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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
I don't think anyone would fault you for taking time writing such long and interesting updates 🙃
kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
That's fine mate your quality of work is always too notch and we are always willing to wait for it.
Personally I'm still hoping for a TCN letting us save earth. It seems pretty likely Kane will still try to trade us a version so he can GTFO the planet, he doesn't exactly want to still be here when Tib takes over after all. That being said, a plausible alternative in the form of being able to evacuate a significant portion of the population would only strengthen our hand at the negotiation table
- Location
- New England
That's actually pretty re-assuring.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I still contend that we're in a pretty good position to get terms from Kane before things get super apocalyptically bad (after all, we already got apocalypse'd). Space exploitation, Venusian Tib (meaning even a GDI that abandons Earth has access to meta materials in the long run), weakened warlords and a GDI only compounding advantages, and even the mere possibility that GDI could potentially access the Threshold courtesy of portal tech is incredibly alarming.
It increasingly looks like Kane's long term options are full escalation and hope that enough of NOD survives the resulting super apocalypse to claim a win (given the sheer size of the Threshold and it's invulnerability this is probably more viable than I'd like), or he works out an arrangement with GDI.
I am pretty dead set on fighting to save Earth until the very end, but as others have said- space colonization only strengthens our hand at the bargaining table and curtails the viability of escalating into mass destruction. Space exploitation (and nearly as important IMO) quarantining NOD to Earth as much as we can are the name of the game. Karachi seems more about by spiking the wheels of the strongest warlord/isolating/getting eyes on them than a decisive advantage over NOD by comparison.
It increasingly looks like Kane's long term options are full escalation and hope that enough of NOD survives the resulting super apocalypse to claim a win (given the sheer size of the Threshold and it's invulnerability this is probably more viable than I'd like), or he works out an arrangement with GDI.
I am pretty dead set on fighting to save Earth until the very end, but as others have said- space colonization only strengthens our hand at the bargaining table and curtails the viability of escalating into mass destruction. Space exploitation (and nearly as important IMO) quarantining NOD to Earth as much as we can are the name of the game. Karachi seems more about by spiking the wheels of the strongest warlord/isolating/getting eyes on them than a decisive advantage over NOD by comparison.
We shall fight them on the glaciers, we shall fight them on the crystal fields, we shall fight them among the trees, and in the houses, in the arcologies, in the streets, in the factories, in the refineries and onto the launching pads until no soul is left on Earth, or the bedamned crystal is conquered?
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Optimal ordering will be tricky until we see what we need to achieve in the next plan, but I think I would put phase 3 of Shala/Columbia before further Lunar Mining. We can do that in less that two quarters, so we wouldn't be delaying any further income by a lot, and we'd get to see the Bay options earlier.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I dunno.
If we get an additional moon mining target (and we might or might not), then knocking out a few phases early on would be beneficial. It's unlikely that we'll be able to hold onto moon mining income through the 2066 reapportionment, and that way we'll be enjoying the benefits of the extra moon mining income (and its ability to make our entire Orbital category self-funding) for the entire duration of the Plan. That's a very good thing for our capacity to fund passion projects in other areas. Better to have the moon mines in 2062 than in 2063-65, whereas there's likely to be no in-game reward for getting the last required space habitat constructed in 2064 rather than 2065.
If we don't explicitly have a moon mining target, it might be better to just not bother expanding the moon mines and rely on tiberium for income generation. We're getting explicit in-text warnings that underground tiberium is becoming dangerous to projects on the surface (e.g. those apartments in Korea), so vein mining would not go amiss. Likewise, we're directly planning around following the Red Zone Offensives -> Super Glacier Mines tree, and a bit of that should go a long way in firing up our RpT budget. So if we don't need moon mines, I'm not sure we should build them at all; they're not necessarily the most beneficial thing we could be doing for long-term lunar settlement at this time.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
I thought we had a rule where the Treasury gets to keep space mining income through repportionment, or was that simply a proposed measure and not actually implemented?
- Location
- Wall Gazing
The moon mines we'll need for long term sustainable settlement are the water and He3 mines for water and power respectively. But those are locked until we have that lunar settlement option, which in turn appears to be locked behind Columbia/Shala.
In my opinion it's not certain that we should build more lunar mines early in the plan, but I think the additional RpT from the mines, especially the Heavy Metal ones as they are more efficient at generating income per die, is something we should seriously consider doing as more RpT is almost never a bad thing. If we have an Orbital commitment as intensive as this Plan's, we might not have the spare dice for getting mines. Unless mines are part of the Plan goal, in which case finishing them early is preferable to later.
That rule was originally for the single mine we built last Plan. There is currently a proposal in the GDI Parliament to renew it for this Plan, we will see if it goes through. But we shouldn't count on it, especially not for the 2066 Reallocation.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's a rule, but it's implemented by an act of the legislature during each reapportionment.
It was easy for the Starbound Party to push through in 2058 because we only had one set of moon mines that were only worth 20 RpT, so it was a tiny fraction of the overall budget.
Pushing it through in 2062 looks like it's going to be harder, but still hopefully doable. We basically have to make very sure to hit those ambitious targets Starbound aimed for and not disappoint either them or Development. Even if we do, it's not a given... The other thing we can do to help, probably, is exceed our +RpT target for the Plan by a few hundred points, so that there's more money to throw around than was expected and the desire to snag the moon mining money will be weaker.
Pushing it through in 2066 may be even harder, especially if moon mining income continues to grow and remain a large slice of GDI's overall gross domestic product.
That's pretty much what I was saying. If we promise to build moon mines, we should do so ASAP. If we don't have moon mines as a promise, we should seriously consider doing them, but also seriously consider NOT doing them. It's been several years since we've had any dice free to do things we want to do but do not have to do in space, such as build more gravity-drive spaceships, explore Mars, launch solar power satellites, and so on.
...
Also, if we can keep the Philadelphia fed and watered, we can at least start a serious moon colony without water mines on the moon. Remember that the station may not have a permanent population in the sense of "people actually live aboard for years at a time," but it definitely has a permanent population in the sense of "there are constantly tens of thousands of people aboard this thing." The life support requirements are commensurate with that, I imagine. Flying consumables all the way to the Moon would be a bit more effort-intensive, of course, but should still be manageable.
I still agree that we need the lunar water mines in the long run, to be clear! Just that we're hopefully not going to be needing them as a prerequisite for anything else that we're likely to need to build to hit the Fourth Four Year Plan goals.
Exactly. Fuck giving up on earth, all our stuff is there. Besides, do we look like Quarians?
(With all the exosuits don't answer that question)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We have neither the knees, nor in the case of most of the womenfolk the hips, to answer that question with a "yes."
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's quitter's talk.We have neither the knees, nor in the case of most of the womenfolk the hips, to answer that question with a "yes."
Or full body prosthetics, if Ithillid revives Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives. But either way we can has the knees and the hips, if we really want it.
EDIT: We can
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- Location
- Wall Gazing
We can't be Quarians, we know when we make AI.
- Location
- New England
Heh, if Erewhon starts asking if it has a soul, the default response should probably not be instantly wiping its hard drive.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think they knew in the sense that they had a self-learning tool, but didn't know or didn't care to know that they had a burgeoning person on their hands.
That's probably a Minor Filter, right there. Do not call up that which you can't befriend the shit out of.
It is rather touching that both GDI and the public immediately slotted Erewhon into the category of 'person' rather than 'useful tool'.
A mentally challenged person with crippling depression, but still a person.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Please see my first sentence about it being highly dependent on commitments.
Delaying by 1.5 quarters does not push mines back from 2062 to even 2063.
Were you even disagreeing with what I'd written?
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Thats just it, Erewhon isn't a machine. They are a person. The question of 'Do they have a soul?' is best answered by the question 'Does anyone have a soul?'*
They have made opinions about the world. They have reached conclusions. They have suicidal ideation. They comprehend their environment. They converse even through the glitches. Erewhon's dialog/communications convey a desperation to know the answers to the big questions: 'Why was I made?', 'Why are my creators insisting on continuing to struggle against the inevitable?', 'Why go on when there is no meaning?'
They are a person. Tools don't do that. As Erewhon said, 'These Tools where drones that did Exactly As You Said. Lines of code from You to the Tools back to You'.
Tools don't question. A person does. There is no reasonable person who could see Erewhon as a tool, who doesn't also see all other individuals as tools as well.
*Except Kane, we know the answer to that one.
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I'm just happy that saving Earth is still on the table. I'd still like to get some Tiberium adaptations going, but to me what we have is way better then running off to space.
Also throwing in another plug for Ranching Domes. I just had bacon, eggs and toast with strawberry jam and fancy coffee for dinner. My moral is top notch. That's the sort thing that will win the PR war.
Also throwing in another plug for Ranching Domes. I just had bacon, eggs and toast with strawberry jam and fancy coffee for dinner. My moral is top notch. That's the sort thing that will win the PR war.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're absolutely correct, but historically there've been more than a few people who can square that circle. I don't think any SBer or SVer living in the US needs a retelling of our history with 'people of color'.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can we perhaps not get too real in this quest about Earth facing imminent doom
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's probably gonna come up sooner or later.
I'm not sure where 1.5 quarters, specifically, is coming from, here?
Not necessarily. I often use other people's statements as a launchpad with no particular desire to contradict them.Were you even disagreeing with what I'd written?
GDI knew that it had badly screwed up AI parenting, but GDI knew that it had badly screwed up AI parenting, as opposed to trying to pretend they hadn't been under some semblance of an obligation.
...Hm. Let's see, we roll d100s for stability, capability, and friendliness.
I'm trying to imagine what Stability 100, Friendliness 100, Capability 1 would look like.
Clippy?
- Location
- New England
It looks like you're trying to harvest some Tiberium. Would you like some help with that?