage since it looks like we need multiple Orcas to deal with subs give the AA subs NOD has rolled out.

Edit- And the conversions are already showing their shortcomings and they were supposed to be a bridge until we get the CVEs out.
We certainly do need both; the issue is complicated by the fact that if we finish a frigate yard tomorrow, it's going to do 3-4 waves of many many frigates in the time it takes a light carrier yard started at the same time to do two waves of about 4-6 light carriers.

Since one of the things limiting our surface fleet is the enemy's ability to drown our ships in saturation missile barrages, and the frigates have some of the best designs for using infernium laser point defense of anything in the fleet that now exists or is soon likely to exist... Well, that's on the table too.

If there is a deploy action than we can probably knock it out Q2 unless it is a lot of progress. Even then given the enclosed nature a lot of our upgrade paths are not going to help a lot in the tunnels.
I'm honestly anticipating something like 300-400 Progress at 5-10 R/die. Making rifles is basically light industry and very simple by GDI standards, but there's a huge amount of production and tooling that needs to be distributed to get the new rifles into the hands of the troops.

Our old "roll out more infantry equipment" actions from the First Plan were more like 60-100 Progress at 10 R/die, but those were mostly just "expand production of something you are already making quite a bit of, just not enough to equip the full TWIII infantry force, much of which you are demobilizing anyway."

Just refitting the Wolverine or Titan production lines took about 150 Progress, and I'm pretty sure there are a lot more rifle factories than Wolverine factories.

I am unconvinced about OSRCT before shipyards.
Energy budget management is a part of it.

I could write a MAXIMUM MURDERBOTE meme plan, but it'd be very significantly different. I'd have to, at minimum, sacrifice doing two dice on Anadyr (and we really should do that), so that we could put four dice on fusion power (to be more confident of completing the phase).

I'm guessing I missed the justification for delaying the already delayed shipyards at some point.
Because we're still on the hook for about a dozen dice worth of Space Force commitments plus ancillary odds and sods, and trying to do all of that in 2061Q3 or 'Q4 is going to be really ugly.

With the war situation winding down, it's relatively less likely to matter whether a specific set of light carriers are available in 2063Q1 or 'Q2 or 'Q3. Though 'Q3 is pushing it there, which is why my own actual "Canned Beans" plan draft series has, out of respect to @Void Stalker , shifted to almost entirely prioritize light carrier yards.

Let's not pretend retooling infantry small arm production lines is that major of a hurdle for us. It could easily require a project, but all we'd be doing is retooling, not crash production or major factory conversions.
I expect it to be cheap, in that all the new tooling is very simple and easy for us to make and doesn't involve tons of high performance heavy industry, exotic materials, and electronics (the usual reason why so many of our projects cost 20 R/die).

However, I also expect it to be a lot of work, because we're talking about replacing millions of rifles, the production lines for the ammunition they fire, the large stockpiles of existing ammunition, all the armorers' tools and training, and so on, and so on.

So I'm expecting a project that looks a lot like Ferro-Aluminum Armor Refit, in that it's got a very nice per-die price but the number of dice required makes us cringe.

But 2 dice isn't enough to finish another shipyard.
It actually is enough to give us a chance. But the thing is... if you look at the shipyard options we actually have, they are:

Carriers, Nagoya (probably 1 die)
Carriers, Dublin (probably 3-4 dice)
Carriers, New York (probably 3-4 dice)
Frigates, Seattle (probably 4 dice)

One die on Nagoya is a given; we'd be fools not to. If we throw two dice at every available shipyard, we don't finish the others barring good luck on Dublin or New York and almost certainly not both. And then we need to spend at least one die per turn on each of multiple yards in 2061Q2, and unless we start wastefully spamming dice we probably still don't finish them all.

So basically, working on more yards that we know are gonna take two or three turns to finish isn't necessarily better for us than working on fewer yards we can hope will finish this turn and have a good chance of getting the other two next turn or the turn after.'

If we're serious about doing a yard in one turn, we put three dice into a carrier yard and four into a frigate yard. This will usually get us up to where only one remaining "finisher die" is likely to be needed, and that only in cases of bad luck. If we're only throwing two dice at a yard, we have a much higher chance of needing a third die in the next turn and a fourth die in the turn after that... At which point we've spent 2-3 turns finishing a yard instead of 1-2. Not much practical difference in the long run.
 
Okay, here's that naval-focused, or rather naval-obsessed, plan draft. Observations:

1) This is a one-die Anadyr plan, which is bad. It means we won't have any chance of finishing the project next turn, but will almost certainly be far enough along that spending two dice in 2061Q2 has a fairly high risk of overkill. Which means that if the 2061Q2 roll, in turn, is unlucky, that we are much more likely to have an experience like the one we're having with the freeze-drying plants, of repeatedly rolling one die because we don't want to splurge for more, only for the project to drag out forever.

2) If the 4% chance of the fusion phase not completing happens, we are way into negative Energy. Unhealthily so.

3) Even if the fusion reactors complete, our Energy surplus is likely to shrink significantly.

4) I sacrificed hallucinogen countermeasures, zone defender modifications, and Skywatch.

5) But hey, at least the Navy will stop saying we never did anything for them!

...

Budget:
1020/1020 R
7/7 Free Dice

[] Draft Make More Murderbote
Infrastructure (+34) 6/6 Dice 100 R
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 92/200 (2 Dice, 60 R) (97% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 3+4+5) 72/160 (4 Dice, 40 R) (Phase 3, 97% chance of Phase 4, 18% chance of Phase 5)
Heavy Industry (+29) 5/5 Dice 130 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 8) 67/300 (3 Dice, 60 R) (96% chance)
-[] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 85/320 (1 Die, 50 R) (1/3 median)
Light and Chemical Industry (+24) 5/5 Dice 55 R
-[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 (1 Die, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 (4 Dice, 40 R) (74% chance)
Agriculture (+24) 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Dice 80 R
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 151/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (91% chance)
-[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1) 0/150 (2 Dice, 30 R) (63% chance)
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2+3) 38/150 (3 Dice, 30 R) (99% chance of Phase 2, 18% chance of Phase 3)
Tiberium (+39) 7/7 Dice + 1 Free Die 240 R
-[] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 1) (New) 0/600 (8 Dice, 240 R) (95% chance)
Orbital (+26) 6/6 Dice 120 R
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 102/1535 (3 Dice, 60 R) (3/17.5 median)
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 45/305 (2 Dice, 40 R) (96% chance of Phase 1, 12% chance of Phase 2)
-[] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 276/320 (1 Die, 20 R) (98% chance)
Services (+27) X/5 Dice 65 R
-[] 65 R WORTH OF SERVICES STUFF (Mad science gacha, hallucinogens, sports, ???)
Military (+26) 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 230 R
-[] Railgun Munitions Development 38/60 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Seattle) 0/300 (4 Dice, 80 R) (64% chance)
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 171/240 (1 Die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (New York) 0/240 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Dublin) 0/240 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
Bureaucracy 4/4 + EREWHON!!!
-[] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250 (4+E Dice) (96.1% chance of DC 250, 99.6% chance of DC 200)
 
Very much prefer trying to get the last frigate yard done along with a carrier yard instead of two carrier yards.

We need to stop missile spam. Ensure our conversions are as safe as we can make them till they're replaced.

Edit: Holy crap is plan murderbote over kill 😆
 
How does that square with issues like needing SADN?

Because seriously, Karachi is quite likely to trigger Nod at least considering going nuclear, since it's a clear attempt to start going on offensives again, even if not against most of the same warlords who just took a pounding in the previous round of offensives.
They're the ones assaulting and boxing in the Himalaya's. This is very much a supportive defensive action on our part, and is only going to piss off the local powers not reignite another war.
 
The Navy could have made us promise frigate yards along with carrier yards. That was something they could have done. The Navy could have explicitly written into their priorities "we're still holding you to the carrier yard promise, but we need the frigate yards done even faster if there's any way at all." That was something they could have done. And we've completed 2/3 of our target frigate yard capacity but only 1/4 or so of our target carrier yard capacity.

That's all I know.
To the best of my understanding, they couldnt.
The Navy only got the chance to make this one request because we approached them, and it was directly related to our issue.
More and the other services would have a right to butt in.

At least, thats my understanding.



We've been told that wingman drones are designed to be operated at a 1:1 level. It seems likely that getting any ratio more favorable than that will require radical alterations to the designs.
I recall differently.

Navy wingman drones are restricted to 1:1 ratios because of volume and weight constraints for carrying aircraft on a carrier.
Landbased aircraft are not subject to the same restrictions; being based on airbases with often arbitrary amounts of hangar space, munitions and jet fuel, the ratios can be 2:1 or higher, depending on eventual doctrine and drone production/availability.



I did say maybe on that one.
I'm fine with it personally.Flamethrowers have their place in war. Jungle fighting is one of them and I believe we are planning to build a city in India. Plus bonus damage vs biological horrors.

We will probably be alright without it but one more tool in the shed. And we might get something surprising from researching like we did when we found T-Glass.
So who precisely is going to carry a tank of incendiary stuff where a bullet in the tank could set him and everyone around him on fire and lead to an agonizing death or even more agonizing survival? Or drive a vehicle with the same payload?
This is GDI not Nod. We generally dont have suicidal zealots.

Inferno gel seams like its going to be a good counter to the buzzers. The smaller a thing gets the more vulnerable it is to thermal and chemical damage.
We already have a good counter.
Every GDI grenadier carries EMP grenades as standard isue. There's a reason why this is used as a rear area terror weapon against civilians and cops, and not against conventional regulars in composite suits and with EMP grenades in their loadout, riding IFVs.

Furthermore, you cannot use incendiaries anywhere near your own troops or civilians or even stuff you care about.
Which is a problem since these knifeweapons are used in precisely those situations.
EMP grenades do not have that problem.
This assumes Nod never improves those Buzzers, and that they won't employ them in more active combat zones. As I understand we're not doing Karachi for about two or three years. That's more then enough time for the technology to improve and be more suitable for the field. We can't know the future. It's better to have the technology and not need it, then it would be to need it and not have it.
Scrintech buzzers were explicitly vulnerable to EMP in TW3, and they're xenotech decades and centuries in advance of domestic Nod tech. You are not going to convince me that the Brotherhood knockoff version, which is explicitly made to be a cheap throwaway weapon, is going to be better at this than the OG version.


I think people underestimate Inferno Gel. This isn't just napalm, this is an in incendiary agent that can given time melt through tank composites and is lethal for heavy powered armored infantry to be exposed to.

We didn't get the Tiberium infused Purifying Flames I don't think, but NOD fire weapons are probably a massive step up from anything we're used to. If NOD flamethrowers worked on Buzzers and environmentally sealed Zone Armor, I think they'll definitely work on Gana and NBuzzers.
I dont agree.
This is probably something that will be deployed by aircraft in order to torch areas. People arent going to be carrying canisters and backpacks of this on their person; we're not Nod, we're not crazy. Even most Noddies wont carry liquid fire.

It is a field weapon.
You dont use it indoors, or near anywhere you have valuable people or equipmemt that could catch fire.
And it will likely have onerous storage requirements.

It would be a nice to have if you had no ethical quandaries about using something worse than white phosphorous on people or near-people, but even there its efficacy is (probably) questionable compared to conventional explosives.


The Regency War: Part 9 - A Final Flame
Things are ramping down apparently.
GDI is probably going to be running a series of reprisals for those assassinations; too high profile not to merit a vigorous response.
Still not the Treasury's problem.

It says something about how the Navy is currently stretched that for a major corps-strength land operation to clean out a section of coastline and relieve some of the pressure on the southern Atlantic convoys, the Navy could only muster 2x Governor cruisers with barely any escorts.

Interesting trick by Krukov here with his Banshees.
Railgun Munitions will probably help by upgunning the Slingshots, and rolling out isotronic computing should help with improving Pitbull and other SAM sensors.

Tactical stalemate for him, with initial victories that stalled and turned into a not quite rout under fire with sacrificial rearguards.
For us, painful in casualties, but it still amounted to a strategic victory, because he's gonna have trouble replacing his heavy metal losses here.

Terrorism R Us opens a new franchise.
It reminds me that it was Reynaldo fucking around the first time that got the initial Glacier minimg stopped, amd got the Treasury to eventually respond with overwhelmimg funding. Keep going asshole.

Minor Raiders Battle
They got thoroughly spanked. Which is good.
They should also have trouble replacing both materiel losses and experienced personnel for a while, and the big boys should have too many problems of their own to defray their expenses for a bit.

Not great, not terrible.


Okay so NODs augmented infantry is going to be a problem. We'll need to work on the GD-3 sooner then expected. Also with Gideon considering his nukes, SADN construction has to start next turn.
For the entire war so far we've been told that the GD-2 is not very effective against NOD's new strategy of expendable Gana swarms. We need something more anti-armor and more easily producible in large numbers than a heavy or exotic weapon. A new rifle for a new age.
1) Its a new rifle.
How much recoil do you think a GDI soldier can manage if you make the round more powerful?How much ammo can he carry if the bullet is bigger and heavier? There are hard limits to weapon performance designed for normal people.

You dont fight Gana with assault rifles, you fight them with grenades, crew served weapons, vehicle autocannons, power armored troops, airstrikes and artillery. Rifles will help, but there's a hard limit of performance you can shrink into a kinetic rifle that an infantry grunt can carry before it becomes counterproductive.

You're probably going to see more effect from funding ZA and rocket artillery or Railgun Munitions.

2)SADN is a strategic defense. It protects cities and industrial nodes against strategic attack.
It does not do anything for field formations or FOBs that get hit by a couple tactical nukes that get through their A2/AD defences.
There you benefit from laser PD proliferation, force dispersion, and the roll out of power armor to make infantry harder to kill.

GD-3 rifle is 1 dice for dev and easy to fit in Q1. Zone armor is Q3/Q4 to get started maybe next plan depends on how the rolls go.
1 dice for development. Deployment not included.
Alternative viewpoint: this kind of tactic used in the Himalayas is inherently limited to skirmishing warfare. It's good for slowly disrupting an enemy or forcing them to pull back, but you can't do massive breakthroughs with forces fed in through a skinny little tunnel. As long as we can detect and counter any really big tunnels (the kind that are as wide as a highway), Nod just can't push enough force through these tunnels to rapidly move the front lines. It's a problem that needs to be addressed, but it's well within the envelope of the kind of warfare Nod already knew how to do.
Alternative alternative viewpoint:
Nod has a history of undetectable tunnelling activity dating back to at least TW2, if not TW1. And with increased Tib activity underground, detection is likely to be questionable. SK was still finding North Korean tunnels under the DMZ up to at least 1990.

If they are sending Underminers, given their recent acquisition of GDI inhibitor tech to help clear underground Tiberium deposits out of the way, we are looking at either active probes of GDI defenses or attempts to blood their forces and work out underground doctrine ahead of a sustained offensive.

Either way, I fear that Nod India's actions suggests that the armed peace on that border is coming to an end and we're on a timer.


We already have frigates under construction to run escort. But we need escort carriers to help provide extended ASW coverage since it looks like we need multiple Orcas to deal with subs give the AA subs NOD has rolled out.
Edit- And the conversions are already showing their shortcomings and they were supposed to be a bridge until we get the CVEs out.
We do not have enough frigates under construction to run escort for surface action groups and simultaneously cover our convoys.
Thats the issue in my opinion.

The conversions are doing their jobs fine.
They have issues, but they are merchant conversions, not dedicated warships. Issues are expected, and will be addressed when they put in for maintenance, as much as possible.

Ask about the teething problems of real life warships; Nimitz class CVNs list to starboard by 1.5 degrees, requiring additional ballast to stabilize them and compromising their damage control capacity. Ticonderoga-class cruisers literally developed cracks in their superstructure weeks after being commissioned. I'm sure there's more.

If there is a deploy action than we can probably knock it out Q2 unless it is a lot of progress. Even then given the enclosed nature a lot of our upgrade paths are not going to help a lot in the tunnels.
We have an army of 25 million regulars, compared to Nod's fluctuating 15-35 million.
This does not, to the best of my knowledge, count the Home Guard or paramilitaries.

You are talking about rolling out enough weapons for a complete changeover, with spare weapons, spare parts and accessories, new electronics, and a whole different set of ammuniton stockpiles for everything from standard ammo to training rounds.
I fear you are very much underestimating the scale of this project.
 
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I understand why we're dropping so many dice in the military. It's even a good idea. But I'm really hoping they'll be some less mil heavy plans for the next turn, something in the area of 10 dice.

From my perspective, the military is just there to serve the needs of the greater economy, and it is currently extremely strong. Sure, we have glaring holes we should patch, but we should exploit our supremacy by converting it into a civilian dividend, which I'll in turn help our military long term.

If not next turn, with the war wound down, then soon.
 
I expect it to be cheap, in that all the new tooling is very simple and easy for us to make and doesn't involve tons of high performance heavy industry, exotic materials, and electronics (the usual reason why so many of our projects cost 20 R/die).

However, I also expect it to be a lot of work, because we're talking about replacing millions of rifles, the production lines for the ammunition they fire, the large stockpiles of existing ammunition, all the armorers' tools and training, and so on, and so on.

So I'm expecting a project that looks a lot like Ferro-Aluminum Armor Refit, in that it's got a very nice per-die price but the number of dice required makes us cringe.

Moreover, unlike ferro-aluminum we don't need to completely rework the entire material supply chain. The gun steel, polymers, and whatever else we used in the GD is liable to end up in the G3. We're not using completely different materials, that require different manufacturing techniques, and need to be patterned for a dozen different vehicles all with different protection scheme.

We need one family of rifles, maybe 2 ammo calibers, and a few simple attachments. Maybe a new optic or two that actually has some electronic components. For the same effort and material as armoring an APC. The Sig contract for new rifles and LMGs is a whopping 4.5 billion dollar contract. That's like 400 Abrams. The contract to upgrade to the next iteration of Abrams was 4.6 billion, and that's mostly just an electronics overhaul as far as I know.

I understand you comparing the new rifle to Ferro-aluminum, but I think that's an overestimate. Naturally replacing small arms takes a long time. I'm not saying we'll casually convert all our stockpiled rifles, but I do think the infrastructure to gradually phase in newer rifles is pretty trivial.
 
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When it comes to the GD-3, it is going to be a phased project that you are not expected to complete all of. Ranging from phase 1, where it is going to be more or less akin to what the US army is currently thinking with the new rifle program, where it is likely to be operating alongside the older M4 and M16 rifles. To phase 5 and potentially more (not quite decided how I am going to break it up) which is trying to take the GD2 out of service as quickly as humanly possible, and issue GD3s in their place not only to the infantry, but everywhere. Tank crews get GD3s, Security services get GD3s, etc.
 
So who precisely is going to carry a tank of incendiary stuff where a bullet in the tank could set him and everyone around him on fire and lead to an agonizing death or even more agonizing survival? Or drive a vehicle with the same payload?
This is GDI not Nod. We generally dont have suicidal zealots.
That's a great point! But I imagine we wouldn't do that at...

This is probably something that will be deployed by aircraft in order to torch areas. People arent going to be carrying canisters and backpacks of this on their person; we're not Nod, we're not crazy. Even most Noddies wont carry liquid fire.
..all.

Oh. So you realize we wouldn't be using it like that.

What was your point with the first comment then? You immediately refute it in the later section.

Besides I just want to research it to see what we can learn from it. If we get a effective weapon out of it great, but we could get something else like a more effective fuel mix or better explosives. I've got no idea but I'd like to find out.
 
Very much prefer trying to get the last frigate yard done along with a carrier yard instead of two carrier yards.

We need to stop missile spam. Ensure our conversions are as safe as we can make them till they're replaced.

Edit: Holy crap is plan murderbote over kill 😆
Yeah, but at least it gets all this bickering over the shipyards mostly resolved.

The only real problems I would foresee with it are the "what if the fusion reactors don't complete" issue and the Anadyr issue. Both are actually relatively low-probability issues.

They're the ones assaulting and boxing in the Himalaya's. This is very much a supportive defensive action on our part, and is only going to piss off the local powers not reignite another war.
I dunno. Remember, from Nod's perspective, the sequence of events goes like this:

2060: We're all getting ready to dogpile GDI.

2061: GDI suddenly hulks the fuck out and starts beating all our faces in, to the point where we're anxiously passing out the Davy Crocketts to random scrub sub-warlords we wouldn't usually trust with a frickin' Centurion, in hopes of averting total conquest. Fortunately, GDI is attacking all of us at once, so they can't really focus down any one warlord.

2062: GDI goes back to normal, but is clearly fortifying and exploiting the captured ground and unfucking their navy.

2063: GDI remains normal, but is clearly fortifying and exploiting the captured ground and unfucking their navy.

Late 2063: GDI specifically targets India. Like, sure their choice of beachhead is well positioned to relieve BZ-18, but it also conveniently divides the territory of the Atomic Shah and the Indians from each other and puts them in convenient striking range of both.

...

The Nod warlords may very well look at this and think "Now that they've unfucked their navy, what if this is just GDI changing strategy, abandoning the omnidirectional assault on all warlords at once that they used in Steel Vanguard, and instead trying to punch us out one at a time while holding on the defensive against the rest of us? What if the plan is to conquer Nod one slice at a time using bite and hold tactics? Will we be able to stop that?"

They probably won't take that as their cue to launch WMD and put GDI in the hospital while they still can, but they'll be considering it.

So we need SADN ready to blunt the damage.

1) Its a new rifle.
How much recoil do you think a GDI soldier can manage if you make the round more powerful?How much ammo can he carry if the bullet is bigger and heavier? There are hard limits to weapon performance designed for normal people.

You dont fight Gana with assault rifles, you fight them with grenades, crew served weapons, vehicle autocannons, power armored troops, airstrikes and artillery. Rifles will help, but there's a hard limit of performance you can shrink into a kinetic rifle that an infantry grunt can carry before it becomes counterproductive.
To be fair, we've been told that our options for plasma/laser/particle/rail rifles are also gated behind GD-3 research apparently for some reason.

And those are options that give us some credible ability to produce infantry small arms capable of seriously injuring Nod biomonsters in one way or another.

2)SADN is a strategic defense. It protects cities and industrial nodes against strategic attack.
It does not do anything for field formations or FOBs that get hit by a couple tactical nukes that get through their A2/AD defences.
There you benefit from laser PD proliferation, force dispersion, and the roll out of power armor to make infantry harder to kill.
With that said, SADN rollout is fairly likely to lead to proliferation of laser point defense, because the same systems that are useful for defending cities against cruise missiles are also useful for defending key bridges, supply depots, and divisional headquarters against the same thing.

If they are sending Underminers, given their recent acquisition of GDI inhibitor tech to help clear underground Tiberium deposits out of the way, we are looking at either active probes of GDI defenses or attempts to blood their forces and work out underground doctrine ahead of a sustained offensive.

Either way, I fear that Nod India's actions suggests that the armed peace on that border is coming to an end and we're on a timer.
Well, the good news is, I've revised Canned Beans to get us a suborbital supply link to BZ-18 faster, which is hopefully going to greatly extend the longevity of that position.

Opening a second, non-encircled front against Nod India at Karachi is desirable, but the current situation is still stable for now; we do what we can to mitigate the situation and hope for the best. Blue Zones are not easy prey, even against a well prepared Nod opponent. There's a reason that the warlord attacks so far never do more than scratch damage to one in relative terms.

I understand why we're dropping so many dice in the military. It's even a good idea. But I'm really hoping they'll be some less mil heavy plans for the next turn, something in the area of 10 dice.
It's mostly the ambitious Plan commitments, combined with us having spent a lot of time earlier in the Plan doing stuff that wasn't a commitment but seemed like a good idea. For instance, if we'd been doing OSRCT more heavily instead of, say, wingman drones, we'd be able to at least think about 8-9 die Military budgets more easily.

But the Air Force wouldn't be happy.

When it comes to the GD-3, it is going to be a phased project that you are not expected to complete all of. Ranging from phase 1, where it is going to be more or less akin to what the US army is currently thinking with the new rifle program, where it is likely to be operating alongside the older M4 and M16 rifles. To phase 5 and potentially more (not quite decided how I am going to break it up) which is trying to take the GD2 out of service as quickly as humanly possible, and issue GD3s in their place not only to the infantry, but everywhere. Tank crews get GD3s, Security services get GD3s, etc.
Should we expect something more like the Shell Plants project, where the phase costs are usually fairly steady from one phase to the next? Or something more like our big industrial megaprojects, with exponentially increasing Progress requirements?[/QUOTE]
 
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@Simon_Jester More like the industrial megaprojects, because each tranche will be adding a lot more units to the pile. Selected front line units is significantly smaller than all front line units, which is significantly smaller than all units, which is significantly smaller than all units plus home guard plus security services, which is significantly smaller than all units plus home guard plus security services before the end of next plan.

To put this in context, the M1 Garand was officially replaced for the US Army in 1958. Changeover for the active duty army was not completed until 1965, and it was still in use as a combat arm by various other elements of the military until the early 1970s if not later.
 
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That's a great point! But I imagine we wouldn't do that at...


..all.

Oh. So you realize we wouldn't be using it like that.

What was your point with the first comment then? You immediately refute it in the later section.

Besides I just want to research it to see what we can learn from it. If we get a effective weapon out of it great, but we could get something else like a more effective fuel mix or better explosives. I've got no idea but I'd like to find out.
I am pointing out that the only viable delivery platform doesnt work for the stated purpose of stopping Brotherhood knifeweapons.
We certainly cant bomb them from the air from Orcas or Firehawks; the damn things are small enough to fit several in a bag.
They're weapons, not weapon platforms.

So if they wont even work for the reason people are suggesting them, why would we want them?

They are arguably war crime adjacent, given the spirit of the rule about white phosphorous.
Dangerous to store compared to conventional explosives.
Possibly require specialized masures to manage or use them in combat, amd are dangerous to your own side.

EDIT
Factoid I just learned:
On Iwo Jima, the Japanese would summarily shoot any flamethrower operator captured as a criminal, and the average lifespan of a US Marine flamethrower user was 5 minutes, because they draw gratuitous amounts of enemy fire.
 
We certainly cant bomb them from the air from Orcas or Firehawks; the damn things are small enough to fit several in a bag
Not sure what you mean here. Of course we could. Just this last interlude we had the bio monsters charging defensive positions or running from air support.

Not sure how effective it would be once they got inside defensive positions but being able to put a wall of fire somewhere has plenty of uses.

Especially if we get to India and they have godzilla sized critters to fight or something.

Edit: Look I'm not even advocating that strongly for it. There's tons of stuff higher on the priority list than inferno gel. And it's a tech not a deployment. If we research it and all we get is a flamethrower variant of zone trooper armor then that's it. It's over. Probably never getting deployed.

But we might get something interesting from the tech research instead. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Remember, from Nod's perspective, the sequence of events goes like this:
They're not stupid enough to go "We're actively cutting off and attacking a blue zone, oh gee I sure do wonder why GDI is making their best attempt to tear us apart". I expect the local groups in the area to go nuts, yes, because we're actively moving against them. But I'm not expecting Karachi to happen and then have NOD kick off another war globally over it.
 
3) Even if the fusion reactors complete, our Energy surplus is likely to shrink significantly.
Non-issue. Nothing other than the Shipyards is going to tax our powerplant construction efforts for the next year.

Yeah, but at least it gets all this bickering over the shipyards mostly resolved.
I was questioning only spending 4 dice on shipyards, and I'm presented with a hyperbolic 10 dice bote-meme-plan.
Since when does that sort of behaviour reduce bickering?

One die on Nagoya is a given; we'd be fools not to. If we throw two dice at every available shipyard, we don't finish the others barring good luck on Dublin or New York and almost certainly not both. And then we need to spend at least one die per turn on each of multiple yards in 2061Q2, and unless we start wastefully spamming dice we probably still don't finish them all.

So basically, working on more yards that we know are gonna take two or three turns to finish isn't necessarily better for us than working on fewer yards we can hope will finish this turn and have a good chance of getting the other two next turn or the turn after.'
Both of these scenarios appear to finish shipyards in Q1, Q2 and Q3. So I'm not really seeing why one method is better than the other.

Because we're still on the hook for about a dozen dice worth of Space Force commitments plus ancillary odds and sods, and trying to do all of that in 2061Q3 or 'Q4 is going to be really ugly.
Then delay the Zone Defender Revisions and Hallucinogen Countermeasures. We aren't on the hook for those.
 
To put this in context, the M1 Garand was officially replaced for the US Army in 1958. Changeover for the active duty army was not completed until 1965, and it was still in use as a combat arm by various other elements of the military until the early 1970s if not later.
Yeah it takes time. For the M4A1 it was decided to become the official rifle for infantry, security, etc. in 2013. The switchover was expected to take 5 years. But like everything with the army it kept being delayed more and more years. Let me tell you, still plenty of M16s in service because there's not enough M4s.

Now just a few months ago they decided to replace the M4A1 with the XM5. Starting the whole cycle all over again.
 
I feel obliged to stress that this insanely expensive project is just for prototyping primitive pinhole portals, not something that we can drive a tank the size of a city block through.

Pinhole may still be enough to supply power between BZ depending on how expensive the finished product is.

If the hole can be widened to get a person through, you can shuffle high value supplies around. Basically the same as the shuttle service.

And the most important part may be the ability to have one end in space.

Because then even just power transfer would be a huge advantage as orbital solar collectors should be comparatively easy next to the Philadelphia.

Anything that allows humans through will be that much better for efforts to evacuate the planet.
 
Do not expect anything useful out of the portal research for at least a decade. Or at least, nothing useful on a Treasury scale.

Also, infernogel sounds like an excellent tool for tunnel fighting. Sort of dangerous to the users, sure, but flamethrowers make everybody unhappy in confined spaces. Mix with some ZA infantry for extra pain for Nod's tunneling units.
 
They're not stupid enough to go "We're actively cutting off and attacking a blue zone, oh gee I sure do wonder why GDI is making their best attempt to tear us apart". I expect the local groups in the area to go nuts, yes, because we're actively moving against them. But I'm not expecting Karachi to happen and then have NOD kick off another war globally over it.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying Nod won't understand why GDI is fighting in this way.

I'm saying Nod may well, not without reason, decide that such a huge localized offensive by GDI may presage "the beginning of the end" in terms of GDI systematically attempting to conquer the world piecemeal, by bringing overwhelming force to bear against individual warlords, breaking up the connections between warlords, and so on.

I mean, we've actually been thinking about doing that! This is not some kind of spurious reasoning on their part. It's just that to us it's a good thing, but to them it's bad and they want to figure out how to prevent it.

Non-issue. Nothing other than the Shipyards is going to tax our powerplant construction efforts for the next year.
True. On the other hand, the specter of Nod actually managing a meaningful campaign of power plant sabotage is on some people's minds, and one of the things we might do with the available Military dice freed up for non-mandatory actions by a plan like this later is build Zone Armor factories... which take up significant Energy.

I was questioning only spending 4 dice on shipyards, and I'm presented with a hyperbolic 10 dice bote-meme-plan.
Since when does that sort of behaviour reduce bickering?
That line was in the context of me noting "huh, this plan doesn't actually seem that bad; I could work with it even if it isn't perfect."

It does have the virtue of decisively pursuing something we seriously need to do something about, if nothing else.

Honestly, I was mostly thinking of the arguments I've had with Void Stalker and Uju about whether to prioritize frigate yards or light carrier yards. Not you.

...

Anyway, the point is, I'm not sniping at you, I'm seriously trying to come up with a plan that really addresses this particular issue. If you happen not to like it or the compromises it makes, fine. [shrug]

Both of these scenarios appear to finish shipyards in Q1, Q2 and Q3. So I'm not really seeing why one method is better than the other.
Well, that's the thing. Either way, we're finishing yards stretched out over a variable period of time. Which option works out better in the end winds up depending very very heavily on random chance and the roll of the dice.

Then delay the Zone Defender Revisions and Hallucinogen Countermeasures. We aren't on the hook for those.
There's two sides to that. One is that we have budget issues, not just dice issues. Replacing a few 15/die projects with 20/die projects isn't that bad, but there's a finite amount of slack.

The other side is that everyone is striking a varying balance between the projects we're on the hook for and the projects they think we need. The two categories don't overlap perfectly.
 
If the gd-3 is getting researched then we likely want to do that dual liquid explosive research either concurrently or before so the new weapons get to benefit from better rounds.
 
Early biprop is very unstable in quest. IIRC, it's deployment will be limited to autonomous platforms until more stable variants are produced.
 
Additionally biprop is typically thought of as best for artillery, as having a stable cartridges for bullets with two liquids contained within would be a bit difficult. It sounds better to me to use biprops as filling for an explosive shell, which, given we are developing railgun ammo, that suddenly becomes intriguing, though not so much so that it supersedes our commitments.
 
If we research GD-3 and we have a surplus of Superconductors. Is there any chance we can end up with a Electrokinetic (Hybrid Gauss and Chemical) gun rather than just a regular bullt firing gun?
 
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