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Age of Strife

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I really hope we spend two actions training Jinah. One of them need to be used to advance Mirande via acquiring Envy as it seems we're not going to be spending time with family.

Please can we actually do SOMETHING to advance the vice and virtue path further with Mirande, it's critical to boosting Mirandes will power and gaining more actions.

This focus on a learning lifestyle trait for something that's so minor league in terms of effect compared to Mirande gaining more willpower and boosting the effectiveness of all her psy powers and biomancy powers especially as they all key off willpower directly is more than a little confusing.

If Mirande can get enough willpower we can actually get Advanced Invigoration going and we get an extra 65+ to all mental rolls including research. +3 to learning doesn't compare to that in any way shape or form.
 
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To those voting for invigorate council or using FT, would it not be better to vote for something like
[]allow Anna to chose between Future telling and invigorating the council

After all, were there not times as Dia when we would have been happy spending an action to gain knowledge a week in advance?
 
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2)
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2) x2

[X] Attend University (3 actions) (synergy with Research as Adviser)
[X] Continue to study and debate religious changes to Grave Tenders (synergy with Attend University)

Changing. More in line with what I want, easier to post it on the phone.
 
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x3
[X] Lesser Future Telling - State (R x6) (giveswarnings of impending short term disasters)

[X] Spend time with Anna and her family
[X] Spend time with Victoria and her family
[X] Spend time with Rowena and her family
[x] Train Jinah - Personal
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
I really hope we spend two actions training Jinah. One of them need to be used to advance Mirande via acquiring Envy as it seems we're not going to be spending time with family.

Please can we actually do SOMETHING to advance the vice and virtue path further with Mirande, it's critical to boosting Mirandes will power and gaining more actions.

This focus on a learning lifestyle trait for something that's so minor league in terms of effect compared to Mirande gaining more willpower and boosting the effectiveness of all her psy powers and biomancy powers especially as they all key off willpower directly is more than a little confusing.

If Mirande can get enough willpower we can actually get Advanced Invigoration going and we get an extra 65+ to all mental rolls including research. +3 to learning doesn't compare to that in any way shape or form.
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Yes but we lack willpower lifestyle options, and if we want to get Double LIfestyle, we need to do this now (as in, before we find Kebhon again. Which could happen any time without warning). We can do your thing at the same time, so I don't see the problem with 2x Mirande Training, 2x Jinah Training, University + Gravetender Debate for this turn.
 
George said:
That's because we aren't spending a personal action to make time!
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I'm saying that no matter what, we can't spend enough time with them to gain traits because we have to keep our identity secret. It's no loss for us to wait a couple of years, the last update indicated to me that we'd be going public relatively soon anyway.

Hangwind said:
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train powers - Adviser (RA x2) X3
[X] Train powers - Adviser (RA x2) x4


[X] Attend University (3 actions) (synergy with Research as Adviser)
[X] Continue to study and debate religious changes to Grave Tenders (synergy with Attend University)
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You and @ninjafish both have misformatted votes. Your x3 and x4 votes seem to have the Train Jinah limits instead of the Train powers ones, so they're not being counted correctly.
 
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2)
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2) x2


[x] Spend time with Anna and her family
[x] Spend time with Victoria and her family
[x] Spend time with Rowena and her family
[x] Train powers - Personal
 
Fumbles said:
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2)
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2) x2


[x] Spend time with Anna and her family
[x] Spend time with Victoria and her family
[x] Spend time with Rowena and her family
[x] Train powers - Personal
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I've argued before that we should do University again so that we can work on getting the scholar lifestyle trait (Because once Kebhon shows up again our chance at getting two lifestyle traits will be pretty much shot), but I would also like to point out that the update indicated that our arguments are having an influence on how Existentialist philosophy is developing.

Which means that we should probably focus on doing that in these next few turns as well, to tune that belief set into something that more fits our goals for the society while it's still young and malleable. (And we get the most benefit out of doing that by staying at university.)

... AND university also helps us with rushing through the basic psychoreactive materials research, which gates almost all of the goodies in psy research.
 
Seventeen said:
I'm saying that no matter what, we can't spend enough time with them to gain traits because we have to keep our identity secret. It's no loss for us to wait a couple of years, the last update indicated to me that we'd be going public relatively soon anyway.



You and @ninjafish both have misformatted votes. Your x3 and x4 votes seem to have the Train Jinah limits instead of the Train powers ones, so they're not being counted correctly.
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Yes, you believe that we cant spend the time to gain traits. You are simply wrong. The family knows that Mirande is back. Your assertions are not backed by any evidence. We spend time with Anna or Victoria and we will be able to either influence their traits or gain traits from them.

That has always been the use for spending time with family members in personal actions.
 
Ekans Ekans Ekans said:
I've argued before that we should do University again so that we can work on getting the scholar lifestyle trait (Because once Kebhon shows up again our chance at getting two lifestyle traits will be pretty much shot), but I would also like to point out that the update indicated that our arguments are having an influence on how Existentialist philosophy is developing.

Which means that we should probably focus on doing that in these next few turns as well, to tune that belief set into something that more fits our goals for the society while it's still young and malleable. (And we get the most benefit out of doing that by staying at university.)

... AND university also helps us with rushing through the basic psychoreactive materials research, which gates almost all of the goodies in psy research.
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Based on what we've heard from AN about the Decadence mechanic and the likelihood of a schism, I don't feel that Mirande's energies are best spent on the faith. I'd rather see a focus on personal cultivation, wrangling our important family, and managing our shiny new apocalyptic apprentice.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Yes, you believe that we cant spend the time to gain traits. You are simply wrong. The family knows that Mirande is back. Your assertions are not backed by any evidence. We spend time with Anna or Victoria and we will be able to either influence their traits or gain traits from them.

That has always been the use for spending time with family members in personal actions.
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I'm fine with spending time with the family after we do the stuff that's time-limited (Influencing Existentialist philosophy to be something maximally suitable, getting Scholar before Kebhon comes back and we're stuck with either a single Lifestyle or a decade of grinding low-impact actions). We also want to get Psychoreactive Materials done ASAP so we can get warding done ASAP. (I'm also pretty sure that having Jinah around should let Alec Gardener do Psy Science without Mirande's help, which in combination with Psychoreactive materials should open up a whole new WORLD of research possibilities that Mirande doesn't oversee directly). University gets us that extra +.5x multiplier on the Psychoreactive stuff.

All in all, we can spend time with the family later, but this stuff is all really time-limited/action bottleneck. So yeah... University should be A-1 priority for the next couple years.
 
You are advocating we spend 12 actions for +3 learning. Schmuck bait doesnt even begin to describe how crappy a trade that is, for that we could have greater AG and greater invigoration with Biomancy 4.

The .5x increase in learning multiplier amounts to 14 rp. How is that even remotely worth while for a single tech slot. When Invigoration would provide double that in rp and cost only 5 actions.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
You are advocating we spend 12 actions for +3 learning. Schmuck bait doesnt even begin to describe how crappy a trade that is, for that we could have greater AG and greater invigoration with Biomancy 4.
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That's only a part of the benefits, and a similar rate as originally expected for willpower for tempered vices. Learning is currently about as important as willpower.
 
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Ekans Ekans Ekans said:
I've argued before that we should do University again so that we can work on getting the scholar lifestyle trait (Because once Kebhon shows up again our chance at getting two lifestyle traits will be pretty much shot), but I would also like to point out that the update indicated that our arguments are having an influence on how Existentialist philosophy is developing.

Which means that we should probably focus on doing that in these next few turns as well, to tune that belief set into something that more fits our goals for the society while it's still young and malleable. (And we get the most benefit out of doing that by staying at university.)

... AND university also helps us with rushing through the basic psychoreactive materials research, which gates almost all of the goodies in psy research.
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AN stated that we already got all the info we need for the debates from one year.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
You are advocating we spend 12 actions for +3 learning. Schmuck bait doesnt even begin to describe how crappy a trade that is, for that we could have greater AG and greater invigoration with Biomancy 4.

The .5x increase in learning multiplier amounts to 14 rp. How is that even remotely worth while for a single tech slot. When Invigoration would provide double that in rp and cost only 5 actions.
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racnor said:
AN stated that we already got all the info we need for the debates from one year.
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We can use debating grave tender philosophy this turn to influence the form Existentialism takes. AN made that pretty clear in the update, that Mirande putting forth her own ideas on how it should work is part of what's catalyzing this debate- people are LISTENING to her. We can get more benefit out of that by working on further university this turn.

More to the point, it's not just +3 knowledge, it's +3 knowledge that we won't be able to get further down the road unless we spend something like a dozen actions on it. Right now it synergizes with a ton of stuff we should be doing anyway. (And it'll probably be +4 learning given that going to university repeatedly should drive our base learning up a bit as well).

So yeah, it's definitely a worthy investment right now. It synergizes with pushing Existentialist Philosophy to a place where we like it, it gives us some extra RP per turn on our #1 research priority, it gives us our first lifestyle trait (Which is good, because we NEED duelist to be the second one. It's the only thing we'll be spending enough actions to get, given that the second lifestyle trait is a LOT harder).
 
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2)
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2) x2


[] Spend time with Anna and her family
[] Spend time with Victoria and her family
[] Spend time with Rowena and her family
[] Train powers - Personal
Ekans Ekans Ekans said:
We can use debating grave tender philosophy this turn to influence the form Existentialism takes. AN made that pretty clear in the update, that Mirande putting forth her own ideas on how it should work is part of what's catalyzing this debate- people are LISTENING to her. We can get more benefit out of that by working on further university this turn.

More to the point, it's not just +3 knowledge, it's +3 knowledge that we won't be able to get further down the road unless we spend something like a dozen actions on it. Right now it synergizes with a ton of stuff we should be doing anyway. (And it'll probably be +4 learning given that going to university repeatedly should drive our base learning up a bit as well).

So yeah, it's definitely a worthy investment right now. It synergizes with pushing Existentialist Philosophy to a place where we like it, it gives us some extra RP per turn on our #1 research priority, it gives us our first lifestyle trait (Which is good, because we NEED duelist to be the second one. It's the only thing we'll be spending enough actions to get, given that the second lifestyle trait is a LOT harder).
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Acquiring 3(base learning is not relevant here, since dualist doesn't slow down the rate at which we get that) learning via lifestyle trait is not worth 9 actions. The fact that it might later take more than 9 actions does not change this. It's not like we're particularly interested in maxing learning, after all.

If it was a diplomacy, martial, or willpower trait, things might be different
 
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racnor said:
It powers the weakest of our combat powers and boosts research. How does it approach WILLPOWER in importance?
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It powers the combat power that gives the by far highest multiplier (precognition), and the reason precognition is weaker than invigoration is that our learning is currently much lower than willpower and precognition is only at lesser. Looking just at the power itself precognition is the best combat power we know of so far. Mind reading isn't bad either.
Research is currently our most important limitation so powering that is already quite sufficient to make learning an important stat.
Learning is also the stat used the most in mixed rolls, like aiming artillery (IIRC martial + learning), acting as forward observer (intrigue + learning), scouting (martial + learning), healing (apparently diplomacy + learning? possibly stewardship instead of diplomacy), deducing facts about people from their actions (intrigue + learning).
And of course learning is also used as the dedicated stat in many rolls, such as working out clues from writing, solving riddles, interpreting scientific data and making deductions in general.
 
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[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6)
[X] Train powers - Adviser (R x6) x2
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2)
[X] Train Jinah - Adviser (RA x2) x2
[x] Spend time with Anna and her family
[x] Spend time with Victoria and her family
[x] Spend time with Rowena and her family
[x] Train powers - Personal
 
People 12 personal actions to maybe get the scholar (+3 learning) trait is not an efficient use of time. We can get at least 2 vice traits from family quite easily, I urge you to reconsider voting for university.
 
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