Yes, psychic powers can be used though it.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Yes, psychic powers can be used though it.
A bit too dark for Rosie, I think.
[X] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
-[X] Introduce the spirit to Olivia
VOTE
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
RATIONALE
I wouldnt give a mortal or talent I like a mirror that a Denarian + Fallen might come looking for when it gets a new host.
Thats like basic Do No Harm shit in my opinion.
And I suspect that if we explained their history to most Cauldronites, they would decline as well.
They are Creatures of Darkness, which means Demonic Primacy applies.
Molly rolls Cha 3 + Etiquette 5 + Excellency 8 + Stunt 2 = 18 dice at DC 4(Standard 6 - Demonic Primacy 2)
Average 13-14 successes.
Viable.
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
RATIONALE
I wouldnt give a mortal or talent I like a mirror that a Denarian + Fallen might come looking for when it gets a new host.
Thats like basic Do No Harm shit in my opinion.
And I suspect that if we explained their history to most Cauldronites, they would decline as well.
They are Creatures of Darkness, which means Demonic Primacy applies.
Molly rolls Cha 3 + Etiquette 5 + Excellency 8 + Stunt 2 = 18 dice at DC 4(Standard 6 - Demonic Primacy 2)
Average 13-14 successes.
Viable.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
-[X] Introduce the spirit to Olivia
-[X] Introduce the spirit to Olivia
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Thus, Olivia. She has relevant magical talents, is herself a creature of darkness and as our retainer will be targeted by Denarians anyway. She can use all the buffs we can get her.
Possibly Rosie too, but Olivia would get more use out of it.
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BoredMan
It seems there was some brain damage after all
Oh yeah wasn't there a plotline surrounding that?
Looking back, I have no idea what they meant by this.
@DragonParadox Errors.
Should be "for".
Of Dead Nodes
I believe this was meant to be "wouldn't".
"On"? Though given that Anti-Bob was inside of government property it's probably fine as is.
Plural.
- Location
- portugal
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] You're sure someone in the Order of the Cauldron could use a helpful scrying mirror even if it feels a little dark
-[X] Introduce the spirit to Olivia
-[X] Introduce the spirit to Olivia
Couple replies from before:
It comes off to me as inventing a problem that doesnt exist.
Harry has never hesitated to seek appropriate help when he's needed it, as long as there arent other complicating factors.
In Grave Peril he took Michael to Bianca's Ball as backup. In Summer Knight he took the Alphas, a bunch of college students, to war as backup. In Death Masks he asked Shiro to act as his second. In Blood Rites he hires Kincaid, and recruits both Murphy and his teacher/grandfather to help with Mavra. In Dead Beat he called his godmother to ask for advice.
I could keep going.
And he doesnt turn away gifts; his previous trenchcoat was a gift.
The brownies who have done his housekeeping since Summer Knight are a gift from Summer Lady Lily for example.
But there are boundaries.
2&3)This is a fiat-based feature.
We specifically spent points when building our Hell to address this.
I will repeat, this is a fiat-backed feature.
4) This isnt Exalted.
This is ExWoD in the Dresdenverse. Two of the three elements of this are explicitly urban fantasy settings, and Exalted is most often played in much the same manner as a DnD adventure.
If the QM ever chooses to turn this into an empire builder, they'll be sure to let us know, and then those who arent interested in it will move on, or fall back.
But thats not currently what we are playing.
I do think you are so focused on optimization that you fail to take into account that the NPCs are supposed to represent people, with their own agency, motivations and social links.
Hence a situation where you think its reasonable for a 18 year old high schooler to tell a 32-year old wizard with responsibilities and commitmnts to go back to school.
===
2) I have family and friends who have done the multiple educational systems thing across different nations.
I know doctors who qualified in Nigeria and taught in the Carribean.
I am reasonably sure that you are wrong about this.
If things worked anyway like you think, SUTRAs would still be trying to figure out the local infosphere, as opposed to being the apex predators of their chunk of the Internet.
===
3) No, I am reasonably sure thats just implausible.
===
4) I dont think you are grokking the scales involved in the Hell you created.
Modern Earth has around 8 million fulltime scientists/researchers, representing 0.1% of the global population, and a much higher percentage of the First World, where those scientists are concentrated.
Sanctuary likely has a higher percentage, just by virtue of not having >50% of the world in Third World conditions.
We can hoover up all that data and dump it on a scientific community that measures in the millions or tens of millions, and an amateur/part-time community several times that. Or we can send several hundred people to go to university, fighting for places in the outside world with people who actually need the education and credentials.
5) Sanctuary is no more a hermit kingdom than Earth is. Its a world, with everything that implies.
For someone who pushed for a Sanctuary population in the billions, you arent grokking the implications of a society and population that large on both economic and technological acceleration.
UNESCO figures are that 0.1% of the world population are fulltime researchers and scientists in 2013, of a world population where 40-45% of the global population still works in agriculture. Most of those scientists are concentrated in the First World.
Sanctuary can sustain a larger percentage of its population in research, and the existence of a world government to direct that effort leads to yet more economies of scale, and is at a higher tier of technology to boot.
And thats before the fiat Feature thing.
Hmm.
I wonder how blase everyone has gotten at Molly bouncing attacks off her abs that doing so here in front of her dad doesnt even occasion comment.
Same principle apply with regards to the silver spirits as applied to the sword we looted from the greater akuma.
Until it is either unrecognizable or unfindable, giving either to a mortal pulls aggro on them they cant survive.
We can reforge the akuma sword sufficiently to make it unrecognizable. We cant reforge spirits.
=====
Olivia has a significant family, both a father and others, none of whom arent clued in to the supernatural, and none of whom live in the Chicago area.
If we could reasonably expect Lasciel et al to ignore them, Id have no issue with it going to her or a Cauldronite.
As is, I dont think the payoff is worth the risk.
If you went to Olivia, or any other Cauldronite, and offered them the mirror with full informed knowledge that possession might draw the hostile attention of a Denarian and its Fallen Angel host?
I would expect anyone who understood what a Denarian is to balk andrun away screaming politely decline.
If you go back and look at the Hell Features we selected, we picked Advanced Technology for a reason, specifically so we wouldnt have to worry about this sort of thing.
It comes off to me as inventing a problem that doesnt exist.
1)That is inaccurate.
Harry has never hesitated to seek appropriate help when he's needed it, as long as there arent other complicating factors.
In Grave Peril he took Michael to Bianca's Ball as backup. In Summer Knight he took the Alphas, a bunch of college students, to war as backup. In Death Masks he asked Shiro to act as his second. In Blood Rites he hires Kincaid, and recruits both Murphy and his teacher/grandfather to help with Mavra. In Dead Beat he called his godmother to ask for advice.
I could keep going.
And he doesnt turn away gifts; his previous trenchcoat was a gift.
The brownies who have done his housekeeping since Summer Knight are a gift from Summer Lady Lily for example.
But there are boundaries.
2&3)This is a fiat-based feature.
We specifically spent points when building our Hell to address this.
I will repeat, this is a fiat-backed feature.
4) This isnt Exalted.
This is ExWoD in the Dresdenverse. Two of the three elements of this are explicitly urban fantasy settings, and Exalted is most often played in much the same manner as a DnD adventure.
If the QM ever chooses to turn this into an empire builder, they'll be sure to let us know, and then those who arent interested in it will move on, or fall back.
But thats not currently what we are playing.
1) Im not strawmanning you.
I do think you are so focused on optimization that you fail to take into account that the NPCs are supposed to represent people, with their own agency, motivations and social links.
Hence a situation where you think its reasonable for a 18 year old high schooler to tell a 32-year old wizard with responsibilities and commitmnts to go back to school.
===
2) I have family and friends who have done the multiple educational systems thing across different nations.
I know doctors who qualified in Nigeria and taught in the Carribean.
I am reasonably sure that you are wrong about this.
If things worked anyway like you think, SUTRAs would still be trying to figure out the local infosphere, as opposed to being the apex predators of their chunk of the Internet.
===
3) No, I am reasonably sure thats just implausible.
===
4) I dont think you are grokking the scales involved in the Hell you created.
Modern Earth has around 8 million fulltime scientists/researchers, representing 0.1% of the global population, and a much higher percentage of the First World, where those scientists are concentrated.
Sanctuary likely has a higher percentage, just by virtue of not having >50% of the world in Third World conditions.
We can hoover up all that data and dump it on a scientific community that measures in the millions or tens of millions, and an amateur/part-time community several times that. Or we can send several hundred people to go to university, fighting for places in the outside world with people who actually need the education and credentials.
5) Sanctuary is no more a hermit kingdom than Earth is. Its a world, with everything that implies.
For someone who pushed for a Sanctuary population in the billions, you arent grokking the implications of a society and population that large on both economic and technological acceleration.
UNESCO figures are that 0.1% of the world population are fulltime researchers and scientists in 2013, of a world population where 40-45% of the global population still works in agriculture. Most of those scientists are concentrated in the First World.
Sanctuary can sustain a larger percentage of its population in research, and the existence of a world government to direct that effort leads to yet more economies of scale, and is at a higher tier of technology to boot.
And thats before the fiat Feature thing.
COMMENTARY
Hmm.
I wonder how blase everyone has gotten at Molly bouncing attacks off her abs that doing so here in front of her dad doesnt even occasion comment.
Same principle apply with regards to the silver spirits as applied to the sword we looted from the greater akuma.
Until it is either unrecognizable or unfindable, giving either to a mortal pulls aggro on them they cant survive.
We can reforge the akuma sword sufficiently to make it unrecognizable. We cant reforge spirits.
=====
Not when we just saw Lasciel go after Father Murphy's sister in this particular story thread.
Olivia has a significant family, both a father and others, none of whom arent clued in to the supernatural, and none of whom live in the Chicago area.
If we could reasonably expect Lasciel et al to ignore them, Id have no issue with it going to her or a Cauldronite.
As is, I dont think the payoff is worth the risk.
If you went to Olivia, or any other Cauldronite, and offered them the mirror with full informed knowledge that possession might draw the hostile attention of a Denarian and its Fallen Angel host?
I would expect anyone who understood what a Denarian is to balk and
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Michael has seen Molly bounce bullets with her abs and fight Iku Turso (the first time). Doing the same to a somewhat sharp magic mirror is pretty normal
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
Yeah; Constance Bushnell, master Blampire in the "Its My Birthday Too" short story.
But according to the Timeline on Butcher's website, that plotline is not this year:
Year 8 should be in 2008. So next year
My understanding is that he got reverse-summoned out by a confederate.
Someone with serious mojo.
Just noting how quickly its become something they've become accustomed to
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
Could we potentially convince them to stay with Molly in the mortal world? If they can fit in a small enough physical piece of silver for use to carry around then they could be a very helpful point of leverage for the crown depending on their native powers.
A somewhat common issue we've had is learning something interesting about a subject who isn't actually present in the scene or connected to it by anything firmer than the discussion itself. Being able to have a specialist pull stuff up for us to use questions on would be great.
Really we should probably learn some more info magic ourselves too; even if it's normally bad what we primarily need is to be able to fish for foci.
Could we potentially convince them to stay with Molly in the mortal world? If they can fit in a small enough physical piece of silver for use to carry around then they could be a very helpful point of leverage for the crown depending on their native powers.
A somewhat common issue we've had is learning something interesting about a subject who isn't actually present in the scene or connected to it by anything firmer than the discussion itself. Being able to have a specialist pull stuff up for us to use questions on would be great.
Really we should probably learn some more info magic ourselves too; even if it's normally bad what we primarily need is to be able to fish for foci.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with Demonreach.
We cannot expect Lasciel or other Denarians to ignore Olivia, and to a lesser extent other Cauldronists anyway, mirror or no mirror. Giving it to Olivia does not create additional danger.
[X] Try to convince them to come to Sanctuary (Charisma Etiquette 7 Successes Necessary)
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x]Null
This is actually an idea worth exploring.
Send them to Sanctuary for several weeks/months, then ask them if they are willing to move back to Last Station so that Molly/Harry/anyone with authority can use them as a focus/instrument for scrying.
Of course, Im an advocate for learning Divination 1 anyway as a priority.
Nicodemus and the Denarians came to Chicago in Death Masks, Small Favor and Skin Game.
Additionally, in Dead Beat Quintus Cassius comes to town sans Sariel, and in Changes, either Lasciel or Anduriel shows up to whisper in Harry's ear while he's paralyzed.
In each of those times, the Denarians left Dresden's lesser allies alone.
Thomas Raith, Murphy, the Alphas....none of them came under attack or even harassment despite their status as known associates and allies of Dresden.
If you manage to stay below the threshold of importance, if you manage to not make yourself a personal affront, there is a good chance they will ignore you outside of an active combat situation.
That chance drops if you are walking around with a trophy signifying the foiling of one of their plots, drawing their attention.
So like I said, I dont think the risk is worth the payoff.
I dont think any Cauldronite, or Olivia, would consider the risk worth the payoff either.
The argument can possibly be made about an average member of the order of Cauldron, and even then giving them the spirit mirror does not increase thr likelihood of a Denarian going after them (why would it?), but not about Olivia, who is a so far unique existence, and our circle member. If they are going to bother with her, which is plausible, her having this mirror wouldn't change their calculus one way or another.
And the mirror is useful to her.