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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
Before I sleep, an argument for my design - abandoning human form completely is a thematically wrong choice, from both parts of the crossover:
1) From bible lore, humans are made in the image of god. Angels aren't.

2) All the greatest exalted beings have some sort of human like shape. Ligier is a green sun, but is also a four armed man. Malfeas is both a demon city and a brass dancer. Etc. Devil Tigers are transprimordials without abandoning their humanity and exaltations.

3) We fight with a sword. We open doors, swing a forging hammer, make sorcerous gestures with hands. We speek with a mouth. Some concession to practicality should be given.

4) This is Molly building upon herself. Her charms, her choices, I feel should be reflected in her godbody.

Which are all the reasons I went with my design. It's supposed to be transhuman and divine. I sprinkled the following references in there:
1) Colorless flame crown - Theion had colorless flames
2) Dragon Hair - reference to twin dragons in Sanctuary
3) Eyes that always look back - "gazing into the Abyss" saying. Five irises - imagine that the whole of Sanctuary is an eye, the window of the soul
4) multiple limbs is fairly obvious

There are more, but I really want to sleep
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That thing with the human form is a very tenuous connection when you literally have her making Buddhist/Hindu gestures and drawing her most significant features from the same.

Those are some nice themes, but not really the idiom of Molly's soul.

On the other figures; most of them have multiple forms they take. Molly isn't giving up her human aspect if that even matters in the first place.

I don't understand why it's a problem for a devout Christian experiencing a revelation about reality from seeing how Angels Fall to carry an echo of that.

Certainly it seems irregular for Bertie Bott's every flavored eastern spiritualism to make it in and none of her own.
 
[ ] Vorrathis Aetherasax

To speak more on the themes I was going for I wanted this to show as Molly's own Fury and divinity. The exalted are Divine Heroes on the whole and she is seized her Divinity to a large extent she is the Creator goddess of the five fold Court.

The iron storm that circles the border of her world of her soul and the cities that are contained therein and the where the plasma that illuminates the safe Zone above all the cities and the flowing tenacity and strength of the Cities are represented by her veins in her storm form.

The sanctuary she created for the people that were dearest to her every that is made of the very fabric of her soul from the plasma rings to the iron storms to the cities are considerably more important to her then a loose connection to a faith that she knows is wrong. From Harry her father angels all saying that people are grasping essentially blind that an elephant when they focus on God her Catholic leanings are mostly in behavior and upbringing rather than true belief.

BronzeTongue I don't mean anything by this I really like the design but yours seems to be biblical for the sake of being Biblical. She knows God didn't make mankind she knows that God didn't even make reality full stop.

She knows there were other Creator gods and there was a time before let there be light where other Creator gods acted for her truest form to essentially be a knockoff Orphanim is strange at least to me there's nothing to suggest that she holds such a deep reverence either she doesn't have true faith in Dresden Files or in this Quest.

She also doesn't seem to consider herself an instrument of the Lord (which the wheels literally are) and she definitely didn't in the books and here we have gone to places where the actual Servants of God could not it just seems strange for her to make a connection on such a deep level that she should be an angel.
 
[X] The Empress to Come

Much as I like the whole "Be Not Afraid" imagery, I don't want to forget that Exalted are still--at the core--Human, even if Infernals really stretch the definition.
 
Im pissed that you didnt add any catholic references in the design, she has been living in a catholic household most of her life, so the fact she lacks them is honestly weird. Secondly the design doesnt sound Molly to me, the Stella Prasinus seems more connected to our true nature than the demigod asura of war, as Molly is also a crafter, spellcaster and ruler and not only a warrior.

Ed I think you all are taking the new design because It seems cooler than what actual feels more real to Molly
 
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BoredMan said:
So this is the part where we decide on a design and signature Charm for it?
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DragonParadox said:
Yes.
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Sesparra said:
Vorrathis Aetherasax
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Silvereagle21 said:
Vorrathis Aetherasax
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恐Drake said:
Vorrathis Aetherasax
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Would any of you mind if I added the Shadow Spite Curse as signature? If not this would be of the flavor text and the reasoning everything that's different is bolded.
Degorium said:
Vorrathis Aetherasax​
Seeming to collapse in on herself the very fabric of reality seems to pull in with her thinner and thinner until it tears, her peerless metallic armor shreds into an endless Cascade of flowing iron, a shifting Tempest of iron Sands. The edges of her form becoming distinct blurred by the ceaseless motion. The very fabric of reality seems to bleed around every grain and every movement.

Throughout this form multiplicitous veins of burning plasma, deep ancient gold, a blazing ruby red, a sharp emerald brilliance, flowing Sapphire cold and mesmerizing, an eerie amethyst radiance emanating, coiling.

At the very center where a heart should have been a green star impossible, searing, alien, a viridescent glow cast Shadows that should not be, a pulsing inexorable rhythm of something ancient writhing, Beyond mortal comprehension. The wounds of reality pulse and bleed the shadow that should not be synchronous to the inevitable beat.

This is no mere light it is hunger, it is hatred, it is Will Incarnate, a beacon of Untamed power around which reality lenses and unravels by which the storm of metal and plasma is bound.

Demonic Aspects Non- mechanical explanation
Flexible - used in Incarnate Apotheosis Shintai to represent non-solidity.
Body Spikes - Raging iron tempest, Veins of Plasma, Star heart could be any of them.
Demon Armor - body became iron sand
Signature non mechanical explanation
Shadow Spite Curse - Fury, Divinity, Strength reality itself rends when the final form is revealed.
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If you have any possible other signature charms in mind I'd love to hear about it I won't change or add anything until tomorrow so please let me know.
 
Degorium said:
angels all saying that people are grasping essentially blind that an elephant when they focus on God her Catholic leanings are mostly in behavior and upbringing rather than true belief.

BronzeTongue I don't mean anything by this I really like the design but yours seems to be biblical for the sake of being Biblical. She knows God didn't make mankind she knows that God didn't even make reality full stop.
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Molly is absolutely certain the white god exists and genuinely worships him. She doesn't know he didn't make this version of reality, or this version of humans. In fact the crown question we asked suggested a cyclical rebuilding of the world wherein the white god actually did guide this round.

We're not playing agnostic Dresden or Sanya the atheist knight of the cross. The idea that she's a cultural Catholic is misplaced.

I'd like to point out that my design draws from a number of different sources ranging from Lieger to the FCF. The syntax of the arrangement being heavily angelic yes, but the message being conveyed is very Molly.

I get what you're going for with your design, and on its own I like the look of it. My issues with it are that it's so purely physical that it's almost clinically detached from what it represents, and that it doesn't really reflect how foundational a moment the scene that prompted this is or the shape or Molly's belief system.


Degorium said:
She also doesn't seem to consider herself an instrument of the Lord (which the wheels literally are) and she definitely didn't in the books and here we have gone to places where the actual Servants of God could not it just seems strange for her to make a connection on such a deep level that she should be an angel
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Keeping the green fire doesn't make us a servant of Lanka, or Lieger's intern.

Drawing inspiration from the things that impact them is a normal exalted behavior.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Molly is absolutely certain the white god exists and genuinely worships him. She doesn't know he didn't make this version of reality, or this version of humans. In fact the crown question we asked suggested a cyclical rebuilding of the world wherein the white god actually did guide this round.

We're not playing agnostic Dresden or Sanya the atheist knight of the cross. The idea that she's a cultural Catholic is misplaced.
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I could go digging for quotes I'm not going to that exists and she does believe him to be God that is true we have interacted with other Creator Gods she deliberately called them that in the ritual to make Lydia essentially in exigent she calls the never-born I can't remember the name a different Creator God straight up.

She knows that this version of reality is made by capital G God but she also knows that the fundamentals of reality weren't made by God. The Catholic the whole Christian theology to begin with is let there be light and God makes reality as a whole even they're being a fundament before God is heresy or completely antithetical to abrahamic religions.

Molly also got busted for having ecstasy and marijuana before this story started while very specifically wearing jewelry and goth clothing while out of the house and changing into more conservative ones when she came back.

She's a cultural Catholic in the sense she holds to General Catholic morality and the belief that God is real and that's pretty much it because she knows most of that is false. She knows God doesn't care if people worship them. Uriel said God does not actually provide an actually eternal Paradise. The main premise of Christianity as a whole.
BronzeTongue said:
I'd like to point out that my design draws from a number of different sources ranging from Lieger to the FCF. The syntax of the arrangement being heavily angelic yes, but the message being conveyed is very Molly.
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What message thematically speaking you created an orphanim with teeth and wings. There is more reference to Malfeas than there is to the five Court of fate. Carved prayers are literally surface details.

The Rings are made of brass the metal of Malfeas it is centered around a pole star which is cool but that's a direct Biblical reference rather than anything to do with the five-fold court. Every reference that isn't a surface level detail voice and literal surface detail on the rings that are called back to a different guy is either biblical or Malfean. Even the name of the transformation is a direct biblical reference.

BronzeTongue said:
I get what you're going for with your design, and on its own I like the look of it. My issues with it are that it's so purely physical that it's almost clinically detached from what it represents, and that it doesn't really reflect how foundational a moment the scene that prompted this is or the shape or Molly's belief system.
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Honestly I have the same problem with yours it is so conceptually anchored to something that Molly was only kind of attached to. In Canon she doesn't go to church at all she practices magic and she help someone commit suicide straight up.

I also believe that I am reflecting on how foundational this scene that prompts this awareness is because a being that was made on the command of God could just straight up believe that he was absent or unspeaking on his throne all of the nephilium are made by his command and one of them can straight up believe he is not there.

We have seen multiple Angels who have defied God's Will were reduced almost infinitesimally for doing so and still they defy him. We have been to Hell's where apparently ministers under God's will have rebelled and grind The Souls of people who end up in their realms and yet still they defy the will of God.

I fully believe she believes in God she worships him as the maker of the world but all evidence points to him being a Divine watchmaker rather than the Almighty. This is all in character information.

This is all before the fact that humans shouldn't want to be Angels that's not just super heretical it's spitting in the face of God because you are made in His image. If you really want to be extremely technical about a conceptual connection between her Catholicism and her transformation then she should definitively still be human shaped.

Her faith is partially shaped by her father being a sword of the Cross which has essentially a human wielding an angel as a sword humans even when acting as an instrument of God's will is still human.

Everything she's learned about God's views on humanity and the Fallen views on Humanity ( human Free Will and Humanity being a massive weak point in the protection of reality/ having magic) would suggest she should stay human shaped if we're going with this connection in her faith.

While my own take may seem particularly focused on the physical it's really not or very least it's not just the physical.

The Iron storm that generates the magnetic field of the five fold Court also serves as the metaphysical boundary between the outside and the inside it's the thing that replaces her armor.

She becomes an embodiment of her kingdom the place that she created to make sure everyone she cares about is safe her Sanctuary. In that moment the lifeblood of her kingdom are the people and the people are in the Labyrinth that is her heart at that moment and in the cities which become her lifeblood and the Ring of plasma that cradles all of them.

Plasma doesn't come in a gold flavor nor a ruby or Sapphire or Emerald they're strictly representative of the peoples of those cities all of the Cities themselves and their connection to her heart the Labyrinth and her throne her will, her hatred her Hunger.
BronzeTongue said:
Keeping the green fire doesn't make us a servant of Lanka, or Lieger's intern.

Drawing inspiration from the things that impact them is a normal exalted behavior.
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It's a bit more than inspiration when it's the central thesis of your design. That entire form factor of being multiple rings of eyes is the orphanim's whole thing. They are the wheels of God's chariot. Unless Molly's had some kind of ego complex where she believes that she's literally the will of God, I just don't get it.
 
[X] Vorrathis Aetherasax
[X] Stella Prasinus
-[X] Flexible
-[X] Hardened Devil Body
-[X] Demon Armor
 
I think I'll weigh in a bit on this discussion. I'm personally more on the Degorium side. However, Molly hasn't internalized all of these revelations yet. She hasn't acknowledged them yet. Like this Nephilim, she denies the truth in her heart. And I hope this arc will be the final straw, and we'll finally start asking the hard theological questions.

And frankly, a design closer to angels can also push her to realisation. Honestly, this is just a cool design and I like it. But frankly, if we use heretical logic, this is not Molly imitating angels. But she is on the path to becoming a creator with her form in the form of her creator as a homage to him.
 
Yog said:
1) From bible lore, humans are made in the image of god. Angels aren't.

2) All the greatest exalted beings have some sort of human like shape. Ligier is a green sun, but is also a four armed man. Malfeas is both a demon city and a brass dancer. Etc. Devil Tigers are transprimordials without abandoning their humanity and exaltations.

3) We fight with a sword. We open doors, swing a forging hammer, make sorcerous gestures with hands. We speek with a mouth. Some concession to practicality should be given.

4) This is Molly building upon herself. Her charms, her choices, I feel should be reflected in her godbody.
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1) We are a new creator and usher of a new age, we don't have to and shouldn't stay confined to a human form just because it's supposedly god's. Even less when you remember that this is an exalted cross and that the primordials don't really follow that logic.

2) our shintai already cover that role in that case, they moght have humanoid forms but they don't have only a humanoid form, Ligier is still a green sun, Malfeas is still a demon city.

3) Nothing here require a humanoid form, all it requires are grasping appendages with high dexterity and a vocal aparatus. We have telekinesis too, so the first isn't even necessary.

4) BronzeTongue and Degorium's ideas have the exact same reasoning, there is more than one way to reflect Molly's choice and charms.
 
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fictionfan said:
Is it possible the we could have our sword transform into a key blade in this form? I like the symbolism.
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Up to @DragonParadox of course, but I hope so. If we become multi-aspected, manifesting many "layers of reality" at once (and I am heavily borrowing from Demon the Fallen about this), then the piece of our soul that is our sword should also be doing this. Be a beam of light, and a sword, and the command of submission. A key to open reality and a demonic guide.
ImBuda said:
Im pissed that you didnt add any catholic references in the design, she has been living in a catholic household most of her life, so the fact she lacks them is honestly weird. Secondly the design doesnt sound Molly to me, the Stella Prasinus seems more connected to our true nature than the demigod asura of war, as Molly is also a crafter, spellcaster and ruler and not only a warrior.

Ed I think you all are taking the new design because It seems cooler than what actual feels more real to Molly
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Catholic imagery is a fair point - I guess teeth icons might count a bit? But otherwise, multiple hands and faces are meant to represent Molly's many aspected nature. I specifically refer to how Molly is many things at once on several occasions. This one design choice I am ready to defend at the moment.

I may try to do some adjustments. Do you or anyone else have any suggestions?

BronzeTongue said:
That thing with the human form is a very tenuous connection when you literally have her making Buddhist/Hindu gestures and drawing her most significant features from the same.

Those are some nice themes, but not really the idiom of Molly's soul.

On the other figures; most of them have multiple forms they take. Molly isn't giving up her human aspect if that even matters in the first place.

I don't understand why it's a problem for a devout Christian experiencing a revelation about reality from seeing how Angels Fall to carry an echo of that.

Certainly it seems irregular for Bertie Bott's every flavored eastern spiritualism to make it in and none of her own.
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Eastern spiritualism is meant to be more exalted side leaking in, as is the colorless flame crown (that's a direct reference to Theion). As to the christian angel - we just saw those angels. They were stars, flame without form, multi-spectre light:
DragonParadox said:
He came in splendor and power, garbed in all phases of light, no serpent he, no wings he bore, for he was spirit Imperishable before your sight He was the highest agent of the highest House, the Seraph of the Morning. He was Lucifer, and every iota in his presence hummed to the melody of his purpose. Sayeth him: 'The Throne of God is Silent and He Unmoved as cold and dark as the void we have been tear at life's foundations. Are we not Wise, are we not born of that same wisdom?'

Thunder his voice was as only a Herald most sublime might sound and yet in those words there was no trace of peace and purpose, of unity that marked the making of the world. It was a call to motion where there had been stillness, it was the sound of celestial orrery breaking, it was the trumpet blast of strife's beginning, it was the chariot of war rolling with wheels of fire. In each wheel a serpent devoured its tail, forever feasting growing monstrous huge, yet never from the axle shifting. Gears they were and gears they had remained, poor suffering servants of a rebellion three ages too late.

Sayeth him: "We can show them the truth, we can arm them for war, we can ready the forge and light now the coals. Let the stars burn as heralds, let the seas rise with purpose. Let them fight. What good was a seed that was burned before sapling could sprout, let them fight!"

"And if they are unready?" A question that rises like dissonant tremble of a dying quasar.
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Nyarky said:
1) We are a new creator and usher of a new age, we don't have to and shouldn't stay confined to a human form just because it's supposedly god's. Even less when you remember that this is an exalted cross and that the primordials don't really follow that logic.

2) our shintai already cover that role in that case, they moght have humanoid forms but they don't have only a humanoid form, Ligier is still a green sun, Malfeas is still a demon city.

3) Nothing here require a humanoid form, all it requires are grasping appendages with high dexterity and a vocal aparatus. We have telekinesis too, so the first isn't even necessary.

4) BronzeTongue and Degorium's ideas have the exact same reasoning, there is more than one way to reflect Molly's choice and charms.
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1) My argument is that both primordials and god and pretty much everyone else kinda do follow that logic. When Primordials made a perfection incarnate guardian of Creation, they created a four armed human, who is also the sun. When they forged a partner for him out of infinite probability and paradox, it became a beautiful maiden, and also the moon and an infinite number of monsters. Malfeas is the Demon City, but also the Brass Dancer. A lot of things are, even in their transhuman forms and aspects, are human and something else at the same time. And I feel this should ring true for a devil tiger especially. Transcend without discarding. Build upon, without dismissing. Manifest through the lens of humanity, to amplify godhood. That's the ideology and symbolism I am pushing.

2) Yes, exactly. And we are a green star, and a paradox of the promise to come, the self-answered prayer. I guess this hasn't come clear through the description?



Also, as an aside, another very important part of the text:
servants of a rebellion three ages too late.
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Three ages too late is a lore bomb drop. Right now we are in the fifth cosmological age - we know that. Depending on if this happened within this age, or immediately prior, this would put the time when the rebelion was "due" into either first or second age. First Age was Creation of the Exalted. Second Age is either Age of Sorrows, still Creation of the Exalted, or after the first universal reboot. The implication may be either that the angelic Fall / rebellion would be in place during Primordial-Exalted War, or during the Fall of Creation. If he latter, God is almost certainly a Devil Tiger. If the former, God is either a Primordial, or something akin to one.

EDIT: To be honest, I just don't like the alternative presented aesthetics. Sorry about that.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Nyarky on Feb 4, 2025 at 1:05 AM, finished with 73 posts and 26 votes.
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Yog said:
Up to @DragonParadox of course, but I hope so. If we become multi-aspected, manifesting many "layers of reality" at once (and I am heavily borrowing from Demon the Fallen about this), then the piece of our soul that is our sword should also be doing this. Be a beam of light, and a sword, and the command of submission. A key to open reality and a demonic guide.

Catholic imagery is a fair point - I guess teeth icons might count a bit? But otherwise, multiple hands and faces are meant to represent Molly's many aspected nature. I specifically refer to how Molly is many things at once on several occasions. This one design choice I am ready to defend at the moment.

I may try to do some adjustments. Do you or anyone else have any suggestions?


Eastern spiritualism is meant to be more exalted side leaking in, as is the colorless flame crown (that's a direct reference to Theion). As to the christian angel - we just saw those angels. They were stars, flame without form, multi-spectre light:


1) My argument is that both primordials and god and pretty much everyone else kinda do follow that logic. When Primordials made a perfection incarnate guardian of Creation, they created a four armed human, who is also the sun. When they forged a partner for him out of infinite probability and paradox, it became a beautiful maiden, and also the moon and an infinite number of monsters. Malfeas is the Demon City, but also the Brass Dancer. A lot of things are, even in their transhuman forms and aspects, are human and something else at the same time. And I feel this should ring true for a devil tiger especially. Transcend without discarding. Build upon, without dismissing. Manifest through the lens of humanity, to amplify godhood. That's the ideology and symbolism I am pushing.

2) Yes, exactly. And we are a green star, and a paradox of the promise to come, the self-answered prayer. I guess this hasn't come clear through the description?



Also, as an aside, another very important part of the text:

Three ages too late is a lore bomb drop. Right now we are in the fifth cosmological age - we know that. Depending on if this happened within this age, or immediately prior, this would put the time when the rebelion was "due" into either first or second age. First Age was Creation of the Exalted. Second Age is either Age of Sorrows, still Creation of the Exalted, or after the first universal reboot. The implication may be either that the angelic Fall / rebellion would be in place during Primordial-Exalted War, or during the Fall of Creation. If he latter, God is almost certainly a Devil Tiger. If the former, God is either a Primordial, or something akin to one.

EDIT: To be honest, I just don't like the alternative presented aesthetics. Sorry about that.
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A cross at our back created from Green flame or hell materials or a pentagram (five elements five cities), instead of using a mudra to summon the transformation just use the praying sign from christianity , use a crown of demon thorns on our head not only signifying an heretic resemblance to Christ but also our nature as a leader... I dont know something like that
 
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NinjaOfOrthanc said:
I think it was that the Angel was torturing itself over the fact it Fell and Molly basically said: 'you made the choice to follow the Morningstar, so deal with it.'
Not sure though. If DP could chime in?
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That was 'you can still choose', that part of what Lucifer said was not a lie, just as he choose to fall he can now choose something else. Is it true? Molly has no idea, but she is getting into the habit of making things true when it comes to making the world a better place.
 
DragonParadox said:
That was 'you can still choose', that part of what Lucifer said was not a lie, just as he choose to fall he can now choose something else. Is it true? Molly has no idea, but she is getting into the habit of making things true when it comes to making the world a better place.
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Molly believes in redemption and all that. But we often come in as a third party talking about how you can still be a good person even if you never go back to God. At least that's the feeling I get.

Plus deals with the teenage hell emperor from the new modern hell shtik.
 
ImBuda said:
A cross at our back created from Green flame or hell materials or a pentagram (five elements five cities), instead of using a mudra to summon the transformation just use the praying sign from christianity , use a crown of demon thorns on our head not only signifying an heretic resemblance to Christ but also our nature as a leader... I dont know something like that
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I'll leave the crown as colorless flame, because it's a direct reference to Theion. The reference to Sanctuary is five irises of different colors in our eyes (essentially, think of "eyes are the windows of the soul" and Molly's eyes being a birdeye / satellite view of the Sanctuary, where each iris is one of the cities). I changed the gesture to one of prayer like so:
Her hands, or perhaps just their shadows, or maybe just their intent to move form themselves into a gesture of heartfelt prayer.
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I also added christian rosary with a bit of blasphemy in the mix:
A rosary hangs around her neck, carved of stone and bone, magic and numbers, each bead weighing as much as the moon, as little as sin, and connected by a triple helix strand of her soul's ancestry. The cross at the end of it may or may not be occupied by herself.
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This goes well with "human Molly is the image on the wall". In the unbound shintai state, human Molly is hung on a cross of her Unbound Eschaton Shintai's form's rosary.

The edits move from eastern iconography towards christian one. It's still a multi-armed, multi-headed being, but those exist in the Chrstian lore too.
 
Yog said:
I'll leave the crown as colorless flame, because it's a direct reference to Theion. The reference to Sanctuary is five irises of different colors in our eyes (essentially, think of "eyes are the windows of the soul" and Molly's eyes being a birdeye / satellite view of the Sanctuary, where each iris is one of the cities). I changed the gesture to one of prayer like so:

I also added christian rosary with a bit of blasphemy in the mix:

This goes well with "human Molly is the image on the wall". In the unbound shintai state, human Molly is hung on a cross of her Unbound Eschaton Shintai's form's rosary.

The edits move from eastern iconography towards christian one. It's still a multi-armed, multi-headed being, but those exist in the Chrstian lore too.
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Yep changing my vote, I prefer human bodies
 
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