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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Broccoliccoli said:
Wouldn't that just be 'restricted Runes' rather than '[Restricted] Runes'? The idea of a new class of runes would also mesh with our recent hammer insight.
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I mean. *gestures to our Rune list*

[Restricted] is there.

What soul does for Runes we don't know about is ???, and the same for other secret things. No reason to break that pattern.

E: Like, I'd be down for him to have an entire class of runes we don't know. That's Cool! But that interpretation doesn't make a lot of sense given the surrounding context of Soul's statement.
 
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weeblypanda said:
Consider our "ultra" conservative Frenemy
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He's not even slightly conservative as far as Runelords politics from the rest of the Dawi care, he's just a normal Radical in comparison to Snorri who's so far apart that people dubbed a entire set of rune politics "Snorrist".

Also he's a pretty awesome guy, as expected of the second best in the far north. Love how calling him that would be a compliment and insult at the same time.
 
I think our greatest advantage over Vragni could be called [Moldbreaker] or something- we're not afraid to bend tradition until it creaks. I blame Snorri's troll tongue. Having a tradition so horrible we refused to subject our own apprentices to it made us more flexible on other matters. The funny thing is that this benefited Vragni- Would he have gotten so far without the burning desire to prove us wrong?
 
The apprentice swarm sounds like a pyramid scheme. Hey beardling, you get to learn from a runelord, just remember to help him out a bit after you graduate. Don't worry, you'll get your own apprentice one day to help get back that lost time.
 
Franksson said:
Snorri Is by far on the lead, but Vragni has other people helping him more than we do.
He could at some point just pile up enough action to start gaining on us.
Theoreticaly that Is.
Also the gap Is big now but @Voikirium alone could probably reduce It by a good margin if he decides he likes the studens of Vragni.
And noone of us can catch up to Volkirium.
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See, somebody gets me.

Arkio said:
Spite can be a wonderful motivator I'll have you know :V
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Which is greater: my pride in my position (you may want to check the avatar :V) or your spite?


DragonParadox said:
The willingness to walk through an obvious loophole in the Rule of Pride
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And one dedicated Omake simp, can't forget that part!
 
soulcake said:
Definitely yeah. If I was a cooler/smarter QM and planned better I'd give you an actual trait that's balanced and stuff.
As it is, In my head Vragni's productivity at this point is now about bumping his action economy, learning dozens of variants of Runes, disseminating those Runes to the worthy (which is shorttracked by his massive lineage of students and family) and then going ad nauseum.

So probably something akin to a set of things in synchrony.

1. Teaching trait: "1 action can now teach 6 - 8 apprentices for 8 - 10 turns. 1 Apprentice action can be used to teach increase that number by 1."
2. Several dozen Rune based traits. Not only ones like what you have where its "Every X actions produces X progress", but also "Increasing specialty rating for learning [Category] Runes" and "Every [very high] number of graduated apprentices provides 1 increased specialty level"
3. Action generating traits: "Every [high] number of graduated apprentices provides 1 heir action.", "Every [very high] number of grand-apprentices provides 1 heir action.", "Every [very very high] number of great-grand-apprentices and below provides 1 heir action."
4. Action improving traits: "heir actions can now do almost everything except specified commissions, Crafting with [RESTRICTED] Runes." and "Apprentice and heir actions can be used on [Difficult] requests and research.""

His action economy is literally dumping his personal actions to create as many apprentice actions as possible.
Then as they graduate those apprentices end up giving him heir actions or an equivalent to heir actions.
Then trying to do everything to make those heir actions as close to a general action as possible in terms of useability.


Productive in the number of bodies, and keeping with the Rule of Pride in turn with his neat trick
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Does he ever manage to make time to Research in truly innovative, paradigm shifting ways?
 
Vrangi is by objective measures as a runesmith bullshit and a major asset to dwarf society as a whole. His problem is he has a one sided rivalry with the only Runesmith who's going for Major Ancestor status and can suceed.
 
soulcake said:
His action economy is literally dumping his personal actions to create as many apprentice actions as possible.
Then as they graduate those apprentices end up giving him heir actions or an equivalent to heir actions.
Then trying to do everything to make those heir actions as close to a general action as possible in terms of useability.


Productive in the number of bodies, and keeping with the Rule of Pride in turn with his neat trick
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So what you're saying is that Vragni is the Head of his very own Rhunki multi level marketing scheme.
 
soulcake said:
2. Several dozen Rune based traits. Not only ones like what you have where its "Every X actions produces X progress", but also "Increasing specialty rating for learning [Category] Runes" and "Every [very high] number of graduated apprentices provides 1 increased specialty level"
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This is interesting because we do seem to get an increasing speciality rating for learni
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, better than anyone who has none, still behind Snori. Also as others have pointed out we have two known and one unknown Mythic Deeds to our name and he has none. This isn't a competition and he's not in the running, Vrangi just deluded himself that he is. This is Snori running after the Ancestors to catch up.
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Erm, Voik and frankson are correct Snorris lead is immense but if you think he's not in the running then you're the crazy one.
Being worthy of the tongs is proof he's in the running and whatever he's done to create the Orange rune effect shows that hes not nearly as far behind as I had expected.
...
I just realised, is this the Kragg/Thorek dynamic in ancient times, localised entirely within the North?
DragonParadox said:
  • The willingness to walk through an obvious loophole in the Rule of Pride
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Dude... this isn't a loophole.
Theres no loophole because theres no formalised rule, just what everyone interprets for themselves.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Dude... this isn't a loophole.
Theres no loophole because theres no formalised rule, just what everyone interprets for themselves.
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Just because there is no formal consensus, doesn't mean there isn't a majority opinion which is very different from Vrangi's way of doing things hence why he is considered pretty damn radical in the South even as he thinks he is protecting the soul of runesmith conservatism or or some nonsense. That is the funniest thing about him, that he has become what he set out to critique.
 
DragonParadox said:
Just because there is no formal consensus, doesn't mean there isn't a majority opinion which is very different from Vrangi's way of doing things hence why he is considered pretty damn radical in the South even as he thinks he is protecting the soul of runesmith conservatism or or some nonsense. That is the funniest thing about him, that he has become what he set out to critique.
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The reason he's considered a radical is the Crucible of Creation...
Until then he'd have fit in pretty well with central conservatives.
His eccentricity would have been that other conservatives would simply chose to not get into a situation where they want to make repeated uses of the same combo. That Vragni does do this would be weird but he's definetly picked what they'd consider to be the correct solution given that it means he doesn't have to relax his personal standards at all to resolve the problem
 
Dark as Silver said:
The reason he's considered a radical is the Crucible of Creation...
Until then he'd have fit in pretty well with central conservatives.
His eccentricity would have been that other conservatives would simply chose to not get into a situation where they want to make repeated uses of the same combo. That Vragni does do this would be weird but he's definetly picked what they'd consider to be the correct solution given that it means he doesn't have to relax his personal standards at all to resolve the problem
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And the Crucible is the same loophole he has been walking through ever since he took his first apprentice. Vrangi knows one trick and he's been doing it harder and harder. It doesn't matter how many ways one says 'he knows a lot of runes' and 'he takes a lot of apprentices' that is all there is to it. We on the other hand have achieved a literal quantum leap in rune understanding, no longer having to use trial and error to 'make the contraption that makes art'.

There is nothing Vrangi could ever do that would ever remotely get close to that level of transformative discovery, there just aren't any equivalent problems that could be solved by just knowing Lots of Runes (TM) because if there were Aric, Angkra and the like would have solved them already with their much larger rune libraries.
 
Binge-Reader said:
His problem is he has a one sided rivalry with the only Runesmith who's going for Major Ancestor status and can suceed.
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However without this rivalry driving him he very likely wouldn't have reached where he is today. He would definitely still be a great runelord, but I doubt he would be good and driven enough to aquire the Tongs (plus obviuosly there would be no Citadel of Creaton without the rivalry).
Dark as Silver said:
The reason he's considered a radical is the Crucible of Creation...
Until then he'd have fit in pretty well with central conservatives.
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Pretty sure the whole "training a dozens of runesmiths, who are training a small army of runesmiths" to bypass the "limited sharing of runelore outside master-apprentice relationship" rule, and "knowing/creating bunch of Legally Distinct Runes that have nigh-identical effects" to bypass Rule of Pride are pretty damn radical behaviours. It's just before Citadel of Creation almost no one otside Far North have ever heard of, or cared about him to raise the issue with said radicalism.
 
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Keep this up and I will write Vragni being the one to make first contact with Warhammer Gnolls and learn magic from them.

(And I'll write it so well Soul will make it canon and then I'll also finally get that pony mom promised for my 5th birthday)
 
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