Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

Astronavigation is still astronavigation though? Like, part of asking the question was also to get an answer of if fighter craft are viable as well. I can accept being flatly wrong.
 
@4WheelSword, under the pilot system we won't ever really think of traditional carriers as worth the investment. However, would we be able to pursue semi-disposable drones, similar to Children of a Dead Earth?
Absolutely you can.

I've always been unsure about piloted fighters. On the one hand, I don't ask for shipyard space or pilots (resource) for small craft like shuttles. On the other hand, it's very clear that Trillion Credit Squadron intended to have players prioritise drone fighters if they had carriers. Add into that that traveller is sort of... soft sci-fi that echoes hard sci-fi and it's always been more the expanse than star wars and Idk.

I guess it's a conversation to have when we get to the point of defining a carrier wing!
 
4-6: Deep Diver
Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Aug 5, 2024 at 6:59 AM, finished with 66 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Deep diving and Looking to Hermosa
    [X] Plan Western View
    -[X] Yes, order one.
    --[X] If feasible without forgoing the construction bonus, include visual differentiation from Interstellar Cruisers.
    -[X] Organise and conduct an 'Operation Western View', from sector S'Taxu.
    --[X] Similar to Southern View. Assign both DDSs, an FSS and 4 ICs. Begin at -02:00.
    -[X] Inform the government of S'Taxu of the possible threat from Hermosa. Inform them that HSWS will be maintaining observations in that direction and offer to hold talks regarding potential defense coordination.
    --[X] After Staging Point station is complete, assign one Insterstellar Cruiser for periodic patrols in Heimdall.
    -[X] We should conduct deeper studies of -01,02, including orbital surveys of '-7' and landing teams on '-8'.
    --[X] This should be done after Interstellar Surveyors have their systems upgraded and either the FFS has returned from Western View, or Staging Point station is able to refuel the expedition, or Nova Refugio has agreed to refuel our craft. Both ISs and two escort ICs should be assigned to the operation.
    [X] Deep diving and Looking to Hermosa
    -[X] It could be improved by the following means: Aesthetics. Make sure that the diplomatic cruiser is visually different from the standard interstellar cruiser, so claims it is a "diplomatic vessel" hold more weight.
    -[X] We should design an aerostat/pressure hulled shuttle to explore gas giants and the anomalous world.
    -[X] We should conduct deeper studies of -01,02, including orbital surveys of '-7' and landing teams on '-8'.
    -[X] Inform the government of S'Taxu of our discoveries, with the following goal: Organize a defense strategy against the large, potentially hostile authoritarian power in Hermosa.
    -[X] Organise and conduct an 'Operation Eastern View', from Xyri.


Are we content with the diplomatic courier design? It could be improved by the following means: Aesthetics. Make sure that the diplomatic cruiser is visually different from the standard interstellar cruiser, so claims it is a "diplomatic vessel" hold more weight.
What are our next steps for exploration, diplomacy and war-making? Deep diving and Looking to Hermosa



Diplomatic Transport
While the original intention behind the Diplomatic Courier being a variant of the Interstellar Cruiser was to maintain security while under escort, it has been pointed out that looking like a warship is not always the ideal position for such a ship. It will instead be redesigned as a streamlined, self-landing ship much like the DSS is capable of, which will lose it the benefit of being a variant of the cruiser but gain the ability to become a functional 'flying embassy' that can set down on any planet.

The first - and currently only - planned ship of this type will be laid down in the third month of the sixth year, as soon as yard space becomes available. The additional construction time is considered a small price to pay to have a notable and recognisable ship of peace.



Deep Diver Shuttle
While not a priority to some in the Service, there are others that think the future of science will and must include deployments by the Service rather than relying entirely on the activities of the civilian bodies such as the SIS. With the funding and yard-space available to us, it is far simpler for us to simply request and build a shuttle capable of plunging deep into a gas giant or an anomalous world without needing to rely on funding grants or university interests. Thus, the 'Deep Diver' is born.

Capable of plunging deep into a liquid ocean, into the depths of a gas giant or into more hostile and vile environs and allowing her crew of four direct access to studying those situations for up to three days, this shuttle can be carried aboard an Interstellar Surveyor or any other ship capable of carrying the now standard 90-ton shuttle. It will be ready for service in ten months, circa 06y10m00w.



Diplomatic Overtures
With the noted presence of a distant and dangerous inhabited sector within the local cluster, diplomatic teams are sent to S'Taxu's various notable factions to inform them of the fact. There is brief panic when the Chambrestrong Dynasty is informed and they consider retaking control over the nuclear orbitals from the current shared capability agreement. However, they are reassured of the continued presence of the Interstellar Cruiser in their orbits and that Home will not abandon an ally. They would like a greater warship presence to be stationed in S'Taxu, potentially including a permanent HSWS installation in orbit around one of the uninhabited worlds. They would be willing to offer 1,000Dtons of yards to this endeavour.

The Junta, however, has another suggestion. They would like to begin construction of warships in the local volume, using their yards and crewed by local sailors - a mixture of Junta, Xyphon and Cassalon citizens - but they will be in all other aspects part of the Home Space Warfare Service. The Peoples Military Council is willing to give up 4,000Dtons of shipyard for the combined defence of the systems which will, functionally, become a part of the Home yards, seperated only by distance. If accepted, it would give us a 50% increase in the yard space we have available for construction.

What would the Navy prefer?
[ ] The Dynasts 1,000 tons and a permament station.
[ ] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
[ ] Something else - write-in.
[ ] Nothing, they must fend for themselves!



Scouting Operations
Two task forces are set up and dispatched to their various operations. The ships Thishtrya, Janus and Sakumo and the HSLS Lakapati will head south, via Staging Point to the sector still currently designated as -01,02 to conduct orbital surveys of the inhabited water world and to land a research team on the anomalous transient world currently called 'Eight'. This is expected to take ten weeks, with a three week operation in -01,02, and will return to Home circa 06y03m00w.

The second task force will conduct a much more low key but still vitally important 'Operation Eastern View'. Using Xyri as a launching point, the HSWS Aditi and the HSWS Culsans, accompanied by the HSWS Apedemak, will conduct long duration surveys from two points in deep space - 02,-01 and 02,00. This will slowly but surely roll back the edges of known space, without putting any of our ships at risk. This is expected to last fifteen weeks before their return to Home, with a due date circa 06y04m03w. The following map displays the sectors we are expecting to recover information about (in light grey).

By the time these two missions return the third Deep Space Surveyor will be complete and so will the Deep Hope Modular Station. We will be able to begin construction of a diplomatic vessel and conduct the refits of the Interstellar Surveyors to bring them up to modern standards.

Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
Easy one today because my pain is bad. Have fun!
 
@4WheelSword Question: Is remote detection, as we're doing with Eastern View, enough to discover small objects such as those in Staging Point or Deep Hope?
@4WheelSword Another Question: Dynasts offer 1K and Junta offers 4K of their yards, but for how long? Peace deal obliges the Junta to get permission to build jump-capable ships, are the Dynasts willing to give that permission? Or, is the peace deal being side-stepped?

S'taxu's reaction was rather unexpected, since the threat is, as of this moment, unconfirmed. Still, there's an express desire for greater tonnage of warships to be stationed at S'taxu. That's an excellent invitation to station the first Monitor over there.

Both options given by S'taxu governments are tempting. 4K of yard space is a significant increase and a permanent space station would cement our political position there even more than ICs or Monitors would.
 
@4WheelSword Question: Is remote detection, as we're doing with Eastern View, enough to discover small objects such as those in Staging Point or Deep Hope?
@4WheelSword Another Question: Dynasts offer 1K and Junta offers 4K of their yards, but for how long? Peace deal obliges the Junta to get permission to build jump-capable ships, are the Dynasts willing to give that permission? Or, is the peace deal being side-stepped?
1) Yeah, but its hard. Easier to jump in and be there to look.
2) That isn't clear. These certainly seem like long term offers.
 
[ ] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
Does this offer require the new S'Taxu-crewed ships to remain on defensive station in S'Taxu indefinitely, or would we be free to redeploy them provided we maintain some form of protection for the system (e.g. a Monitor, which physically could not be built in the offered yard space)?
 
I'm inclined to take the junta's offer although I don't know how much hard feeling there might still be from the whole orbital bombardment thing.
 
[X] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.

Holy hell this is huge. We get 50% more yard space, access to another population's pilot roster, and can start to degrade the hostile barriers keeping the S'Taxu system separated and can progress on merging into one polity. Yes!
 
The downside is that we're getting ships that are fully crewed by non-Homians, but even so it's quite tempting.

Plus, nothing prevents us from choosing both, which we might want to do not to show favouritism.
 
Plus, nothing prevents us from choosing both, which we might want to do not to show favouritism
We really should choose both in my opinion. Choosing the Junta offer alone feels risky. The crews of those ships will not be loyal to us, they will be loyal to the Junta and its allies. If they end up double-crossing us, the results could be disastrous. Having a station in the system prevents the balance of power from shifting completely in the Junta's power.
 
Omake: A Modest Proposal
A Modest Proposal

...The moral and intellectual case for the contactless surveillance is self-evident enough not to be repeated once more. However, the practical implications of the Deep Diver are too useful to miss.
Submerged in the oceans of the Mystery-7 planet, the Deep Diver could stealthily approach the inhabited isles and observe them via sensors from the far lesser distance than the orbital survey. Keeping it hidden and therefore not interferring with the natural flow of aboriginal life would leave the observation results unspoiled. Vast sociological and anthropological knowledge could and would be extracted this way. The new contactless approaches would doubtlessly improve not only our knowledge of the human socities in general, but also the methodoligies of studying the future cases of abandoned, post-catastrophe or technophobic civilizations. In perfect world, the better stealth explorer shuttle would be be diesigned for those future operations - doubtlessly from the knowledge gained by using the Deep Diver at Mystery-7. While 3 days worth of fuel is hardly sufficient, some of the cargo space could be sacrificed for the extended fuel and and rations supply, increasing the autonomy of the vessel...

Prof. Tran John Blaise, PhD

Addendum

While our hands-off approach at -01,02-7 is not informed by some desire of "unspoiled anthropological observation" that respected Professor keeps praising (and so does his faction in SIS), this letter at least proposes useful approach. The "underwater stealth observer" would be useful in determining if the anomalous tech-less condition on the -01,02-7 is caused by some external actor, and if so, maybe even some information on this potential actor could be gleaned. If there are any "exactor" observation posts in the ocean itself, or any wreckage on the ocean bottom, those would be discovered by the Deep Diver without endangering our ships.

In future missions the refined and improved Deep Diver could be used on more developed planets. Inserted in the ocean out of reach of terrestrial anti-orbital weapons, it can then approach and conduct recon on the planetside installations from closer distances than otherwise approachable.
The larger version of Deep Diver could be fitted with a small missile bay and carry a few nuclear missiles to strike at planetside targets, ones that would be too well protected to conduct the S'Taxu-type orbital strikes against them...

Commodore Sinubulan, HSWS Procurement
 
We really should choose both in my opinion. Choosing the Junta offer alone feels risky. The crews of those ships will not be loyal to us, they will be loyal to the Junta and its allies. If they end up double-crossing us, the results could be disastrous. Having a station in the system prevents the balance of power from shifting completely in the Junta's power.
We could perhaps negotiate the exact commitment with the Junta, so that we less yards, but that some fraction of the ships built in S'taxu are crewed by us? Or, perhaps we insist that the officers abord these ships are HSWS? Consider that these ships might operate alone and at some point we might forget which ships S'taxian crews and send it somewhere where it might slip from us and, say, begin pirating on the fringes of our space?
 
Gotta extend trust to get trust, I think.
Hmmm... Good point. The Dynasts trust us more, so it makes sense to favour them more, but I still don't want to give up on the yards offered by the Junta. Perhaps:

[ ] Plan Both
-[ ] The Dynasts 1,000 tons and a permanent station.
--[ ] In addition offer the permanent stationing of an Interstellar Monitor in S'taxu, once it is built.
-[ ] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
--[ ] Negotiate for mixed crews or inducting S'taxian sailors into HSWS. HSWS is OK with accepting lesser yard space commitment from the Junta, but there must be uniform chain of command.
-[ ] Negotiate to harmonize both offers. If the Dynast and Junta position turn out to be mutually exclusive, lean towards the Dynasts.
 
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[X] Plan: Just Junta
-[X] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.

[] Plan: I guess the Dynasts too
-[] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
-[] The Dynasts 1,000 tons and a permament station.

I personally prefer just the Junta's offer. Cause the Dynasts really have no ground to offer us the right to a station around a planet they don't control. But if people just want to yard space max I made a plan for that too
 
To the credit of the Dynasts' offer, if we add 1,000 dtons to the extant 2,000 dtons of yard space they're offering us, we could start building an MMV right away.
 
I personally prefer just the Junta's offer. Cause the Dynasts really have no ground to offer us the right to a station around a planet they don't control.
Junta has just the outer planets, we could place that station over S'taxu-2.
To the credit of the Dynasts' offer, if we add 1,000 dtons to the extant 2,000 dtons of yard space they're offering us, we could start building an MMV right away.
Perhaps not right away, since the ship has to be built at the same place. 1K tonnes is just enough to pump out some ICs for patrol and escort duties, we've got eight of those but our commitments are growing.
 
Can we do both? It asked us which the Navy prefers. I guess we can say we think they're both good. If it's valid, I do think we should do that not just because more is more but also because it shows we're willing to play ball with everyone.
 
Can we do both? It asked us which the Navy prefers. I guess we can say we think they're both good. If it's valid, I do think we should do that not just because more is more but also because it shows we're willing to play ball with everyone.
Good point. It's about our preference, same as it was when we were chosing our initial ally in S'taxu, back then we wanted Junta, but our Civilian Council chose the Dynasts instead. It might well happen again. Overall, I do think we should attempt both, but make it clear that if we can't have both then we're choosing the safer option.
 
I think any plan should include the clause that all senior officers and security staff on these S'Taxu crewed ships should be Homians. At least at first.
 
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