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Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy

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Something I realised a few moments ago that I think is worth pointing out: if Fanriel challenges the priest to any sort of physical confrontation to sort this out, he may leap on that without giving her any further opportunity to make her case. Don't know if Blackout is going to be following the order of any of our plans at all strictly but perhaps worth considering in the formulation!
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
If we don't accept a fight from him when he challenges us, we're gonna have real problems commanding Ulricans, I think, and they're the majority of the available forces. That comes off as cowardice, and we cannot afford to come off as a coward. We're a foreign witch and this is a public confrontation, if we back down or rely on authority other than our own we risk damaging our standing severely. Reputation matters in our situation, and we can't afford any whispers at all of cowardice. If he challenges us, we have to fight him. We can say that the fight doesn't govern who's in charge if we like, but we have to show that we're willing to fight.

If we say we're willing to fight him, the willingness alone may be enough, and us shaping the contest likely becomes more acceptable. It's also important and relevant that the vote option does not say we will give up command if he beats us, it says we're willing to prove our strength to him. That's a very different thing.
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He might not even challenge us if we don't tell him we want to perform a feat of strength to prove ourself to him, and we're going to have a worse issue if we offer to prove we're worthy of command by performing a feat of strength, fail it, and then insist we're still going to be the commander. As is even in the worst case scenario that you're suggesting of him challenging us out of his own initiative for command, despite that requiring him to counter command the count, we can have a force with literally zero Ulricans by bringing in Westerlanders like the contingency in the troop outline suggested, but it seems like it'd be a lot harder to recover from losing something like a duel.

Stewart9 said:
While that is true we are not in Erengrad right now and I don't think the Highest Priest of Ulric in Ostland and a man the Ar-Ulric clearly trust's is someone that would spread around that the goal of the ritual the Wolfs died to help us stop was trying to summon a Daemon Prince. Telling this guy would fall under the whole alert the proper authorities Religious and Secular that the Norscan tribes are conducting rituals at the current time to summon things like Daemon Princes. I thing the High Priest of Ulric in Ostland would find that important information to know and would agree that stopping such a thing had to be done, though the cost was high.
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Razin didn't give us that sort of exception about us telling "the proper authorities Religious and Secular". He just asked us to not tell anyone. The guy was really good to us, essentially voluntarily tripling our pay when he didn't have to. I'd rather not break his trust if we can help it.

Plus the Ulrican priest is surrounded by his Teutogen guard bodyguard. Anything we tell him is going to be heard by them. We'd have to hope on not just one person keeping a secret if we tell him, but a dozen, all of which hold no particular affection to us or a sense that they owe us something like secrecy. Who says some of them won't want to publish the fact that Urskoy and his men died to stop a daemon summoning in order to make them look better to the public like we'd be trying to do now?
 
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I think Sertorius's plan The Whole Deal is close enough, but there are a few rough corners that can be smoothed / things that can be added. I may make such a plan soon. Meanwhile, time for observations.

First thing, do not mention the Count or make appeals to authority. That's hiding behind someone's skirts.
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We're a foreign witch and this is a public confrontation, if we back down or rely on authority other than our own we risk damaging our standing severely.
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Second, while there should be tactical considerations, this works best told as a story.
Sertorius said:
Tell the priest of the entire journey, the fight with the Khornate berserkers, of the magnificent stand of the Men-At-Arms, that fought with the Lightfangs side by side, sharing all of our perils, tying down whatever massive enemy forces they could.
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Ideally, the listeners should be "there with us": the landing on the docks, with us, the Ulricans and the Dwarves hammering at the Norscan sheildwall; then sending forces to different places in the town to look for the prisoners and prevent the Norscans from mustering an army. Then in the streets: the high priest should briefly hear of how we and the Ulrican contingent routed a force of Khornates with minimal casualties (do not cite the magic-divine duel with the shaman, the Yilvathoi would not understand). Then they should be surprised with us as we spot the ritual on the hill. Do we make it a Chaos Ritual, or a demon-summoning one? Whatever, just do not utter the words Daemon Prince. Daemon summoning can also happen in a battle, right?
Stewart9 said:
While that is true we are not in Erengrad right now and I don't think the Highest Priest of Ulric in Ostland and a man the Ar-Ulric clearly trust's is someone that would spread around that the goal of the ritual the Wolfs died to help us stop was trying to summon a Daemon Prince. Telling this guy would fall under the whole alert the proper authorities Religious and Secular that the Norscan tribes are conducting rituals at the current time to summon things like Daemon Princes. I thing the High Priest of Ulric in Ostland would find that important information to know and would agree that stopping such a thing had to be done, though the cost was high.
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Then, the High Priest of Ulric should be briefly facing the same question: how to stop it? Our answer, that Urskoy was on-board with, was to have the infantry tie up the enemy forces, while us personally and the Knights of the White Wolf would reach the top of the hill from the side on our steeds.
Imperious said:
Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role
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Then, the doom part: the PlagueWave of Nurgle killed a dozen knights and all the steeds. As the reserve Livgard converged on us, we had to do the same manoeuvre: the remaining knights on foot would fight a holding action, allowing us to break through, to kill the Shamans and free the prisoners that would have otherwise been fuel for the sacrifice.
Then the hill exploded, and we were unconscious, found by our allies.

As overall comment, we can say:
Ando Owen said:
Another argument we can put forward was how the mission was completely out of our expectations in term of danger. I think we started the mission expecting somewhat ordinary Norscans, and we ended up fighting dedicated Chaos sorcerers, their blessed bodyguards and a pissed off Chaos warlord.
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Finally, at the end of the tale, apologise for one thing: not having looked for the funeral of the Knights and Men-at-arms. And add that after this mission you will look for the last of the knights, and heal him if it is in your power, since you did not known he was crippled.
Why were you not there for the funeral? Because of being too preoccupied with where the enemy will strike next, and also healing our second in command that got nearly ripped in two by the poisoned blade of the Chaos-mutated lord of the Norscans.
 
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Netos said:
Finally, at the end of the tale, apologise for one thing: not having looked for the funeral of the Knights and Men-at-arms. And add that after this mission you will look for the last of the knights, and heal him if it is in your power, since you did not known he was crippled.
Why were you not there for the funeral? Because of being too preoccupied with where the enemy will strike next, and also healing our second in command that got nearly ripped in two by the poisoned blade of the Chaos-mutated lord of the Norscans.
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I'll be honest, I'm not inclined to apologize for anything, and I'm certainly not inclined to promise that we'll be looking for that last knight when we already have 4 of our 8 next actions during the coming downtime marked down.

Should we have gone to the funerals back then? I suppose so. The cult of Ulric is an influential enough power this far north that having to work with them again at some point was to be expected, and some people did expect it, so I'll take the L at then and admit to mea culpa. But I'm not going to debase ourself on how sorry we are that the people who insisted on taking the most dangerous roles in an extremely dangerous mission ended up taking heavy casualties. From the way that priest talks you'd think we ended up having them dying for the lolz, and not in order to wipe out an entire tribe of Chaos Norscans like actually happened. The only reason why that knight is even alive is because we took the time to heal him, but now we also have to apologize to him after already saving his life?

Mention that we respected Urskoy and his men, mention that they fought valiantly, mention that they died fighting for a worthy cause. That's all true and fine. But I'm not inclined to accept a narrative from this guy that we somehow have to show attonement for the wrong we caused the cult of Ulric by actually winning a fight against Chaos that involved a vanguard taking a lot of casualties like everyone expected they would.

Perhaps if the cult of Ulric is so daunted by the prospect of potentially taking heavy casualties in battle then they can take up some different vocation then going to fights that have nothing to do with them and demanding to be given the most dangerous roles in them. I hear sewing is doing good this time of the year.

As is Urskoy was literally scoffing at people pointing out to him how dangerous the vanguard role was:
Blackout said:
"Very good. Now I have said this before and I will say it again. Our mission to rescue Aleksantr and the other prisoners captured from Erengrad. That is what I am paying you for, not killing Norscans, and so that is what we are going to do."

"And if Aleksandr is nowhere to be found?" The Prophet asks pointedly, tilting their silvered mask. "How long will we spend searching for him, while the Norscans breathe down our necks?"

"Afraid to get into a proper fight, Southerner?" Templar-Commander Urskoy retorts contemptuously, adjusting his wolf-pelt cloak.

"We will cross that shallow when it comes," Razin replies. "Now, Commander Wavestrider has agreed to serve as a distraction, landing separately to draw the attention of the Norscans. This will give us breathing room to search for the captives."

You suppress a smile. He presents it as though it was his plan all along, but you have no doubt Yental didn't want the humans getting in his way, and told him the Sea Guard would be acting on their own.

"Just as well," Stonebeard spits at his feet, before glaring up at you. "Can't rely on elgi."

"In the meanwhile, we will be looking for anywhere the Norscans are keeping their slaves. Cages, pens, fighting pits, anything of that order. But first, we'll need to get to shore. Loremaster?"

"The landing will be when we are at our most vulnerable," you speak up. "Norscan wharfs are not designed for handling ships of this size and draft, meaning we'll have to unload by boat. We'll have to make multiple trips, during which we will only have a portion of our strength ashore."

"Whoever leads the first wave will face the Norscans alone while the other disembark," Dimondi muses. "The kind of tale songs are written about."

"Heroic songs, or japes about the poor fools who were slaughtered the moment their feet touched the ground?" Argentes jeers at him.

"Bah!" Urskoy snorts, rolling his armoured shoulders. "If you are afraid to get stuck in, the White Wolves will lead the way!"
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Seriously, enough is enough.
 
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The Knights didn't die at the first wave of the landing, which is what that conversation was about, they died at the Gudshöjd when Fanriel ordered them to do a shock charge through the Nurglite Livgard.
 
Blackout said:
The Knights didn't die at the first wave of the landing, which is what that conversation was about, they died at the Gudshöjd when Fanriel ordered them to do a shock charge through the Nurglite Livgard.
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Fair on the knights, but the priest was also complaining about the men at arms, and the men at arms apparently took much of their damage in the initial wave.

Even with the knights however, Urskoy himself said that he was duty bound to act to stop the sacrifices taking up in the altar. We hardly twisted his arm into going with us:
Blackout said:
But through your Magesight you see a burst of Dhar rise from the flames as the man's soul is consumed, joining the haze of corruption roiling around the Gudshöjd.

"A blood ritual," Urskoy grunts, his jaw clenched with anger. "I would wager my hammer that this was their plan all along, but our little incursion moved up their time table."

"Even were we not here on a rescue mission, we would be duty-bound by each of our respective gods to bring this abomination to an end."

"Agreed," the Templar rumbles. "But we will need a plan. We face twice as many warriors as we did before, fighting uphill, and I don't suppose you can repeat that trick from earlier."

"The gods act as they will, not by mortal demand."


-Decide how the Lightfangs and the White Wolves will assault the Gudshöjd.
-Write-ins and creativity are encouraged. Feel free to ask questions.
-Six hours Moratorium.

[] Focus on cutting through the Livgard. You will deal with the Shamans in due time.

[] Fanriel will use Smoke and Mirrors to teleport past the Livgard, and hunt the Shamans by herself.

[] Fanriel will join the knights and attempt to punch through to the Shamans, leaving the Men-at-arms and Swordmasters to deal with the Livgard.

[] Fanriel and the Crossbowmen will attempt to deal with the Shamans by firing ranged attacks over the heads of the Livgard, while the others engage them in combat.

[] Write-In.
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And here's something to note. This is the plan that won:
Blackout said:
[] Summon as many Lesser Ghur Elementals as you can without it becoming tiresome, order them to protect the lightfangs, Cast Ygethmor's Fiery Blizzard at the Livgard, and then join the knights and attempt to punch through to the Shamans, leaving the Men-at-arms and Swordmasters to deal with the Livgard.
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Everything that the white wolves and their men at arms did past the first wave we had our own forces deal with as well. Our Swordmasters fought back to back with the men at arms, while we personally went through the same charge the white wolves did. But that doesn't stop the priest from implying we used his dudes as canonfodder by having them take the same risks that our own forces were taking.
 
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You know what, fuck it. I'm actually rather angry right now.

[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

Not an ideal plan. Not a composed plan, but I've grown rather agitated after reading back how things went in Jaarpen. We lead Urskoy's men from the front at every role other then the initial assault, and Urskoy himself was clear that he wanted to take part in these sort of actions if it meant getting to stick it to Chaos, but now after we got the victory everyone wanted, we're getting shat on for not also making sure that the people volunteering for the most dangerous jobs, many of whom we also took part in, didn't take too severe casualties.

Still keeping my vote for my old plan though.

[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.
-[X] Finally if the Ulrican priest remains unconvinced point to him that he's welcome to question the men the elector count put under our command during the foraging mission, where we obtained valuable intelligence while our forces suffered no casualties, about our command skills and our valour, and that if even after that he remains he's unconvinced of either he's welcome to come with us to the count so that we can both argue our cases while the priest explains why his assessment of our capabilities should outweigh the count's own.
 
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[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

IDK, might not be optimal, but I kinda feel it.
 
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[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

Now you're speaking my language!
 
Yeah, I can get behind this. Better than a long-winded explanation of how it's totally not our fault, guys.

[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.
 
[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

This is not a logical argument, but this isn't a logical problem, it's an emotional one.

And growling and standing your ground is speaking fluent Urican.
 
Anyway current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Imperious on Nov 24, 2024 at 8:02 AM, finished with 129 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.
    [X] Write In: The Whole Deal
    -[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process.
    -[X] Mention, that Urskoy and his men volunteered out of their own free will for the counter-raid and for all the most dangerous jobs.
    -[X] Say about their role in the vanguard, for which they volunteered as well, during the landing and that they later went with us up the hill, since they were the best troops available at the time, that could be expected to fight well against Chaos sorcerers and their lackeys, that we expected to find there.
    -[X] Mention, that Urskoy agreed to put his men under our command for this job after our show of strength, which we can repeat, should it become necessary.
    -[X] Tell the priest of the entire journey, the fight with the Khornate berserkers, of the magnificent stand of the Men-At-Arms, that fought with the Lightfangs side by side, sharing all of our perils, tying down whatever massive enemy forces they could.
    -[X] The charge she and Urskoy's knights performed against the hordes of mutated Marauders to get to their shamans in order to stop foul rituals with human sacrifices present (Urskoy himself said, that it must be stopped for Ulric commands it).
    -[X] The sacrifice of the Knights, that they pinned down whatever Marauders they could, giving Fanriel a fighting chance to reach the shamans and stop the whole thing.
    -[X] The risks she took and that she succeeded at great peril to her soul, honouring their sacrifice.
    -[X] The saving and healing of the single knight, that survived.
    -[X] Urskoy and his men died as heroes while fighting against the Great Enemy and their deaths had meaning. We were there, we saw it and we shared in their perils.
    -[X]The Norscan leader was slain in single combat by our second before the whole army, while Jaarpen was reduced to a smoldering ruin, the Grim Eyes' power broken beyond repair, many slaves from Jaarpen were saved and brought back home.
    -[X] Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission.
    -[X] Conclude, that we need the priest and his men, for their faithful are going to battle the Great Enemy once more and will require their aid. Their lawful liege instructed them to provide it under our leadership, for is he not their temporal ruler and commander?
    [X] Write In: The Whole Deal
    [X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.
    -[X] Finally if the Ulrican priest remains unconvinced point to him that he's welcome to question the men the elector count put under our command during the foraging mission, where we obtained valuable intelligence while our forces suffered no casualties, about our command skills and our valour, and that if even after that he remains he's unconvinced of either he's welcome to come with us to the count so that we can both argue our cases while the priest explains why his assessment of our capabilities should outweigh the count's own.
    [X] Write In: Domesticating the wolf
    -[X] Affirm that he's right to be angry and apologize profusely... for being too busy to pay proper respect to the sacrifice/power/righteousness of the Knights of the White Wolf.
    -[X] Give a rundown on Jaarpen. Focus on the following facts:
    -[X] Swear on the gods (maybe even Ulric?) that this is all true.
    -[X] Beat your breast and swear on the gods that you would've gladly sacrificed your own life for the cause that Urskoy died for (if true, o.w. say something true that's suitably momentous regarding sacrifice).
    -[X] Tell him you understand his concerns and will give full information on the plans for the assault. You will give any questions/concerns/input he has the utmost attention and consideration. You will offer to let him be your second in this assault.
    -[X] Tell him again you understand his concerns on the safety of the Ulricans. You had wanted to rely on the proven qualities of the Ulricans again, but their safety came first. The Knights of White Wolf have taken grievous losses and even the followers of Ulric must take into account self preservation.
    -[X] Say something on the lines of: You do whatever it is you and Ulric will, but my gods demand that I act. I will muster the elven troops and any other available troops (can we also claim to be able to mobilize the butchers or other ogres?) and lead their march on this atrocity. Say something like unless there's more to discuss, I need to rest/plan/make peace with my gods/pray then turn and walk away/duck back into your tent.
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A bit surprised at how the angry vote has pulled up ahead.
 
Eh, fuck it.
[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.
 
[x] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.
 
You have a point. But since I expect the usual foot-in-the-mouth diplomacy, I will go for the more rational version of that plan:

[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.
 
[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.
 
Netos said:
You have a point. But since I expect the usual foot-in-the-mouth diplomacy, I will go for the more rational version of that plan:

[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.
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Eh, way to wordy. I don't expect he'll just stand there and listen through the whole thing.
 
Going to put two approval votes essentially:

[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

[X] Give a tactical assessment of the difficulties involved in mounting an assault on Jaarpen. The defenses, the terrain, the dangers faced by the first wave, demonstrating your Martial accumen in the process. Point out then that even with those dangers, and that despite that as volunters the White Wolves didn't have to even be on this mission at all, Urskoy insisted that he and his men act as the vanguard, despite the extremely dangerous nature of the role, speaking well of their bravery both during the initial assault and during the entire mission. Point out to the dangers the Lightfangs and Fanriel themselves faced during the battle. Many of the Lightfangs fought back to back with the Ulrican men at arms, while your own second killed the leader of the Grim Eyes in single combat. Note that you yourself went deep into the enemy lines in order to rescue the captives and provided healing to the surviving knight when you saw him. Be clear that the White Wolves' casualties were by no means caused by you thinking lightly of their lives, but out of them bravely taking the most dangerous role in an already dangerous mission, in the process enabling the rescue of captives and the breaking of the Grim Eyes as a power for ages to come, ensuring that the White Wolves' lives were not lost in vain.

Either works for me. The more aggressive version is higher risk higher reward. It does carry the risk of us losing the duel, but the aggressive nature might appeal to an Ulrican, and on the chance that we do win it at least shuts the issue down and ensures the Ulricans follow us. Most likely we either enter into the forest with the Ulricans working under our command or with us not in command at all, with little in between.

The less aggressive approach doesn't risk us losing command due to losing a duel, but the Ulricans might still end up storming off if we fail to convince them. The less aggressive nature of it might also not jive quite as well with Ulrican sensibilities.

Either way, I'm not voting for any plan that has us apologizing for not going to the funerals and trying to make up for it by spending even more time on healing their knight. Enough is enough.
 
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Fair enough. I still favor the less aggressive approach but either one or the other will do.

On the side, I am thinking that when we're going back to Erengrad for Dorial we should check on the lone survivor of the Knights of the White Wolf. Possibly, with Dorial by our side.
Why? you might ask. For the cult of Ulric? No. For someone else? No. For ourselves. For closure. To do the right thing, so to speak. And because if the man does not hate us or is too broken, there is a chance we can actually heal him, for instance by re-breaking a badly-recomposed fracture and subjecting it to Regrowth.
 
Netos said:
Fair enough. I still favor the less aggressive approach but either one or the other will do.

On the side, I am thinking that when we're going back to Erengrad for Dorial we should check on the lone survivor of the Knights of the White Wolf. Possibly, with Dorial by our side.
Why? you might ask. For the cult of Ulric? No. For someone else? No. For ourselves. For closure. To do the right thing, so to speak. And because if the man does not hate us or is too broken, there is a chance we can actually heal him, for instance by re-breaking a badly-recomposed fracture and subjecting it to Regrowth.
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We don't actually know Regrowth. The priestess of Isha probably does, but the cult of Isha doesn't treat humans.

Also half of our actions are already accounted for by teaching the alchemist chemistry. It's going to be a tough fit to get something like that in our schedule.
 
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[X] Imperious' wall of text.
Gets all the same points as the other plan while not conceding to the asshole priest who is using the deaths of noble knights as a cheap political move and incorporates relevant tactical information to the mission he wants to take from us.

Alternatively: Plan fuck it we Ball.

[X] Be clear with the priest that you will not stand for his slander against yourself. Urskoy volunteered himself and his men to the most dangerous role in the initial assault and he and his men proved their valor once again when the knights charged with you to stop the sacrifices being made by his shamans while the men at arms stayed to protect your rear alongside your swordmasters. The mission was a success with the Grim Eyes shamans dead, their Jarl dead and their tribe wiped out and you personally acted to save the life of the surviving knight you could. If the priest is going to call for your dismissal over the blood price paid by the people who valiantly volunteered for all of the most dangerous roles, many of whom you and the Lightfangs took part in as well, in a victorious battle against Chaos then he should at least not shame the memory of the courage displayed by Urskoy and his men by slinking away to complain to the count but face you in a duel for it or otherwise get in line.

My only additional suggestion would be to offer a prayer to Eldrazor before and after the duel if he accepts.
 
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Imperious said:
Fair on the knights, but the priest was also complaining about the men at arms, and the men at arms apparently took much of their damage in the initial wave.
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No, they "took the worst of the fighting" comapred to the knights in the landing, but didn't take significant casualties until the fight against the Nurglite Livgard.
 
Anyway thinking about the prospect of a fight, we probably have the equipment advantage. The guy apparently has runic armor and that unique pelt of his, but it's hard to imagine them more then matching the Silverine Plate. In terms of weaponry we appear to have the edge since we didn't notice any enchantment on his two axes.

In terms of raw prowess stat we might have a slight edge. We have prowess 30, Urskoy had prowess 22. In order to have prowess 30 the guy would need to be the Kurt Helborg of his time. He's probably not quite there, but given that he's in command of a group of inner circle knights he's probably not too far off, probably having prowess in the high twenties.

His ability to engage in miracles is the big question. The guy is a high ranking warrior priest, and is pretty much guaranteed to be able to cast Ulrican miracles, so it's an open question as to whether his miracles would be enough to outweigh our castings. If somebody can provide a list of Ulrican miracles that would be great.

Ironically in that case we might actually have a pretty decent counter to them in the tier 1 Ghur spell Boar's Hide, which protects from cold as well as makes us more durable.

Assuming we have some ground rule about no miracles and no spells then I'd give us a moderate advantage, mostly due to us having better equipment but almost identical prowess scores. If miracles and castings are allowed then it becomes more murky.
 
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