Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
Rather, non-combat ships do not require pilots, if I remember correctly. Our Fleet Support Ships (jump-capable) do not "use pilots", but our Interplanetary Cruisers and System Defence Destroyers did.
So, yeah, we could do something sorta like that! There's a rule for "breakaway hulls", which does sorta what you're thinking of in that the ship is designed to split in half:
I will note that this is only really cost effective if the ship is going to have a lot of weight it can leave behind, which means high thrust maneuver drives, cargo, or weapons. Otherwise, we might as well just make the whole thing jump capable. For a defensive station built out of a planetoid, though, it's very appealing and I like this idea a lot. Also, a jump lifeboat does require a jump pilot, so it's not great for spammable things like minelayers or tiny defence boats; we should try and keep the number of jump lifeboats to a minimum.
If we do make lifeboats, we can possibly cut it down pretty far. If you hot-bunk 3 shifts in a two-bed berth, you can squeeze six people in. It'll suck, but the alternative is risking dying in a low berth. We might also be able to get by without a fusion plant, and instead use a battery charged by the station's powerplant for the jump drive and solar panels for life support, and maneuvering can be done by a solar sail.
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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- Misery!
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- She/Her
[X] OPLAN: Eris Maul
-[X] Write-in: Reinforce Sector 01-02 at highest possible speed, including the establishment of a forward operating base and defensive formations, including mines.
-[X] Write-in: Use all available signals intelligence from the Deep Hope raid and these new stealth contacts to draw up a threat profile, to be distributed to all HSWS personnel, civilian spacers, and allied governments.
-[X] Write-in: Deploy what remains of the Expeditionary Force to the last known location of Task Force Gebara. All atomic-arms-capable craft are to be authorized full liberty of ordnance and their crews notified that the Nightingale Protocol is once again in effect for the duration of this crisis. No other aspect of the Articles are to be rescinded.
-[X] Coordinate a full defense of our northern border with all current allies, especially Xyri and Cassalon. If either polity wish to volunteer any jump-capable combat craft to the mission, they would be welcome.
-[X] Notify all neutral non-allied polities, including Garda-Villis and Hermosa, of this new threat-they may have useful information to share. If there is suspicion they may be involved, hold details back to preserve balance of security.
-[X] All knowledge of the loss of Vice-Marshal Gebara and their forces is to be concealed from Natoko and Inthe. Should our diplomats, as reported, still be on those worlds, they are to be retrieved by FLF troops, including combat action if necessary.
-[X] If positive evidence of the involvement of Natoko and Inthe along with their governments in this crisis is discovered, all contact with them is to be cut off.
FLASH OVERRIDE MESSAGE-EMERGENCY MILITARY TRAFFIC-ENCRYPTED
Source: HSWS Central Command Base Internal File Transfer Service.
To: Gen. Qiu Meers, HSWS Chief of Staff, Home Armed Forces Primary Command Council-EYES ONLY
From: Novohal, L. , Maj., Multispectrum Warfare Office Command Section-EYES ONLY.
General Meers, sir.
Please find included in this brief my office's proposal for a rescue operation to retrieve Task Force Gebara and the Vice-Marshal.
Once deployed, the duty of this relief force is simple: go find Task Force Gebara. If they're dead, burn the people who did it down to ash. Then come home.
I know authorizing strategic atomics is a risk. But we don't know what's out there, and how hard we'll have to hit it before it dies. All the same procedures will apply-the keys will still have to turn. But the baseline authorization will be there, in the hands of the frontline troops and not the PCC.
I hope that isn't a mistake. If it is, I accept full responsibility.
For the People and Her Daughters.
Lenore Novohal, Major, HSWS Multispectrum Warfare Office, 44th PFSq, Res.
-[X] Write-in: Reinforce Sector 01-02 at highest possible speed, including the establishment of a forward operating base and defensive formations, including mines.
-[X] Write-in: Use all available signals intelligence from the Deep Hope raid and these new stealth contacts to draw up a threat profile, to be distributed to all HSWS personnel, civilian spacers, and allied governments.
-[X] Write-in: Deploy what remains of the Expeditionary Force to the last known location of Task Force Gebara. All atomic-arms-capable craft are to be authorized full liberty of ordnance and their crews notified that the Nightingale Protocol is once again in effect for the duration of this crisis. No other aspect of the Articles are to be rescinded.
-[X] Coordinate a full defense of our northern border with all current allies, especially Xyri and Cassalon. If either polity wish to volunteer any jump-capable combat craft to the mission, they would be welcome.
-[X] Notify all neutral non-allied polities, including Garda-Villis and Hermosa, of this new threat-they may have useful information to share. If there is suspicion they may be involved, hold details back to preserve balance of security.
-[X] All knowledge of the loss of Vice-Marshal Gebara and their forces is to be concealed from Natoko and Inthe. Should our diplomats, as reported, still be on those worlds, they are to be retrieved by FLF troops, including combat action if necessary.
-[X] If positive evidence of the involvement of Natoko and Inthe along with their governments in this crisis is discovered, all contact with them is to be cut off.
FLASH OVERRIDE MESSAGE-EMERGENCY MILITARY TRAFFIC-ENCRYPTED
Source: HSWS Central Command Base Internal File Transfer Service.
To: Gen. Qiu Meers, HSWS Chief of Staff, Home Armed Forces Primary Command Council-EYES ONLY
From: Novohal, L. , Maj., Multispectrum Warfare Office Command Section-EYES ONLY.
General Meers, sir.
Please find included in this brief my office's proposal for a rescue operation to retrieve Task Force Gebara and the Vice-Marshal.
Once deployed, the duty of this relief force is simple: go find Task Force Gebara. If they're dead, burn the people who did it down to ash. Then come home.
I know authorizing strategic atomics is a risk. But we don't know what's out there, and how hard we'll have to hit it before it dies. All the same procedures will apply-the keys will still have to turn. But the baseline authorization will be there, in the hands of the frontline troops and not the PCC.
I hope that isn't a mistake. If it is, I accept full responsibility.
For the People and Her Daughters.
Lenore Novohal, Major, HSWS Multispectrum Warfare Office, 44th PFSq, Res.
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It looks like we don't have tools, but maybe we actually do.
[x] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
-[x] If we haven't mined Deep Hope and our new outpost, mine them.
-[x] Hire both our "domestic" Aslan military companies, and two more Aslan ships from Aslan space (200MCr x4 = 800MCr)
-[x] send the military force to Sector '01, -02'.
--[x] Assign Vice-Admiral Sophea Omarov as an overall commander of forces at '01, -02' and northern effort.
--[x] Assign two CFAs (one of Home fleet, 1 of Reserve fleet), 4 ICIIIs for reserve fleet and two FFEs of Reserve Fleet.
--[x] Assign our two Aslan ships to this new fleet too. Disperse part (no more than half of) of Aslan infantry as marines to our ships.
--[x] Assign FFS and couriers to the fleet at Vice-Admiral Omarov discretion.
-[x] order Vice-Adniral Omarov to send the Aslan ships as scouts to the Northern systems (propose their captains to assign to them our specialists for the duration of the mission, if they require them). Add to them courier(s) and FFS, if necessary.
--[x] Aslan ships and our support vessels should move to '00 -02'. From there Aslan should Jump to Menord and check the system (with their probably superior sensors) for our missing ships, and for stealth ships (provide them all newest info on the signatures of the stealth ships). Do not disclose to locals that they are searching for the specific ships or are hired by Home's government. If our ships are there, observe them. One Aslan ship should then Jump back to '01, -02' point and then send the courier back to Vice-Admiral. Other ship should attempt to contact our ships in Menorb, if it looks possible.
--[x] Authorize Aslan ships to use their particle beams, if necessary (such as self-defence).
--[x] Vice-Admiral is authorized to attempt to contact or resque our ships, depending on the intelligence gathered (that is, if she feels that it is feasible, then yes, if no, inform us and wait for further orders).
--[x] If our ships are not in Menorb, our Aslan are to jump back to '01, -02', then to Inthe; then, if our ships aren't there either, to Natoko. Keep informing Vice-Admiral of any new developments (stealth ships and so on) by courier. Vice-Admiral could change this pattern, if she feels that it is warranted. Vice-Amiral is authorized to negotiate for release of our rews or ships, if necessary (but should obviously be extremely careful and not to trust the Stealthy People with her safety)
-[x] CFA from Cassalon system should be temporarily assigned to Home fleet, as should be 2 new Aslan ships from Aslan space.
[x] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
-[x] If we haven't mined Deep Hope and our new outpost, mine them.
-[x] Hire both our "domestic" Aslan military companies, and two more Aslan ships from Aslan space (200MCr x4 = 800MCr)
-[x] send the military force to Sector '01, -02'.
--[x] Assign Vice-Admiral Sophea Omarov as an overall commander of forces at '01, -02' and northern effort.
--[x] Assign two CFAs (one of Home fleet, 1 of Reserve fleet), 4 ICIIIs for reserve fleet and two FFEs of Reserve Fleet.
--[x] Assign our two Aslan ships to this new fleet too. Disperse part (no more than half of) of Aslan infantry as marines to our ships.
--[x] Assign FFS and couriers to the fleet at Vice-Admiral Omarov discretion.
-[x] order Vice-Adniral Omarov to send the Aslan ships as scouts to the Northern systems (propose their captains to assign to them our specialists for the duration of the mission, if they require them). Add to them courier(s) and FFS, if necessary.
--[x] Aslan ships and our support vessels should move to '00 -02'. From there Aslan should Jump to Menord and check the system (with their probably superior sensors) for our missing ships, and for stealth ships (provide them all newest info on the signatures of the stealth ships). Do not disclose to locals that they are searching for the specific ships or are hired by Home's government. If our ships are there, observe them. One Aslan ship should then Jump back to '01, -02' point and then send the courier back to Vice-Admiral. Other ship should attempt to contact our ships in Menorb, if it looks possible.
--[x] Authorize Aslan ships to use their particle beams, if necessary (such as self-defence).
--[x] Vice-Admiral is authorized to attempt to contact or resque our ships, depending on the intelligence gathered (that is, if she feels that it is feasible, then yes, if no, inform us and wait for further orders).
--[x] If our ships are not in Menorb, our Aslan are to jump back to '01, -02', then to Inthe; then, if our ships aren't there either, to Natoko. Keep informing Vice-Admiral of any new developments (stealth ships and so on) by courier. Vice-Admiral could change this pattern, if she feels that it is warranted. Vice-Amiral is authorized to negotiate for release of our rews or ships, if necessary (but should obviously be extremely careful and not to trust the Stealthy People with her safety)
-[x] CFA from Cassalon system should be temporarily assigned to Home fleet, as should be 2 new Aslan ships from Aslan space.
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Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
- Location
- Misery!
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Gah, I keep forgetting we have that newfangled officer system... @4WheelSword should I go back and edit??
My understanding is that we are their jump-capable combat craft...
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
What are we reinforcing with? And currently the expeditionary force is one ICfIII, I'm not sure that's enough.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cassalon had no jump capable combat ships of their own when we integrated their forces and the system bound ones were presumably gotten rid of due to their age (and for the sanity of the QM). Xyri does still have a system bound fleet answering to the dictatorship, but I don't believe any of them are jump capable.
I don't believe informing Garda-Villas and Hermosa are at all a good idea here. Garda-Villas continues to be a massive sleeping behemoth that does not care for us and I see no value in giving them or Hermosa the knowledge that we are currently distracted by matters to the north. We're directly between them and any possible incursions from these stealth raiders after all. The only ones we should be talking to about this threat are the Aslan and Noctocole, the latter of which we've sent a ad-hoc diplomatic mission to but still haven't heard back from.
Though speaking of the Aslan, reminder that we can hire ships from them for 200MCr a year if we really need to increase our force strength right now as has been added to Josiah's plan.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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- It/She/They
I'm not gonna update today, and this time not for health reasons! I think this update warrants more discussion and votes, so please, use the next 24 hours to vote if you haven't, or draw up a plan if that appeals.
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
Whoever owned those stealth ships are a cause for concern for us, so we best be careful should we detect them again.
Whoever owned those stealth ships are a cause for concern for us, so we best be careful should we detect them again.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Gotta say, gradually building diplomatic relations or no, telling Hermosa "hey our fleet is gonna be super busy on this other distant border for a while" seems like just asking for trouble.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
I have a question about dispersing aslan mercs aboard our ships. Are they intended to replace the FLF complements already aboard?
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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That's not the idea here-it's literally just "hey, we've been attacked, have you ever seen this before". We don't need to tell them, for instance, that we're sending a fleet-we can act like Deep Hope is the only major contact.
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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I was thinking three of our remaining CFAs, the Scout Flotilla, and a trio of FFEs for force protection. It will mean drawdowns of fleet strength elsewhere, but it seems worth it.
Yes, partially. Less FLF marines, more Aslan mercs in their place. So that between 25% and 50% of marine complement would be mercs instead.
And about using Aslan as scouts:
- Their ships are using superior tech, and maybe would be able yo detect Stealthy Ships in time
- They are distinctly not Home's ships, so maybe the Stealthy People would not connect them with us, at least initially
- If Stealthy ships practice boarding actions, they are for a surprise
- It's possible that Aslan would have issues with this mission because of their understanding of what's honourable and what is not. But Vice-Admiral Omarov specifically provided authority and flexibility, so she can change the mission so it would fit Aslan more.
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- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
two more points:
1. I'll add the authorization for Aslan to use their particle beams - if I remember correctly, those are a large part of their weapon suite. So maybe they would need them for self-defence.
I hope no one would object to this?
2. Note to self - explore the following ship designs in future: interstellar minelayer (combat ship, that can drop mines in the enemy systems), dedicated minehunter (stealthy, probably), and fast boarding ship, with chemical rocket for more speed (like the Stealthy ship in Deep Hope), and with both our FLF and the Aslan mercs.
(now that I think of it, stealth could be a good anti-mine measure too. Unfortunate. Though we do control our mines actively, maybe we would be able to shoot their weapons at the enemy ships manually)
1. I'll add the authorization for Aslan to use their particle beams - if I remember correctly, those are a large part of their weapon suite. So maybe they would need them for self-defence.
I hope no one would object to this?
2. Note to self - explore the following ship designs in future: interstellar minelayer (combat ship, that can drop mines in the enemy systems), dedicated minehunter (stealthy, probably), and fast boarding ship, with chemical rocket for more speed (like the Stealthy ship in Deep Hope), and with both our FLF and the Aslan mercs.
(now that I think of it, stealth could be a good anti-mine measure too. Unfortunate. Though we do control our mines actively, maybe we would be able to shoot their weapons at the enemy ships manually)
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I don't see a particular reason to replace our FLF contingent with Aslan; they can board from their own ships IMHO.
I mean, the idea that if the Stealthy People would board our ships, then they'll meet not just FLF, but also Aslan. I am under impression that Aslan both have superior weapons than ours, and are very capable in close combat (large and strong and have scary combat claws and so on).
Admittedly, maybe the enemy is not that into boarding - but they did board Deep Hope station and overcame it handily.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
TBF, Deep Hope was a civilian station that serviced military ships - they didn't have a marine contingent on board.
I also think this is a bit of a non-issue. A civilian station was boarded under the guise of requesting humanitarian aid, and didn't resist because compliance was likely to produce a better outcome until they started rigging the station to blow and by then it was too late. If someone tries to board a cruiser, they're going to have to silence all the PD guns first, and if they somehow manage to do that without killing everyone aboard first, they then need to board a ship with an armed and ready crew expecting to fight for their lives.
I also think we're overstating the stealth aspect. We've seen the stealth do three things:
Here's my attempt at a modification of Niff's plan. It's playing things a bit closer to our chest, but otherwise very similar. I've added elements of Josiah's plan, but also cut a few that I think will delay our response too much (e.g., getting new ships from the Aslan for this mission).
[X] Plan: Hybrid
-[X] Reinforce Sector 01-02 with a "tripwire" courier ready to jump as soon as a visitor is spotted and an extensive minefield laid by our auxiliary minelayer. Pause reconstruction efforts in Deep Hope and evacuate non-essential personnel.
-[x] Reassign VAdm. Amir Adabayo as an overall commander of northern forces (at '01, -02', Deep Hope, and the relief expedition). Replace Adabayo with VAdm. Omarov in the Scouting Flotilla.
-[X] Inquire of neutral non-allied polities, including Garda-Villis and Hermosa, if they have encountered similar ships in the past. Do not disclose specific details of the craft, that we are engaged in conflict, or that our ships are being deployed northwards.
-[X] Use all available intelligence to draw up a threat profile, to be distributed to all HSWS personnel.
-[X] All knowledge of the loss of Vice-Marshal Gebara and their forces is to be concealed from foreign powers.
-[X] If positive evidence of the involvement of Natoko and Inthe along with their governments in this crisis is discovered, the diplomats are to be covertly replaced by HIC personnel and contact is to be continued as normal to avoid alerting them to our knowledge of their involvement.
-[X] Deploy what remains of the Expeditionary Force to the last known location of Task Force Gebara. All atomic-arms-capable craft are to be authorized full liberty of ordnance and their crews notified that the Nightingale Protocol is once again in effect for the duration of this crisis. No other aspect of the Articles are to be rescinded.
-[X] Hire both our "domestic" Aslan military companies to reinforce the Expeditionary Force. Also assign combat-ready units of the Reserve Fleet, the CFA in orbit over Cassalon, and FSS, scouts, and couriers at VAdm. Adabayo's discretion.
-[X] Begin negotiations to hire more Aslan mercenaries if follow-up forces are needed.
-[X] Transfer an IC from Heimdall to Cassalon.
-[X] Investigation of Menorb is at VAdm. Adabayo's discretion. If the fleet is not found in Menorb, VAdm. Adabayo is authorized to continue the search out from there after informing HSWS central command by courier. Vice-Amiral is authorized to negotiate for release of our crews or ships, if necessary (but should obviously be extremely careful and not trust the Stealthy People with her safety).
I also think we're overstating the stealth aspect. We've seen the stealth do three things:
- Make a civilian mining station unable to determine the precise size of an approaching ship, beyond "big"
- Prevent easy target locks on an evading target at extreme range
- Make detection not-obvious at extreme ranges, requiring after-the-fact analysis
Here's my attempt at a modification of Niff's plan. It's playing things a bit closer to our chest, but otherwise very similar. I've added elements of Josiah's plan, but also cut a few that I think will delay our response too much (e.g., getting new ships from the Aslan for this mission).
[X] Plan: Hybrid
-[X] Reinforce Sector 01-02 with a "tripwire" courier ready to jump as soon as a visitor is spotted and an extensive minefield laid by our auxiliary minelayer. Pause reconstruction efforts in Deep Hope and evacuate non-essential personnel.
-[x] Reassign VAdm. Amir Adabayo as an overall commander of northern forces (at '01, -02', Deep Hope, and the relief expedition). Replace Adabayo with VAdm. Omarov in the Scouting Flotilla.
-[X] Inquire of neutral non-allied polities, including Garda-Villis and Hermosa, if they have encountered similar ships in the past. Do not disclose specific details of the craft, that we are engaged in conflict, or that our ships are being deployed northwards.
-[X] Use all available intelligence to draw up a threat profile, to be distributed to all HSWS personnel.
-[X] All knowledge of the loss of Vice-Marshal Gebara and their forces is to be concealed from foreign powers.
-[X] If positive evidence of the involvement of Natoko and Inthe along with their governments in this crisis is discovered, the diplomats are to be covertly replaced by HIC personnel and contact is to be continued as normal to avoid alerting them to our knowledge of their involvement.
-[X] Deploy what remains of the Expeditionary Force to the last known location of Task Force Gebara. All atomic-arms-capable craft are to be authorized full liberty of ordnance and their crews notified that the Nightingale Protocol is once again in effect for the duration of this crisis. No other aspect of the Articles are to be rescinded.
-[X] Hire both our "domestic" Aslan military companies to reinforce the Expeditionary Force. Also assign combat-ready units of the Reserve Fleet, the CFA in orbit over Cassalon, and FSS, scouts, and couriers at VAdm. Adabayo's discretion.
-[X] Begin negotiations to hire more Aslan mercenaries if follow-up forces are needed.
-[X] Transfer an IC from Heimdall to Cassalon.
-[X] Investigation of Menorb is at VAdm. Adabayo's discretion. If the fleet is not found in Menorb, VAdm. Adabayo is authorized to continue the search out from there after informing HSWS central command by courier. Vice-Amiral is authorized to negotiate for release of our crews or ships, if necessary (but should obviously be extremely careful and not trust the Stealthy People with her safety).
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I hilariously misspoke here. It should be "not to trust the Stealthy People with her safety", obviously
