Taking 300 Cogitare focused on teaching from Denva seems short-sighted to me, since they're currently using those to... well, teach. We'd be slashing their regrowth - and it is regrowth after how many we've already taken.

Apologies if I've missed something meant to address that concern.
 
Taking 300 Cogitare focused on teaching from Denva seems short-sighted to me, since they're currently using those to... well, teach. We'd be slashing their regrowth - and it is regrowth after how many we've already taken.

Apologies if I've missed something meant to address that concern.
We already got two cogitare schools in our outposts.

One of them a pretty good one, just needs to grow a little more.
Mostly agreed on these thoughts, but I just don't want to split the vote. Getting more RP for us my primary goal.
 
Taking 300 Cogitare focused on teaching from Denva seems short-sighted to me, since they're currently using those to... well, teach. We'd be slashing their regrowth - and it is regrowth after how many we've already taken.

IIRC Neablis has previously stated that Denva had sufficiently expanded their education system to the point that we no longer needed to worry about stunting it by poaching their personnel, and in any case, they'd still be teaching... Just for us. Cogitare are more useful for us than for the Ascendancy anyway, because of their various advantages over normal scientists and engineers, but the Ascendancy also has rapidly increasing numbers of both and is heavily focused on expanding those numbers.

We already got two cogitare schools in our outposts.

One of them a pretty good one, just needs to grow a little more.

We have 1 Cogitare school. The Auric Burden is still using the apprenticeship model. Additionally, we've been told that as-is we might have 1000 Cogitare training 100 new recruits per turn if we leave them totally alone for "another few decades", in other words we can wait at least six turns and maybe get the kinds of numbers to be really useful assuming nothing else comes up at the location currently under probably the highest risk of attack of anywhere that we have a presence... Or we can double the number of trainers, make sure all of our Cogitare are using the improved training method, and set up training in the Ascendancy core so that if an Ork fleet rolls into Calderath within the next 30 years, we don't lose all our progress.

Edit - Also, while Neablis said "another few decades", the actual math looks to be around 13 turns before we're getting 100 / turn from the Volcano academy. Again, assuming nothing goes wrong in Calderath such as an major Ork attack and we make no use of their Cogitare for that entire time. We can cut that number in half and hedge our bets by copying their training program, making sure the Auric Burden is using it as well, and setting up another branch in the safest system we're aware of, which is also the best for it with a large, well educated, friendly, and increasingly idle population.
 
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I really think we should be increasing the action to research point ratio so I would like to get this

-[] Improved Reasoning Capacity (300 RP) You're already extremely good at connecting the dots, doing analysis on confusing data and creative thought. Improving your capabilities on this front will be tricky, but may be very rewarding (Improves RP produced per action by an amount depending on your roll. May lead to further RP-generating techs, or techs to improve the output of organics with your implants)

For this one I think other people hearing a distress calls could be really bad so especially since that could basically be the equivalent of ringing the dinner bell and drawing enemies towards them.

-[] Precise Warpaphones (250 RP) Right now the precision on your warpaphones is pretty good - it can hit a single system from light-years away. But it might be possible to refine that even further, to hit a single planet in that system without anybody off-planet being the wiser. It might also help make a offensive version of the warpaphone more effective (Boosts the precision of the warpaphone, further reduces the chance of eavesdropping, improves effects of offensive warpaphones)

Otherwise I would like to get the cheap stuff out of the way. for instance this -[] Navigator Medical Care (50 RP) is really cheap and very relevant right now.
 
However, as usual, I want to make sure I'm not just making things up: @Neablis, Companion Cogitators don't contribute anything to improve our psytech implants directly, right? Neither mechanically or narratively? I'm guessing that they might be a prerequisite for some type of really powerful psytech implants if we go down that path, but probably no side benefits of stronger psytech from just researching the non-psytech brain implants?
It's an across-the-board improvement to brain implants, though mostly a narrative one.

You don't even have psytech implants yet, but if you did it would improve them in ways that weren't more power, and unlock the next tier of psytech implant that is similar to having a psychic staff and hood implanted in your brain.
 
really think we should be increasing the action to research point ratio so I would like to get this

-[] Improved Reasoning Capacity (300 RP) You're already extremely good at connecting the dots, doing analysis on confusing data and creative thought. Improving your capabilities on this front will be tricky, but may be very rewarding (Improves RP produced per action by an amount depending on your roll. May lead to further RP-generating techs, or techs to improve the output of organics with your implants)
My current plan has Collaborative Strategic R&D with Anexa, Superhuman enhancements and Machine Spirit Hallucinations. CCRnD and Superhuman enhancements will synergize to give our Cogitare and the Ascendancy's researchers in general quite large boost for per turn RP generation, with MS Hallucinations giving a small boost to per-action RP generation. And the fun thing about that? If we have more RP, we can spend it more easily to further increase our RP generation in the coming turns.

And Improved Reasoning Capacity seems very tasty for a next target for ever larger RP gains. So if you are interested in getting to there sooner rather than later, my plan "Prometheus Ascendant" is probably your best bet.

Really, for playing an AI, we have done the cardinal sin of not ramping up the intelligence of Vita and her allies. While W40k canon for timescales for basically everything almost certainly prevents a hard-singularity take-off at the usual scifi speeds where the AI becomes overwhelmingly powerful in a very short time? I think it would be unwise to ignore even a moment longer just being able to research just more stuff at the long run.

Otherwise, we face the very real danger of having to solve ever more immediate problems without being able to devote time increasing our own capabilities. Maybe not even being able to devote that much time to research as the wars obviously being fought by the existing factions escalate and run to us and the Ascendancy.

EDIT:
It's an across-the-board improvement to brain implants, though mostly a narrative one.

You don't even have psytech implants yet, but if you did it would improve them in ways that weren't more power, and unlock the next tier of psytech implant that is similar to having a psychic staff and hood implanted in your brain.
Huh, didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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Do pardon, but an absolute random quesiton: To Imperium ships have point defences? Their hatred of automation tells me No, but they've got servitors which suggests Yes.
Yes, absolutely they do.

How much automation is involved is a matter of one's depiction, probably. It's certainly not required. Point defense guns were highly prominent by WWII. Manual point defense isn't weird. (Of course, at real space ranges the difference between 'manual' gunnery and fully automated gunnery should be almost hard to see, since target detection and tracking and gunlaying all are impossible to do with unaided human capacities.)
Would you happen to have any data on the standard Attack Craft loadout on Imperial Destroyers and Above? If we mass-produced fighters (IE: Drones) for carrier operations, what kind of opposition would they be up against?
In Battlefleet Gothic strike craft are (almost?) never seen on ships smaller than light cruisers. Absolutely never for the Imperium, there might be a weird outlier somewhere. There are also few really committed carriers as opposed to craft with maybe half hangars half guns. (EDIT: The only weird outlier I've found is the Drukhari, whose Impaler Assault Module can be found on their escorts.)
 
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[X][Victan] Keeper of the Covanent
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant

OK fine, I have been convinced, it makes sense to get more RP, but I want to do the Velkar OMC before we leave next turn. I do not think simply asking the Denvans to share will get the tech to them fast enough. After all, nothing says how fast they have to do it and they have their own priorities.
 
Imperial escorts tend to have 1-2 turrets, cruisers tend to be 2-3, and Battleships tend to be 4-5. For reference, each Turret gets to shoot first to try to kill an oncoming wave of fighters/bombers, and afterwards, each surviving bomber squadron gets to make d6-T attacks against the ship, where T is the number of turrets.

Which is a rather round about way of saying that bombers will struggle with the heaviest targets, but can work quite well against lighter combatants, especially if massed. Torpedo bombers may work better - each successful turret attack can degrade a torpedo spread by 1 strength, and a bomber launched torpedo spread starts with 2 strength. Though of course the torpedoes then have to beat the ship's armor, so not exactly guaranteed damage, but that's true of most things in BFG.

To be clear, that's all just my admittedly basic understanding of Battlefleet Gothic, but the short version is that carrier tactics can work; we'd probably want hanger cramming, improved passive stealth, and maybe improved torpedos, but it could definitely work even before we get into crazier stuff like antimatter torpedoes. It's not a paradigm we necessarily have to pursue, but it could definitely work.



Anyway, as for the vote, it's kind of impressive the way people have rallied against my plan; if my quick vote is correct, Prometheus Ascendent is only one vote behind Meat, Metal and the Soul as opposed to the ten or so it was behind by last night. I honestly don't mind going all in on research adders, though I'm still a little dubious of ignoring both Juvenat and Velkar OMC. Also, putting off Faith yet another turn is kind of a wut moment to me.
 
mperial escorts tend to have 1-2 turrets, cruisers tend to be 2-3, and Battleships tend to be 4-5. For reference, each Turret gets to shoot first to try to kill an oncoming wave of fighters/bombers, and afterwards, each surviving bomber squadron gets to make d6-T attacks against the ship, where T is the number of turrets.

Which is a rather round about way of saying that bombers will struggle with the heaviest targets, but can work quite well against lighter combatants, especially if massed. Torpedo bombers may work better - each successful turret attack can degrade a torpedo spread by 1 strength, and a bomber launched torpedo spread starts with 2 strength. Though of course the torpedoes then have to beat the ship's armor, so not exactly guaranteed damage, but that's true of most things in BFG.

To be clear, that's all just my admittedly basic understanding of Battlefleet Gothic, but the short version is that carrier tactics can work; we'd probably want hanger cramming, improved passive stealth, and maybe improved torpedos, but it could definitely work even before we get into crazier stuff like antimatter torpedoes. It's not a paradigm we necessarily have to pursue, but it could definitely work.
The ruleset I have has a feature that significantly mitigates the 'bombers can't touch you if you've got really high turrets' issue: If you have fighters in the wave as well, each fighter up to the number of bombers adds a bonus attack (even if the fighter is shot down by the turrets). So against the (quite rare) 5 turrets, instead of each bomber doing d6-5 attacks for 1 attack 1/6th of the time, each fighter+bomber pair does 1 attack plus 1 attack 1/6th of the time.

(Also really good bombers [Eldar] can reroll the d6s for number of attacks. Our bombers probably aren't that good even if we build them with shields.)


However, I'm quite sure this game isn't running closely on BFG rules, so reading too much in there is likely to be a mistake.
 
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Anyway, as for the vote, it's kind of impressive the way people have rallied against my plan; if my quick vote is correct, Prometheus Ascendent is only one vote behind Meat, Metal and the Soul as opposed to the ten or so it was behind by last night. I honestly don't mind going all in on research adders, though I'm still a little dubious of ignoring both Juvenat and Velkar OMC. Also, putting off Faith yet another turn is kind of a wut moment to me.
I'm delaying Juvenat and Vellkar OMC so that we can actually research them and other things when we get swamped by other priorities and limited in how many research actions per turn we can generate. Which is pretty likely I think, at least based on to our GM straight out telling they were expecting the situation to heat up for us on this turn. A reminder, Juvenat Beginnings is likely just that. Beginnings. It only has a chance to make it more efficient, and no guarantees by how much. Which means that we should be prepared for a marathon, not a sprint.

EDIT: some quick changes to my initial post
EDIT: also, just changed so that my approval votes are in my plan-vote post now, as doing it in an another post removed the link in the vote-tally to my plan-post
 
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So just found this quest a couple days ago and binge read it but is there a reason we haven't researched self repairing psychic shields yet so it can be added to every bot, ship and other things we and the SA make? Seems to me a very important research since it frees up a ton of resources for them and us and makes long term assaults or wave attacks on shielded targets much harder for our enemies?

Not to mention every time we exit warp or do warp studies/ capture and poke at Deamons we have to spend a good amount of industry on just repairs so this would help out a lot in future.

Also I'm guessing we're keeping bongo around to try and find a way to true kill him? If so best guess is Emperor armor fragment research no? Finding out that could not only allow for better weapons but also shields and new Psyker tricks
 
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So just found this quest a couple days ago and binge read it but is there a reason we haven't researched self repairing psychic shields yet so it can be added to every bot, ship and other things we and the SA make? Seems to me a very important research since it frees up a ton of resources for them and us and makes long term assaults or wave attacks on shielded targets much harder for our enemies?

Not to mention every time we exit warp or do warp studies/ capture and poke at Deamons we have to spend a good amount of industry on just repairs so this would help out a lot in future.
Glories of democracy and very schizophrenic voting habits. :)
 
So just found this quest a couple days ago and binge read it but is there a reason we haven't researched self repairing psychic shields yet so it can be added to every bot, ship and other things we and the SA make? Seems to me a very important research since it frees up a ton of resources for them and us and makes long term assaults or wave attacks on shielded targets much harder for our enemies?
Opportunity cost - repair bays can do the same job, and because they repair by BP, efficient psy shields would also speed those repairs up while making psy shielding better.

We'll probably get regeneration shortly before going to the Eldar for trade, Since that permits us to provide a supply of the shields rather than the technology itself.
[X][Victan] Keeper of the Covanent
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant

OK fine, I have been convinced, it makes sense to get more RP, but I want to do the Velkar OMC before we leave next turn. I do not think simply asking the Denvans to share will get the tech to them fast enough. After all, nothing says how fast they have to do it and they have their own priorities.
Fast enough for what? It's not like there's a cutoff.

We checked with the questmaster first. It's not going to be unreasonably slow, and the diplo boon is happening in context of Denva getting every RP booster that applies to them available.

It's not a bad way for them to get the capability.

Though by all means, researching it ourselves is certainly something we can choose to do next turn. I don't want it to displace juvenat though - As far as we're aware, the SA doesn't get the discounts to it that we've accumulated so they would have to pay the full 600 even though we can buy it for 150.

It's part of why my Prometheus plan variant gets juvenat now, though I'm also approval voting for the others. If you'd like to have less in the way of getting VOMC before Vita leaves next turn, you might also want to consider approval voting for Prometheus: Juvenat Edition.
 
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On a different topic than RP. There is a reason why I'm also advocating High-energy physics. We, frankly, have been extremely sheltered by not encountering more than a tiny bit of the insane warfare that is common in 40k. And delaying weapons research any further is playing a dangerous game. Especially when we could benefit greatly with the Ascendancy assisting us in researching them with both the tech-sharing in the Physics tech-tree we already have, and increased research speed they can potentially gain. I believe that getting the fundamental research out of the way for them would make weapons research past that much more appealing to them.

I mean, look what even the Imperium had in 30k!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bZW7ANLaA0
Those are disintegration weapons being used in the trailer. Considering that they can do that to a Space Marine armor (and the Space Marine)? I imagine that that even Necrons would have a pretty hard time withstanding and recovering from that kind of exotic weapon. Pretty hand when they have been making moves and threats against Denva, obviously much more beyond it.
Anyway, I think we will already regret how long we've pushed back truly sinking our teeth into weapons research beyond Nova Cannons, but I don't want us to have to regret it even more than we will likely have.
So just found this quest a couple days ago and binge read it but is there a reason we haven't researched self repairing psychic shields yet so it can be added to every bot, ship and other things we and the SA make? Seems to me a very important research since it frees up a ton of resources for them and us and makes long term assaults or wave attacks on shielded targets much harder for our enemies?
First of all, welcome! Second, it was probably seen by many as "good enough" for now, myself included. There are other threats beyond Chaos, and many of them don't care much or at all about our psy shields. Necrons especially, but you can probably count the Orks too. But I agree that they would be very nice to have among other things.

Which is why I'm advocating you vote for my plan with all its research boosters (among other things). So that we can start doing more "nice to have" -stuff rather than "we absolutely need this". Though obviously, it depends from person to person what they see as absolutely necessary, but you get what I mean.
 
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant

Hopefully next turn we can do self repairing psychic shields and mini personal psychic shields so we can start making personal sized shielding for everyone and make it as a trade good. Would also then allow us to research the Space marine armor and make an upgrade with it included to sell to the Space Marines as a great opening gift to sweeten relations.

And I really just think the the more robust psychic shielding is in the universe the better for us since it's a compounding problem for chaos making it harder to gain footholds and spread corruption as they have to spend more energy to gain smaller rewards than was done before its introduction

And as far as trump cards to have on case of inquisitor run ins being able to hand out mechanical psychic shielding en mass would be a great get out of trouble free card and turn any imperial with a brain into our best friend even if they hated our very guts for any reason just based on us being able to make it
 
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[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant

Hopefully next turn we can do self repairing psychic shields and mini personal psychic shields so we can start making personal sized shielding for everyone and make it as a trade good. Would also then allow us to research the Space marine armor and make an upgrade with it included to sell to the Space Marines as a great opening gift to sweeten relations.

And I really just think the the more robust psychic shielding is in the universe the better for us since it's a compounding problem for chaos making it harder to gain footholds and spread corruption as they have to spend more energy to gain smaller rewards than was done before its introduction

And as far as trump cards to have on case of inquisitor run ins being able to hand out mechanical psychic shielding en mass would be a great get out of trouble free card and turn any imperial with a brain into our best friend even if they hated our very guts for any reason just based on us being able to make it
Handing out en masse isn't going to happen. As bongo and the war bands that invaded Denva demonstrated, access to psychic shields results in more effective attacks against them being developed, And the shields themselves can be turned to the opposite purpose, spreading corruption rather than shielding from it.

When we provide shielding, there generally has to be a solution to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands and ideally minimizing close contact with enemies that will survive to tell the tale.

That's a significant endeavor - a solveable one, but the bedrock of it is trust, so it's not something we'd whip out for an otherwise belligerant polity. Untrustworthy leaders can just turn around and sell it to chaos for immense personal gain, after all.

For the space Marines, there'll probably be some kind of export control treaty. It's something I've discussed previously, but I'm on my phone right now so I won't go into details.
 
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Handing out en masse isn't going to happen. As bongo and the war bands that invaded Denva demonstrated, access to psychic shields results in more effective attacks against them being developed, And the shields themselves can be turned to the opposite purpose, spreading corruption rather than shielding from it.

When we provide shielding, there generally has to be a solution to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands and ideally minimizing close contact with enemies that will survive to tell the tale.

That's a significant endeavor - a solveable one, but the bedrock of it is trust, so it's not something we'd whip out for an otherwise belligerant polity. Untrustworthy leaders can just turn around and sell it to chaos for immense personal gain, after all.

For the space Marines, there'll probably be some kind of export control treaty. It's something I've discussed previously, but I'm on my phone right now so I won't go into details.
The thing with bongo from my reading of it is that we nat 1d and fell into a trap specifically laid out for us that let him cut through our shields more easily. If we just hand out 'NO' shields there shouldn't be all that much to worm their way around. Most of our failures and set backs come from trying to improve and get creative with wringing more and more out of our shields since we put ourselves into an arms race with a demon we kept around and basically educated in depth on our shielding for that very purpose.

Just handing out NO shields or VEIL and other types we have already figured out I imagine won't result in massive demon attacks using some Trojan horse vector since we already figured out what not to do with shielding.

If it was a major weakness then all our effort into turning the world into a chaos cult nightmare wouldn't have worked at all since they could have just turned all those shielded ground cars, government buildings, apartments, bots, etc into vectors for attack and infiltration.

It took an entire planets worth of cultists with an in depth understanding of our tech to just try and turn our bots against people and our primitive tripwires and other safety measures stoped them cold.

I think that handing out amulets and armor with built in personal Psy shields as an export is a very reasonable thing
 
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