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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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random_npc said:
do you want to bring on an apprentice right before we vanish for a decade to go do the kind of forging that kills a good chunk of the master runesmiths that attempt it? hell we have good odds of spending most of next turn recovering from the attempt. It would be bad for the kid for their first experience with us being we hare off to do a mega project that involves stuff that would kill them to even attempt for a while, and will remain lethally dangerous to them for most if not all of their own career.

Apprences are great, they are adorable and pull Snorii out from just being pure RnD and crafting, we should for sure have one around most of the time. Which is why I think we should take on within the next two or three turns, but right this instant is the worst possble time to bring one on.

To get meta with it for a bit, we're not going to have much room for dwarfling scenes next turn anyways, given that narrative focus is going to be on the Dragon Gronti super weapon.
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I am unsure if you are giving Snorri or the author credit here.

What possible universe is there where Snorri would neglect or endanger his apprentice?
He's been pretty clear on his priorities, and suggesting he would neglect or endanger the young one seems odd.
 
[X] [Snorri:] No.
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)
 
[X] [Snorri:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 10 turns)
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)

So as per discord, this would just be calling bids for those too young to apprentice yet, like best granddaughter
 
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Yorick's Skull said:
I am unsure if you are giving Snorri or the author credit here.

What possible universe is there where Snorri would neglect or endanger his apprentice?
He's been pretty clear on his priorities, and suggesting he would neglect or endanger the you one seems odd.
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So, in universe, taking on an apprentice right before taking a massive risk, which forging in a storm of magic is, is fundamentally irresponsible. It would be like adopting a kid right before you go to war rather than after you get back. While i'm sure the kid would get 1 ap worth of time and attention, it would be on the low end of that due to snori having to get ready for a massive undertaking, and then quite possibly being incapacitated for a chunk of time after. Its hard to be a good teacher if your bedridden after all. So in universe, it is very much the wrong time to take an apprentice. Both because he might be laid up for a while and unable to teach, and because one of their first experiences with thier mentor being watching them get partially melted would be traumatic for them, or worse we come out fine and we risk them not understanding how godamn dangerous what we did was and want to do it themselves before they are ready. It is just in general, a bad idea to take on a major commitment before starting some massive and risky undertaking for all parties involved.

as for the out of universe thing, it is a fundamental part of writing that there is only so much narrative focus to go round. The same amount of words, hell the exact same scene, can have its impact lessened by what's around it. this is an inescapable quality of writing , or really any form of storytelling. Soulcake is a damn good writer but fundamentally the construction of the Dragon Gronti has earned enough narrative weight and focus that it is most likely going to overshadow anything else in the update its in. At the end of the day, it's simply going to be the biggest deal out of everything that happens that turn. Outright, there will be way less narrative focus to go round next turn when we're bringing real life years worth of work to fruition than there will be the turn after.
 
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Yorick's Skull said:
I am unsure if you are giving Snorri or the author credit here.

What possible universe is there where Snorri would neglect or endanger his apprentice?
He's been pretty clear on his priorities, and suggesting he would neglect or endanger the young one seems odd.
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So, when we've taught apprentices in the past, we've gotten scenes of Snorri instructing them and interacting with them. However, during turns where we work on big projects, Trollslayer, the Ancestral Aegis Banner etc he gives them encoded books, riddles, and exercises to do while he is gone and then he squirrels himself away in his sanctum to do the forging.

Next turn we've been planning to be traveling out of the Hold to the Anvil of the Earth to forge Skaudardrengi, and devoting as many of Snorri's actions to it as possible. What this means is that from this child's perspective; we take them on, talk to them some, give them a bunch of cryptic lesson workbooks and then vanish for eight years out of their first ten with us. Leaving behind our incredibly stressed heir to take care of the kid, who might well be Svina at like 15 (if we choose her). And then we come back after having taken massive risks with magic we don't understand, probably hurt or needing to recover.

We start their lifeshaping education by walking off to go blast our soul with world shaping levels of magic that might leave us unconscious for a few years again or somehow damage his soul, while they work out of a lesson plan workbook without his supervision or attention. The narrative of that is rancid and does not paint Snorri in a sane light.

Doesn't have anything to do with Soul and credit to him - he'd try his best, but when we players make our choices, he plays them out. See Snorri getting maimed making Skarren. We can, and have, made decisions that are bad for Snorri and the people around him.
 
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Derpmind said:
@soulcake For clarity please, this seems to imply that voting No here means Snorri will never take on Apprentices ever again. Is that true?
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jjffjhjf said:
@soulcake to clarify this apprentice vote, if we vote no now, are we never going to be able to take an apprentice again? Because the timing on this is really rough.
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Not forever if you pick no.

Just a good crop this year, and depending on who you pick you may not even start training em for a bit. Svina is literally 13 turning 22 by end of this turn so you wouldn't even start training her til she was 30 if you wanted Snorri or Karstah to do it. Which is in 2-ish turns.
 
soulcake said:
Not forever if you pick no.

Just a good crop this year, and depending on who you pick you may not even start training em for a bit. Svina is literally 13 turning 22 by end of this turn so you wouldn't even start training her til she was 30 if you wanted Snorri or Karstah to do it. Which is in 2-ish turns.
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Oh, so we can do a "yes, but not right now?"
 
soulcake said:
Not forever if you pick no.

Just a good crop this year, and depending on who you pick you may not even start training em for a bit. Svina is literally 13 turning 22 by end of this turn so you wouldn't even start training her til she was 30 if you wanted Snorri or Karstah to do it. Which is in 2-ish turns.
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Ah Snorri having a bout of Sanity in regards to timing would be nice.

Because chief the timing of this vote is Ass, gotta say.
 
BungieONI said:
So, when we've taught apprentices in the past, we've gotten scenes of Snorri instructing them and interacting with them. However, during turns where we work on big projects, Trollslayer, the Ancestral Aegis Banner etc he gives them encoded books, riddles, and exercises to do while he is gone and then he squirrels himself away in his sanctum to do the forging.

Next turn we've been planning to be traveling out of the Hold to the Anvil of the Earth to forge Skaudardrengi, and devoting as many of Snorri's actions to it as possible. What this means is that from this child's perspective; we take them on, talk to them some, give them a bunch of cryptic lesson workbooks and then vanish for eight years out of their first ten with us. Leaving behind our incredibly stressed heir to take care of the kid, who might well be Svina at like 15 (if we choose her). And then we come back after having taken massive risks with magic we don't understand, probably hurt or needing to recover.

We start their lifeshaping education by walking off to go blast our soul with world shaping levels of magic that might leave us unconscious for a few years again or somehow damage his soul, while they work out of a lesson plan workbook without his supervision or attention. The narrative of that is rancid and does not paint Snorri in a sane light.

Doesn't have anything to do with Soul and credit to him - he'd try his best, but when we players make our choices, he plays them out. See Snorri getting maimed making Skarren. We can, and have, made decisions that are bad for Snorri and the people around him.
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When you put it like that it almost sounds like we shouldn't be blasting our soul with worldshaping amounts of magic again.
 
soulcake said:
Not forever if you pick no.

Just a good crop this year, and depending on who you pick you may not even start training em for a bit. Svina is literally 13 turning 22 by end of this turn so you wouldn't even start training her til she was 30 if you wanted Snorri or Karstah to do it. Which is in 2-ish turns.
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Ah, well there goes any particular motivation I had to say no to an apprentice, I suppose.
 
shepsquared said:
When you put it like that it almost sounds like we shouldn't be blasting our soul with worldshaping amounts of magic again.
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Most would say no, but we're basically committed at this point and have done our best to prepare ourselves for it. Throwing an actual child or thirty year old into the mix is a level of reckless I'm not cool with. That's a bridge too far, you could say.
 
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BungieONI said:
So, when we've taught apprentices in the past, we've gotten scenes of Snorri instructing them and interacting with them. However, during turns where we work on big projects, Trollslayer, the Ancestral Aegis Banner etc he gives them encoded books, riddles, and exercises to do while he is gone and then he squirrels himself away in his sanctum to do the forging.

Next turn we've been planning to be traveling out of the Hold to the Anvil of the Earth to forge Skaudardrengi, and devoting as many of Snorri's actions to it as possible. What this means is that from this child's perspective; we take them on, talk to them some, give them a bunch of cryptic lesson workbooks and then vanish for eight years out of their first ten with us. Leaving behind our incredibly stressed heir to take care of the kid, who might well be Svina at like 15 (if we choose her). And then we come back after having taken massive risks with magic we don't understand, probably hurt or needing to recover.

We start their lifeshaping education by walking off to go blast our soul with world shaping levels of magic that might leave us unconscious for a few years again or somehow damage his soul, while they work out of a lesson plan workbook without his supervision or attention. The narrative of that is rancid and does not paint Snorri in a sane light.

Doesn't have anything to do with Soul and credit to him - he'd try his best, but when we players make our choices, he plays them out. See Snorri getting maimed making Skarren. We can, and have, made decisions that are bad for Snorri and the people around him.
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I mean, even without soul's clarification, I'd still want to give Snorri a bit more credit here? Like, I don't think he'd be so hideously irresponsible as to take a kid in, tell them he's going to train them to be the best Runesmith there ever was, and then vanish into the wilderness for the better part of ten years and leave them with nothing but some textbooks to study. He'd probably lay things out as straightforwardly as he can to them and let them make their own decision, and assuming they accepted (because even with the conditions he's the premier Runesmith in the Far North and it's probably a pretty good deal) he's not exactly lacking in connections and resources to ensure they're adequately educated while he's away, considering he's running a literal Runesmith educational institution.
 
[X] [Snorri:] No.
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)
 
[X] [Snorri:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 10 turns)
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)
 
TheDuke said:
I mean, even without soul's clarification, I'd still want to give Snorri a bit more credit here? Like, I don't think he'd be so hideously irresponsible as to take a kid in, tell them he's going to train them to be the best Runesmith there ever was, and then vanish into the wilderness for the better part of ten years and leave them with nothing but some textbooks to study. He'd probably lay things out as straightforwardly as he can to them and let them make their own decision, and assuming they accepted (because even with the conditions he's the premier Runesmith in the Far North and it's probably a pretty good deal) he's not exactly lacking in connections and resources to ensure they're adequately educated while he's away, considering he's running a literal Runesmith educational institution.
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The fundamental hideous irresponsibility is taking an apprentice on (in this case I mean one of the thirty year old ones, based on the clarification), and then going to blast his soul with worldshaping magic that might hurt him badly (even with all our prep).

I can see your point, maybe I should give him a bit more credit - but two years (one ap) of personal one on one instruction is still not a lot for even Snorri to work with.

Also from the perspective of any child or thirty year old, the guy offering such a choice as you are outlining - you say yes anyway. He's too prestigious, and too good at his job to pass up.
 
[X] [Snorri:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 10 turns)
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)
 
There is also how every new apprentice adds another character which necessarily subtracts from the amount of possible interaction we have with already established characters. All the book series I read with like a hundred named characters suffered for it due to lack of 'screen time' and remember-that-guy fatigue.
 
steampvnc1880 said:
There is also how every new apprentice adds another character which necessarily subtracts from the amount of possible interaction we have with already established characters. All the book series I read with like a hundred named characters suffered for it due to lack of 'screen time' and remember-that-guy fatigue.
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Its already happened with Nain and Fjolla (who's hype basically got eaten by Snerra).

Nain is *kinda* working it back with the lift but we'll see if that maintains.
 
[X] [Snorri:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 10 turns)
[X] [Karstah:] Yes. Apprentice Vote in next Turn Results. (Taking apprentices will lock minimum 1 action per turn for 12 turns)
I like apprentices
 
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