OK. So what masterstrokes have we seen so far? There were the deltas, Gideons city killing bomb, the one guy getting kane's attention, and the South American guy playing competition level rts while we were on casual.

That's all of them this turn right?

So what weak spots have we seen from these updates?

Our airforce needs a upgrade. We are working on it but firehawks don't cut it anymore.

Our navy needs new and replacement ships desperately.

We need Hallucinogen Countermeasures. They keep using them on defensive chokepoints.

More ablatives since they have laser troops now.

More offensive units in general. Attacking and counter attacking seems to be where we are weak at.

Defensively we are doing pretty well. We have deep crumple zones and have enough shells and fast response stuff set up that we can severely punish any push against us.

Our biggest worry should be subterfuge and deep strike attacks.
 
Yeah, but I think the action for building them entails pushing the lines out further, not building more in already held territory
No. We've done the action repeatedly

Also, I don't think the military feels done. Like, they're still ready to go, and were specifically planning to keep pushing forward. Some of the territories they've fought to take, they took specifically because it threatened to cut Nod warlords' territories into pieces for subsequent follow-up attacks to finish them off.

Now, if next turn indicates that military confidence has fallen off a lot, maybe we should revisit this, but I'm pretty sure the plan is to keep pushing and that doing so would be to our advantage. We feel like we're getting kicked in the shorts here because these are the Nod warlords firing off their masterstrokes, but they're taking some heavy hits too, and our war machine generally lets us shrug off hits and keep going a lot better than theirs does anyway.

It's likely, but I'm not sure, considering that from what we've seen, IF's ideology, while militaristic (favoring defense according to the proposals for the 2057 reallocation), can first and foremost be described as "Blue Zone supremacy," including declaring anyone who was not raised in a BZ to be a member of Nod. It might invigorate the Militarists just as much, if not more.

Edited to add source.
Plus, the next election is gonna be in 2064, by which point the early phase of this war will be old news.

No, because we rolled terribly, so our forces are currently somewhat overextended. Another phase or three of YZ towns will help us hold the chunk of turf we just bit off.
Our rolls weren't terrible, just kind of meh.

Personally, with this latest stunt, my shortlist of Nod targets I want to terminate (and expect to be able to, or at least to make headway) consists of Mehretu, followed by Giddyboi and Krukov's lieutenant who used Order of the Remembrancer.
I don't think we can knock down any of those targets just with this war. What we hopefully can do is severely weaken Mehretu and maybe Gideon down to a level where they don't do much of relevance in the aftermath.

Also also we don't actually have Shells Plants Phase 6, which is 1. a plan goal, and 2. the point at which we can actually spam Fortress Towns willy-nilly according to the QM: (Damn if I can find the qoute though.)
While we might not get it this turn, we're probably gonna find time soon; the only thing likely to stop us from doing it is the urge to get SADN coverage up and the wingman drone production lines live.

My thoughts for the next three Plans is basically:
Next Plan: Lots of Earth Orbit Habitats and Lunar Colonies. Finish building lunar mines and start developing initial Mars and asteroid mines. Build one or two bespoke G-Drive ships.
2nd Plan: Start seeing major development of mines on Mars and in the asteroid belt. Initial development of the Venus Tiberium Management Network. First colonies on Mars.
3rd Plan: Major development of Mars colonies and constructing everything needed to actually know what the hell is happening down on Venus, with maybe the first tiberium mining occurring on Venus. Start building 2nd Industrial Space Station, prioritising G-Drive ships.

Does this make sense to you? I honestly tried to pick things that I'd think would be what GDI's population and parliament prioritise rather than what we'd think was nice.
If we want to do anything interesting on Mars and the asteroids in the Fourth Four Year Plan (that is to say, the next one)... We really, really want an efficient shipyard for gravitic drive ships, unless the performance parameters of the second-generation fusion drives SCED is working on turn out to be much better than I expect.

So given that it sounds like we managed to thrust into and seize large portions of the Yellow Zones, it's going to be interesting to see how this affects the maps.
And as a side note, what actually qualifies a Yellow Zone Territory as a Green Zone?
A Yellow Zone becomes a Green Zone when GDI is confident enough in holding the territory that it considers it "secured" and starts setting up civilian administration.

The term was coined by the playerbase, but official GDI documents started using it after a few years when it became apparent that we were actually committing to permanent economic involvement and civil administration in Yellow Zone areas rather than just abandoning them to Nod as was standard practice before Tib War III.

I'm sure that under the hood there's some kind of bureaucratic rule for deciding whether territory is Yellow Zone or Green Zone, but in practice it just means "Yellow Zone territory GDI actually controls in some meaningful sense."

The areas the Ground Forces advanced into just now may or may not show up as Green Zones on this coming quarter's map. But expect to see 'em soon unless Nod manages to push us back.

OK. So what masterstrokes have we seen so far? There were the deltas, Gideons city killing bomb, the one guy getting kane's attention, and the South American guy playing competition level rts while we were on casual.

That's all of them this turn right?
I'm pretty sure Krukov hitting us with hover battleships was his masterstroke, or the aftermath of his masterstroke.

So what weak spots have we seen from these updates?

Our airforce needs a upgrade. We are working on it but firehawks don't cut it anymore.

Our navy needs new and replacement ships desperately.

We need Hallucinogen Countermeasures. They keep using them on defensive chokepoints.

More ablatives since they have laser troops now.

More offensive units in general. Attacking and counter attacking seems to be where we are weak at.

Defensively we are doing pretty well. We have deep crumple zones and have enough shells and fast response stuff set up that we can severely punish any push against us.

Our biggest worry should be subterfuge and deep strike attacks.
I agree with you on the whole except for the "more offensive units" thing. We have plenty of units that are quite capable on the offensive, it's just that we've mostly been seeing after-action reports from the places where Nod hit us, while GDI's more general broad-front military offensives get glossed over in the narration without so much detail.

With that said, these issues you identify are mostly things we have plans for or are working on. It's just a matter of implementing it all.
 
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...it's just that we've mostly been seeing after-action reports from the places where Nod hit us, while GDI's more general broad-front military offensives get glossed over in the narration without so much detail.
If there's a particular weakness to the recent updates, its that its fairly easy to estimate how much damage Nod did to GDI while the reverse is not true. It's led to the narrative and apparent results being skewed in favor of Nod, even if the OOC word of god was that it was really closer to 50/50. This may be intentional though due to fog of war.

That said, I expect lots of salt from the Negaverse over these results. Nod was supposed to be the one to launch the war, not GDI! :whistle:
 
We should at least finish the current phase of fortress towns. I think Administrative Assistance might be able to do it.
Given that we aren't actually under a lot of pressure in Infrastructure, it's probably for the best to just spend aggressively on fortresses for at least one more turn.

If there's a particular weakness to the recent updates, its that its fairly easy to estimate how much damage Nod did to GDI while the reverse is not true. It's led to the narrative and apparent results being skewed in favor of Nod, even if the OOC word of god was that it was really closer to 50/50. This may be intentional though due to fog of war.
Maybe we'll get a few accounts of, say, GDI smashing up minor Nod warlords in Eastern Europe and forcing their way to the edge of the Red Zone, or rolling up territory in what's left of China where a set of relatively little-explored Nod stuff is going on.

Or Australia. Something cool happening in Australia would be nice.
 
This may be intentional though due to fog of war.
This is absolutely intentional. You have a very good idea what kind of damage you took, because you have very good records, and IC (I am not going to write the overall thing out) you know exactly how many tanks, men, and bunkers you lost. You can sort of feel Nod's losses, but those are intentionally obscured, because when you are bombing targets from high altitude, the difference between a large dumbfire bombardment missile and a modern strategic SAM in transit mode are somewhat minimal.
 
True. The trick is always to make sure that the balance of the narrative roughly matches the balance of what happened on the ground- the fact that masterstrokes are newsworthy and get attention can distort this by pulling the camera's attention disproportionately onto the bits where Nod succeeded. This presumably comes at the cost of places where GDI knows it succeeded despite not having the full details of Nod's exact losses or anything like that.
 
Also. New nod units.

Tiger gana. Really fast. Hit hard. Not as durable?

Technomancers. Control tech.

Super fallen. Really tough assault unit.

Whatever ufo unit we saw. ???

Laser troops. Troops with lasers.

Tiberium spreader bomb. Could kill a city.

Tiberium dumb artillery. Worthless in small numbers. Not used in small numbers.

Plasma scorpion. Upgraded tank. Big punch.
 
Technomancers. Control tech.

Super fallen. Really tough assault unit.
Unique "hero" units, irreplaceable.

Whatever ufo unit we saw. ???
We don't even know if that's a military unit. Could just be Kane's limo.

Tiberium spreader bomb. Could kill a city.

Tiberium dumb artillery. Worthless in small numbers. Not used in small numbers.
Giddyboy bullshit. Result of a masterstroke rather than a standard armament. Terror weapon - unlikely to see rapid proliferation other than among the warlords already predisposed to such tactics, if at all.
 
Krukov's org is kinda impressive to look at. He was able to enter, assault and leave our airspace rather quickly. His airfleet management is too be commended. And to be studied. That was pretty clean.

Gideon is resorting to terror tactics and Wunderwaffen which makes sense given his defeats, I wonder if InOps has an inkling on who could replace him in the North American Theatre. Stahl has learned for the insurgent but hasn't really improved on their example, can't exactly hold onto his gains and is forced to cede ground he fought for. Nothing of Bing yet but she should be menacing some of sealanes soonish.

How much do you think the Caravansai going neutral has delayed NOD logistics? It had to make the Mediterranean and South Seas kinda touch and go.
 
I have a certain respect for Stahl. He took risks but fought smart and knew how to make the most of his strike. Bogging GDI down in refugees is something I feel the thread is overlooking. It's hard to put into words, but I can't find much fault in it. Those are people he was probably struggle to keep alive and weren't contributing to his war, might as well throw them at the newly socialist GDI have them take on the burden. It's still iffy, he could spend less time fighting a war and more building a nation, but given Nod has been very literal when using the term human resources in the past, it could've been a lot worse.

If I were to entertain a fantasy, it'd be Stahl breaking off from Nod and just starting a new nation in South America. I wouldn't mind him being a neutral party we work around down there.

Krunkov is very Russian. I don't know what else to say about him. He hit hard, we hit back pretty good and stole one of his ships. That'll piss him off. I expect this to become a grinding war if this keeps up, which is good and bad. Good because GDI can grind harder then he can no matter how many flying battleships he builds, bad because we'd have to focus to grind him down, and he gives the rest of the Nod Warlords a lot more time to build up and harass us. I don't think Krunkov can win, but he can make it easier for everyone else to have a shoot.

Can we get the last phase of Chicago built while still throwing up fortress towns and rail lines? And still compete Karachi on time? That'd be a good fuck you to Gideon, and for even trying that stunt with the shard launchers I want him hung from a fucking post.

Shout out to the Steel Talons for hitting those rocket sites first and hard. I was always pushing for the Mastodon, but for me at least, it's as much a show of gratitude as it is a plan goal now.
 
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Oh yeah, Glad to see the Talons actually doing things. When they can play to their strengths they are pretty decent. Those Plasma scrops are scary if they burst through shimmer sheilds and ablat coating. Can't take a railgun shell worth spit though. To be fair not much can laugh those off.
 
It will be funny if the NOD eventually falls apart into a scattering of independent warlordships, lol.

At the very least, Stahl and Krukov are definitely inclined to this, as is Atomic Shah if you put pressure on him. Yes, and the Chinese warlord, too, if only for the promise to build inhibitors on their territories.
 
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@Ithillid, as a small request, empty lines between paragraphs are important for readability. Things are very wall of text-y without them, the reader's eye gets lost over and over again. Keeping paragraphs fairly short is also really helpful for readability.
 
Pro-Gamer-Moves
Pro-Gamer-Moves

There was trouble somewhere, Carter could feel it in the air, hear it in aides and officers scurrying in the background, shouting orders, but that was not important at the moment. Carefully, he glued another piece of the Original Series Enterprise model into place, the faint smell of glue being a welcome distraction to the stressed aura of GDI High Command. His section of the table was covered in casting frames, plastic clippings and hobby supplies, as mess compared to the orderly scene of reports on the sections for the other Chief of Staff.

"Carter."

Disturbed he looked up, scanning the room, the video screen on the opposite wall. Eastern Russia, Krukov, time, three massive airships, Initiative forces outgunned...Hmmmmmm....

"Are any of the Strike Regiments in position to assist."

"Yes, two battalions of Zone Troopers are just about entering the correct angle for a fast drop into the battle space." He stated, a plan forming in his head. "Reinforce or harass?"

"Reinforce", the Chief of Staff Air Force elaborated, pointing at the position on the map. "We need them to reinforce front-line south of the city before Nod manages to break through."

Carters eyes fell upon the airship within the satellite image, cracking a smile he turned towards the CoSAF. "What if-"

"Not this time Carter." CoS Ground Forces cut him off. "This is not the time for one of your crazy ideas, please. ORSCTs, south of Murmansk, as fast as possible."

The Admiral hummed saddend and searched for his communicator under his hobby supplies, calling up ORSCT II. While the connection sound rang, he eyed the other CoS carefully as they returned from worrying about him to worrying about BZ-16.

"Yeah Boss, whats up." The voice of Captain Nagase came through the speaker.

"Kei, I am too order you to ready the men for a drop into Russia." He sighed, before grinning. "But I have a better idea."

"Whatever it is, we are in."

"How does Space Force being the first to take over an airship mid flight sound like?"
 
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It will be funny if the NOD eventually falls apart into a scattering of independent warlordships, lol.

At the very least, Stahl and Krukov are definitely inclined to this, as is Atomic Shah if you put pressure on him. Yes, and the Chinese warlord, too, if only for the promise to build inhibitors on their territories.

In general, if you think about it, then this can turn out to be an almost canonical version of the Earth Alliance, in the form of a union of the GDI and the states of conditionally independent warlords.
 
Well, that how one can follow the order and enjoy themselves too. Get them to drop as fast as possible but don't give them any restrictions.
 
Something I have to ask; why wasn't Nod's ability to wage war destroyed from orbit long ago?

To stand up to GDI, Nod needs population centers. Factories, mining operations, power plants, sprawling fields of agriculture, residences. All the stuff needed to keep millions of people alive and producing war materiel.

You can't hide that sort of thing in the quantities needed to be a threat. Building it all underground just isn't viable, especially the agriculture needed to feed large populations. There's no way around needing sprawling surface operations that are going to be immediately obvious to simple recon satellites that can easily see individual buildings and vehicles.

It should have all been systematically blown up decades ago with kinetic and ion cannon strikes, shattering Nod's ability to exist as anything other than an unequipped domestic insurgency. Once GDI achieved the ultimate high ground and Nod demonstrated that it was an existential threat to all of humanity with absolutely no compunctions about horrifying war crimes and attacks on civilian populations, Nod should never have been allowed to have the industrial base necessary to be a threat on the battlefield.

Is it a moral compunction? Men were quite willing to blow up Hiroshima and Nagasaki in a situation far less dire. Moral compunctions tend to fall away when survival becomes an issue and the enemy has demonstrated that it has no restraint or morals of its own.
 
Is it a moral compunction? Men were quite willing to blow up Hiroshima and Nagasaki in a situation far less dire. Moral compunctions tend to fall away when survival becomes an issue and the enemy has demonstrated that it has no restraint or morals of its own.
Bombing civilians from orbit has never been popular in the GDI circles, though striking dangerously near them was a tactic employed.
 
You can't hide that sort of thing in the quantities needed to be a threat. Building it all underground just isn't viable, especially the agriculture needed to feed large populations. There's no way around needing sprawling surface operations that are going to be immediately obvious to simple recon satellites that can easily see individual buildings and vehicles.

Except Nod can hide much of this stuff (underground or through things like stealth generators), and what they can't is civilian or indistinguishable from us
 
Pro-Gamer-Moves

There was trouble somewhere, Carter could feel it in the air, hear it in aides and officers scurrying in the background, shouting orders, but that was not important at the moment. Carefully, he glued another piece of the Original Series Enterprise model into place, the faint smell of glue being a welcome distraction to the stressed aura of GDI High Command. His section of the table was covered in casting frames, plastic clippings and hobby supplies, as mess compared to the orderly scene of reports on the sections for the other Chief of Staff.

"Carter."

Disturbed he looked up, scanning the room, the video screen on the opposite wall. Eastern Russia, Krukov, time, three massive airships, Initiative forces outgunned...Hmmmmmm....

"Are any of the Strike Regiments in position to assist."

"Yes, two battalions of Zone Troopers are just about entering the correct angle for a fast drop into the battle space." He stated, a plan forming in his head. "Reinforce or harass?"

"Reinforce", the Chief of Staff Air Force elaborated, pointing at the position on the map. "We need them to reinforce front-line south of the city before Nod manages to break through."

Carters eyes fell upon the airship within the satellite image, cracking a smile he turned towards the CoSAF. "What if-"

"Not this time Carter." CoS Ground Forces cut him off. "This is not the time for one of your crazy ideas, please. ORSCTs, south of Murmansk, as fast as possible."

The Admiral hummed saddend and searched for his communicator under his hobby supplies, calling up ORSCT II. While the connection sound rang, he eyed the other CoS carefully as they returned from worrying about him to worrying about BZ-16.

"Yeah Boss, whats up." The voice of Captain Nagase came through the speaker.

"Kei, I am too order you to ready the men for a drop into Russia." He sighed, before grinning. "But I have a better idea."

"Whatever it is, we are in."

"How does Space Force being the first to take over an airship mid flight sound like?"
Now. This. This is a true Pro Gamer Move...and not whatever misogynist shit Giddyboy gets up to in a Scorpion tank.
 
It should have all been systematically blown up decades ago with kinetic and ion cannon strikes, shattering Nod's ability to exist as anything other than an unequipped domestic insurgency.
Nod was considered beaten after the Second Tiberium War and killing what, 70% of the population, by bombing everything industrial in the Yellow Zones just to ensure it could never rise up again was understandably not the most popular move.
 
Bombing civilians from orbit has never been popular in the GDI circles, though striking dangerously near them was a tactic employed.
"Sure, these people are trying to kill us all and end the world, but killing them would be immoral. They've got children! Killing them would be wrong, so we're going to let them sit there and keep building weapons to kill us with."

That's a deeply confused sense of ethics right there. It also misses the basic human response to being under threat, which is to let ethical concerns slide in favor of survival.

Humans under serious threat to their lives will not hesitate to kill other humans. It's in our blood. I guarantee you that every one of us is alive now because some of our ancestors killed people to survive.

Under the sorts of circumstances the GDI faces, I don't believe real people would hesitate to level Nod population centers. When it's them or you, real people choose them every time. Survival instinct trumps ethics. That's just who we are. We want to go on living, and when it comes down to it we don't care how many people we need to kill to keep living, or how guilty those people are. This is what it is to be human. For good or ill, when survival is on the line we're not nice.

Except Nod can hide much of this stuff (underground or through things like stealth generators), and what they can't is civilian or indistinguishable from us
To economically compete with the GDI in terms of constructing war materiel, they need a population and infrastructure that somewhat approaches GDI's. That's an absolutely massive land area of stuff to conceal. We're talking hundreds to thousands of square miles of fields and facilities on each continent. Putting it all in bunkers or whatever just isn't viable. Imagine the industrial effort required to put even one entire modern city underground. Carving out that much rock would be an unimaginably slow and labor intensive endeavor.

'Civilians' building weapons or otherwise contributing to an enemy's war effort are legitimate military targets, especially in the total war scenario of this Earth. They've chosen to involve themselves in the war, it doesn't matter whether they're wearing a uniform or not presently shooting at you. They're actively working towards your death.

And I'm not sure what you mean by indistinguishable from us. If recon satellites see a factory and it's not one of GDI's, and the stuff going out the door looks suspiciously like Nod hardware...well, it doesn't take a genius. Same for mining operations and so on. Tracking Nod operations by satellite wouldn't be difficult. Satellite recon is very effective. The people who review satellite imagery all day can pull incredible amounts of information out of it.

As for the stealth generator thing, blanketing every building and road and mining operation with that sort of equipment strains credibility.

Nod was considered beaten after the Second Tiberium War and killing what, 70% of the population, by bombing everything industrial in the Yellow Zones just to ensure it could never rise up again was understandably not the most popular move.
If they were an amorphous insurgency ala Afghanistan I could see it being difficult to target them. But at least at the present time they're bigger than that. They have battle lines, fortresses, logistical supply lines. They have to have whole industrial and population centers that are definitively and obviously Nod. Only a fool willingly allows a demonstrated and implacable enemy to keep the resources necessary to make war. They should be finding factories and mines and roads blown up as soon as they build them.
 
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