Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

If we can extricate ourselves, we should.
Of course. I'm just saying that if we simply choose the "[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu" option without some sort of vision on exactly how to resolve the civil war then our efforts will fail, same as before. We must take other factions into account, not just our needs. Remember, we're under explicit orders to "support the Chambrestrong Dynasty in maintaining rightful control over their system."
And sometimes, democracy is birthed at the point of a missile.
Sure, but again, we've got to work for it. So far there is no in-game reason for us to want to support democracy, we're one of the fundamental parts of the existing system and we benefit from it. We've got some idealists, such as your character, but it's not the prevalent force within the Navy.
 
Last edited:
O, in that case, the choice is indeed clear:

[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu.
[X] The 2,000 ton Marine Landing Ship
-[X] Alternatively, 2K multi-mission ship.
 
[ ] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu.
[ ] The 2,000 ton Marine Landing Ship

This is all way to heated for a forum game. Some of you guys need to take a chill pill. I for one am in favor for us overthrowing the oligarchy and becoming our own Junta, I don't really care how we end up doing it either.
 
Last edited:
[X] OPLAN: Hands Across The Water
-[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
-[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu

I still do not see the appeal for the Marine Landing Ship. What would we actually be using it for? What is the appeal?
 
I think it's time to call on the HSWS Intelligence Branch.

[X] Operation Field Effect
-[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
-[X] Other - Write-in: Provide secret orders to the commanding officer of the next Interstellar Cruiser cycled into S'Taxu. Transmit a narrow-beam communique to S'Taxu-8 requesting the PMC provide further evidence for their claims, reply to be issued by their prototype jump vessel. Use the ongoing diplomatic missions to the Chambrestrong Dynasty to insert a trained military intelligence officer. Their task is to independently investigate for evidence of war crimes.
 
Last edited:
[X] Operation Field Effect

Good idea! However, remember that our humans look different because of exposure to high gravity. Plus, we haven't made an embassy there, so we've got very few people there, which means our agent is going to be under observation.
 
Of course. I'm just saying that if we simply choose the "[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu" option without some sort of vision on exactly how to resolve the civil war then our efforts will fail, same as before. We must take other factions into account, not just our needs. Remember, we're under explicit orders to "support the Chambrestrong Dynasty in maintaining rightful control over their system."

If you want to resolve the situation in favor of the Dynasty, the clear option to do so was and is to prosecute a campaign against the Junta as the only serious, long-term threat to their control. It has been lying on the table this whole time and you haven't picked it up and we have not been ordered to pick it up. Money where your mouth is time.

[X] OPLAN: Hands Across The Water
-[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
-[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu
 
If you want to resolve the situation in favor of the Dynasty, the clear option to do so was and is to prosecute a campaign against the Junta as the only serious, long-term threat to their control. It has been lying on the table this whole time and you haven't picked it up and we have not been ordered to pick it up. Money where your mouth is time.
Indeed, that option is still there, but it's not going to be picked until other casualty-less options are exhausted, same as the last time.
 
Last edited:
Indeed, that option is still there, but it's not going to be picked until other casualty-less options are exhausted, same as the last time.

Hey, you wanted to start with what might be generously described as quarter-measures. Only one group in this system, even counting the Dynasty, has the ability to contest our space forces; only one can actually do something to actively prevent our intervention as we please.

If you wanted to go the full imperialism, you should have committed to it with your first plan.
 
[X] OPLAN: Hands Across The Water
-[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
-[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu
 
[X] OPLAN: Hands Across The Water
-[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
-[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu
 
One problem is that the junta haven't made any claims to us (directly), so if we ask them "prove your stuff" there is the potential they will be like "uh, what?"

Better to just push for open peace negotiations I think.
 
3-4: Peace in our Time
Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Jul 27, 2024 at 6:43 AM, finished with 42 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu.
    [X] OPLAN: Hands Across The Water
    -[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
    -[X] We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu.
    [X] Operation Field Effect
    [X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
    [X] The 2,000 ton Marine Landing Ship
    [X] Operation Field Effect
    -[X] The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
    -[X] Other - Write-in: Provide secret orders to the commanding officer of the next Interstellar Cruiser cycled into S'Taxu. Transmit a narrow-beam communique to S'Taxu-8 requesting the PMC provide further evidence for their claims, reply to be issued by their prototype jump vessel. Use the ongoing diplomatic missions to the Chambrestrong Dynasty to insert a trained military intelligence officer. Their task is to independently investigate for evidence of war crimes.


Which of the two Expeditionary Destroyers is more appropriate for a full design? The 3,000+ ton Multi-Mission Vessel.
What is the position of the Navy on this matter? We should push for peace talks in S'Taxu.



Multi-Mission, Multi-Stage
Several designs are submitted as part of the work to finally decide what the Navy is actually going to do next. The first is the so-called 'Interstellar Monitor':

Six-thousand tons of the most dangerous arms and armour available to a modern warship, the IM would be the first and last word in combat. It is hoped that such a focused design would be more than capable of arriving in a system and signalling the death knell of any that would oppose it. Twelve principal particle beam cannons would be backed by eight smaller but hardly less deadly particle cannons which, in turn, are backed twelve barbettes. The sheer quantity of hyper-accelerated protons that the ship would be able to put out would put any other ship thus far built by Home to shame. It would be an executioner that can (slowly) fly between systems, its crew of 164 protected behind thick armour and thicker bulkheads.

Fundamentally this is a conservative perspective on the future of interstellar warfare. It is slow but crushing, ponderous but violent in the extreme. It would even be capable of (limited) boarding operations conducted by the marine platoon carried aboard which could be delivered by one of the ships two shuttles. The price point is demonstrative of its capabilities, with a single one of these ships costing three-billion credits and requiring some two and a half years to build.

Meanwhile, the smaller 'Multi-Mission Vehicle' is a 3,000 ton capital ship that crams as much diverse equipment into as small a hull as possible, focusing on torpedoes and marine actions over the hammer blow of the particle cannon. It has a maximum range of four jumps, though this is only achieved by fitting external drop tanks for two of those four. It has an internal magazine of 132 torpedoes which can be adapted for any mission profile simply by changing them out for different variants. This will hopefully allow the ship to operate far longer into the future than otherwise.

However these capabilities come at a price - The ship is not particularly fast in real space, it is not particularly heavily armoured and it is not particularly well armed, but it is broadly capable of a vast array of mission. It will also be completed far sooner than the Interstellar Monitor, with a construction time of around two years.

Which of the above ship designs would the Navy like to consider building:
[ ] The 6,000 ton Interstellar Monitor
[ ] The 3,000 ton Multi-Mission Vehicle



Proffering Peace
If peace is to be offered to S'taxu, a peace must be reasonable, actionable and enforceable. All sides involved in negotiations will certainly have their own demands and many of them will be entirely unreasonable. It is important that the Navy brings a course of action to the table, endorsed by the government of Home. The first question, however, is where that table will be;
Where will negotiations take place?
[ ] One a neutral planet or asteroid in the S'Taxu system, guarded by Home ships.
[ ] Aboard a Home ship in the S'Taxu system, modified to bear a set of conference rooms for the duration.
[ ] In the Home system, with representatives of the various S'Taxu factions transported by Home ships.
[ ] In a neutral, empty patch of deep space where no-one holds any claims.
[ ] Other - Write-in.
Who will be invited to negotiations? - Choose as many as you are willing.
[ ] The Chambrestrong Dynasty
[ ] The People's Military Council
[ ] The Democratic Republic of Cassalon
[ ] The Xyphon Freedom League
[ ] The Democratic Peoples Council of Xyphon
[ ] Freedom! Strength! Unity! (a third split-off group of Xyphon Federation survivors)
[ ] The Daughters of the People
[ ] The Dictatorship of Xyri
[ ] Others - Write-in.
 
As much as I would like to say "sure host it in S'taxu, we'll guard it" we are no longer in a position to play third party arbitrator because we've stuck our foot in it and are now a belligerent. Might send message that we're dictating terms.

Maybe a neutral S'taxu planetoid with a single Home and a single junta ship providing security? Or some variation thereof.

I say we invite everyone. See what we can cobble together.
 
Hmmm… The choice of location mostly impacts who can consult with whom faster. We want our Council to be flexible, so it's likely better to have the talks conducted in our system. As for the number of participants, the smaller the more manageable the deal becomes. I'd prefer no more than 3 guests. The Chambrestrong Dynasty and the Junta are given. I'm tempted to invite Xyri as well, because that way we could attempt to turn it into some sort of 3-system security agreement. The alternative is inviting the The Xyphon Freedom League, but they currently don't hold any cards that would allow them to push their agenda, it'd be better for them if their interests were represented by their allies, the Junta.

[X] The 6,000 ton Interstellar Monitor
[X] In the Home system, with representatives of the various S'Taxu factions transported by Home ships.
[X] The Chambrestrong Dynasty
[X] The People's Military Council
[X] The Dictatorship of Xyri
 
[X] The 6,000 ton Interstellar Monitor
[X] In the Home system, with representatives of the various S'Taxu factions transported by Home ships.
[X] The Chambrestrong Dynasty
[X] The People's Military Council
[X] The Dictatorship of Xyri
 
The Xyphons do have the most recent grudges, having been on the frontline of the unpleasantness. Better to get any accusations direct from the horse's mouth instead of second hand junta claims. Of course the partisans have a decent chance of only attending to make a circus of things, but also the most direct knowledge of how the dynasts conduct their war.
And if nothing else it's rude to hold peace negotiations without inviting the people with the most to lose, even if they're not the most significant belligerents.

Xyri might be good as a third party. They have no idea who any of the bemedalled idiots in the room are and impeccable havent-shot-anybody-yet credentials. Though they'd probably want something to bail us out of our mess.

A question about droptanks: if ship power and fuel needs are directly tied to displacement, how does that work with external drop tanks? Just stretch the tanks until the extra fuel makes up for the cost of stretching the drive envelope wider to fit them?
 
A question about droptanks: if ship power and fuel needs are directly tied to displacement, how does that work with external drop tanks? Just stretch the tanks until the extra fuel makes up for the cost of stretching the drive envelope wider to fit them?
So, the way it works is that the drop tank is used up and dumped at the moment of jump. You don't need to account for the tonnage of the in use tank. If you're carrying any through jump for a future jump (as the 4-j range capability requires) you do need to account for that.
 
@4WheelSword BTW, what's Ortillery? I can see the Mutli-Mission Vehicle has it on board.

I see that drop tanks are becoming a popular element of design in the Navy. Still, using them in the Multi-Role Vehicle makes it so that the design will grow obsolete faster than the standard 4-jump design. It'd be harder for it to become the workhorse of the fleet. It has Manouvre-3, which means it can't keep up with Interstellar Cruisers or Interstellar Monitors in combat. Both of them have Manouvre-4 engines. As the main proponent of the monitor, I'd recommend doing the Monitors first and doing the multi-roles later, so we can build them bigger and more mobile.
 
Back
Top