Well, we already have the drones and the tendrils.

Hover tech may not be so important because we're most likely to encounter liquid tiberium deep underground where we end up with our drone buried in the stuff.

Visceroid research is something I look forward to doing in, say, 2063 when we can afford the PS cost.
 
I'm just picturing vein mining turning into fleets of drones with harvesting tendrils that harvest in AI driven patterns till they are full, require little upkeep besides replacing a modular T-Glass holding tank occasionally because they don't touch anything do to hovering, and can just vacuum up liquid tiberium where they find it because of whatever crazy material we discover in visceroids.

All we need then is to bring the harvested tiberium to a enormous robot factory that can build more drone harvesters and we can cleanse the world of tiberium with a endless horde of AI controlled drones.

Nothing can possibly go wrong. 🧐
 
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The cold-hearted and xenophobic GDI is secreting away data that can be used to combat the Tiberium menace. Data that can be used to keep rivers clean, plants growing, and people living. Whether due to bigotry, or lust-for-power, it matters not. The information must be released.

I love how you just have the Nod forces ignore their entire history of deliberately spreading Tiberium around the world and doing everything in their power to make it worse. Really catches their hypocrisy.
 
Hey @sunrise will we get a mission for/to Edit: Uranus/Neptune in SCED Quest at some point to use Ion Storm Collectors in Edit: an Ice Giant's atmosphere as a source of power?
 
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Would be nice if we could get funding for the Outer System Survey Probes. The Craterscope is expensive and we really blew through our surplus budget.

Overall we should at least complete the scans for the rest of the outer system planets and their moons. Then maybe set up the observation arrays for all of them.

Speaking of which, I know I included completing the Jupiter Observation Array in the plan that won last turn but the current turn listed it as not even started. Not to be rude but those satellites cost a lot of that turn's IP.
 
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I love how you just have the Nod forces ignore their entire history of deliberately spreading Tiberium around the world and doing everything in their power to make it worse. Really catches their hypocrisy.
Because no one's philosophy can change in the face of new circumstances. That's why GDI is still a neoliberal hellhole.

Oh wait.
 
Because no one's philosophy can change in the face of new circumstances. That's why GDI is still a neoliberal hellhole.

Oh wait.
I mean, we know what it looks like when Nod's philosophy changes like that in the face of new circumstances.

You get something like the Open Hand Party, which recognizes that Kane is an asshole responsible for mass death and that actively spreading tiberium at his command was a big mistake.

One of the main factors obstructing GDI's tiberium mitigation efforts is all the places we can't go because Nod is shooting at us and having to fortify all of the everything is expensive. If they wanted a mass global rollout of inhibitors, we'd be fucking delighted to do that in exchange for a general lasting cease-fire.

So when someone in Nod's internal narrative is saying "to save ourselves from tiberium we must take this technology GDI is hoarding," it's just wildly at odds with their present collective actions, let alone their past actions.
 
Because no one's philosophy can change in the face of new circumstances. That's why GDI is still a neoliberal hellhole.

Oh wait.
Yes, because the modern nations of the world uniting into a largely one world government that was ultimately still heavily influenced by it's neoliberal component states is morally equivalent to NOD atrocities. This stupid ass drum is part of why we're locked out of an entire facet of the quest.

I get the idea of disliking your various brand of wealthy, racist, affluent and white representatives, but this is basically trying to derive some moral equivalency between that and 'let's render most of Europe uninhabitable so that we can attract the Scrin' or 'let's literally weaponize the ecological collapse caused by Tiberium'- and the latter is what we see them doing now. Moreover, that's the stuff they do to us, what the hell do you think the Warlords use to control their own people? How much more easy is it to control populations and their environs if you control clean water, power, and food?

There is no 'GDI was bad too', there's 'GDI was plagued with some of the same flaws almost every government in the history of humanity has ever had- and certainly any hundred million plus representative democracy has ever had' and there's 'A radical mystery cult preyed upon vulnerable people to rally them around a messiah-figure who's currently competing on the global leaderboards for man responsible for the most human deaths'. If we acknowledge any nuance in NOD's position, we have to acknowledge the nuances of GDI's. NOD get's away with actually obscene atrocities because of their granularity, while GDI is tarred by the actions of any. That's a frustrating enough take in setting before it's taken up out of setting because of personal predisposition. Kane can conduct Unit 731 levels of experimentation of Forgotten on one hand, and have cults of Forgotten psychic commandos on the other, NOD sure as hell doesn't need you defending it.

We can't say GDI was or will ever be perfect, we can't say there aren't decent people in NOD, but it seems sure as hell evident the net good GDI was doing outweighed NOD's long before we got into the chair.
 
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'A radical mystery cult preyed upon vulnerable people to rally them around a messiah-figure who's currently competing on the global leaderboards for man responsible for the most human deaths'.
I'm pretty sure he's lapped Genghis Khan at this point. If you count, like, half the deaths (and while it's not entirely his fault, he... definitely didn't help) from Tiberium it's over a billion.
 
I'm pretty sure he's lapped Genghis Khan at this point. If you count, like, half the deaths (and while it's not entirely his fault, he... definitely didn't help) from Tiberium it's over a billion.
If you're counting direct casualties as a resylt of his actions or direct orders he's still got some competition from Ghengis.

On the othet hand, if you're counting indirect casualties stemming from his actions and orders then everyone else is competing for a vary distant second place.
 
Yes, because the modern nations of the world uniting into a largely one world government that was ultimately still heavily influenced by it's neoliberal component states is morally equivalent to NOD atrocities. This stupid ass drum is part of why we're locked out of an entire facet of the quest.

I get the idea of disliking your various brand of wealthy, racist, affluent and white representatives, but this is basically trying to derive some moral equivalency between that and 'let's render most of Europe uninhabitable so that we can attract the Scrin' or 'let's literally weaponize the ecological collapse caused by Tiberium'- and the latter is what we see them doing now. Moreover, that's the stuff they do to us, what the hell do you think the Warlords use to control their own people? How much more easy is it to control populations and their environs if you control clean water, power, and food?

There is no 'GDI was bad too', there's 'GDI was plagued with some of the same flaws almost every government in the history of humanity has ever had- and certainly any hundred million plus representative democracy has ever had' and there's 'A radical mystery cult preyed upon vulnerable people to rally them around a messiah-figure who's currently competing on the global leaderboards for man responsible for the most human deaths'. If we acknowledge any nuance in NOD's position, we have to acknowledge the nuances of GDI's. NOD get's away with actually obscene atrocities because of their granularity, while GDI is tarred by the actions of any. That's a frustrating enough take in setting before it's taken up out of setting because of personal predisposition. Kane can conduct Unit 731 levels of experimentation of Forgotten on one hand, and have cults of Forgotten psychic commandos on the other, NOD sure as hell doesn't need you defending it.

We can't say GDI was or will ever be perfect, we can't say there aren't decent people in NOD, but it seems sure as hell evident the net good GDI was doing outweighed NOD's long before we got into the chair.
You're ignoring the point that Strunkriidiisk was making. Which is that, just as GDI has changed from a neoliberal power structure enforcing oligarchy*, some factions of NOD are changing their perspective on Tiberium. People change their minds. And if they do so because of changing circumstances, that's not hypocrisy.

Now, there probably is a bit of hypocrisy involved, because NOD tends to have some, but likely less than some think.

*And yes, GDI under the administrations prior to TW3 was, according to quest canon, structurally unfair and had a policy of ignoring the megadeaths happening in Yellow Zones due to Tiberium and its consequences. It may not have caused as many deaths as NOD, but it's a "light grey/dark grey" situation.
 
Will Operation Steel Vanguard be a long-term success or strategic error and was it playing to the Nod narrative from the start? How well is the Brotherhood of Nod doing?

Operation Steel Vanguard was an operation designed to launch a massive preemptive spoiling action prevent Nod from launching its planned offensives effectively, keep most of the fighting out of the Blue and Green Zones, and to seize large amounts of Nod territory. From that view, Operation Steel Vanguard was mainly successful.

However, Steel Vanguard was a major break from GDI's previous plans to play defense against Nod surprise actions and then counterattack. While GDI leadership and the Nod military forces were aware that Nod was planning to strike first in a large scale, it would look like GDI suddenly launched a massive offensive war of choice out of the blue to everybody else. While GDI could reveal that Nod was planning to strike GDI first, almost all Nod civilians would not believe it as they have been taught always believe the worst about GDI. Nod leadership could easily reframe the Nod masterstroke strikes as just retaliation against GDI imperialism and the massive Nod military buildup on the border originally meant for offensives against GDI as a wise precaution against unexpected GDI attacks. Steel Vanguard will also help validate Nod's recent and slow pivot in anti-GDI propaganda from the traditional GDI has abandoned the Yellow Zones to die angle to GDI are imperialists coming to steal your tiberium and Nod is your only defense angle. After all, from the average pro-Nod Yellow Zoner's point of view, GDI has indeed launched a massive worldwide offense to take Nod lands out of the blue and has caused the biggest refugee crisis since the Third Tiberium War. Additionally, GDI efforts to help Green and Yellow Zoners could easily be denounced and viewed as a hollow sham and a new version of the white man's burden by Nod and pro-Nod Yellow Zoners.

Meanwhile, many GDI citizens would also view Steel Vanguard as a potentially unnecessary offensive of choice because they might too not believe GDI's claims that Nod was planning to strike GDI first because of a distrust of the government, or out of the belief that a Nod buildup now was just an intimidation tactic, or that a Nod attack could simply be repelled and does not justify a massive offensive war. While sensible citizens should always be skeptical of claims by their government that an offensive war is necessary, it is working against us in this instance. With the Regency War being an offensive war of choice by the minds of many GDI citizens, it is less public support for the war than in previous conflicts with Nod and the war is very unpopular with a loud sizable minority who resent being called on to sacrifice for a war effort to conquer lands full of people who hate GDI and love Kane which they consider not worthwhile. Additionally, the Nod terrorist actions will be more effective at sapping support for what is viewed as an offensive war than for what is viewed as a defensive war. While it is well known that actions of terrorism and terror bombing tend to galvanize public support in defensive wars, people are less willing to support an offensive war of choice and occupation if they have to constantly experience terrorist attacks once the initial rally around the flag effect of the first terrorist attacks fades.

Steel Vanguard might be a military success, but it could eventually fatally undermine public support of the current administration and the continuation of the policies of the Two Grangers administration.

How well is the Brotherhood of Nod doing? This is a complex question. While we tend to speak of the Regency War as a war between all of GDI and a sizable portion of the Brotherhood of Nod, that is not the way the Nod leadership views this war. The goals that Kane, the high-level Nod warlords, and the low-level Nod memberships are seeking in the Regency War are quite different. From the viewpoint of Kane, the Regency War is nothing but an audition to discover the best warlord to serve as his right hand person to help him achieve his ultimate goal of leaving Earth. The loss of strategic Nod buffer territory and the deaths of many of his forces is of no concern to him. The only way Kane could fail to achieve his goal for the Regency War is if every warlord failed miserably against GDI by an equal margin leaving him with no successful warlord or most successful failure to raise up which was very unlikely to happen.

For the high-level Nod warlords, their goals were to try to win the competition to become Kane's right hand warlord, to prove their dedication and loyalty to the Nod cause, and to shore up their support among their own followers. Actually achieving strategically significant and sustainable successes against GDI is not necessary for them to win there. Stahi's victories were flashy but insignificant and Bintang's successes cannot be easily repeated and yet they seem to be the likely Nod winners of the Regency War. Krukov has lost many battles and is unlikely to become Kane's right hand man but he has kept control over his followers and has even gained new followers in Canada. Gideon is clearly the biggest loser of the Regency War. Gideon attempted to destroy Chicago to land a critical blow against GDI but the masterstroke failed, his territory has been cut up by GDI, and some of his followers are deserting him. Low-level Nod members were probably told that they were going to push back and maybe even destroy GDI and the war would seem a disaster to them, but losses among low-level Nod members can be replaced with enough time as always and the very powerful Nod propaganda machine can reduce blowback by reframing the Regency War as a successful effort by Nod to prevent the GDI imperialists from invading the core Nod territories. While Nod has lost a land area the size of India, Nod evacuated the most productive people from the buffer territories while leaving behind the sickest and unproductive people behind for GDI to deal with. If GDI leaves these people to die or in bad refugee camps, it would make for great propaganda fodder for Nod out of people Nod has little use for. If GDI takes in these refugees, it is a massive burden on the GDI welfare systems that will polarize the Blue Zone public. Nod can always use Steel Vanguard as a massive propaganda gift to reconsolidate their grip over the remaining Yellow Zones and to strengthen the hatred and resentment that Yellow Zoners have against GDI while GDI society grows more divided after the war.

Of course, GDI has gained new territories for itself and direct access to the Red Zones in some areas. Most of the war's fighting occurs in the Yellow Zones and this spared GDI the need for the massive reconstruction effort so far. But will these things outweigh the loss of public support for the current policies and the effects of the massive propaganda gift that Steel Vanguard was for Nod?
Thoughts?
 
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@BoredStudent1414 , could you please break up those two giant wall of text paragraphs? They're like... 500 words long; each is a whole essay in its own right.

My usual rule of thumb is that a paragraph shouldn't go over about 200 words; it makes it a lot easier to see and understand and not lose one's place in the writing.

EDIT: Thank you.
 
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Remember Eastern Europe?

It was a huge Nod stronghold, full of people who worshipped Kane as their Messiah. They trusted him, and he repaid their trust by creating a Tiberium WMD that wiped out YZ-1.

The destruction of Nod's single greatest center of power was All Part of the Plan. And if that involved killing millions of his loyal followers, well, Kane didn't seem to lose any sleep over it.

Imagine thinking that liberal democracy is morally equivalent to a feudal warlord confederation united by their blind worship of a being who has absolutely zero regard for human well-being. GDI wasn't a "neoliberal hellhole" before the Grangers, and it certainly isn't one now. Nod will lie, of course; it's what they do. But the millions upon millions of refugees flooding into our territory are voting with their feet.

Will Operation Steel Vanguard be a long-term success or strategic error and was it playing to the Nod narrative from the start? How well is the Brotherhood of Nod doing?

Operation Steel Vanguard was an operation designed to launch a massive preemptive spoiling action prevent Nod from launching its planned offensives effectively, keep most of the fighting out of the Blue and Green Zones, and to seize large amounts of Nod territory. From that view, Operation Steel Vanguard was mainly successful.

However, Steel Vanguard was a major break from GDI's previous plans to play defense against Nod surprise actions and then counterattack. While GDI leadership and the Nod military forces were aware that Nod was planning to strike first in a large scale, it would look like GDI suddenly launched a massive offensive war of choice out of the blue to everybody else. While GDI could reveal that Nod was planning to strike GDI first, almost all Nod civilians would not believe it as they have been taught always believe the worst about GDI. Nod leadership could easily reframe the Nod masterstroke strikes as just retaliation against GDI imperialism and the massive Nod military buildup on the border originally meant for offensives against GDI as a wise precaution against unexpected GDI attacks. Steel Vanguard will also help validate Nod's recent and slow pivot in anti-GDI propaganda from the traditional GDI has abandoned the Yellow Zones angle to die to GDI are imperialists coming to steal your tiberium and Nod is your only defense angle. After all, from the average pro-Nod Yellow Zoner's point of view, GDI has indeed launched a massive worldwide offense to take Nod lands out of the blue and has caused the biggest refugee crisis since the Third Tiberium War. Additionally, GDI efforts to help Green and Yellow Zoners could easily be denounced and viewed as a hollow sham and a new version of the white man's burden by Nod and pro-Nod Yellow Zoners. Meanwhile, many GDI citizens would also view Steel Vanguard as a potentially unnecessary offensive of choice because they might too not believe GDI's claims that Nod was planning to strike GDI first because of a distrust of the government, or out of the belief that a Nod buildup now was just an intimidation tactic, or that a Nod attack could simply be repelled and does not justify a massive offensive war. While sensible citizens should always be skeptical of claims by their government that an offensive war is necessary, it is working against us in this instance. With the Regency War being an offensive war of choice by the minds of many GDI citizens, it is less public support for the war than in previous conflicts with Nod and the war is very unpopular with a loud sizable minority who resent being called on to sacrifice for a war effort to conquer lands full of people who hate GDI and love Kane which they consider not worthwhile. Additionally, the Nod terrorist actions will be more effective at sapping support for what is viewed as an offensive war than for what is viewed as a defensive war. While it is well known that actions of terrorism and terror bombing tend to galvanize public support, people are less willing to support an offensive war of choice and occupation if they have to constantly experience terrorist attacks once the initial rally around the flag effect of the first terrorist attacks fades.

Steel Vanguard might be a military success, but it could eventually fatally undermine public support of the current administration and the continuation of the policies of the Two Grangers administration.

How well is the Brotherhood of Nod doing? This is a complex question. While we tend to speak of the Regency War as a war between all of GDI and a sizable portion of the Brotherhood of Nod, that is not the way the Nod leadership views this war. The goals that Kane, the high-level Nod warlords, and the low-level Nod memberships are seeking in the Regency War are quite different. From the viewpoint of Kane, the Regency War is nothing but an audition to discover the best warlord to serve as his right hand person to help him achieve his ultimate goal of leaving Earth. The loss of strategic Nod buffer territory and the deaths of many of his forces is of no concern to him. The only way Kane could fail to achieve his goal for the Regency War is if every warlord failed miserably against GDI by an equal margin leaving him with no successful warlord or most successful failure to raise up which was very unlikely to happen. For the high-level Nod warlords, their goals were to try to win the competition to become Kane's right hand warlord, to prove their dedication and loyalty to the Nod cause, and to shore their support among their own followers. Actually achieving strategically significant and sustainable successes against GDI is not necessary for them to win there. Stahi's victories were flashy but insignificant and Bintang's successes cannot be easily repeated and yet they seem to be the likely Nod winners of the Regency War. Krukov has lost many battles and is unlikely to become Kane's right hand man but he has kept control over his followers and has even gained new followers in Canada. Gideon is clearly the biggest loser of the Regency War. Gideon attempted to destroy Chicago to land a critical blow against GDI but the masterstroke failed, his territory has been cut up by GDI, and some of his followers are deserting him. Low-level Nod members were probably told that they were going to push back and maybe even destroy GDI and the war would seem a disaster to them, but losses among low-level Nod members can be replaced with enough time as always and the very powerful Nod propaganda machine can reduce blowback by reframing the Regency War as a successful effort by Nod to prevent the GDI imperialists from invading the core Nod territories. While Nod has lost an land area the size of India, Nod evacuated the most productive people from the buffer territories while leaving behind the sickest and unproductive people behind for GDI to deal with. If GDI leaves these people to die or in bad refugee camps, it would great propaganda fodder for Nod out of people Nod has little use for. If GDI takes in these refugees, it is a massive burden on the GDI welfare systems that will polarize the Blue Zone public. Nod can always use Steel Vanguard as a massive propaganda gift to reconsolidate their grip over the remaining Yellow Zones and to strengthen the hatred and resentment that Yellow Zoners have against GDI while GDI society grows more divided after the war.

Of course, GDI has gained new territories for itself and direct access to the Red Zones in some areas. Most of the war's fighting occurs in the Yellow Zones and this spared GDI the need for the massive reconstruction effort so far. But will these things outweigh the loss of public support for the current policies and the effects of the massive propaganda gift that Steel Vanguard was for Nod?
Thoughts?

This is not correct.

We are at war with Nod. We are not morally obligated to perpetually fight on the defensive. There is no "war of choice", because there was never an actual peace with Nod. Nod has repeatedly attacked our territory and killed our people throughout the quest.

Nod will lie to their people. They're good at that. Most GDI citizens are perfectly happy to rejoice in the defeat of the death cultists trying to murder the planet, and any statements about EVIL IMPERIALIST AGGRESSION mean nothing to them. Again, we are at war. If Nod imagined that GDI was forbidden from attacking their territory, they were wrong.

Millions of Yellow Zoners have come to join GDI, so clearly the propaganda didn't work on everyone. We can provide small things like "food" and "shelter", while Nod offers a chance to starve while Praising The Messiah. Most of the world's population now lives under GDI, not the Brotherhood, and the number is only going to grow as we expand our control in Europe and North America.

Propaganda is not a substitute for actual victory. Nod lost territory, they lost industry, and they suffered enormous losses among trained specialists. There is no "propaganda gift", because GDI's citizens don't believe Nod propaganda. Neither do plenty of Nod's citizens.

The Caravanserai are actively fighting Mehretu. Qinglian sat out the Regency War. Nod is a divided, squabbling band of warlords, while we fight as a nation. They lost the Regency War, and their defeat will give us an enormous advantage in future conflicts.

Nod delanda est
 
However, Steel Vanguard was a major break from GDI's previous plans to play defense against Nod surprise actions and then counterattack. While GDI leadership and the Nod military forces were aware that Nod was planning to strike first in a large scale, it would look like GDI suddenly launched a massive offensive war of choice out of the blue to everybody else. While GDI could reveal that Nod was planning to strike GDI first, almost all Nod civilians would not believe it as they have been taught always believe the worst about GDI.
Yes. On the other hand, this is what Nod civilians have been taught to expect from GDI, so... neutral result.

One of the key things to remember, and that I think you kind of leave out of this analysis, @BoredStudent1414 , is that it's meaningless to talk about whether something is good or bad without a benchmark for comparison. Good or bad compared to what?

If GDI pulls into a shell of defenses and just tanks Nod attacks, Nod makes propaganda about GDI living in ivory arcology towers and leaving the Yellow Zones to die.

If GDI goes out of the defenses to do useful things in the Yellow Zones, Nod shoots at them.

If GDI shoots back too hard and starts forcing Nod back, Nod makes propaganda about GDI imperialists out to take your land and tiberium.

In every situation, Nod will force something bad to happen to GDI, so you can't use "will Nod say mean things about us" as a proxy for "did we win," because Nod will always do that no matter whether we win or lose.

After all, from the average pro-Nod Yellow Zoner's point of view, GDI has indeed launched a massive worldwide offense to take Nod lands out of the blue and has caused the biggest refugee crisis since the Third Tiberium War.
This looks a little different when you reflect that said refugees are running toward us, not away from us. When 10% of Nod's entire population defects or is overrun, it's a good sign that the rest of the population knows the score. That is, the bulk of the Nod population knows, even if they cannot publicly admit, that GDI is in fact feeding and housing these new refugees. Assuming GDI hasn't been taking stupid pills, they will publicize this fact, and it will probably neutralize or even more than neutralize the political consequences of 'causing' the refugee crisis in question.

Remember that Nod subjects are crossing the border to join GDI on purpose; the reverse is generally not true.

Meanwhile, many GDI citizens would also view Steel Vanguard as a potentially unnecessary offensive of choice because they might too not believe GDI's claims that Nod was planning to strike GDI first because of a distrust of the government, or out of the belief that a Nod buildup now was just an intimidation tactic, or that a Nod attack could simply be repelled and does not justify a massive offensive war.
The lived experience of GDI citizens would argue against this. You are acting as if these are residents of a real life 21st century democracy. They are not. They are residents of GDI, a nation which has been repeatedly attacked without provocation by Nod over and over for roughly a whole human lifetime.

No one in GDI will be even slightly surprised to learn that Nod was about to launch a massive onslaught against the Blue Zones with copious use of bizarre masterpiece weapons and crazy shit and killbots and ninjas and giant cyborg gorillas with laser eyes and whatever. Nod has done that exact thing at least two or three times within the living memory of most people in GDI society.

I suspect the median GDI citizen is just pleased that this time we saw Nod coming and gave them a good swift kick in the balls, instead of not detecting the onslaught until it had already fallen on us, as happened in 2047, literally just fifteen years ago, the last time this happened.

Nod has been a murderous and atrocity-mongering enemy from the perspective of GDI citizens for as long as almost any of them have been alive. There is widespread popular support for defeating it. This is very different from the situation which obtains in real life circa 2022 where most First World nations are not under realistic military threat.

With the Regency War being an offensive war of choice by the minds of many GDI citizens, it is less public support for the war than in previous conflicts with Nod and the war is very unpopular with a loud sizable minority who resent being called on to sacrifice for a war effort to conquer lands full of people who hate GDI and love Kane which they consider not worthwhile.
By this point, there is significant impact from experience with actual Yellow Zoners (tens of millions of refugees who lived under Nod rule for varying lengths of time before we rolled forward in the mid-2050s, a smaller wave than from Steel Vanguard but still a wave).

It will be apparent to most Blue Zone citizens (apart from Initiative Firsters) that the typical Yellow Zoner is not truly someone who "hates GDI and loves Kane," so much as they are desperate to survive and find praising Kane to be a way of increasing their life expectancy in cities ruled by Nod Confessors.

Likewise, the Nod terrorist attacks may well be seen, not as a consequence of GDI's "war of aggression," but as a consequence of Nod being Nod. Typical GDI citizens really hate Nod. Many if not most GDI citizens have already had to evacuate their home one or more times, as either they or their immediate ancestors must have fled into the existing Blue Zones from what are now the Red Zones.

GDI citizens, from long experience, are mostly well primed to blame all acts of Nod terrorism on Nod, rather than on GDI.

How well is the Brotherhood of Nod doing? This is a complex question. While we tend to speak of the Regency War as a war between all of GDI and a sizable portion of the Brotherhood of Nod, that is not the way the Nod leadership views this war. The goals that Kane, the high-level Nod warlords, and the low-level Nod memberships are seeking in the Regency War are quite different. From the viewpoint of Kane, the Regency War is nothing but an audition to discover the best warlord to serve as his right hand person to help him achieve his ultimate goal of leaving Earth. The loss of strategic Nod buffer territory and the deaths of many of his forces is of no concern to him. The only way Kane could fail to achieve his goal for the Regency War is if every warlord failed miserably against GDI by an equal margin leaving him with no successful warlord or most successful failure to raise up which was very unlikely to happen.
Well, Kane would also have suffered a serious setback if GDI had done so well that it effectively broke the Brotherhood of Nod as a viable military instrument. Much of Kane's bargaining power comes from his control of a vast and loyal army. If Kane were coming to us alone, or with a handful of followers, with the TCN blueprints, we would likely build them, but he would have almost no leverage to ensure that they were built on his terms.

But instead, he has an army of millions and about half the remaining viable territory on Earth loyal to him. This means that he can do a lot more to disrupt our own efforts, and also has more resources and land to offer us to collaborate on the project.

If GDI takes in these refugees, it is a massive burden on the GDI welfare systems that will polarize the Blue Zone public.
Notably, this is objectively true and is an important point to make... But GDI's economy is growing by leaps and bounds (we have taken pains to make it so), with 5-10% GDP growth per year. As such, we have a better chance of weathering the sudden influx of 20% of our population in refugees, many of them disabled or unskilled, than would almost any other nation in all of history.

...

Overall, I think your analysis falls prey to the old truism that "the enemy is always ten feet tall." You largely ignore or bypass reasons why GDI citizens might support the war, or why we might have nothing to lose in the propaganda war in the Yellow Zones, while focusing heavily on the idea that everyone (including GDI citizens) will essentially take Nod's version of events at face value. I'm not saying this is out of dishonesty or desire to side with Nod, I'm sure it's not. But in effect, you are counting every way GDI might be weakened, while ignoring all ways that GDI might be strengthened. That's inevitably going to yield biased results.
 
Imagine thinking that liberal democracy is morally equivalent to a feudal warlord confederation united by their blind worship of a being who has absolutely zero regard for human well-being
This is a strawman. Nobody is making that argument, and you are both derailing the thread and being quite insulting by saying that people are.
...Well, in-universe NOD people may be making that argument, but their bias is obvious, and as such need not be defended.
 
You know you might have had the shadow of a point before this, but... no.

We're in this to save humanity, not kill Nod.
If Nod does not change so dramatically as to be almost unrecognizable (e.g. Kane ordering them to shut up and quit shooting at us), it may prove impossible to save more than a sliver of humanity without killing Nod.

I want to save humanity. If I could save humanity without destroying Nod, I would do so. If I could save humanity by destroying every last bit of Nod, I would do so. If I could save humanity by destroying some parts of Nod and leaving other parts intact, I would do so.

But Nod is going to have to change the way it plays the game, if it doesn't want to be destroyed for the sake of at least trying to save humanity.

Or simply abandoned on the planet to die if we can't save it, which would be no more than the Nod higher-ups and elite special vanguard forces deserve.

There's a reason I keep jokingly having Granger or whoever say "If tiberium goes really crazy, have a plan for evacuating everyone we can get ahold of into space, except Kane, who will have to get out and walk."
 
Remember that Nod subjects are crossing the border to join GDI on purpose; the reverse is generally not true.
To echo this, we had this happening before the regency war. We had the shanty towns popping up around unfinished MARV hubs by people under NOD rule trying to get away to GDI. Also Regency war is ignoring how we had not stopped fighting, in this case I think war is more to the scale (global instead of continental). Because we had throw downs with Krukov, Gideon and Stahl pre regency war during the quest

it may prove impossible to save more than a sliver of humanity without killing Nod.
Caravannsi are already changing in NOD so it looks like we can avoid this.
 
Really, setting aside the general NOD population, you should be shifting your anger to the NOD leadership figures. They're the irredeemable ones actually directing the damage. Treating the general population of a large group in absolutes is a bad call.
 
You know you might have had the shadow of a point before this, but... no.

We're in this to save humanity, not kill Nod.

It would be nice if you would address that point instead of ignoring it.

We are in this to save humanity. The single greatest obstacle to saving humanity is the Brotherhood of Nod. Who murdered Eastern Europe? Nod. Who rang the dinner bell for the Scrin? Nod. Who continues to reject the idea of peace and force us to spend our resources on the military rather than Tiberium abatement? Nod.

Nod is ideologically committed to the destruction of GDI and the "Tiberium Future". Nod factions who deviate from that vision are denounced as "heretics" and attacked for their lack of commitment to the death cult.

You're ignoring the point that Strunkriidiisk was making. Which is that, just as GDI has changed from a neoliberal power structure enforcing oligarchy*, some factions of NOD are changing their perspective on Tiberium. People change their minds. And if they do so because of changing circumstances, that's not hypocrisy.

Now, there probably is a bit of hypocrisy involved, because NOD tends to have some, but likely less than some think.

*And yes, GDI under the administrations prior to TW3 was, according to quest canon, structurally unfair and had a policy of ignoring the megadeaths happening in Yellow Zones due to Tiberium and its consequences. It may not have caused as many deaths as NOD, but it's a "light grey/dark grey" situation.

Because no one's philosophy can change in the face of new circumstances. That's why GDI is still a neoliberal hellhole.

Oh wait.

"Hellhole" is a word that is supposed to mean something. I wouldn't apply it to a society that generally provides food, shelter, and medicine to its citizens, creating Blue Zones where people actually want to live.

I would very much apply it to Yellow Zones where the civilian population doesn't have consistent access to little things like "clean water". Even if it's not intentional, there is definitely some "bothsame" going on here.

You're ignoring the point that Strunkriidiisk was making. Which is that, just as GDI has changed from a neoliberal power structure enforcing oligarchy*, some factions of NOD are changing their perspective on Tiberium. People change their minds. And if they do so because of changing circumstances, that's not hypocrisy.

Now, there probably is a bit of hypocrisy involved, because NOD tends to have some, but likely less than some think.

*And yes, GDI under the administrations prior to TW3 was, according to quest canon, structurally unfair and had a policy of ignoring the megadeaths happening in Yellow Zones due to Tiberium and its consequences. It may not have caused as many deaths as NOD, but it's a "light grey/dark grey" situation.

Murdering Eastern Europe is not "dark grey". It's black. Kane has killed more people than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao put together. Nod's refusal to use their technology for peaceful ends and their active pursuit of world domination has killed billions. GDI might be described as "light grey", but as another poster so aptly put it, Kane's followers are "lapping Genghis Khan".

GDI ignored megadeaths; Nod caused them.

To echo this, we had this happening before the regency war. We had the shanty towns popping up around unfinished MARV hubs by people under NOD rule trying to get away to GDI. Also Regency war is ignoring how we had not stopped fighting, in this case I think war is more to the scale (global instead of continental). Because we had throw downs with Krukov, Gideon and Stahl pre regency war during the quest


Caravannsi are already changing in NOD so it looks like we can avoid this.

You know that you live in a "neoliberal hellhole" when people actively risk their lives to run to your nation. There were refugees arriving in Blue Zones before Granger, when GDI wasn't putting out the welcome mat. Now it's become increasingly clear that many if not most Nod civilians don't actually buy what Kane is selling.

We're not looking at Imperial Japan; we're looking at a loose warlord confederation which hasn't actually inspired their civilians with a deep and abiding hatred of GDI. Only a deep and abiding desire to avoid getting shot by saying what they actually think. Our enemies run an illegitimate warlord state that probably couldn't win elections if Granger showed up, apologized for past sins, and told everyone that they could get an apartment with clean water. All of Nod's propaganda is designed to hide the fact that we've been extending the open hand of peace for the last decade.

Nod officers who are aware of this fact are all criminals against peace, and in a just world they would end up at Nuremberg. As it is, we'll probably end up pardoning most of them after they get more of their subordinates killed in an unwinnable war that will prevent us from saving the civilians who die every day while their masters use the industry that could have saved them to build Wunderwaffen #327.

Nod delanda est
 
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