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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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Yeah.

Don't forget. God Delusion is the representation of a god no one even remembers.

Changing all of humanity to kill a bunch of concepts is mega-wasteful. Plus, it might not even work.

Lurker183839 said:
For better/worse, isn't DoSaM unfinished? Might be able to change things then if we make enough progress now
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Yeah, but I don't think we can.

It's the problem of a human trying to tell a whale how to live its life better. You can't tell BASICALLY GOD, how she should act based on human viewpoints.

X won't be able to change the fact that she literally turns the entire planet into a sea of decay if she goes to the therapist. X won't change the fact that whenever she meets someone in her DoSaM form, she would be able to literally see everything about them from the moment they are born.

X won't be able to change the fact that she ultimately is, a monster who will doom the world if left unchecked.

An unfinished Abnormality probably requires EVENTS and CONCEPTS to complete it.

If it's just something as simple as words, Mami, Yuma, Sayaka, Homura, and Madoka would easily let X become better already.

But currently? This whole battle with NT, and the fact that Homura Distorted? This will actually help DoSaM towards a completed state.
 
Mind elaborating? I think it's a mentality issue all things considered, DoSaM isn't anywhere near Ayin's level (of darkness), nor does she really know Fixers
 
No...I just realized why we didn't obtain the White Ordeal yet...

I was thinking that, with how similar X's thought process is to the Head, why doesn't she have the White Ordeal?

But I realize the condition to unlock that particular Ordeal. REVOLUTION.

The White Ordeal appeared during the last stretch of the Seed of Light, right when the Seed of REVOLUTION was on the verge of finally being planted.

X's current mindset, that There is no Outside, is impossible to fit the REVOLUTION requirement of the White Ordeal.
 
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It's more like the white ordeal represents the exactly everything revolution wants to kill.
aka, the hierarchy of the city and the claws of the head.
 
Yeah. That's literally what I said.

The Ordeals are problems or WERE problems that would oppose the people who want to create a REVOLUTION against the Head.

Starting with the nature of the city, Eternal Meal, Last Helix, and God Delusion are all technically aspects of the city. From the dog-eat-dog nature of the City, the cruel apathy of its technology, and the delusions of the Gods of the City.

The last and most dangerous Ordeal is born when the REVOLUTION is almost complete. After all the Head only moves when there is trouble afoot.

To obtain what once was an enemy, DoSaM would somehow need to fulfill the requirement of REVOLUTION to ironically call onto the White Ordeal.
Or at least, that's my theory.
 
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Lepidoptera said:
Paradoxically embodies ruin and protection of all around it.
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While thinking about things from a glass half-empty side of things; I'm not sure this is different in nature from Walpurgisnacht or Kreimhild Gretchen.
For that matter, DoSaM (this is a horrible acronym to type) has the Barrier part (Qliphotic) down pat already.

Lepidoptera said:
You clamp down on the sensation and pull, tearing open a filmy dark hole in the air.
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Lepidoptera said:
Your fingers catch on the flesh of reality and tear it open.
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If you ask me, I don't really see the difference here
 
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Lurker183839 said:
Isn't this basically the same as what DoSaM did in 6.9?
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It's a bit more...extreme in comparison. But if we compare a nuke and a bomb then yeah.
Lepidoptera said:
Your fingers catch on the flesh of reality and tear it open. A multicolored wound in space opens, spreading and consuming the tiny world you and your foe are trapped in. Nothing There, no longer content to simply stand by, rushes forward a moment too late. In an instant, your facility swallows the tiny world.
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It's not as bad as ItNoLaH at least. DoSaM is at least far more convenient to type out.
Lurker183839 said:
DoSaM (this is a horrible acronym to type)
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I think I was barking up the wrong tree earlier, so let me try a different approach (and end up digging instead somehow):
Lepidoptera said:
AUTHORITY/GUIDANCE/CALAMITY/COMPREHENSION/REVOLUTION
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Lepidoptera said:
Abnormalities cannot act against their nature and are innately inhuman
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So it's a pretty safe assumption that no matter what we do these Concepts are set in stone.
Short of forever staying inside our Shell (and perhaps not even then), the only reason why preventing a disaster is possible is because we are unfinished, and thereby not fully immutable yet.
LightMage said:
Authority to provide Guidance through Calamity to reach Comprehension and bring about a Revolution.
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And this is the manner they link together. Making another assumption that our Traits (see the Informational Observation) are mostly finalized, what else can we change?

I recall in earlier discussion regarding requirements (Big Bird's SAVE) that it might not have already been fulfilled due to the Abnormalities' view of SAVE (instead of, say saving 15% on Car Insurance)

So I was thinking, we work on modifying DoSaM's perception of these concepts, or at least the fine details
AUTHORITY/COMPREHENSION are pretty much set in stone already, and GUIDANCE too to a lesser extent, but CALAMITY/REVOLUTION we may still be able to influence
Like, DoSaM's current position is essentially that There Is No Outside (and thus existence is Calamity), therefore she needs to Comprehend, and use her Authority to Guide (read: micromanage) her Nuggets through everything. And she is using the Facility to beat down Abnormalities back into submission and suppress (Sapling) them again, something that hasn't changed from the past.

Could we instead change the Facility to a place of Disaster Prep, to handle Calamities that occur outside though? A place to guide people how to handle their own problems (not effectively handle it for them), using our comprehension of matters?; and thereby cause a revolution in things and in herself?
 
Lurker183839 said:
Could we instead change the Facility to a place of Disaster Prep, to handle Calamities that occur outside though? A place to guide people how to handle their own problems (not effectively handle it for them), using our comprehension of matters?; and thereby cause a revolution in things and in herself?
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How?

Once again. How? Calamities are essentially already set in stone. The only thing left that hasn't been done yet is Revolution.

And we are already doing that with our attempt to supplant QB's system.

So once again. What can we even change?

Guide people there? Help people?

To be in our world is to experience decay. What help can we provide in a place where death permeates the air itself?
 
Urgh, seems like I'm running up against the wall of "Abnormalities are innately inhuman" again here
questioningmeme said:
What help can we provide in a place where death permeates the air itself?
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Maybe have it not expand infinitely, at least? Need to recognise the value of this world even if things are unpleasant (since in a way replacing it with the Facility is denying it entirely) first though
 
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Ace98 said:
Via performing Lobotomy on the entirety of humanity simultaneously to alter the concepts the abnormality is made from
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The River is explicitly timeless, it contains things from the past and the future both, you won't change anything that way. It is also probably multiversal anyway, both because we used it to reach this new universe, and because of the existence of things like *the road home* inspired by the wizard of Oz's story... that nobody remember in the city.

The River don't only contains concepts of things that are there and now, so why would changing what exists in concept there and now change anything in it?

questioningmeme said:
How?

Once again. How? Calamities are essentially already set in stone. The only thing left that hasn't been done yet is Revolution.

And we are already doing that with our attempt to supplant QB's system.

So once again. What can we even change?

Guide people there? Help people?

To be in our world is to experience decay. What help can we provide in a place where death permeates the air itself?
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You're forgetting one thing: this is a quest, not a story, and we are the protagonist, the fact that we can and WILL change is built-in in the very premise of these facts, in fact, what we represent itself is a source of change, we are the facility that toiled in hell in preparation for the day it reaches enlightenment, even if X seems to forget what day 50 brought, it still happened, and the biggest part of that day was that the facility got from being a Qlipa to a Kabalah that day, I think that we can reach the same conclusion and do the same thing, go from being a source of calamity to a protector against them.
 
Okay, Holy....
Been keeping tabs on this since we encountered Der Bro but haven't really interacted, just caught up and WTF that went from 1 to 1000000 really quickly. Cool AF but i'm still reeling...and i feel like i'm lacking some context here but well time to trawl through the logs between updates.
 
All this talk about changing an Abnormality's nature is fancy and all, but I don't see any plans coming up.

And besides, yall act as if DoSaM doesn't already have a method to hold the calamities at bay in the form of her shell.

Currently, the way I see it. It's far more beneficial to just complete DoSaM and then see where we shall go from there.

Through the same method, we've been using all this time. Collecting Abnormalities, protecting the kids. Etc etc.

Changing DoSaM is unneeded. What are we even going to change? Her mindset that she should do everything herself?

We already were doing that anyway! What change is needed there? Put the kids at more risk?

What are you going to change? The fact that X isn't the one who brings about Calamity? How? When the very fact of the matter is, the Calamities are all here all because of her?

So again. Change what? What should we change? How are we gonna do it?
 
A: I don't know, and the discussion is to try and find out.
Beyond that however, do want to try and guide X so that her mentality will be in a better place, Abnormality business notwithstanding
questioningmeme said:
complete DoSaM
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One more question to add to the pile that you mentioned: What even is a incomplete Abnormality, and how does finishing said Abnormality even work?
 
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Lurker183839 said:
One more question to add to the pile that you mentioned: What even is a incomplete Abnormality, and how does finishing said Abnormality even work?
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How am I supposed to answer that question? All I know is. That is the clearest path we have.

As for an "Incomplete" abnormality. One only needs to look at the Plague Doctor to see what an "Incomplete" abnormality looks like.

Lurker183839 said:
Well, that's why there's a discussion going on, to see if we can find answers to the above
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I see little point in trying to discuss something you have little to no information about. Again.

What can we change? What should we change?

X will always guide the kids, she will always command them, she will always fight calamities to contain them, she will always seek to understand more of the world around her, and she will unknowingly or intentionally walk into another revolution.

I mean. Is it not obvious that we seek to undo QB's system, with or without help?

So again. What's there to change? What X is doing isn't wrong. What DoSaM tries to do isn't wrong either.

There's ultimately no need to change anything from the way we've been doing things. What X needs isn't change. What she needs is Acceptance.

And the road we are guiding her to is already serving that purpose. A bump here and there shouldn't suddenly make us change our course when we were already on the correct one.
 
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If we are to change anything
It's the thought they are alone so to speak in handling the stress and duties, the how being the kids and helping them measure up and ultimately become equals of a sort, show X isn't the only one can handle the situation and fix things, Madoka is our lever for this change by her taking on the mantle and completing her training as a new manager thus relieving X/Aleph of the burden
The second is that there is no outside, we need X to realize there is a way out they can do anything they want now..... even abandon their perceived duty if they so choose
We need them to realize that their job is done and that they're Free
That if nothing else this is purgatory not hell, we can build something new and much less horrific than the old facility
A prison with abused inmates now can become an asylum where the patients are treated until they are well and rehabillitated
In short the Qliphoth is definitely needed instead of the sefirot, X needs to learn to be selfish basically instead of dutiful
Not unless they wish to become like the other abnormalities or distortions..... or another comparison being the Paper clip maker
The how lies in the qliphoth marks most likely, more specifically those who will soon become our kids and eventually our equals
Afterall is not a parents role to raise a child who will not repeat their mistakes and go on to exceed their predecessors one way or another
 
questioningmeme said:
All this talk about changing an Abnormality's nature is fancy and all, but I don't see any plans coming up.
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I feel the path is relatively clear.
X is the Facility.
And the Facility had 5 ways of how it could end up. (Days 46-50)

46 and 47 ended the same way: return to start
day 48 had the ending of "end the scenario, all was for nothing"
day 49 was "let us all become monsters"
and day 50 was the emergence of the infinite light as we all know.

So I do not think X needs to change their nature.
We should just be sure that we go for the day 50 multiple choice result and not any of the others.

Because for anything good to happen in a ProjMoon story one kinda has to go above and beyond the obvious.

Which here I think is resolving the kid's Distortions.
It's how it worked in the facility, so would make sense for DotSaM to work the same way.


And good news there: resolving a Qlipha led to a HUGE release of energy (as per Angela), so QB would likely take up the job of pushing the kids towards distorting without X needing to approve or putting that on their conscience.

The Incubators made their entire MO on breaking people, they will continue to do so without any prompting.

I also don't like it, but it is the most likely way for Abno X to complete in a good way, at least as far as I can see.

Though in order for the QB's to not pull an Angela and fuck us over at the last possible moment we kinda need to make use of the minimal chance offered to us by
Lepidoptera said:
Incubators: Exposure 0 -> Exposure I
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and resolve their things too.
Just for the sheer neccessity of them otherwise just stealing all the energy once we gathered the 10 new Pieces of the SoL with unknown side-effects on X and this story's ending.

My Guess? The power would otherwise go towards X's ascension and getting it stolen at the last possible moment would cause a Bad End.
What Bad End? I don't know. But nothing good could come from that, that much I am almost entirely certain of.

Edit: spelling fixes
 
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So essentially what I said.

Just do what we have always been doing from the start of the quest.

Be their mom and care for the kids.
 
.........
Lep I swear if you wind up with us adopting the earth incubator collective or a singular independent unit due to the light making them bonkers and eventually giving them a qliphoth mark then I must iterate
I KNOW I SAID WE MIGHT ADOPT THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF CAUTION BUT STOP TAKING MY COMMENTARY SO LITERALLY!!!
 
Hey.

The mom train is here to pick up all the kids. We tried with NT and we failed, but that doesn't mean we should avoid doing the same thing with QB if we have the chance.

For one thing, QB is infinitely more susceptible to being changed than something like NT.
 
It's not that which riling me
It's that lep is pulling an Usopp on me for lack of a better term
Honestly wondering if I should put a sock in it just to stop giving ideas...... especially since a good few are worst case scenarios

And if we do wind up adopting QB or one of them then we need to drill a sense caution in them before they open pandiras box later
 
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