Yeah, I think Edmure gets an excessively bad rap a lot of the time. He actually seems pretty competent and caring.
As An Eagle Flies (A House Arryn Quest)
- Thread starter Magoose
- Start date
-
- Tags
- decide the destiny
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
I really want to find a bone to throw at the Greyjoys here. They may be terrible goddamn neighbors, for the most part, but they've been on board with this whole thing longer than anyone besides the Vale and the Crown itself. And I sure as hell don't want to snub them after the fair bit of dying that they are going to be doing.
They are just the sort of people its hard to find Christmas presents for. Marrying into the Riverlands, and thus getting river access through Seagard, would have been dangerous for the rest of us but might have been SOME sort of mellowing bond. Maybe. If you tilt your head and squint. And pray hard enough.
I just don't know what else works, or even what else wouldn't insult them.
They are just the sort of people its hard to find Christmas presents for. Marrying into the Riverlands, and thus getting river access through Seagard, would have been dangerous for the rest of us but might have been SOME sort of mellowing bond. Maybe. If you tilt your head and squint. And pray hard enough.
I just don't know what else works, or even what else wouldn't insult them.
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Too bad his sisters are either crazy, a bit overprotective or just plain old... well not great planners and thinking things through.
- Location
- barking
I mean he married a frey that are not known for their prettiness because Robb decided to break his oath (either for love or having sex) which is something the blackfish wouldn't do
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
We could always take over the Stepstones and give it to them. That could work, let them be Terrors to Essos for a change instead of the Coastlines of Westeros.
Why would Aerys son try to rebel against Aerys? That would just cause more problems in the succession. If Aerys isn't crazy then I don't see a point of rebellion.
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
He could always... be manipulated by some high lord, or Aerys goes insane because something happens to him...
18 years is a long time.
What kind of reason that isn't Aerys crazy a good reason? They got to have some reason or it's just bad PR along with no one supporting him. Like they'd need a very good reason for it to not look like just a plain power grab. Like many lords would be like to know why couldn't the heir just wait to inherit. They'll want to know and it better be good reason or the heir is gone from the succession along with killed.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
I already see a golden age of piracy for them. We are trying to reshape the face of trade on this world and, honestly, we are probably going to be seeing honest-to-god letters of marque. A privateer striking most of the Narrow or Shivering Seas would likely port in White Harbor or, more likely, even Gulltown. Fence your haul, have your boat patched and supplied, drink good ale, and set out again the day the sea calls.
We might not even know that is what we are issuing. Of course you are going to let your allies port with you, and of course you are going to overlook the uglier parts of warfare as long as they benefit you. But if the hot war turns into a cold war its not easy to ask somebody to stop. And if something is too difficult to fight, you sanction it and pretend it was your idea in the first place.
Not that the protagonist would be happy. Vengeance aside, its a bitter pill to swallow. And, again, dangerous.
It would probably be a similar story, writ small with the Sistermen.
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
The Reason we can give them the stepstones is that... well, the Stepstones are almost exactly like the Iron Islands, and guess what has a better, more suitable climate for farming, fishing and other trade related goods that can be grown there, instead of on the Iron Islands.
As for Piracy, considering that... well *Spoilers* The pirates who have been operating on the Stepstones have always been in the pocket of one or more of the Free Cities, with the Pirate kings rising up being the exceptions to that rule, and they are always brutally crushed by the Free cities who want them back under their boot.
You got to love the fact that the Ironborn have been petitioning the kings to do that for decades... now they have a king who might really consider it and sign off on that.
Probably not.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Meaning they're familiar, but can let the Iron Islanders actually start to be self-sustaining, while serving as a base where they can privateer from...
In other words, it's going to take time, but maybe we could see them not being completely amoral, slaving, raping, pillaging assholes?
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Pretty much.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
The Stepstones have similar climate to Sicily or Cyprus, as far as I can tell. Hot and dry, mostly, but broken by seasonal storms. They also probably have a passable native population that gets jockeyed around depending on who is staking their claim that particular day, probably not particularly caring as long as they are away from whatever port facilities are likely to be burned down.
Thralling the population wouldn't be an option from just a purely pragmatic sense. The Ironborn can, however, make a proper entry into feudalism as a ruling class and just have somebody else till the fields. It might severely damage their tradition of keeping thralls, though not eliminate it, just due to reducing the necessity of them. Thralls wouldn't be able to compete.
I'd throw a bone to the Faith by putting out a bounty on slavers and slaves. Slavers, for each one drowned. Slaves, freed. And the Stepstones are probably the best melting pot we would have, to make damn sure we don't destabilize things on the continent itself.
Thralling the population wouldn't be an option from just a purely pragmatic sense. The Ironborn can, however, make a proper entry into feudalism as a ruling class and just have somebody else till the fields. It might severely damage their tradition of keeping thralls, though not eliminate it, just due to reducing the necessity of them. Thralls wouldn't be able to compete.
I'd throw a bone to the Faith by putting out a bounty on slavers and slaves. Slavers, for each one drowned. Slaves, freed. And the Stepstones are probably the best melting pot we would have, to make damn sure we don't destabilize things on the continent itself.
Last edited:
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Yeah, that and the Golden Company boys have been waging genocide on the natives out of fear of them helping us during the war.
Which they have, its how the Ironborn and the Stormlords took Wreckstone and Pebbleton, and how Jon is taking over Grey Gallows right now (The people have been helping because they hate pirates)
And they are paying the price for it.
The Stepstones will actually need to be repopulated because there aren't enough people to reproduce the population.
Probobly, if the Ironborn don't ask for the Island and there isn't a whole new generation of landed nobles on the Stepstone from the Knights.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
The Stepstones are best compared to every single island of Greece. A dozen bigger landmasses and a whole mess of smaller ones.
Now I'd say that we aren't going to be apportioning it out in large chunks if we are landing knights or other nobility. Most of them have limited capacity or incentive to do anything with the land beyond a manor and a couple small hamlets. You end up with Baelish's 'Drearfort', only with some potiential for sunbathing.
If it would be a burden to any one power to get the place on its feet, divide the load. One to the Dornish as a consolation prize for being eaten alive, one (Sunstone, I think, in the CKII mod) to the Stormlanders. Etc. The Ironborn are the only guys with the range necessary to actually do this without being immediately adjacent, though.
I'm surprised that the Golden Company could perform anything resembling genocide. Trying that with island populations is time consuming.
Now I'd say that we aren't going to be apportioning it out in large chunks if we are landing knights or other nobility. Most of them have limited capacity or incentive to do anything with the land beyond a manor and a couple small hamlets. You end up with Baelish's 'Drearfort', only with some potiential for sunbathing.
If it would be a burden to any one power to get the place on its feet, divide the load. One to the Dornish as a consolation prize for being eaten alive, one (Sunstone, I think, in the CKII mod) to the Stormlanders. Etc. The Ironborn are the only guys with the range necessary to actually do this without being immediately adjacent, though.
I'm surprised that the Golden Company could perform anything resembling genocide. Trying that with island populations is time consuming.
Last edited:
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Considering there is only about ten thousand natives in the island... it is pretty easy.
Silveraith
Argent Phantasm
- Location
- Terra Atlantus
Inserted tally
- Location
- barking
and considering they are at least 84,000 men in Mayles army before the war started
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
It's more of an accidental thing on their part, with all that mass conscription they're doing to get more men for the armies and ships.
Population replacement is probably not going to happen if we continue to wipe out armies.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
Ten thousand natives who can head into the mountains and play Iwo Jima once their docks are burning.
I'm not going to worry too much, as callous as it is. With those numbers we could literally just parcel it out to just veterans so we don't have to worry about an upswing in bandits in our own lands after the war. And its way, way below what the islands could support.
Last edited:
Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
But... We still don't know if we're taking over the Stepstones, and who will be taking it over after the war. That will really decide if we're entering the Ricefields of occupation or not.
And Iwo Jima is a bad comparison, I think. Try Saipan, with the wholesale slaughter of the entire islands defending force if they don't surrender.
And the Ironborn are really good at both amphibious invasions and murdering the fuck out of people who don't give them what they want.
- Location
- Germany
Having the Iron Born take control of the Stepstones before we 'civilize' them a bit more would probaly end in disaster in the long term. In a few years time after the war they could use the islands to be even more of a threat to eastern Westeros then they are right now.
That is unless we can somehow convince Aerys or the King to allow the Iron Born to go into the whole Privateer business. But until we solve their whole Old Way thing I don't see it happening. Especially not if thralls are still a thing.
It was mentioned in a post before that we could use them to 'liberate' slaves in Essos but I don't see it happening. These aren't people with modern morals and values, so changing their culture first before even trying to approach this idea could only end in failure.
But that's just my opinion so..🤷♂️