Fair, will add.
As for why Morgan is interrogating people... he is actually the best here at manipulation+Intimidation specifically.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Fair, will add.
As for why Morgan is interrogating people... he is actually the best here at manipulation+Intimidation specifically.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Imagine some depraved soul becomes a half red. He kills someone and his soul is sent to Yomi well a red vampire takes over his body. That soul manages to escape the thousand hells and becomes a Jade Vampire.
Now you have a Jade and Red vampire who both have the same name and remember the same life.
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That actually might work, although you would have to convince the Wardens to give it to you rather than... killing it with fire. Also the resulting souls may not be all one person.
Huh. Thats a little surprising.
I wonder if Isabella is having her fill of excitement yet. Im guessing the older wizards arent particularly comfortable at having a White Court vampire sitting in on the interrogation of a Council traitor, never mind one from a prominent family.It really is a quiet sign of faith that they havent made a point of it. Or possibly, just prioritizing the actual existential threat over secrecy.
And Olivia for that matter, who used to chafe at the whole wizard policing thing.
Getting to look behind the curtain is probably not at all comforting.
Im assuming Morgan et al have already done this after Molly briefed them and went gallivanting to Australia.
Or at least tried to.
Just like when Morgan went to Sanctuary, and we would bring him out every day or so to send a message.
Morgan is canonically the Merlin's man and strong supporter, and he would try to get in contact.
IF he thought he could do so without tipping off the conspirators.
This assumes that the person's soul is in there. I think Molly would have noticed human souls in the demon mold when she saw it, or Clippy would. I was assuming that the thing simply stole their memories/knowledge in the process of eating/killing them, and the souls themselves went wherever souls normally go.
Capturing and holding a soul outside its body on Earth is a very big deal after all, and I have trouble buying that some middling evil wizard can build a demon construct capable of actually doing this.
If infamous archmages like Kemmler and Corpsetaker dont do that shit, I doubt Shaw can.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
How? Seriously, how are we going to do this? Do we have auspex or something similar? Seriously, how is Molly supposed to spot the souls?
Molly has no native way to see souls. That said it could just be mind impressions, he seems to be interested in saving knowledge in expectation of some kind of vast transformation of at least magical society.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
The more I hear about the conspiracy, the more I think this adventure will result in a lore dump for Molly. Because we can't resist diving headfirst into the forbidden knowledge that drives mages mad on the path of dark magic.
In any case, I'm not sure yet what to do. Although I think we can spend a little more time on interrogation, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's better to go straight to further actions against the conspirators. Or even better, restore the essence
In any case, I'm not sure yet what to do. Although I think we can spend a little more time on interrogation, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's better to go straight to further actions against the conspirators. Or even better, restore the essence
Perception + Occult roll, where Occult is Key for Molly.
Remember when we were walking on the Ebon Road and could tell that the souls/spirits of the people who had been paralyzed and taken by it were still there?
Plus, she had Clippy with her, and spirits see spirits as a native ability. And the mold wasnt exactly hiding.
Also, at Awareness 3, you can outright see the auras that people/spirits/ghosts normally project without a roll.
Your ruling. Whatever works for your story.
I just had my doubts about the ability of this particular schmuck to imprison human souls in a bottle or whatnot; it appears to take a lot more mojo than he has to fuck with things that way in a setting where the White God didnt go out for smokes.
Too many factions would try to hang on to mortal souls if it was that easy.
Its not just about taking out the conspirators.
Its about doing so without blowing up the White Council, and preferably without any innocent casualties.
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Do we need to vote for this now? Because this does sound like a good idea.
While I overall agree with the plan, and am voting for it, the stunt just doesn't work. He would almost certainly already know who Molly is. Also, for this to be effective, we need to offer him something. Like, "a ten thousand years jail time and rehabilitation" is a better alternative to death and hell.
[X]Plan Confessional
You need to vote for it before the White Council breaks out the cleansing flame which will probably be once the crises is over.
1) He may or may not know Molly beforehand.
He certainly knows Molly as one of the people who is currently sitting in on his interrogation.
However. He doesnt know who Sophia is.
When Sophia is running most of her social buffs, she gives a very different initial impression from Molly.
Even if she hasnt used Paint With Flesh to alter her look, with Siren's Veil active she is currently Appearance 5 to Molly's Appearance 3. Add the fact that she's rocking Charisma 10 for the scene, and I would expect him to not connect the two of them.
Also, just as an aside
2) We dont need to offer him a thing.
Good RL interrogators can make you talk without torture or bait, by knowing what buttons to push. Remember that we didnt offer Gorefel a thing either to get him to keep slipping information, and we're much better at this now than we were then.
Besides, frankly I dont think its within our power/remit to offer him deals without the acquiesence of the Senior Council.
I dont think Morgan can do that, and he is deputy Warden head.
I was planning to kill it, just in our hell instead of on earth. I guess we could give it to the Amethyst City to see if the priesthood can save anyone.
Wait, isn't Isabella supposed to be babysitting the trainees right now? I don't think they're ready to see this part of the job.
Honestly given how everything is going down I'm almost concerned some of them will bail after it's over.
We should really follow up on that though. We sent a message through Odin so if that's going to tip people off then they may already be aware.
This was why I asked, because it sounded like it interacted with souls and could have gone in that direction.
As to why others might not? As you frequently point out Harry not seeing it and it not happening aren't the same thing. Kemmler might simply not have cared to do so on the projects that Harry saw the fruit of.
Assuming there's souls there, which I doubt, they might let us try if we offered to let someone observe to ensure no necromancy is in play. Not that Im comfortable letting random wizards look at our shit, but its not a dealbreaker for me.
If you read the update again, Isabella is present at the interrogation.
And yes, its a risk. Thats for the Council to worry about.
If they would, better they decline now than to lose their nerve when facing some eldritch bullshit on a battlefield somewhere.
A wizard still adds to Council strength, even if they arent a Warden. Either way, not our business.
I dont really know how we can follow up on that without just...going to the Hidden Halls to uproot Peabody.
Once Molly is topped up, Im voting for following up anyway, with or without Ebenezar.
Harry didnt really see any Kemmler projects that I can recall, but Bob did, and he can explicitly see souls; thats how he knew Harry used soulfire. And even with the exorcism of Evil Bob, I think he'd remember Kemmler fucking with souls.
I think that's several steps of assumption too far. We have no idea what they'd request if anything but they're well aware we don't use mortal magic like they do.
I know, my point was that if she's here who's watching the sprogs? Bringing them to the interrogation would have been a bad call in my book.
Why? If Kemmler did it'd be amongst his most screwed up projects. That's the kind of thing that'd be heavily tilted to the evil Bob side.
At very least we know he performed some magic on his own soul, since he came back to life multiple times even when killed by wizards who knew what they were dealing with.
So the question isn't if he messed with souls at all, but if he messed with anyone else's as part of the learning process or for any other purpose than his resurrection.
Our people are varying shades of mortal, and use magic close enough to count.
So I can see concerns raised.
There's no indication the kids are present at the interrogation; I agree that they have no place here.
As for who's keeping an eye on them? There's more than a hundred Jade Dogs at this point IIRC. Augustine. Nelson/Mutt.
Any Sanctuary agents on this side of the veil at the moment. Plus Porter, who is fond of kids.
There's also TVs and pool tables and computers and the like. There arent short of amusements and minders.
Because thats not the kind of thing that would have been kept quiet
Especially not with Kemmler, who was allegedly the evangelical sort about his interests; the Council had to engage in years or decades of book burnings just to keep the details of what he did out of the hands of potential followers.
Fair point about his resurrections.
However, that kinda makes my point about ; if its pretty public knowledge that he did something with his own soul/life in the privacy of his labs, it would be even more well known if he messed with those of other people.
It's known that he came back from the dead, but public knowledge of the end results of his efforts isn't the same as public knowledge of how he did them. Kemmler did spread his knowledge, but he was also basically a magic nazi and had a huge hang up on worth. He wouldn't necessarily share everything with everyone.
While not direct evidence, we also know that in the quest and in canon all ghosts are vulnerable to necromancy regardless of if they're true souls or ectoplasmic impressions. So any necromancer who spent long enough binding spirits would eventually have access to some sort of souls to study.
In any case the only point I was trying to prove was that it's possible for souls to be kept around even if it's probably pretty hard to do.
- Location
- Brazil
I mean, Kemmler doesn't seem like a Nagash type, every time we#ve seen his teachings in the canon they've been untangled and complete (even if the total knowledge could be divided into several books). To me he's always had a genuine desire to spread his horrible knowledge.
He did want to spread his art, but look at what we saw with Mathews. When looking at his character it's important to remember that Kemmler spent at least a century actively trying to set up WW1 and then stir things up again for WW2 in the DF. His closest assistant dressed up in an SS uniform out of nostalgia.
Clearly it could happen without him, but that's the kind of person he was.
To him there's a scale with real people at the top and resources to exploit on the bottom. It wouldn't be that weird for someone like that to simultaneously spread his "art" while keeping the best bits for himself and his chosen apprentices. Given that he didn't publish a guide to coming back from the dead we know he did that with at least one piece of knowledge.
- Location
- Brazil
I'm not denying that he used the Nazis and provoked fights, but that he belive on it. I doubt very much that he cared less about whether a human was Aryanor not, but rather whether he could use thet souls/corpses for something. He probably saw all other humans, including his disciples, as beneath him, with that delicious megalomania of black wizards.
He didn't even pass on this specific knowledge to his apprentices. And I completely understand not passing it on because it could open a loophole in his resurrection method, and the White Council and many others would be more than willing to dedicate the effort to this if necessary.
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He published and disseminated his books at his own expense in order to spread that knowledge around.
The Wardens spent 20 years destroying his books.
I dont think there's any real doubt that he would share this sort of thing; man was a true believer.
My two cents anyway.
I think he was more a magic supremacist than a racial one. The reason I brought up Mathews was that we saw this dynamic play out between members of his old underlings.
As to passing on this knowledge; Corpsetaker exists.
A necromancer like him could trivially get access to true soul ghosts, and we have decent evidence of his research into personal scale soul manipulation. Which was evidently low level enough that a lesser (but still potent) necromancer could make use of it.
I think this is suitable evidence the purposes of showing that a dark wizard could do screwed up things to souls.
