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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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They are two sides of the same emotion coin essentially.

Nyarky said:
The Pianist wanted to play at all costs and ended up killing all around to make them contribute to his piece
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Seeing the Pianist's story again...
When his melody lured my heart -- only then my seat has truly been stolen. Why can't I capture people's minds? Why can't I capture my own mind… Everything was in shambles.
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It seems to be a bit more than that.
He was enraptured by "Mr. Nobody" who played Piano as a hobby. Even though it was everything to him.
It's not so much that he wanted to play at all costs, but that he wished his music would capture people's attention and comfort them like how "Mr. Nobody"'s melody did (Thanks to the Seed of Light, of course, he mentioned earlier that it only really came into his mind after the three white nights).

He cursed not just the City who said that his music sucks. No, in that moment, he fell to despair when he realized he sucked for real.

I guess...the best way to put it in my mind, is that when you distort, you can no longer carry yourself. And after that, it's just your power carrying you.
While E.G.O, is when both of your legs are broken, yet you still drag yourself forward nonetheless.

Both of them are given form from one's desires. But with a Distortion, your desire dominates (Or more like your Desire is in control of the wheel) instead of you more than E.G.O would.
 
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Metarite said:
Xiao
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It's interesting that, going by the conversation's flow, a Distorted Xiao would give up on her stated goal of taking revenge for Lowell and retrieving his book. Just like Yan gave up on opposing the Prescripts' will.

This is in sharp contrast to Carmen's MO regarding Angela, whom she encouraged to keep to her commitments - ruining A's dream and becoming human. Some members of the Ensemble also don't look like people who've "given up" on any big desire of theirs - Greta, Bremen, Elena come to mind.

All of which is to say, I still don't really understand what the criteria for E.G.O and Distortion are.
 
to me, Carmen is pulling from their surface desire, or the impulse of that specific moment.
For Angela, Her decision of choosing to take revenge against ayin is the impulse of that moment, The moment right after the seed of light when everyone gets to have a happy ending, but her, the "why do I, the one who worked most hard for this shit show, doesn't get a closure."
for xiao, Right before that moment she is contemplating about giving up because she tried again and again, but it just doesn't work, so For xiao to *** off and become a distortion that gets to live, Carmen wants to push for that thought of giving up, dut she gives up after seeing it didn't work.
To me, Distortions is all those who have succumbed to the base desire or the impulse of the moment( For example, Yan gives up after founding out the prescript already knows what he was doing, So he choose to stop thinking and just follow the prescript because why think when everything you could have done is already predetermined, That is what he thinks at the moment, the impulse of giving up and just accept it), and those that gets ego is those how found the true reason for their continued existence and motivation. ( For example, philip gets a partial ego because he stopped thinking that He is doing this for Others, He is fighting for himself, Because he wants to get his closure.)
Distortions is victims of impulse, an inrational decision that sealed the pact.
Ego holders are those who found their true motivation, no matter what it is.
 
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diplomacy said:
It's interesting that, going by the conversation's flow, a Distorted Xiao would give up on her stated goal of taking revenge for Lowell and retrieving his book. Just like Yan gave up on opposing the Prescripts' will.
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This is what I meant by the whole "E.G.O is you walking on your own will, while Distortion is your power moving your body for you".

If you give up but still harbor strong emotions within you, you will distort. But if you keep on moving forward, with those same emotions swelling up inside you, you will manifest E.G.O.

Funnily enough.

Roland was technically correct even though he said otherwise. "One Bad Day" is the first step for you to become a Distortion/manifest E.G.O. The only reason there was fewer of them before the True Ending was that only 3 White Nights popped up. Instead of all 7.

We ultimately arrive at the same point Angela did.
We first need "Highly Unstable Emotions", to which the game supports with the Library's emotion mechanic.
However, said emotion must be of an egoistic nature. As in the mindset of only caring about your own interest.

The difference between Distortion and E.G.O is that said selfishness is two different routes.
With E.G.O, you must make up your mind, and have absolute conviction in said selfishness.
With Distortion, doubt itself dominates your existence.

This is why Yan distorted when he gave up on freedom. Doubt literally overwhelmed him. Not only did he fell into despair, he also started questioning everything he ever did.

TLDR; Distortion = Big Emo + Big Doubt. E.G.O = Big Emo + Big Conviction.
Where lesser distortions like one of the bloodfiends fall into in this case...I guess they are more or less similar to Yan's case of distorting, due to their world view being called into doubt through the blood. Which would fit the whole Big Emo + Big Doubt category.
 
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questioningmeme said:
Where lesser distortions like one of the bloodfiends fall into in this case...I guess they are more or less similar to Yan's case of distorting, due to their world view being called into doubt through the blood.
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I still really don't think the bloodfiends are the same category as Distortions, for one, one of them distorted, twice, and for two, they are more implied to be the result of an abnormality fucking around and spreading his legend and it's effects, they are too consistent too, when a big part of distortions is the individuality of each of them.

Also, why would everyone call distortions a new phenomenon, including one arbiter*, if bloodfiends already were distortions.

*Zena tells that *distortions will integrate into the city landscape*, that's not the talk of someone talking about a new facet of an already known thing, but someone talking about something completely new.
 
Byproducts of abnormality maybe have some same smells as distortions, Since the city people don't really know abnormality, and distortions are the only thing wondering around for now. Moses think they are distortions, not abnormality byproduct.
At least the old ones, the new ones I don't really know.
 
Nyarky said:
I still really don't think the bloodfiends are the same category as Distortions, for one, one of them distorted, twice, and for two, they are more implied to be the result of an abnormality fucking around and spreading his legend and it's effects, they are too consistent too, when a big part of distortions is the individuality of each of them.
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Hey bring it up to Nemov, Distortion Detective Moses call them Distortions.

They can be reversed like normal distortions too.

Apparently there also "consistent" distortions like the case of the balloon head people, which isn't related to any bigger distortions, but just a bunch of overstressed people have their heads bloated up like balloons.
 
ehhhh....
I feel those who popped out before the seed of light is abnormality byproduct, after that is a mix of both Distortion phenomenon and Nosferatu, That is why when communicating with an old bloodfiend, they said they are not distortions because to them they are not.
 
questioningmeme said:
Hey bring it up to Nemov, Distortion Detective Moses call them Distortions.

They can be reversed like normal distortions too.

Apparently there also "consistent" distortions like the case of the balloon head people, which isn't related to any bigger distortions, but just a bunch of overstressed people have their heads bloated up like balloons.
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Is there any evidence whatsoever that non-distortion bloodfiends (people can become bloodfiends via distortion) can be reversed like that? I imagine that distortion bloodfiends have a much more varied appearance/abilities than the normal ones.
 
diplomacy said:
It's interesting that, going by the conversation's flow, a Distorted Xiao would give up on her stated goal of taking revenge for Lowell and retrieving his book. Just like Yan gave up on opposing the Prescripts' will.

This is in sharp contrast to Carmen's MO regarding Angela, whom she encouraged to keep to her commitments - ruining A's dream and becoming human. Some members of the Ensemble also don't look like people who've "given up" on any big desire of theirs - Greta, Bremen, Elena come to mind.

All of which is to say, I still don't really understand what the criteria for E.G.O and Distortion are.
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According to Roland, the separation is just like walking a tight rope; it's really easy to slip off the rope and fall to the distortion side at any time.

I actually think that Carmen was actually going for a 'Look, all your friends are dead thanks to you. But hey, you get to do what you wanted from the start and be the lone raging dragon now. Though if you did that from the start they wouldn't have needed to die' approach.

If Xiao chose to continue, but with a mindset that she no choice but to do so, after all the sacrifices made, she would have likely distorted here into a dragon, with the sole motivation of fighting (and likely perishing in) the Library.

If Xiao did choose to give up, she probably would have distorted too thanks to the breakdown of her beliefs. I think it's unlikely that she would have become a dragon, but something similar to Distortion Phillip, a mere shell of her EGO, reflecting her new wish to give up.

And so, Carmen got totally blind-sided by how Xiao was still rail-roading on the first path, yet somehow still having a positive emotion and a mindset where the sacrifices emboldened Xiao's will instead of completely crushing it.


Speaking of which, I just cannot let go of the 'a lone tree cannot form a forest' line. I just kept thinking about it the entire day. Like, this one line opens up a peek to a rather hilarious result of Carmen facing the greatest unknown of her entire life: failing a persuasion skill check.

----- Below is a possible rendition of Xiao's and Carmen's back-and-froths -----
Carmen: Awww. Look, all your friends are dead now. Oh well, at least now you're free to rampage all you want.
Xiao: Shut up.
Carmen: Perhaps if you done so earlier, they wouldn't have to die like this.
Xiao: ...I won't fall to despair of my own making.
Carmen: Of course you won't. Now, go ahead and become a lovely, lonely dragon~
Xiao: There's nothing I can't overcome as a human. As long as I persevere, I'm sure I can reach the right outcome.
Carmen: ...What are you talking about?
Xiao: A person face fears only when they have hope, but within them too lies the bravery needed to face such fears.
Carmen: Where are you going with this?
Xiao: Without all these, there is no life. And no meaning to living.
Carmen: ...Did you forget about your friends? How they died despite their bravery, all thanks to you?
Xiao: I will still fight for my own sake. But I will not disregard their sacrifices to get me here.
Carmen: What!? You can't just pull a power of friendship here when your friends are literally dead, thanks to you no less! Are you even listening to me?
Xiao: ...I don't think I can ever agree with your words.
Carmen: Oh, you are. Think about this carefully, Miss Xiao. You can't possibly think that you can do this by yourself. A lone tree doesn't form a forest by itself after all. You came all the way here with your friends to do this, but just look at what happened to poor Miris over ther—
Xiao: WITNESS ME!
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Hmm, ya, I wasn't too sure how her speech would be like. Her little spiels towards Angela during the realization's intermissions were a lot more cynical so I went towards that direction. Well, there was quite a bit of exaggeration put into there as well, I just really entertain the idea of Carmen going OOC just from how unexpectedly hard-headed Xiao is.
 
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Metarite said:
Her little spiels towards Angela during the realization's intermissions was a lot more cynical so I went with towards that direction.
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Thats mainly because with Angela its personal. Since Angy is basically Carmen's daughter and all.

Carmen has always been more...open...to people she is close to, like Ayin or Angela.

Her demeanor is a lot more fake happy when shes around her "followers"/"potential followers".

Plus, Carmen/Angela's realization is the moment where Angela basically attacked Carmen's old memories, so its reasonable for her to be a bit more pissed off at Angela.
 
questioningmeme said:
With Distortion, doubt itself dominates your existence.
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While this explains Philip and Yan nicely, I don't think it generally describes all distortions. For example, the circumstances behind Tanya and Greta are not explicitly shown, but doubt doesn't seem likely as a driving factor for them to come out with the mindsets they did. Your earlier post about desire taking the wheel was more accurate I think.

My own take on it is that it has to do with a rejection of self in favor of desire. To be precise, I'd say it is a belief that the self is inadequate, worthless, or irrelevant for the goal of fulfilling one's desire. It doesn't necessarily come from self-doubt (though that's a common source), because one could just be prioritizing an ideal or higher cause above the self.
  • Philip: No longer wants to suffer from the expectations placed on himself. He tried to move forward prior to distortion, but lacked self-conviction.
  • Yan: Sees self as a mere extension of the City. No longer has to blame himself or anyone, because everything was preordained.
  • Tanya: No matter the individual, might makes right. She herself has no qualms with dying to opponents stronger than her.
  • Greta: Part of the Eight Chefs, who were obsessed with taste to the point of cooking themselves to death. Granted, she didn't follow suit, but from her dialogue it might've had to do with seeking out a taste that could not be obtained from herself or any City folk.
  • Homura: Sacrifices self for Madoka. Has crippling self-worth issues from countless cycles of failure.
  • Kyoko: Desires penance. Downplays her own pain to avoid being a burden on Mami and the others.
Based on that, EGO would manifest from conviction that the self and one's own will is capable of achieving one's desire, no matter the obstacles.

Hence Xiao saying things like, "I believe that I will reach the ideal consequence if I remain steadfast and proceed with perseverance... I sincerely, ingeniously believe this." And the Red Mist's page mentions a bit about Kali obtaining EGO as well, which was somewhat different but somewhat similar. She thought of Carmen's unwavering (up to that point) will, and held faith that protecting her would be able to change the City.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Lepidoptera on Feb 3, 2023 at 11:52 PM, finished with 54 posts and 15 votes.
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Well, that's rather definitive.

As for the questions about EGO/Distortion, you could just try asking Carmen. Sure, she's going to be biased as hell, but as far as practical experience and mechanical understanding goes there really isn't anyone better.
 
Metarite said:
If Xiao chose to continue, but with a mindset that she no choice but to do so, after all the sacrifices made, she would have likely distorted here into a dragon, with the sole motivation of fighting (and likely perishing in) the Library.

[...]

And so, Carmen got totally blind-sided by how Xiao was still rail-roading on the first path, yet somehow still having a positive emotion and a mindset where the sacrifices emboldened Xiao's will instead of completely crushing it.
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So the only difference is that Distorted Xiao regrets causing her coworkers to die, as opposed to E.G.O Xiao, who owns that decision, and would totally do that again? In that case, I think I actually prefer the distorted version, as weird as it sounds.

Lepidoptera said:
Adhoc vote count started by Lepidoptera on Feb 3, 2023 at 11:52 PM, finished with 54 posts and 15 votes.
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Well, that's rather definitive.

As for the questions about EGO/Distortion, you could just try asking Carmen. Sure, she's going to be biased as hell, but as far as practical experience and mechanical understanding goes there really isn't anyone better.
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I didn't know we can just talk to her like that, I thought only distortions could hear her.
 
Suleverf said:
To be precise, I'd say it is a belief that the self is inadequate, worthless, or irrelevant for the goal of fulfilling one's desire.
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So doubt. It ultimately comes down to that.

Doubt itself comes in so many forms, trying to choose precisely which one is pointless when there are so many different personalities at play.

Which is why I just generalized it as doubt.

Whether its doubt in yourself, doubt in your abilities, doubt in those around you, or any other kinds of doubt.

Those like Tenya and Greta, are irrelevant. Distortions often aren't exactly the easiest to read post distorting. We would need to directly see why they distorted before you can judge them like that. You don't distort without Doubt based on the sample pool we have. And unless more evidence comes out on the distorting process that says otherwise, doubt itself is backed up by Angela's analysis on why.

Your E.G.O analysis is literally what I said, Emotion + Conviction manifest E.G.O. So there's not much to discuss more there.
 
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