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[X] Plan: Staggered Refit
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
So uh, something I think possibly a few people have missed is the fact that the other plans only have enough Interstellar Surveyors for 1 complete scouting force. Breaking it down we would have 4 DSSes, 2 FSSes, and only 2 ISes when we need 4 for a proper second scout force.
Edit;
To be fair though that could very well be intentional.
Edit;
To be fair though that could very well be intentional.
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[X] OPLAN Reflex Action
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
The MMV is intended to be an expeditionary fighting ship and not a dedicated marine ship, so "only" having thirty marines isn't really a problem in my eyes.
Would you consider replacing it with a trio of interstellar cruisers, given the limits Wallfly pointed out?
I don't think that 30 marines is enough to really fight tbh, unless we're talking some power-armoured super soldier type deal where those 30 troops can overwhelm the inhabitants of a station. Otherwise, we're limited to just boarding other ships, and I don't think that's really fitting what we're being asked for.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
No, because I envision the MMV as basically a heavier cruiser than I do a dedicated landing ship - it's multirole, so it can do a bit of everything, and I think it's worth investing in.
If we want to build a dedicated lander, sure, but I still think the MMV is a good project to pursue for defense, exploration and firepower purposes.
With the changes in doctrine it's expected that most of our ships are long-ranged, so it's no longer an explicit expeditionary craft. That said, a small number of marines isn't a problem, in fact the less we can get away with the better. Stick small teams on MMVs to act as 'away teams' and bigger companies on dedicated landers to act as an actual combat teams and we're solid.
Fair enough, then. If it's not being used to fit that requirement I don't have qualms about it.
I'm still worried that we only have one scouting group but I guess it is what it is.
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To be honest refitting the ICs while we have the free dockspace to do it en-mass so they stay competitive longer feels like the prudent choice.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
The main benefit of a Block II for the ICs is gonna probably be longer range so they can keep up with our scout groups and better engines. I doubt any of our weapons are going to be obsolete in the near future, ditto the ICs, although that will depend on what we start running into.
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Refits, for sure. Afterwards more ICs for patroling and two or three MMVs.
As for my preferences for craft to supplement our fleets, it goes as such: Marine Assault Craft > Civilian Infrastructure > Military Infrastructure (meaning defended outposts and anchorages) > Carriers > Bodkins.
[X] OPLAN Reflex Action
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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1. They want a FLIF ship, they dont say how much they need. It's up to you and what you forsee being useful.
2. It means securing against enemy intelligence. You can build modern forces in S'Taxu.
3. Uhhhh depends on the exact build? But generally yeah.
This is correct.
Modern jump drives are cheaper. A PJ-1 is 4% of hull, 3MCr. per ton. A J-1 (at TL 9) is 2% of hull, 2MCr. per ton.
A Major refit takes 25% of the time the ship takes to build, and 1.5 times the cost of the new equipment. It's hard to judge without doing the refits stat wise.
I've got no idea how would that work in terms of ship-design. I guess electronics? Or, it could mean personel, meaning we would need to implement more stringent screening processes to deny all anti-government spies and sympathisers from access to sensitive information.
Not a bad deal. The short time means we don't need to stagger refits over four years, we can do over one or two years in small batches.
No idea. We haven't yet encountered a situation where landing troops was required. We've got no idea what tends to be the usual complement of soldiers that are expected to guard an important target. At this point, I'd say to just build a small dedicated craft for that, perhaps 1K, and just use it for testing. We can run war-game assaults on our SDDs, the Deep Hope station and various ground targets and see what happens. If a 1K ship doesn't work we'll build bigger ones later.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Thanks; so the IC refits are looking at more like... 40M cr for the engines, plus whatever else. Call it 80Mcreds to be safe.
Gonna rework my plan:
[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
-[X] Immediate: Begin refit of 1 IC to Block II (1k tons, 80? MCred); upgrade J and M Drives and add drop tank capability (ideally to get 2+2 range), use spare tonnage to increase crew comfort for longer missions if possible.
-[X] 11 Months: Construct Revised MMV design with addition of improved drives (1350 MCred)
-[X] 11 months: Refit existing Interstellar Cruisers to Block II two at a time to maintain active ships (2k tons, 80 MCred/refit); continue until refits complete as budget allows. At 30 weeks per refit we can squeeze two rounds of refits in for a total of 160 MCreds for the year.
-[X] 11 Months: 1x DSS (500 tons, 200 MCr)
-[X] 11 months: start construction on station segments for outpost and fuel depot/mine in Heimdall and to complete the fuel depot Staging Point as budget allows.
-[X] 11 months: Review revised MMV design and investigate what a dedicated marine lander variant built on the same chassis might look like. Also solicit designs for lander designs for 100 tons - 2k range.
-[X] Scouting: Yes, but every operation requires authorization from the highest levels.
-[X] Scouting: A flotilla support ship, two DSS ships and two IS ships for maximum capability.
This brings us in with roughly 90 MCred remaining (conservatively, we'll probably have more since I'm not quite sure if the refits will be that expensive, but I'm planning for the worst-case scenario), not sure what else to throw in - station segments, maybe?
Gonna rework my plan:
[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
-[X] Immediate: Begin refit of 1 IC to Block II (1k tons, 80? MCred); upgrade J and M Drives and add drop tank capability (ideally to get 2+2 range), use spare tonnage to increase crew comfort for longer missions if possible.
-[X] 11 Months: Construct Revised MMV design with addition of improved drives (1350 MCred)
-[X] 11 months: Refit existing Interstellar Cruisers to Block II two at a time to maintain active ships (2k tons, 80 MCred/refit); continue until refits complete as budget allows. At 30 weeks per refit we can squeeze two rounds of refits in for a total of 160 MCreds for the year.
-[X] 11 Months: 1x DSS (500 tons, 200 MCr)
-[X] 11 months: start construction on station segments for outpost and fuel depot/mine in Heimdall and to complete the fuel depot Staging Point as budget allows.
-[X] 11 months: Review revised MMV design and investigate what a dedicated marine lander variant built on the same chassis might look like. Also solicit designs for lander designs for 100 tons - 2k range.
-[X] Scouting: Yes, but every operation requires authorization from the highest levels.
-[X] Scouting: A flotilla support ship, two DSS ships and two IS ships for maximum capability.
This brings us in with roughly 90 MCred remaining (conservatively, we'll probably have more since I'm not quite sure if the refits will be that expensive, but I'm planning for the worst-case scenario), not sure what else to throw in - station segments, maybe?
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Leave it. It's a small percentage of our funds and it's always a good idea to have something in reserve. Plus, we're spending funds on drop-tanks which are going to become more ubiqutous now.
I'd request that the plan called for two variants of a lander, including the smaller 1K one, and some MMV variants to choose from, so we can have more detailed choice in the next update. You might also want to put back IC-2 to Immediate, since it's bigger and more expensive. Aside from that, it's basically equivalent to what I envisioned, so I can get behind it:
[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
Not gonna lie, laughed a bit at this line considering the recent argument about carriers and small craft.
We really should try to get that down to something like 20 MCreds. The closer we get to going overbudget, the stronger the argument for raising our budget after all. That and drop-tanks really should not be something we're that budget conscious of considering in normal/routine operation they aren't even going to be used.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I'm open to figuring out where we want to put the outpost/fuel depot - argument for Staging Point is that we could then make the trip to Heimdall without needing drop tanks, top up at Staging Point and then go on to Heimdall. Although we'll probably want one in each system eventually.
EDIT: with regards to the budget, could throw the money at more station segments. As noted we want to build a fuel station in both locations anyway.
EDIT: with regards to the budget, could throw the money at more station segments. As noted we want to build a fuel station in both locations anyway.
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[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
That's where I got the idea.
If we really want to burn cash, then we should just build more civilian station segments.
Fuel depot is already constructed at Staging Point. We don't need more than that over there. We could use more stuff at Heimdall. We can use the same design as we've got at Deep Hope and then add an archorage and some defenses. But, remember, we're still not sure this system isn't claimed. Let's have some IC patrols over there beforehand, so we don't blunder into a needless conflict.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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Clearly we just need to start going over budget immediately and never stop, thereby normalizing it as simply the expected way our funding works.
(disclaimer: we should not actually do this, the budget cuts were driven by game-design reasoning & thus won't be circumvented by IC shenanigans)
(it would be funny though)
(disclaimer: we should not actually do this, the budget cuts were driven by game-design reasoning & thus won't be circumvented by IC shenanigans)
(it would be funny though)