Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

DragonParadox said:

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VOTE
[X]Plan Marathon
-[X]Ask the Wardens to wait for an hour: +4m of Essence
-[X]After this, return to Sydney to secure the black mold first
-[X]Molly: Prepare meals for everyone in Last Station, then step over to Sanctuary and bring over additional forces to guard the prisoner and the trainee Wardens while you're away: 0m
-[X]Sophia: Put additional Sanctuary forces on alert for deployment to Last Station and elsewhere, then return to help Molly
-[X]STUNT: You get up and stretch, stiff muscles popping in relief."Security arrangements must be made. For the kids. And others." You confer briefly with Sophia, and she vanishes with a brief wave as you turn back to the wizards. "Its looking to be a long night, and even longer day after that. We're going to have to pace ourselves" You look at Lady Marge "When last did any of you eat anything warm?"


RATIONALE
Molly is currently below 50% of her Essence. Waiting for an hour will get her back to ~70% or 12/18 Essence.
And IC, it allows the wizards to get some food, rest and plan. And allows Molly to bring in Sanctuary forces to guard the kids and secure the prisoner, with the resources to do so while Molly is away.

Then the second priority is to secure the bioweapon prototype before it can be extracted by anyone for use.

Bringing people from Sanctuary is free.
Its taking people TO Sanctuary that costs 2m. So its cheaper for Molly to leave the kids in Last Station and bring 2-4x squads of Sanctuary special forces to guard them, and to keep the prisoner secured.

And Sanctuary knows how to hold magic users without allowing them to use their magic.

uju32 said:

And Sanctuary knows how to hold magic users without allowing them to use their magic.

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Several ways, though when it comes to strange sorcerers from the Beyond they go with the simplest, induce a coma. Can't cast spells if you're not conscious.

...and then they layer on all the wards they can think of anyway and get a spirit to guard the door.

Good night guys.

Does anyone else have the feeling that this warlock used to be salvageable but slowly got more and more corrupted until now? Which makes it all the more tragic?

uju32 said:

VOTE
[X]Plan Marathon
-[X]Ask the Wardens to wait for an hour: +4m of Essence
-[X]After this, return to Sydney to secure the black mold first
-[X]Molly: Prepare meals for everyone in Last Station, then step over to Sanctuary and bring over additional forces to guard the prisoner and the trainee Wardens while you're away: 0m
-[X]Sophia: Put additional Sanctuary forces on alert for deployment to Last Station and elsewhere, then return to help Molly
-[X]STUNT: You get up and stretch, stiff muscles popping in relief."Security arrangements must be made. For the kids. And others." You confer briefly with Sophia, and she vanishes with a brief wave as you turn back to the wizards. "Its looking to be a long night, and even longer day after that. We're going to have to pace ourselves" You look at Lady Marge "When last did any of you eat anything warm?"


RATIONALE
Molly is currently below 50% of her Essence. Waiting for an hour will get her back to ~70% or 12/18 Essence.
And IC, it allows the wizards to get some food, rest and plan. And allows Molly to bring in Sanctuary forces to guard the kids and secure the prisoner, with the resources to do so while Molly is away.

Then the second priority is to secure the bioweapon prototype before it can be extracted by anyone for use.

Bringing people from Sanctuary is free.
Its taking people TO Sanctuary that costs 2m. So its cheaper for Molly to leave the kids in Last Station and bring 2-4x squads of Sanctuary special forces to guard them, and to keep the prisoner secured.

And Sanctuary knows how to hold magic users without allowing them to use their magic.

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If its another scene couldn't we ask another question to get some more essence? In which case ask tiffany or anyone some magical secret for just a little bit more regen and I'll vote for your plan. Unless that wouldn't work for some reason.

Important reason to secure the plague - this guy was a dupe being played. There's almost certainly a contingency for his capture and we can't allow the plague to spread

DragonParadox said:

A Plague of Ignorance, a sickness which would claim all talents strong enough to 'matter' who still clung to the blindness of the Laws.

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Well that's awful. Not sure how we're supposed to stop it either, since they don't actually need this guy to do it. I suppose the best we've got is to dismantle the organization so completely they don't have time for stuff like this.

This particular thing is probably an Archive issue as well. We avoided third parties earlier, but if outsiders are allowed to successfully deploy mind plagues in reality there's no telling what else they could use them for. Not that this isn't horrific enough on its own, but we need terms that make it her problem to give Ivy the excuse to act.

If nothing else it's a threat to the continuation of the Archive itself, because it could potentially start trying to murder anyone who inherits it before they really get settled into their power.

uju32 said:

Another bioweapon. The Dresden Files has a history of magical bioweapons being used, by the Red Court, by the Denarians, and probably by other factions as well. There are very good reasons why Im very nervous about that portal to Sanctuary being open, especially after we magic nuked the Wicked City with a magic plague of our own.

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We're going to need to spend some time focusing on fortifying the door after this.

I want to use the smallest number of splendors for resource reasons, but something to do immunity to poison, disease, possession, and mind control at the entrance would be good.

There's also some potential in sovereign elemental sway to give Ancient Sorcery grade dominion over disease. At very least I'd hope it would allow us to detect attempts like this.

Personally I'm thinking of three, potentially with additional prodigies to go with it if needed.

1) A splendor built to use Mallko to curse the earth of his territory against things that prey on mortals. That doesn't cover everything, but it's thematic and could hurt a lot in regards to the current red infestation.

2) A blessing splendor that does important immunities for everyone on site.

3) A direct defensive boost item to make open force less effective.

If you read my post on this from earlier I favor a thousand foot long twenty foot wide demon-millipede whose body is one long mouth full of teeth as a doorstop. Have it "swallow" the portal and use some camo powers to fake being a cave.

Target it with immunity effects and trying to fire stuff like disease bombs through the portal becomes a lot harder.

uju32 said:

Bringing people from Sanctuary is free.
Its taking people TO Sanctuary that costs 2m. So its cheaper for Molly to leave the kids in Last Station and bring 2-4x squads of Sanctuary special forces to guard them, and to keep the prisoner secured.

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I thought the rule we got for this in Boston was that it was free to take people back where they came from but not to take them the other way.

firefrog600 said:

If its another scene couldn't we ask another question to get some more essence? In which case ask tiffany or anyone some magical secret for just a little bit more regen and I'll vote for your plan. Unless that wouldn't work for some reason.

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We've already asked the question for this scene; thats why we're on 8m instead of 6m.

We spend 1m on a Crown question, we get 2m back if it uncovers a supernatural secret.
Net gain is +1.
Not enough if we want to go back to Sydney, which if combat happens will burn at least 6m.

Yog said:

Important reason to secure the plague - this guy was a dupe being played. There's almost certainly a contingency for his capture and we can't allow the plague to spread

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Its not even that; Im reasonably sure the update pretty blatantly states the Ashraaf conspiracy have been building their own, just copying this guy's notes. But there is a non-zero chance that it could fall into the hands of other factions that also have an interest in weeding the human magical population.

And there's something under Sydney that is....worrying.

But we do not have enough Essence to go back to Sydney right now.
8/18m of Essence is not enough.
Not when we're risking a fight.

Rushing back to Sydney now will exhaust us of Essence if a fight happens.
Thats Bad.
We need to take the time to recover some Essence first.

BronzeTongue said:

We're going to need to spend some time focusing on fortifying the door after this.

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Im for closing it entirely ASAP.

We can get Molly personally immune with a splendor, but it doesnt protect the 5 billion people in Sanctuary itself.
A vampire with Obtenebration 6 + Daimonion 6 is going to have the speed and stealth to infiltrate with a payload, and will be immune to the weapons in play.

Daimonion 8 is the point where they throw a Demon Prince-equivalent at the portal, which will cripple every mortal in the area that can perceive them in thirty seconds or less, and at that point nothing short of Molly herself will matter.

I will have to remember to put up that reply about why all the military theorycrafting to prove superiority is making critical mistakes in assessing how the enemy can respond.

BronzeTongue said:

I thought the rule we got for this in Boston was that it was free to take people back where they came from but not to take them the other way.

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I wasnt around for most of Boston, so I cant say.

I have been working off the canon charm description where leaving Sanctuary is free, whether its Molly transporting 20x people at a time, or someone inside Sanctuary trekking to the border and leaving.
But entering Sanctuary costs 2m for up to 20x people at a time.

Current tally:


I strongly suggest that we do not go back to Sydney with only 8/18 Essence to try to secure Limos.
Take an hour to rest and recover Essence.

[X] uju32

uju32 said:

We've already asked the question for this scene; thats why we're on 8m instead of 6m.

We spend 1m on a Crown question, we get 2m back if it uncovers a supernatural secret.
Net gain is +1.
Not enough if we want to go back to Sydney, which if combat happens will burn at least 6m.

Its not even that; Im reasonably sure the update pretty blatantly states the Ashraaf conspiracy have been building their own, just copying this guy's notes. But there is a non-zero chance that it could fall into the hands of other factions that also have an interest in weeding the human magical population.

And there's something under Sydney that is....worrying.

But we do not have enough Essence to go back to Sydney right now.
8/18m of Essence is not enough.
Not when we're risking a fight.

Rushing back to Sydney now will exhaust us of Essence if a fight happens.
Thats Bad.
We need to take the time to recover some Essence first.

Im for closing it entirely ASAP.

We can get Molly personally immune with a splendor, but it doesnt protect the 5 billion people in Sanctuary itself.
A vampire with Obtenebration 6 + Daimonion 6 is going to have the speed and stealth to infiltrate with a payload, and will be immune to the weapons in play.

Daimonion 8 is the point where they throw a Demon Prince-equivalent at the portal, which will cripple every mortal in the area that can perceive them in thirty seconds or less, and at that point nothing short of Molly herself will matter.

I will have to remember to put up that reply about why all the military theorycrafting to prove superiority is making critical mistakes in assessing how the enemy can respond.

I wasnt around for most of Boston, so I cant say.

I have been working off the canon charm description where leaving Sanctuary is free, whether its Molly transporting 20x people at a time, or someone inside Sanctuary trekking to the border and leaving.
But entering Sanctuary costs 2m for up to 20x people at a time.

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Isn't going to our hell and resting a new scene?

uju32 said:

We've already asked the question for this scene; thats why we're on 8m instead of 6m.

We spend 1m on a Crown question, we get 2m back if it uncovers a supernatural secret.
Net gain is +1.
Not enough if we want to go back to Sydney, which if combat happens will burn at least 6m.

Its not even that; Im reasonably sure the update pretty blatantly states the Ashraaf conspiracy have been building their own, just copying this guy's notes. But there is a non-zero chance that it could fall into the hands of other factions that also have an interest in weeding the human magical population.

And there's something under Sydney that is....worrying.

But we do not have enough Essence to go back to Sydney right now.
8/18m of Essence is not enough.
Not when we're risking a fight.

Rushing back to Sydney now will exhaust us of Essence if a fight happens.
Thats Bad.
We need to take the time to recover some Essence first.

Im for closing it entirely ASAP.

We can get Molly personally immune with a splendor, but it doesnt protect the 5 billion people in Sanctuary itself.
A vampire with Obtenebration 6 + Daimonion 6 is going to have the speed and stealth to infiltrate with a payload, and will be immune to the weapons in play.

Daimonion 8 is the point where they throw a Demon Prince-equivalent at the portal, which will cripple every mortal in the area that can perceive them in thirty seconds or less, and at that point nothing short of Molly herself will matter.

I will have to remember to put up that reply about why all the military theorycrafting to prove superiority is making critical mistakes in assessing how the enemy can respond.

I wasnt around for most of Boston, so I cant say.

I have been working off the canon charm description where leaving Sanctuary is free, whether its Molly transporting 20x people at a time, or someone inside Sanctuary trekking to the border and leaving.
But entering Sanctuary costs 2m for up to 20x people at a time.

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I feel those at 6 can be checked with wards and possibly our ai's sensors. 8 though would take hero unit shit for sure yes. but I mean wouldn't a lot of this theoretical stealth be fixable by laying traps that one can't just bypass in order to get through the portal? Like nothings impossible to get into of course but i think we're underestimating the kind of defenses protracted time to set up a defense. We should well I'm not gonna say not try to close the thing but I do want to ask dp what kind of defenses are available to be put inside and around the gate. For instance a lot of vampire powers in that one abyss discipline can be combated by just having strong lights on 24/7.

Edit: By the way I know discipline use varies between individuals in this quest but do you know what we've seen in red court disciplines in use?

uju32 said:

A vampire with Obtenebration 6 + Daimonion 6 is going to have the speed and stealth to infiltrate with a payload, and will be immune to the weapons in play.

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Neither of these are true. Obtenebration only flawlessly works on Awareness-less Mortals of which our armies are neither, it also doesn't grant immunity to the dice penalty of wards.

uju32 said:

Daimonion 8 is the point where they throw a Demon Prince-equivalent at the portal, which will cripple every mortal in the area that can perceive them in thirty seconds or less, and at that point nothing short of Molly herself will matter.

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Non of our Armies are Mortals. So the rest of this statement is also false.

[X] Go at once
-[X] Back to Sydney to secure the black mold
--[X] Use the Crown (when the scene renews) to learn the secrets of its making
--[X] Secure it to the Courts, highest level of biomedical containment for later study and possible restoration of those it consumed

If nothing is going to happen to it in the next hour, then we won't need another chunk of essence if we go right now. If stuff is going to happen to it in the next hour, then we can't afford to wait.

Either way, it seems that we should go now.

firefrog600 said:

Isn't going to our hell and resting a new scene?

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We arent going to our Hell, we're staying in Last Station
IIRC, we regen faster in a Dragon Nest than in your Hell unless we are soaking in bleach.

firefrog600 said:

I feel those at 6 can be checked with wards and possibly our ai's sensors. 8 though would take hero unit shit for sure yes. but I mean wouldn't a lot of this theoretical stealth be fixable by laying traps that one can't just bypass in order to get through the portal? Like nothings impossible to get into of course but i think we're underestimating the kind of defenses protracted time to set up a defense. We should well I'm not gonna say not try to close the thing but I do want to ask dp what kind of defenses are available to be put inside and around the gate. For instance a lot of vampire powers in that one abyss discipline can be combated by just having strong lights on 24/7.

Edit: By the way I know discipline use varies between individuals in this quest but do you know what we've seen in red court disciplines in use?

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1) We dont have wizards in our population. We cant do wizard-quality wards.
Our magic users are spirits and what would be the equivalent of sorcerers/talents; even at their best they are rather lower-powered than wizards. And the portal doesnt get a threshold to anchor wards on.

There's a reason that fiat-backed border defense was/is such a big deal.


2) Strong lights make shadows.


3) There's no official list thus far, but from what we've seen in this quest and in canon?
I am comfortable with saying:
Potence, Fortitude, Celerity, Auspex, Koldunic Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, Vicissitude, Presence and Daimonion.
Probably Dominate, Obtenebration and Protean as well, though Im not sure about that last one.

Degorium said:

Neither of these are true. Obtenebration only flawlessly works on Awareness-less Mortals of which our armies are neither, it also doesn't grant immunity to the dice penalty of wards.

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Obtenebration 2: Shroud of Night blankets the area against perception rolls
Obtenebration 5: Tenebrous Form transforms into a shadow form that can go through any cracks or gaps and can only be hurt by fire, sunlight or magic
Obtenebration 6: Shadowstep literally teleports from shadow to shadow
Obtenebration 6: Aegis of Shadows adds armor, and makes mortals and animals flee

Daimonion 6: Hell-Born Investiture gives access to investments like fire immunity.

Degorium said:

Non of our Armies are Mortals. So the rest of this statement is also false.

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Our army are mortals. Thats kinda the point.
A minority of our Hell's population are supernaturals of any sort.
Go back and look at the point build options of the Hell.

uju32 said:

But we do not have enough Essence to go back to Sydney right now.
8/18m of Essence is not enough.
Not when we're risking a fight.

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1) 8 motes is anear full E1 solaroid mote pool, or E3 terrestrial. It's a lot of power.

2) We are always risking a fight. Or, in other words, I don't see a reason why we should expect one now.

Anaja said:

[X] Go at once
-[X] Back to Sydney to secure the black mold
--[X] Use the Crown (when the scene renews) to learn the secrets of its making
--[X] Secure it to the Courts, highest level of biomedical containment for later study and possible restoration of those it consumed

If nothing is going to happen to it in the next hour, then we won't need another chunk of essence if we go right now. If stuff is going to happen to it in the next hour, then we can't afford to wait.

Either way, it seems that we should go now.

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If we thought nothing was going to happen, if we thought there was no risk?
We'd send Sophia and avoid spending Essence.

We are going specifically because we think this has the potential for becoming a major throwdown.
And if we think that, we shouldnt be going on low power.
Thats just begging for a repeat of the Vegas Temple incident.

uju32 said:

Our army are mortals. Thats kinda the point.
A minority of our Hell's population are supernaturals of any sort.
Go back and look at the point build options of the Hell.

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This is wrong, and looks like you, again, trying to interpret everything in a way least favourable to us. None of our citizens or at least soldiers are likely to count as mortals. Army training has to include supernatural martial arts and path sorcery, and a lot of them will have innate supernatural abilities

uju32 said:

We arent going to our Hell, we're staying in Last Station
IIRC, we regen faster in a Dragon Nest than in your Hell unless we are soaking in bleach.

1) We dont have wizards in our population. We cant do wizard-quality wards.
Our magic users are spirits and what would be the equivalent of sorcerers/talents; even at their best they are rather lower-powered than wizards. And the portal doesnt get a threshold to anchor wards on.

There's a reason that fiat-backed border defense was/is such a big deal.


2) Strong lights make shadows.


3) There's no official list thus far, but from what we've seen in this quest and in canon?
I am comfortable with saying:
Potence, Fortitude, Celerity, Auspex, Koldunic Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, Vicissitude, Presence and Daimonion.
Probably Dominate, Obtenebration and Protean as well, though Im not sure about that last one.


Obtenebration 2: Shroud of Night blankets the area against perception rolls
Obtenebration 5: Tenebrous Form transforms into a shadow form that can go through any cracks or gaps and can only be hurt by fire, sunlight or magic
Obtenebration 6: Shadowstep literally teleports from shadow to shadow
Obtenebration 6: Aegis of Shadows adds armor, and makes mortals and animals flee

Daimonion 6: Hell-Born Investiture gives access to investments like fire immunity.

Our army are mortals. Thats kinda the point.
A minority of our Hell's population are supernaturals of any sort.
Go back and look at the point build options of the Hell.

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Our world has a mortal population and a large number of demons they're only but our armies are largely fomori not Mortals. Simply because we have a large population of spirits that meld with mortal flesh. This is before we get into the fact that we have populations of outright supernatural creatures which serve in the army the Gurval and others like the spiders and the cyborgs. Again awareness allows you to pierce through Obtenebration it would directly place you in a roll-off with the Vampire but that's what awareness the Talent is meant to do.

Even if a mind-bogglingly low percentage of our army are Supernaturals like 20%, that's still more than 100,000 troops. Which means talking about them like they're a mortal based Army is insanely off base.

It doesn't matter that they can't do wizard quality Wards that's not what sorcerer wards do. We can Ward against vampires just like any sorcerer could war against spirits or any other Supernatural not as strongly as Wizards but they still can and the dice penalty would eat into their discipline activation rolls like nobody's business. That's especially bad when Shadow step can lead to you being lost in a shadow dimension forever.

All of this also assumes that we just have no Spirits helping our stationed troops on either side which is an immediately false assumption for no apparent reason.

Yog said:

1) 8 motes is anear full E1 solaroid mote pool, or E3 terrestrial. It's a lot of power.

2) We are always risking a fight. Or, in other words, I don't see a reason why we should expect one now.

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1)Yes its a lot of power for an E1 Solaroid. For an E4, its below half-tank.

An E1 Solaroid isnt walking themselves into this type of scenario, nor do they expect to repeat this several times today.
Its my opinion that we'd have our ass hanging out to show up back up to tackle a demon construct thing that has had unknown contact with a Nephandus-type while on 44% power.


2)That is inaccurate. We are not always risking a fight wherever we go.

We just got told that <Teacher> whoever the fuck he is, appears to have a backdoor to this entire project of Shaw's.
There's a non-trivial chance that it gets empowered specifically as an attritional obstacle.
And thats not counting whatever the Hell we almost tripped over in Botany Bay.

If we thought this was safe, we'd stay in Last Station and send Sophia.
We dont. Thats why we're going ourself.

aren't like a third of our population non humans?

Yog said:

This is wrong, and looks like you, again, trying to interpret everything in a way least favourable to us. None of our citizens or at least soldiers are likely to count as mortals. Army training has to include supernatural martial arts and path sorcery, and a lot of them will have innate supernatural abilities

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No, you're wrong. Go back and look at the options to build Sanctuary again.
We're a multi-species society. We're NOT a non-mortal society. We have supernatural members, but they are a small fraction of our society.

Shih are no less mortal just because they know how to wield supernatural martial arts; I fail to fathom why you would think that
teaching makes our soldiers non-mortal.

uju32 said:

1)Yes its a lot of power for an E1 Solaroid. For an E4, its below half-tank.

An E1 Solaroid isnt walking themselves into this type of scenario, nor do they expect to repeat this several times today.
Its my opinion that we'd have our ass hanging out to show up back up to tackle a demon construct thing that has had unknown contact with a Nephandus-type while on 44% power.


2)That is inaccurate. We are not always risking a fight wherever we go.

We just got told that <Teacher> whoever the fuck he is, appears to have a backdoor to this entire project of Shaw's.
There's a non-trivial chance that it gets empowered specifically as an attritional obstacle.
And thats not counting whatever the Hell we almost tripped over in Botany Bay.

If we thought this was safe, we'd stay in Last Station and send Sophia.
We dont. Thats why we're going ourself.

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Oh I completely agree on getting us some regen at least just not the vampires stuff. Well the completely outclass us part I mostly agree on the discipline stuff and that they are a threat.

uju32 said:

No, you're wrong. Go back and look at the options to build Sanctuary again.
We're a multi-species society. We're NOT a non-mortal society. We have supernatural members, but they are a small fraction of our society.

Shih are no less mortal just because they know how to wield supernatural martial arts; I fail to fathom why you would think that
teaching makes our soldiers non-mortal.

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I remember that hundreds of millions were freed from balefire cancer by our power. So there are at least hundreds of millions of pseudo dragons and I highly doubt they count as mortal.

uju32 said:

No, you're wrong. Go back and look at the options to build Sanctuary again.
We're a multi-species society. We're NOT a non-mortal society. We have supernatural members, but they are a small fraction of our society.

Shih are no less mortal just because they know how to wield supernatural martial arts; I fail to fathom why you would think that
teaching makes our soldiers non-mortal.

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Beings with Supernatural powers can resist Supernatural Powers it doesn't matter if they have essentially a mortality tag try using a discipline on a mage or a shih and not have them resist as if they were a supernatural I'll wait. This is before the fact that a large portion of our population are mortal Supernaturals like fomori and dragonkin and all of them are creatures of Darkness.