Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
IamtooSleepy
I came here to be an ant
[x] Truth and Reconciliation
[x] Subordination of the Brotherhood of Nod
[x] Tiberium Control Network
[x] Subordination of the Brotherhood of Nod
[x] Tiberium Control Network
- Location
- MSC
[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Which is why it simply does not happen unless we are spending a "pick" to make it happen, at which point we're basically prevailing upon Kane himself to lend his support to the project.
Experience from human history suggests that whenever we make this decision, we end up regretting it.
First, because setting the precedent that the convenience of the atrocity-perpetrators entirely overrides the experiences of the victims makes it more likely that future atrocities will be committed by future leaders of the nation.
Second, because the descendants of the victims will KNOW they were ignored and will tend to be more cynical about the broader national project, seeing as how this project is essentially built on their grandparents' bones and metaphorically built on never mentioning how those grandparents died.
Third, because the descendants of the perpetrators will be more free to construct false narratives in which their atrocities were justified or never happened, enabling the resurrection of the toxic ideological framework within which the atrocities were made possible.
An example of this can be found with the failure of Reconstruction in the American South after the American Civil War, where all three elements are present. The first is present in that the ease with which the nation could be convinced to stop acknowledging slavery as a terrible evil did indeed make it much easier for future racially motivated evil policies to flourish. The second is present in that black Americans have indeed tended towards a greater degree of cynical detachment from American politics because they know that they were sold out to the segregationists by the federal government after the Compromise of 1876. And the third in the rise of the "Lost Cause" narrative and its role in nearly every subsequent move to make bad things happen in the entire history of American race relations since that time.
...
Personally, I think we need truth and reconciliation unless we want GDI-Nod relations in the post-TCN world to be built on a foundation broadly similar to those of, say, race relations in the United States. And we really, really don't want that, or shouldn't.
(EDIT: The main difference here is that there isn't an unambiguous one-directional line of atrocities committed by one group against the other and effectively never the other way around. But since people are quite capable of simultaneously magnifying any crime committed against themselves and minimizing any crime they committed against others, this doesn't really change the underlying point of "the relations are bad.")
In all fairness, this is true.I mean, if Carter didn't keep throwing tantrums he would have gotten to the point sooner.
On the other hand, if Kane wanted to some day be able to deal with a guy like Carter without that guy predictably and inevitably throwing tantrums, then Kane should have done a lot of things very differently in the years 1995-2066. Sometimes your tiberium-mutated chickens come home to roost.
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[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Nod's technology isn't going to help us much with stuff like "building starships."
And what do you mean by that?
In fairness, speaking as one of the Truth and Reconciliation/Technology voters, I feel this hope that Truth and Reconciliation will hopefully allow us to coexist with Nod without constant internal human civil war.
- Location
- Middle Europe
My take on Truth and Reconciliation is that it isn't meant to on its own make NOD or GDI forget/forgive difficult past.
GDI has already started making inroads with Nod, with distribution of easy food sources, kept bargains on Mekka, incorporating yellow zoners into its politics.
Truth and Reconciliation is just making another big step on that road, with blessing from Kane. Let the Tiberium wars be in the past and let people move onto the future.
Fact that this future will incentive people to move toward areas with more opportunities and standard of living (aka GDI) is just a bonus.
All future Nod terrorism can be decrayed as acting against Kane's word and dealt with witout angering rest of the nod too much.
In few decades, Nod will be in decline, confined to earth, with no serious way to harm GDI even if they wanted to.
All that while their prophets last words was message of unity of humanity.
We don't need to force Nod submission now. Time and standard of living will do that for us.
GDI has already started making inroads with Nod, with distribution of easy food sources, kept bargains on Mekka, incorporating yellow zoners into its politics.
Truth and Reconciliation is just making another big step on that road, with blessing from Kane. Let the Tiberium wars be in the past and let people move onto the future.
Fact that this future will incentive people to move toward areas with more opportunities and standard of living (aka GDI) is just a bonus.
All future Nod terrorism can be decrayed as acting against Kane's word and dealt with witout angering rest of the nod too much.
In few decades, Nod will be in decline, confined to earth, with no serious way to harm GDI even if they wanted to.
All that while their prophets last words was message of unity of humanity.
We don't need to force Nod submission now. Time and standard of living will do that for us.
I have to point out that the Tech Exchange is for Tacitus tech. Aka Bentusaari tech. Not Nod tech.
We won't get the chance for Bentusaari tech even if we absorb Nod.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My perspective is unconventional in that I believe Nod sticking around in an indipendent form is much more interesting, with T&R or without. With it, we are gonna have a sorta-peer block with which we need to deal with, and without we get more wars in the future. I dont see the downside to either.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
A reminder that the "anti-civil wars" choice is moreso Truth & Reconciliation than Subordination.
Truth & Reconciliation is meant as a focus on our efforts to start acknowledging the wrongs that both groups have done to each other, in full and not in part, and then bridge that gap.
Subordination is "make us one political entity for the most part".
If T&R is taken but Subordination is not, my read, and @Ithillid can correct me on this, is that likely in the longer-term, Nod will quietly go off to some other part of the galaxy to live. Things might not be perfectly buddy-buddy, but it will be much more like a buddy cop movie or, at worst, an Odd Couple dynamic or the like, rather than a true Cold War.
Truth & Reconciliation is meant as a focus on our efforts to start acknowledging the wrongs that both groups have done to each other, in full and not in part, and then bridge that gap.
Subordination is "make us one political entity for the most part".
If T&R is taken but Subordination is not, my read, and @Ithillid can correct me on this, is that likely in the longer-term, Nod will quietly go off to some other part of the galaxy to live. Things might not be perfectly buddy-buddy, but it will be much more like a buddy cop movie or, at worst, an Odd Couple dynamic or the like, rather than a true Cold War.
[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
I think people are making huge assumptions with saying that we're going to have a civil war if nod isn't suborned. If we just eat the organization without TNR the we have a bunch of people we expect to follow orders without actually addressing their concerns. And the idea that if nod exists then they will start some shit seems like weird neocon thinking to produce an eternal enemy without understanding why they're our enemy to begin with. We can do diplomacy, let's just eliminate the need for conflict instead of just shoving everyone into one house and saying we're unified.
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
I think people are making huge assumptions with saying that we're going to have a civil war if nod isn't suborned. If we just eat the organization without TNR the we have a bunch of people we expect to follow orders without actually addressing their concerns. And the idea that if nod exists then they will start some shit seems like weird neocon thinking to produce an eternal enemy without understanding why they're our enemy to begin with. We can do diplomacy, let's just eliminate the need for conflict instead of just shoving everyone into one house and saying we're unified.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
This is an entirely valid way to think of it - each option is a choice for something to focus on in the epilogues, and also a choice for what the sequelquest GDI is going to look like.
It's up in the air how much of a single polity Humanity will be without Subordination - I suspect that the majority of Nod factions will be part of whatever Overgovernment we see at the beginning of the sequelquest, but the centralized power of said state may be lessened, perhaps considerably. I could see it going one of several ways.
However, without the Truth & Reconciliation option, I consider it likely that there would still be hardliner groups capable of causing significant trouble throughout the sequelquest, especially if they get STG backing.
I want both tech and unity equally so I won't bother to vote either way
I think that securing Bentusaari tech is a major boon for humanity as a whole.
We're setting yet another precedent for cooperation with Nod. Once humanity is introduced to the wider galaxy, the pirates, the slavers, the Citadel, there will be immense pressure on both groups to cooperate once again.
We're setting yet another precedent for cooperation with Nod. Once humanity is introduced to the wider galaxy, the pirates, the slavers, the Citadel, there will be immense pressure on both groups to cooperate once again.
Such thing can chane a species policy enought to make so Three Bodies Problem of Dark Forest stance is actual fact.
As in situation where firing photids/dimensional strikes at every star suspected of being able to harbor inteligent life is standard procedure.
So I wonder where we from start going to get three picks here?
Or how well we did in game, finishing some grand milestone project gave us each a leverage over Kane and another point?
Like if we got one more grand project would we get four Key items? Less if we got bad luck during game/Regency War?
So while this is for Bentusari Tech from Kane how will Scrin Tech Gatcha be handled in epilogue/timeskip?
We were still rolling for Scrin Techs and we had on horizon mission to Scrin Outpost to reset depletion of Scrin salvage for tech. And werent there somebody in thread that for their help to QM got an option to reroll, one single thing and it was expected it would be used to reroll Scrin Tech numbers dice if it run out?
Like wouldnt that mean that in time to second quest, we would most likely research, develop and deploy all of Scrin Tech from Gatcha list we had?
I dont think we need to subordinate Nod to win them over.
We already were likely to get some Warlords with our current pace of effort.
If we get T&R then it combined with our previous work plus fact there wouldnt be that much of stigma with Kane permision (and fact with Kane getting the fuck out of Earth Nod will quickly fracture), then over timeskip we would get pretty much everyone under our rule.
Because without Tiberium to fight GDI will dominate Nod even harder then it already does, while people will likely to be much more eager to run to us when Tiberium isnt everywhere to make such escape much harder.
Hell it isnt like in canon ME Earth nations are actualy fully united into one nation as SA.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's not so much about the tech gatcha for me as it is that the road taken towards a goal shapes the results of reaching that goal. And the GDI I see in that room with Kane right now is not one I want forcing NOD under their control in any way.
[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Subordination of the Brotherhood of Nod
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
[X] Subordination of the Brotherhood of Nod
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's more than fair. GDI is a very flawed government.
Tabascoheath
Unkempt, Evil-eyed Charlatan, and Pseudo-Mystic
- Location
- Your Nearest Orbital Habitat
[X] Tiberium Control Network Effect
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation
[X] Technology Exchange
[X] Truth and Reconciliation