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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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Wouldn't Homura distort harder if Madoka distort? Even if you can't I'm sure Homura will find a way to distort harder.
 
Metarite said:
Kinda worried about Madoka now though, we should catch up with her asap
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She's next on my list of future distortions characters we need to have a long talking explanation with, Hitomi is tied with her though, and the parents of all the girls are right behind, the masquerade don't serve us, it serves Kyubey.

Gun and Powder said:
Wouldn't Homura distort harder if Madoka distort? Even if you can't I'm sure Homura will find a way to distort harder.
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It depends on how happy Madoka would be if it happens, unfortunately, as currently known there are no ways to distort with a happy mindset, so we should make sure to listen to her and help her go through these difficult times so that she isn't in the kind of mindset Carmen preys on.

I want to inform the parents to allows the girls to get a stronger network that they can rely on, Kyubey discourage it to make them vulnerable, I want to encourage it to remove this vulnerability.
 
All distortion or ego awakening needs is a revelation.
You realize the desires in your heart, But because human heart is easily fooled, you can get to the wrong conclusion with the desire you think you want, That leads you to distortion.
But when you realize your true motivation for existing, the one that's from the deepest pit of your heart, The one you can confidently say is the core of your being.
that gives you E.G.O
It doesn't matter if you're happy or sad, the only deciding factor between distortion or ego is the result of the revelation.
...or...should I say, the realization.
 
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kaillll said:
All distortion or ego awakening needs is a revelation.
You realize the desires in your heart, But because human heart is easily fooled, you can get to the wrong conclusion with the desire you think you want, That leads you to distortion.
But when you realize your true motivation for existing, the one that's from the deepest pit of your heart, The one you can confidently say is the core of your being.
that gives you E.G.O
It doesn't matter if you're happy or sad, the only deciding factor between distortion or ego is the result of the revelation.
...or...should I say, the realization.
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Can you source this? The last thing I heard about the went a tad different.

If you pass the emotional threshold with some sort of clear goal or desire, the path splits; if you are willing to give up even your humanity in its pursuit, you distort. If you want to achieve it as a human, you obtain E.G.O.

I need to ask where the people who told me got that from, but I believe it was Leviathan.
 
My personal belief(edit: after including the facts and behaviors from distortion victims and ego holders I know about
I forgot to mention that, oops.
I haven't Touched leviathan since...ch13? because I heard of the translation is halted And I want to wait until something is finished for at least it's clare that its gonna continue before I read it.
So sorry, if I caused misinformation, but if that's the case it is still pretty fascinating.
 
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Even though I'm not sure we should be taking this vote from Carmen's biggest fan, I'll vote with the group.

[X] (Personal) Yes
[X] (Portrayal) Misguided
[X] (Advice) Caution
 
questioningmeme said:
Oswald, Greta, the Dog-Chicken-Donkey, and Tanya all seems quite content and happy with their current lot. The Pianist himself was mesmerized by his own music when he distorted too.
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Oswald is happy with it after, but seems to have distorted because he was unhappy with normal society, Greta is happy now, but distorted because she saw what the other eight chefs were doing and thought it a colossal waste, we don't know exactly how bremen distorted except they were negotiating with Argalia.

The Pianist… do you have a citation of him being mesmerized before he distorted rather than after?

All the examples we see that have concrete information shows the person going trough a crisis when distorting, Cat in wonderlab, Phillip, what Greta explains, how Xiao goes from almost distorting to getting EGO, Roland's almost distortion during the reception of the black silence, what Pluto explains, Argalia.

All evidence points to distortion requiring a bad mental state at the time of it happening.
 
The vote looks like it's going the same direction so far, so why not cement it further?

[X] (Personal) Yes
[X] (Portrayal) Misguided
[X] (Advice) Caution
 
In fact, becoming Distorted and becoming happy are not related to each other. Phillip, for example, doesn't look happy at all.
 
Philip starts being a bit more happy (or I guess less sad?) after he got evicted from the Library the...5th time?

Distorted Philip 2.0 actually got back on his feet again.

Though who knows how the 2/3 remaining parts crying children is doing nowadays so him being depressed might still be correct.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
In fact, becoming Distorted and becoming happy are not related to each other. Phillip, for example, doesn't look happy at all.
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Not helped by him losing the two parts of him that are actually about what he wanted to do (he wanted to go in a corner and forget the world while crying, the only part of him that survived the library the first time was… the part that can't speak or cry but is perfectly aware of the world, talk about irony)
 
The guy might be doing better now that Salvador and Yuna are around to smack some senses into him again...

Or those two might be hired to murder him because this is Project Moon.
 
questioningmeme said:
Philip starts being a bit more happy (or I guess less sad?) after he got evicted from the Library the...5th time?

Distorted Philip 2.0 actually got back on his feet again.

Though who knows how the 2/3 remaining parts crying children is doing nowadays so him being depressed might still be correct.
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If you look at his book after he joined the Reverberation Ensemble, you will see that Philip is actually pretty miserable after joining the Ensemble, even if he never expresses it as such.

I followed your troupe in order to find a way to be happy, but what good did it do for me? Staying with you only exacerbated my suffering, defeating the purpose of joining you in the first place.
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I kinda thought that he was being less passive during the Distorted Ensemble fight, with his figure now also embodying the flames that his partial EGO had. But looking at what he says, it seems that he was pretty much just reacting to how close he is to his wish for a world where he (and others, or so he claims) no longer needs to suffer under the expectations of others.



Naron said:
Can you source this? The last thing I heard about the went a tad different.

If you pass the emotional threshold with some sort of clear goal or desire, the path splits; if you are willing to give up even your humanity in its pursuit, you distort. If you want to achieve it as a human, you obtain E.G.O.
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I think what separates distortions from people who manifests EGOs is just a singular point: whether they completely give in to their base desires. In terms of the lore, it would be giving in to what Carmen is saying to them.

The Ensemble basically all just wanted to follow Argalia in order to create a world that suits their desires.

Yan, upon learning the truth behind the prescripts and the futility of his actions, wanted to completely reject the guilt of being the Messager of the Index.

Philips wanted to hide away from the world and the harsh reality, choosing to no longer see, hear or speak to escape his flaws.

Xiao, being the clear exception to the whole Distortion fiasco, is an interesting case study. I will do an analysis of what she says during her reception.

Miris: Is it because Chun and the other Fixers are dead? Is that why you're acting like this?

Xiao: You would be right. At first, I thought I only had to care about my own safety.
As long as I could get my hands on Lowell's book...
I decided that I wouldn't care about my surroundings, even if that meant I would have no one to rely on once everything was over.
But, as I saw my colleagues die out one by one, my mind began to waver...
Am I truly going down the righteous path?
Is it truly right as a human being to think of myself, and only myself?
When the many of those who trusted me and followed me have perished, should I over look their deaths and keep moving forward...?
If my selfishness is causing harm to others, shouldn't I stop it before it's too late? Shouldn't I save those who still have a chance?
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Note here that her base desire here is not to take revenge for Lowell, but to recklessly and selfishly fight to the bitter end in the Library, regardless of the inevitable sacrifice of those under her. So Carmen then decides to pop in.


Xiao: Don't you... hear a sound?
A warm and charming voice.. almost as if it were out of this world...
...
...What?
...You're wrong. No, maybe there is truth to what you said...
Are you calling me selfish?
...No, I don't think so.
...
A human cannot live alone. No man is an island entire of itself.
They need someone else... Yes.
Someone whom I will keep alive. Someone who will become the reason for me to keep no living, no matter what...
Someone can be alive because I am there with them... As that person can live thanks to me, I myself should not expire.
A way to protect you all and myself at the same time...
I shouldn't die. By cherishing myself, I am cherishing the people around me...
Therefore, what you're saying... isn't right. I won't be deceived by your temptation...
Yes. I suppose this is what you meant when you said a selfish mind shouldn't be viewed negatively.
...

(To Miris) I'm sorry. I had let my own emotions overwhelm me and failed to lead you rightly.
This will be the last time I apologize to you and everyone else.
Miris... I'm still in the dark, and I cannot see ahead.
I'm frankly afraid, and I might stray onto wrong paths sometimes.
However, I trust myself to return to the proper way as I stoutly press onward. Just because I cannot see the way ahead, does not mean that a way doesn't exist.
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At this point, Xiao had a one-sided conversation with Carmen. At the start, Carmen states to Xiao that her selfish mind shouldn't be viewed negatively. Xiao rebutted here, pivoting her focus to protecting Miris instead, all the while claiming that she would stay alive and keep him alive in order to cherish the people around her. A completely hypocritical claim since she still chose to go back to the reception after this. Carmen knows this, and so she waits until Miris is dead...

Xiao: ...
You have all died. No one remains by my side.
In here, you fought with me till the end... and perished.
I feel lonely as a dragon soaring in the air, my heart heavy with regret.
...
I only see darkness. I can't see a step ahead.
Where must I go? Where does the courage to put one's foot forward come from?
What did you believe in so firmly until your last moments?
Was it the hope that we will emerge victorious... a strong leader... or the goal of earning the books...?
I sadly won't be able to hear your answers now.
However, as the breath of life momentarily rests inside us before it scatters to return to its source... I will meet you again one day; and I may ask you my question then.

...
You again. You're one persistent conversationalist, are you not.
...I won't collapse or succumb to fear out of the despair I brought onto myself.
There's nothing that a human... that I cannot overcome.
I believe that I will reach the ideal consequence if I remain steadfast and proceed with perseverance... I sincerely, ingeniously believe this.
...No. There's no need to be disheartened in the face of such a thing. Without despair, hope won't be needed either.
Fear is born for there is hope, but bravery is born because there is fear...
Without all these, there is no life. And what is life without a reason to live...
So why would I not bask in this sensation of vitality?
I will still fight for my own sake.
Not to disregard the colleagues who gave their lives for me.
...No. Rather, I would be disregarding their sacrifice if I gave up here because of what happened to them.
...
I don't see myself ever agreeing with your words.
A lone tree cannot form a forest on its own, you say... An interesting tale.

*Manifests EGO*

Even if I am alone, night will come.
And every night is followed by dawn.
A mere star that will fade cannot hope to best the light of the rising sun.
Be prepared; for today, a Star of the City shall be gone.
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Here, Carmen calls Xiao out on her hypocrisy, trying to make Xiao distort from despair from the fact that she couldn't even protect the one person she said she would. But surprisingly, Xiao have a completely different and renewed view on the matter.

Yes, she did basically lead her colleagues to their death, all in order to fulfill her own selfish desire. But no, she will not just forget their sacrifices and go into a frenzy. She will not just give in to her despair and fear.

Even if she is alone, she chooses to live, to fight for herself, and to honor those who fell due to her cause. This viewpoint allows her to manifest her EGO over distorting.

Interestingly, near the end, Carmen actually flip-flopped on her stance, mirroring Xiao's previous (rather hypocritical) argument that a person cannot do everything alone by themself, whereby before she was encouraging Xiao to be selfish. Perhaps she got a bit desperate in her attempt to try to distort Xiao.

To end off, some back-and-froths from Angela and Roland regarding Distortions and EGO.

*After Yan's Reception*
Angela: That demonstration made it clearer. It appears that the breakdown of a belief one firmly held can serve as a catalyst for the Distortion.


*After Xiao's Reception*
Angela: I've been thinking about the distinctions between E.G.O and the Distortion after watching Phillip and Xiao.
The two were similar yet different. They clearly had some things in common, but the contrast was apparent as well.
I think there is something that can restrain one from reaching the point of the Distortion.
They both had highly unstable emotions, enough to touch the threshold of manifesting E.G.O or Distortion. And those emotions had a similar nature.
Egoism...

Roland: As in the mindset of only caring about your own interest?

Angela: That's it. The two interpreted that same selfishness in disparate ways, however.
Because that selfish mind had the potential to change the self, the two were able to take a form resembling E.G.O, albeit incompletely.
Philip's mindset was flawed even in his awakening, however. He still had distrust in the back of his mind.

Roland: I think Xiao had the same problem, too. She didn't look like she had full conviction at the start. It took some time for her to make up her mind.

Angela: That's where the two differ. As far as I can see...
...It had something to do with the voices only they could hear, I believe.

Roland: The voices, huh...

Angela: Indeed. Philip's mind was in such a vulnerable state, even Oswald's words could crack him.
I don't know what the disembodied voice Pluto told Philip to "pay close attention to" said, or if the voice really was the last straw that broke him...
But I could speculate a little based on what we saw of Xiao.
She didn't give in to the voice whispering to her... Instead, her will solidified further.

Roland: And she managed to fully manifest her own E.G.O.

Angela: Right. She was able to resist the voice's snare... I wonder why she could.

Roland: It might be what she said when she first came here... The precious things and whatever.
All the things that motivate humans to live, to be precise.
I guess it's not something that can be pinned down to one specific element. Each person cherishes different things.
Maybe E.G.O is the thing that keeps one from crossing the line of the Distortion.
It's like walking a tightrope at all times. One wrong step and you crash to the ground.
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Edit: Fixed some errors and added a bit more detail to Philips' base desire.
 
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While I can't be completely certain about Canon, I do have some basic rules in what decides EGO/Distortion. I can't reveal them here, of course.

We have a lot more examples of Distortions than EGO, so figuring out the common lines between them is easy enough. A Distortion is just an idea taken to an extreme where it becomes destructive, to the individual, to everyone around them, or both. EGO we don't see nearly as much, so it was a bit more difficult to hammer out where it's supposed to come from.
 
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So... let me get this straight, Distortions are basically overexagarated charicatures of people, while EGO is like a person's most inward desires given form?
EDIT: Oh yeah my vote
[X] (Personal) Yes
[X] (Portrayal) Misguided
[X] (Advice) Caution
 
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Seams of Reality said:
So... let me get this straight, Distortions are basically overexagarated charicatures of people, while EGO is like a person's most inward desires given form?
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A little but not completely?

Distortions, the ones we see at least, have a big tendency to take one idea and run with it to the bitter end: The Pianist wanted to play at all cost and ended up killing all around to make them contribute to his piece, The puppeteer wanted to resurrect his son by making him a new body and so got the ability to use corpses to make puppets he can control (that he consider still alive), Pluto was screwed over by the unfair contracts of the city and so became a literal pact making devil with contracts who takes *very fine prints* to the next level, Elaine was an emo bitch and became an even more emo bitch.

EGO is more complicated and more unknown but do seems to relate to the owner desires: Kali wanted to protect and got armor, Xiaio felt like a falling dragon and got the ability to make you feel as if a fire dragon just fell on you, Taii (from wonderlab) wanted to see their dead probable love again and allow Cat to come back from being distorted so they got a sword that does White damage (the kind you use to remove panics in LobCorp) and synchronized enough with the Rose suit of Armor that they could hear their dead partner that was absorbed by it at least a little.
 
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