The issue is that this doesn't actually give me as the prospective planmaker/voter much to work with.
Think about it this way. Lets say that I've read the update, and now want to put a vote together. I only vaguely know what the options are and how long each of them take, and I'd need to put that together into something resembling a full day's schedule. That is a lot of work, and doesn't sound appealing at all - so instead of putting out a plan I said shrugged and closed the tab. TO some extent that is fine, but I expect that a non-insubstantial fraction of your reader-base are doing the same thing, which is why you are getting a vote with all of one option on the table.
I am of the opinion that if you added a modicum of structure to the plan vote, you would see more activity; I say this as someone who was interested in participating but was put off by the lack of structure. That is all.
I would say as a counterpoint that putting every single option with set time limits and specific limitations and having to plan our every minute of a hyper accurate schedule is boring as fuck and would kill this quest faster than you can say 'non-preventable main character death'.
I would further postulate that refusing to vote purely because no such set schedule and timing mechanic exists even though it would arguably be just as much if not more work to make up a vote conforming to a specific schedule plan such as you are suggesting. Is more a product of petulance that this quest is not conforming to your expectations and/or laziness born of bias on your part.
I like things as they are, and I think you're being rude and manipulative.
I suppose it might just be personal preference.
I like giving open votes, if that means that no-one votes because it's too 'complicated' then no-one votes.
I will try to detail your options more in the future though.
I would say as a counterpoint that putting every single option with set time limits and specific limitations and having to plan our every minute of a hyper accurate schedule is boring as fuck and would kill this quest faster than you can say 'non-preventable main character death'.
I would further postulate that refusing to vote purely because no such set schedule and timing mechanic exists even though it would arguably be just as much if not more work to make up a vote conforming to a specific schedule plan such as you are suggesting. Is more a product of petulance that this quest is not conforming to your expectations and/or laziness born of bias on your part.
I like things as they are, and I think you're being rude and manipulative.
I express my opinion on the vote structure, explicitly specifying that is based on my own experiences. Then you come in and interpret "give us some scaffold for what you want votes to look like" as "putting every single option with set time limits and specific limitations and having to plan our every minute of a hyper accurate schedule" and tell me that my opinion is "product of petulance that this quest is not conforming to your expectations and/or laziness born of bias on your part".
And at the end of the day I am the one that is "rude and manipulative"? Hah.
There are many ways to allow structure without railroading the quest. At its simplest, just specifying "pick 5 things to do" would already be a significant improvement in my eyes, and I think it is hard to say that this would "rail the Quest".
I suppose it might just be personal preference.
I like giving open votes, if that means that no-one votes because it's too 'complicated' then no-one votes.
You're the one that said most of the questers are probably just closing out or tabbing away rather than writing out votes because of the current structure. Despite having no evidence for such. I think you have misinterpreted the reason there is only one vote on any given decision. Rather than make multiple competing plans, the questers here are often of one mind about what they want, and so planning tends to center around debating and altering that one single vote until everyone is content with it. Thus far, people have only very rarely felt the need to make separate votes.
Also If I was being manipulative I would have subtly insinuated things and tried to dress my words up prettier. I just dislike your position on this matter and stated as such. I'm sorry that I appear to have misinterpreted it as a more extreme position than it is, but I still stand by my dislike. I think that the voting has enough structure as it is, and I think that adding more would only bog things down and/or make the questers unhappy.
Seriously, how hard is it to apply just a few seconds of logical thinking to consider what you want to do and how much time you want to spend on it? A 'set number of actions' system like you propose would give things like 'lunch with Morgan' (an hour or so at most) the same weight as 'train flight' (which could last anywhere from half an hour to most of the day). Both of them would be individual actions against that 'five action limit', despite their differences under the system you're suggesting. I suppose you could then make it so that certain actions can take up multiple actions, or make some actions not count against that action limit, but at that point it's just freeform with confusing rules attached to it, which would unquestionably be a downgrade from the current system since it would be literally the same thing just with arbitrary limitations attached.
Better to leave the planning system the way it is.
Also If I was being manipulative I would have subtly insinuated things and tried to dress my words up prettier. I just dislike your position on this matter and stated as such. I'm sorry that I appear to have misinterpreted it as a more extreme position than it is, but I still stand by my dislike. I think that the voting has enough structure as it is, and I think that adding more would only bog things down and/or make the questers unhappy.
To start off, the limited actions system is something that the original Quest from crystalwatcher uses. It does have its upsides, but also downsides; the ups were already discussed, it makes people think more about what they want and ups participation.
However, this kind of structure only works if there is actually something to do. The main character over there is more restricted than Cerys is, each option to take was made with the thought that it will take several hours.
This Quest, however, is more free about what we do with our time; it basically asks "what do you want to do with your day", gives you a few options you can base your vote on, and then lets you put together whatever you want.
Write one line, write a hundred... okay, the latter might not be advisable, but it is still possible.
As Rukia already mentioned, they just structure the actions taken in a way that fits the day and will mention when something does not work.
In other words, @PrimalShadow, the main thing to keep in mind here is to just build something you like. No need to keep to any strict regulations, if you have something you want to do, throw it into your vote and see what happens.
If others agree with you, they will vote for that or use it for their own votes.
I personally like that this is more freeform than CW's Quest; it allows me to actually stretch my creativity instead of just looking at the screen for ten seconds, choose the X options I like best and then forget about it until the next update.
In here, I can actually get to think about everything I do because it is something I make up instead of just copying one of the premade choices. True, I argue a lot with the others, but this... while a little frustrating at times, is half the fun of votecrafting for me.
As for the person that suggested hypnotic powers of any kind, could we please not? Our mage might have done that, but we are the DPS; plus, manipulating others does not fit Cerys' character. She does not even want people to stand in awe or like her, so why should she make them?
Oh, right... I forgot that existed, considering they just took elements from the first three main games and stitched them together into an unholy abomination.
However, I am personally a fan of the Japanese VA's... never listened to the English synchronisation for longer than a few seconds, but it just does not feel right to me.
Adhoc vote count started by Naron on Sep 15, 2017 at 2:17 AM, finished with 3837 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Standing vote: With how it feels wrong not to... use your transformation phrase once in a while, when you feel like it
[X] Keep lying with Una a little longer
[X] Have breakfast
-[X] Ask Morgan if there are any places where you can train your reflexes; if something like that bird comes up again, you really need to up your speed
-[X] Talk about what Una was doing while you were gone
[X] Go do training after your meal (Preparation for High-Speed Combat)
[X] Check up on the overall situation in the afternoon
-[X] Then go check the barracks; you will work with those people later, so you should at least get an idea of how the general mood is
[X] Spend time with Una in the evening
-[X] Read a book together
[X] Keep lying with Una a little longer
[X] Have breakfast
-[X] Ask Morgan if there are any places where you can train your reflexes; if something like that bird comes up again, you really need to up your speed
-[X] Talk about what Una was doing while you were gone
[X] Go do training after your meal (Preparation for High-Speed Combat)
[X] Check up on the overall situation in the afternoon
-[X] Then go check the barracks; you will work with those people later, so you should at least get an idea of how the general mood is
[X] Spend time with Una in the evening
-[X] Read a book together
I prefer the Japanese VA's. Its just what ive gotten used to i guess.
On the subject of quests though; When it comes to character control i prefer where the voters have influence over the character but dont control every single thing they do. The biggest turn off for a quest for me is when its continually interrupted so that the readers can make a an arbitrary decision. Then we can get essay votes =[ Those kind of quests just take fooooorever to get anywhere. I think Rukia has done a good job of making its an interactive narrative.
On the subject of quests though; When it comes to character control i prefer where the voters have influence over the character but dont control every single thing they do. The biggest turn off for a quest for me is when its continually interrupted so that the readers can make a an arbitrary decision. Then we can essay votes =[ Those kind of quests just take fooooorever to get anywhere. I think Rukia has done a good job of making its an interactive narrative.
Are you thinking along the lines of Asuka Quest and Sayaka Quest?
I know what you are talking about, which is why I tend to specify what you are doing, not how. Sice that allows me to craft Cerys into a character of her own instead of just 'SV Player Controlled Abomination'
Are you thinking along the lines of Asuka Quest and Sayaka Quest?
I know what you are talking about, which is why I tend to specify what you are doing, not how. Sice that allows me to craft Cerys into a character of her own instead of just 'SV Player Controlled Abomination'
Hm... I understand that as well, although Quests like those you mentioned have a rather different concept and live from short, quick updates. Most people do not have your insane speed, so getting 500 words done per day is already an achievement and that is how those work.
They do give more control as well, although this comes at the price of forcing the controlled character out of what they used to be (see Sayaka Quest'S Sayaka)
As for the second part you said... uh... so, should I stop adding in-character reasoning to my votes?
I usually think about how to explain why Cerys got to do things she would not normally do, such as going to the barracks in this vote... and I mostly do it because it feels more alive than just giving a set of commands in two words per line.
Hm... I understand that as well, although Quests like those you mentioned have a rather different concept and live from short, quick updates. Most people do not have your insane speed, so getting 500 words done per day is already an achievement and that is how those work.
They do give more control as well, although this comes at the price of forcing the controlled character out of what they used to be (see Sayaka Quest'S Sayaka)
As for the second part you said... uh... so, should I stop adding in-character reasoning to my votes?
I usually think about how to explain why Cerys got to do things she would not normally do, such as going to the barracks in this vote... and I mostly do it because it feels more alive than just giving a set of commands in two words per line.
I think giving a your reasoning for why you believe something should happen in character can only be a good thing. Even if its just to give Rukia more ideas.
For the second part you said... uh... so, should I stop adding in-character reasoning to my votes?
I usually think about how to explain why Cerys got to do things she would not normally do, such as going to the barracks in this vote... and I mostly do it because it feels more alive than just giving a set of commands in two words per line.
No, your votes are fine.
If it's out of character, I will modify her reasoning.
If it is something she wouldn't do then I will tell you.
Adhoc vote count started by Rukia on Sep 15, 2017 at 5:11 AM, finished with 80 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Standing vote: With how it feels wrong not to... use your transformation phrase once in a while, when you feel like it
[X] Keep lying with Una a little longer
[X] Have breakfast
-[X] Ask Morgan if there are any places where you can train your reflexes; if something like that bird comes up again, you really need to up your speed
-[X] Talk about what Una was doing while you were gone
[X] Go do training after your meal (Preparation for High-Speed Combat)
[X] Check up on the overall situation in the afternoon
-[X] Then go check the barracks; you will work with those people later, so you should at least get an idea of how the general mood is
[X] Spend time with Una in the evening
-[X] Read a book together
[X] Keep lying with Una a little longer
[X] Have breakfast
-[X] Ask Morgan if there are any places where you can train your reflexes; if something like that bird comes up again, you really need to up your speed
-[X] Talk about what Una was doing while you were gone
[X] Go do training after your meal (Preparation for High-Speed Combat)
[X] Check up on the overall situation in the afternoon
-[X] Then go check the barracks; you will work with those people later, so you should at least get an idea of how the general mood is
[X] Spend time with Una in the evening
-[X] Read a book together
@Rukia has the vote been called? There hasn't been any votes for 9 hours.
Regarding the actual structure, just gonna say this:
There are about 30 or so members who view the story. Probably more. Of those, only 1 consistently makes plans, and another occasionally does them. There were 2 scenarios in which 2 different users made a plan, and that was only because our main plan maker refused to make one to give other people space to do what they want.
Most quests get contesting plans because of action economy, and this quest doesn't have that. Because of the quest's nature, which is the ability to have as many or as few actions as you could want within a day, plans go uncontested most of the time. So you end up with a single plan that everyone votes for and it's occasionally modified as we go.
I'm not going to participate in the discussion on whether the quest should change or not, because that apparently gets toxic pretty fast. Whether you see the current format of the quest as good or bad is entirely up to you. But I think we might be getting too reliant on a single voter.
Not going to lock it in yet, but I will in a couple of hours.
[X] Standing vote: With how it feels wrong not to... use your transformation phrase once in a while, when you feel like it
[X] Keep lying with Una a little longer
[X] Have breakfast
-[X] Ask Morgan if there are any places where you can train your reflexes; if something like that bird comes up again, you really need to up your speed
-[X] Talk about what Una was doing while you were gone
[X] Go do training after your meal (Preparation for High-Speed Combat)
[X] Check up on the overall situation in the afternoon
-[X] Then go check the barracks; you will work with those people later, so you should at least get an idea of how the general mood is
[X] Spend time with Una in the evening
-[X] Read a book together Number of voters: 10
I'm not going to participate in the discussion on whether the quest should change or not, because that apparently gets toxic pretty fast. Whether you see the current format of the quest as good or bad is entirely up to you. But I think we might be getting too reliant on a single voter.
I do indeed think people are entirely too reliant on Naron, but I am assuming this is because he is simply just making a better vote for what they already wanted.
Aside from that. Most people don't vote (I assume) because it is too much effort to consider what they know about the character, what there is to do and how long they have.
I was thinking something similar, which is why I am trying to take the backseat more often.
The main reason for my plans going through this often, though... is probably rather that I currently have a lot of free time due to being on break. I read new chapters only minutes after they are put up, then put together a plan and push it out there. Due to how much time I have at hand, I can make adjustments and react to criticism rather quickly as well.
I think @Spectral Waltz mentioned something like that being the reason they do not even bother.
So... I am still thinking how to get by this somehow. Leaving things for others to take a shot is probably a good start, though. I should do that more often.
Aside from that. Most people don't vote (I assume) because it is too much effort to consider what they know about the character, what there is to do and how long they have.
There are some people that prefer just reading along instead of actively participating, too; I myself am lurking in a few other Quests, so I can understand that.
There are some people that prefer just reading along instead of actively participating, too; I myself am lurking in a few other Quests, so I can understand that.
I simply have no interest in creating plans nor am i particularly good at that kind of thing anyway. If i have an opinion or a point to make regarding our actions i will express such in the comments. Otherwise i prefer to simply read the story as it progresses and discuss the content of it.
Aside from that. Most people don't vote (I assume) because it is too much effort to consider what they know about the character, what there is to do and how long they have.
Wait. Now that I think about it, isn't that what she's already doing? She isn't using it most of the time because she understands talking isn't a free action.
(I swear if she ends up using it right before a fight, I will be honestly pissed. She should know better than to waste the training she had trying to diminish the required summoning time.)
