Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

That seems even more risky and potentially problematic.

Instead I'd like to prevail upon the thread to give into the latent infernal instinct to make diabolic pacts.

Maybe we'll catch a dead super god, maybe we'll piss it off, maybe we'll stir up shit in the doom puddle.

But if it works though. :V
 
My main theory:
Lamentations is an Abyssal Exalt that used the Free Will of a mortal human to choose to not push for the annihilation of Creation. A power that's of the ocean of oblivion that the Neverborn are in, but isn't aligned against Creation existing. If there was only Oblivion there'd be no Hunger and no way to sate that Hunger. There'd be nothing at all. That wouldn't be bad but it's not the preference of the mortal of that Exaltation. If nothing exists and there's no past, then it doesn't matter when Creation is sunk to Oblivion which means it also doesn't matter if the Abyssal acts to sink Creation today because nothing will exist including the decision they could make so they're allowed to procrastinate since it won't matter in the end.

Rules Lawyering basically.

The Ocean, then, is the next layer down from where we're at. Where the Nephilim was at could support 2nd Age workings, so this could also be a place of 2nd Age (and the Ocean would be 1st Age) or this could be 1st Age and the Ocean is whatever the Primordials were cast to when mutilated into the Neverborn. The implication that things went off early could be the fact that the whole working was supposed to get all the way to the Neverborn but didn't make it before everything involved (but the Abyssal and the Nephilim) died. Stalling out in 2nd Age when you need to get past the 1st Age to find the Neverborn would be a failure for sure, but also just making the attempt would drag mortals (and apparently even Vampires) so far into Oblivion that they can't/don't survive.

maybe we can get the Abyssal to make choices that we'd like it to make. Maybe the best thing for it is the current state of things (mostly eradicated Black Court, mostly inactive Abyssal keeping an eye on the Ocean). There's an ongoing theme of our Infernal nature allowing for better outcomes than the perpetual stalemate suffering of Dresdenverse or WoD, so I won't say definitively that there's no way to recruit/help Lamentations in a way that'd be good for Creation/Us. That said: I'm for slow rolling this and doing our best not to fight
 
My main theory:
Lamentations is an Abyssal Exalt that used the Free Will of a mortal human to choose to not push for the annihilation of Creation. A power that's of the ocean of oblivion that the Neverborn are in, but isn't aligned against Creation existing. If there was only Oblivion there'd be no Hunger and no way to sate that Hunger. There'd be nothing at all. That wouldn't be bad but it's not the preference of the mortal of that Exaltation. If nothing exists and there's no past, then it doesn't matter when Creation is sunk to Oblivion which means it also doesn't matter if the Abyssal acts to sink Creation today because nothing will exist including the decision they could make so they're allowed to procrastinate since it won't matter in the end.

Rules Lawyering basically.

The Ocean, then, is the next layer down from where we're at. Where the Nephilim was at could support 2nd Age workings, so this could also be a place of 2nd Age (and the Ocean would be 1st Age) or this could be 1st Age and the Ocean is whatever the Primordials were cast to when mutilated into the Neverborn. The implication that things went off early could be the fact that the whole working was supposed to get all the way to the Neverborn but didn't make it before everything involved (but the Abyssal and the Nephilim) died. Stalling out in 2nd Age when you need to get past the 1st Age to find the Neverborn would be a failure for sure, but also just making the attempt would drag mortals (and apparently even Vampires) so far into Oblivion that they can't/don't survive.

maybe we can get the Abyssal to make choices that we'd like it to make. Maybe the best thing for it is the current state of things (mostly eradicated Black Court, mostly inactive Abyssal keeping an eye on the Ocean). There's an ongoing theme of our Infernal nature allowing for better outcomes than the perpetual stalemate suffering of Dresdenverse or WoD, so I won't say definitively that there's no way to recruit/help Lamentations in a way that'd be good for Creation/Us. That said: I'm for slow rolling this and doing our best not to fight
There's something to this. Younget an abyssal shard while dying. With proper setup, nothing, in theory, says you can't get one while being stillborn. That would satisfy the data we have about it.
That seems even more risky and potentially problematic.

Instead I'd like to prevail upon the thread to give into the latent infernal instinct to make diabolic pacts.

Maybe we'll catch a dead super god, maybe we'll piss it off, maybe we'll stir up shit in the doom puddle.

But if it works though. :V
It's not suggested as a serious course of action (for now). At most I might suggest diving in to fis our whatever part of the Lamentations is inside the Ocean.
…..I'm not convinced that this is anything like water or even liquid such that Boiling Sea Mastery might apply.
Also gonna say that I think there's a big difference between oil made out of….plants and animals, and ?oil? made out of a Neverborn. Big difference.

Also. Uh. Pretty sure you can't kill the neverborn like that. Historical precedent suggests that Lydia cannot, actually, kill a Dead Primordial extra dead.

I'm also going to say that I'm pretty sure merging with Cecelyne would not permit you to traverse her in less than 5 days, and by that same principle it is likely you can't reach the bottom of an infinite "ocean" that easily.
All valid counter points, yes.
 
I have to say it's nice to see all the conversation going on, a lot of fun theories. I can of course neither confirm nor deny anything. ;)
Speaking of conversation, could you clarify something? Previously we have used the Crown to ask what [Perfected Principle of Consumption] was. We learned it was a Neverborn, and got at least some successes on understanding what it is (I think that was the first time there was a roll involved in understanding the crown, and we sadly didn't use an excellency). We almost certainly got enough to recognize it on sight / feel. And, if I am not mistaken, we also somehow either learned or deduced that Black Court was made by it (I think it was Bob's knowledge that provided the information). So, how does this mesh with the current situation? If this is the progeny of Black Court before us, are we speaking to an avatar (Fetich, Jotun, whatever) of [Perfected Principle of Consumption]?
 
Speaking of conversation, could you clarify something? Previously we have used the Crown to ask what [Perfected Principle of Consumption] was. We learned it was a Neverborn, and got at least some successes on understanding what it is (I think that was the first time there was a roll involved in understanding the crown, and we sadly didn't use an excellency). We almost certainly got enough to recognize it on sight / feel. And, if I am not mistaken, we also somehow either learned or deduced that Black Court was made by it (I think it was Bob's knowledge that provided the information). So, how does this mesh with the current situation? If this is the progeny of Black Court before us, are we speaking to an avatar (Fetich, Jotun, whatever) of [Perfected Principle of Consumption]?

As far as Molly can intuit: The being before you seems distinct from the Sea, it is standing up here on the ledge not swimming down there in the water.
 
As far as Molly can intuit: The being before you seems distinct from the Sea, it is standing up here on the ledge not swimming down there in the water.
Is the Ocean connected to [Perfected Principle of Consumption] from what Molly can sense / understand?

In any case if Lamentations of the Void is a separate entity, the "Abyssal exalt" theory becomes more plausible.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yog on Feb 7, 2025 at 5:58 PM, finished with 60 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Keep it talking, if it's going to give you free insights you won't say no
    -[X] Activate All Things Betray with Willpower, Empathy excellency
    -[X] Use the Crown on the scene to understand the true nature of the thing in front of you
    --[X] If a roll is needed to understand the results, activate Occult Excellency
    -[X] "You speak of the world without sun being free, but have you ever thought that the Sun was born... so shadows would exist?" you speak, leading, goading the dreadful being into speaking more.
    [X] Plan Devil and the Deep Dark Sea
    -[X] Full social buffs and FPoR
    -[X] Try to tempt the spirit into taking a deal to interact with the living in a more hospitable way in our service, the goal being to build towards a personal rebirth into something that can truly live instead of merely exist.
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS and FSB to allow the shadow something closer to life.
    -[X] [Stunt]: Straightening up to her full height, Molly drank deeply of her own distant light - setting the colors of an alien dawn flickering behind her eyes.
    —[X] "You asked us if it would be so bad to live without the sun, but I'm more interested in your answer" meeting its empty eyes, a poisonous curiosity seeped into her voice. "You watch the sea, but seek the surface. Mock the living for their delusions, but seep into those prisons of bone to steal them".
    —[X] "You are of the dark's hunger, but do not want to be satisfied". The smile of a child filled to bursting with a secret cut across her face like a knife as she leaned forward. "Isn't the light beautiful? Are not the dreams tantalizing?"
    —-[X] "Is this really enough for you?". The radiance of her anima burned with new intensity, but did not banish or pierce the darkness so much as reach out to it.
    —[X] "You know what I am too. The wheel turns, and in my strange eons why must you eternal lie?"
    [X] Keep it talking, if it's going to give you free insights you won't say no
 
The fact that the goddamn Neverborn might hear us asking questions changes the risk equation a bit.

With my plan maybe we trigger violence or a negative reaction from the sea, but the slower route is taking a similarly unknown risk of the same outcome. Even if it doesn't work the reaction should be informative. We really don't want a reaction like Demonreach's from this place.



The slow approach in general has advantages, but do not upskirt the elder god.
 
The fact that the goddamn Neverborn might hear us asking questions changes the risk equation a bit.

With my plan maybe we trigger violence or a negative reaction from the sea, but the slower route is taking a similarly unknown risk of the same outcome. Even if it doesn't work the reaction should be informative. We really don't want a reaction like Demonreach's from this place.



The slow approach in general has advantages, but do not upskirt the elder god.
In my defense, in my vote, we are asking a question, and looking into the Lamentations of the Void, not the Ocean. There is a part of the Lamentations in the Ocean, but they are distinct beings. So, there is a risk, and I acknowledge it, but we are already flaring our anima at the shore of the Ocean, so I don't think that unless we ask about the Ocean itself, we are risking any additional notice. But we should be cautious about asking things about the Ocean itself. At least that's how I understood the warning.
 
but we are already flaring our anima at the shore of the Ocean, so I don't think that unless we ask about the Ocean itself, we are risking any additional notice
Though this assumes that flaring our anima and firing off the Crown are equally as noticable rather than one being more than the other.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 8, 2025 at 4:07 AM, finished with 68 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Keep it talking, if it's going to give you free insights you won't say no
    -[X] Activate All Things Betray with Willpower, Empathy excellency
    -[X] Use the Crown on the scene to understand the true nature of the thing in front of you
    --[X] If a roll is needed to understand the results, activate Occult Excellency
    -[X] "You speak of the world without sun being free, but have you ever thought that the Sun was born... so shadows would exist?" you speak, leading, goading the dreadful being into speaking more.
    [X] Plan Devil and the Deep Dark Sea
    -[X] Full social buffs and FPoR
    -[X] Try to tempt the spirit into taking a deal to interact with the living in a more hospitable way in our service, the goal being to build towards a personal rebirth into something that can truly live instead of merely exist.
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS and FSB to allow the shadow something closer to life.
    -[X] [Stunt]: Straightening up to her full height, Molly drank deeply of her own distant light - setting the colors of an alien dawn flickering behind her eyes.
    —[X] "You asked us if it would be so bad to live without the sun, but I'm more interested in your answer" meeting its empty eyes, a poisonous curiosity seeped into her voice. "You watch the sea, but seek the surface. Mock the living for their delusions, but seep into those prisons of bone to steal them".
    —[X] "You are of the dark's hunger, but do not want to be satisfied". The smile of a child filled to bursting with a secret cut across her face like a knife as she leaned forward. "Isn't the light beautiful? Are not the dreams tantalizing?"
    —-[X] "Is this really enough for you?". The radiance of her anima burned with new intensity, but did not banish or pierce the darkness so much as reach out to it.
    —[X] "You know what I am too. The wheel turns, and in my strange eons why must you eternal lie?"
    [X] Keep it talking, if it's going to give you free insights you won't say no
    [X] Abstain
 
Arc 15 Post 55: Carion Child New
Carion Child

Elsewhere, Time Indeterminate

What stands before me? you ask again, your own voice echoing in your own ears more and more distant as though falling away from the sound of it down a uncharted chasm filled with the sound of waves.

The sea around all around is not dead and neither is it black, it foams and froths green and white under the rays of a pale veiled sun which still seems larger than the one you know. Dozens of people crowd the tilting deck, a jostling mass of faded colors and torn hems, unfamiliar robes and sashes emblazoned with flowers and beasts, Cyanin cranes and Amphiro Orchids. You can barely move your hands any more, limbs too heavy as if the child you bear, having taken everything else now wanted to sup on your life. Yet you cannot bring yourself to curse him, gift of grief that he be... Child of the dead. Dead are the peaks claw their way up towards a veiled sky breathing not smoke, but a cold murk that shimmered like shroud over grandfather's face. Darkmist Island cold and dreaded, the stuff of stories to scare disobedient children, though you never held to such things...

Why, why, why am I going here?

Each question sounds like a blow of fists against glass as you take flight as if on the wings of a corpse white seabird and see from afar the thrice ruin of Okeanos into the cold seas. That rise up in cataclysm that would end an age, moved by tragedies as distant from the fleet of the deposessed as the face of heaven. The child within would never be born, made seed of a purpose unspeakable. Teath of hunger, claws of dread tore at flesh and spirit, a thing far off.... Fool-Lackey-Madman... lashed at them like the storm and all were dead and all were made not, a hungering swarm fit for the war that would herald.

One of many, one of countless, hungering ghosts hammered into a mold to contain the raw power of the Grave, a creature never meant to survive the first clash, much less the last, but the plots of great minds are oft brought to ruin. So fell the bodhisattva of those waters and in the carrion world that remained before the new dawn it is the scavenger who thrived, or at the very least endured born aloft on a graveyard wind.

It remembered that it was born of mortal death, though it was never living not even for an instant.

Down, down, down it sank in the passing of the world until a day not fateful, but fateless another will called it in mirrored want. That man might want to be eternal in death, and death stillborn might wish to be man.

Thus you know the one who calls himself Lamentations of the Void is well named, once many they a weapon, now wearing the face of a child never born.... Neverborn, it echoes with a symmetry transcendent in its emptiness. It, they were meant to fight a war horrifying beyond what the tongue of man can tell, one that had outlived its usefulness, then outlived its maker and at last its whole world, spreading its hunger and desire abroad in the world, final black legacy of one long since consigned to the maw of Oblivion:

Bodhisattva... Anointed by Dark Waters

As for that title, it too has weight in your mind, hatred and contempt as if cast from lead. You return to yourself with jarring immediacy the feeling of blood in your veins, of hair rising on the back of your neck, of steel rungs chaffing your neck under the padding almost painfully clear, every fiber of your body clamoring to remind you: I am alive, I am not dead.

The ancient... ghost? —the word almost seems absurd to apply, it makes the horrors that infested the flesh of the Fallen seem quaint, almost harmless by comparison— looks up at you with empty eyes and you know it would wait like that even if you took ten thousand years to answer, for what are years to one who has endured whole ages of the world in endless hunger matched only by the ocean below?

"You speak of the world without sun being free, but have you ever thought that the Sun was born... so shadows would exist?" you ask at least, trying to goad it into more answers.

"So they live, that they may die, metamorphosis of black butterflies in the wind." the carrion child chants. "So it is and so am I, but..." he frowns. "If you agree with my porpose why are you here, sword in mind if not yet in hand?"

An image from Return of the Living Dead flashes through your mind, corkboard pinned butterflies flapping their wings. Did... did Aakebushu see it? True he's speaking English, but the thought of some infested corpse propped up in front of an old static-ridden TV watching a classic horror comedy seems itself too much like a cruel joke to be real.

"Why does it have be be one purose, a river flowing straight in narrow banks? Light is, many hued, from many points sprung, be they sun star, a flashlight's fillament or an angler fish's lure and so shadows are in in just as many shapes, the world is meant to have shadows I think, but shadows alone a lonely world would make."

Aakebushu nods, again that odd clockwork gesture. "It does get lonely down here, most who make it this far slip and fall in."

"Who was the last one?" Lydia asks, in the tone of someone who dreads the answer they might get.

"Him that took from the waters Daughter of Ma'at, the waters you bear" the eyeless face turns towards her without guile or even malice. "You hear the ocean don't you? I hear it's echo in you like a seashel brought to the ear."

For a moment all you can do is stare at Lydia as you try to kick your brain into gear, but Tiffany has no such qualms. "Interesting to know I am not the only sprouted form dark roots. I still mentain though that mine are the darkest."

"What... what did...?" Lydia looks at you, as if for conformation that this is a time to talk, not fight. It's obvious what she wants to ask: What did Kemler do?

Lydia Essence 6/7 (0/3 Jade Talisman)
Molly Essence 9/18
Molly Willpower 8/9


What does Molly answer?

[] The more you hear about this thing the less you want to stab it, as mad as that may sound

[] Try to trick it into telling you more, then get rid of it

[] Write in


OOC: Some pretty good guesses between last update and this, but you missed one thing, not everything has to be an exalted, the second age was brought to an end by cataclysmic war, new weapons are made. In this case made and lost and... mutated. This is something like a necromantic Von Neumann machine that outlived not just its creators, but the very memory of them at least until Molly's Exaltation half-remembered old enimities.
 
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