What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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Carrier Battle Group Focus - Recent battles have proven that fragile carriers cannot stand alone when capital ships clash, and that current doctrine focuses insufficiently on providing proper close range protection and screens for long range carriers in favor of increasing the speed of ships that are insufficiently mobile to dodge raiders the likes of the Flyssa class. This doctrine is focused on properly escorting the Federations long ranged sword, their carriers, with specialized large combat ships equipped with powerful, accurate lance batteries and enough armor to if necessary block attacks on the carriers with their hulls.
List of effects:
(Armor and Shields are treated as one step cheaper for non-carrier classes.
All Ships classified as Carriers (2+ Hangars) treat [Armor] as one step more costly
Lances & other long-range weaponry DP penalties are removed.
Discounts do not reduce DP cost below 1)

An example, dunno if it works.
 
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Presumably, when we make the doctrine change it will change the DP cost of our current vessel designs and we will need to redesign them before producing more if they end up with DP overcosts. This is important so I guess I should make sure @HeroCooky is that correct?
No, that would be incorrect. You can still produce old vessels, but new ones require to be Doctrine compliant.
@HeroCooky Do you want to handle 'approving' each option, so people don't write something ridiculous?
Considering I'll be asleep/at work for...most/the majority of the vote, that would be impractible. I'll trust that people keep things reasonable.

On that note, I would shorten the Upsides/Downsides to be more "vibe I am going for" rather than "hard numbers/directions."
An example, dunno if it works.
The vibe would work.
 
[] Crusader Fleet Carrier Focus - A Doctrine that follows the reasoning of using your strengths instead of trying to overcome your weaknesses. As such, the Glimmering Federation will focus on creating a swarm of fighters and bombers before their fleet as the primary weapon of the Star Child's conquest, each equipped to the best abilities of the Federation and all fielded by the best of the best.

As the Federation has expanded and matured, we have learned that the Galaxy is full of terrors and we must be both vigilant guardians for our own people and benevolent liberators for the oppressed, Human and Xeno alike. Due to this, our ships have specialized for their roles in combat, with front-liners pinning down enemy fleets in close-medium range while Carriers and escorts provide long range firepower in the backline.

However, this comes at the cost of equipment prioritization, and Supply, Manufactoriums and non-combat equipment suffer from a lack of attention and materials.
(All Light Cruiser+ Class Ships must carry at least one Hangar-related Weapon.
All Ships classified as Carriers (2+ Hangars) treat [Armor] as one step more costly.
Acceleration and Shields are treated as one step cheaper for all classes.
Discounts do not reduce DP cost below 1.)

- This is trying for general vibes rather than picking and choosing benefit/malus. Hopefully Lances and Autoloaders at least lose their malus to neutral or reduced cost, while non-combat take a malus. Ideally missiles get a cost reduction, other weapon/defense equipment behind that. Carrier/strikecraft and mobility benefits don't change or get better. Ramming weapons/equip would be a good malus to take, tried a line to set up that we avoid melee.

We might need to build some Repair/Resupply Freighters to support our fleets from this change, scouting ships would probably need to be adjusted. Ships overall become more specialized for their role. Might be a bit greedy on limiting what equipment takes a malus.

I'm a bit worried with a long range focus we will end up with a malus to missile equipment or something. We seem to be able to change this with a free action but alternative choice:
[] The think-tanks of the Navy had not had their morning coffee, were a bit grumpy about the costs of some equipment and were hasty in wanting to change the highly successful Fleet Doctrine. No change to Expansion Fleet Carrier Focus.

--------------------------------

For context in how we originally came up with the Fleet Doctrine, I found some old posts.

The fighting within Neumidia raged on, yet while the surface of Corcrat gradually turned from a war to the knife to a war that would inevitably be won within the next few years, the fight in the void had turned to a careful probing and scouting of each other, neither side willing to extend. That the Orks were cautious now rang more than a few bells of alarm, Chapter Master Chyron especially urging the Candle Keepers to commit what could be committed to a fight against the Orks and the Mega Rokk as soon as possible, even going so far as to suggest the deployment of a Choir or two in the boarding of the Mega Rokk. And it would inevitably turn into a boarding action, as the addition of three Frigates created by the Lamenters at the tail-end of the decade ensured that the Space Marines currently on the planet would be able to by-pass the shields of the Orks, denying them the most significant advantage they held over the allied fleets in Neumidia.

Once on board, the Lamenters would race to attack the shield generators, engines, power plants, and munition storages, in that order of importance, to ensure that follow-up attacks by the ships of the Neumidians and Candle Keepers would be as effective as possible before they teleported out, leaving behind nothing more than wrecked machines, dead Orks, and several beeping bombs. Then, the Mega Rokk would be easy pickings...or at least, that is what Chapter Master Chyron suggested as the leading plan for dealing with the Orks within the void, something that would entail significant risk to the fleet if they failed to take out the Drilla-Kroozer or Orks surprises showed themselves.

Yet, while the local commanders in Neumidia began to plan and argue, the military personnel within Droma had started to compile and argue about doctrine, logistics, the turns of the wars, and combat actions the Candle Keepers had seen in the last 200 years, alongside the failures both tactically and strategically made. The most obvious and resolved quickly was the glaring lack of long-distance and short-distance artillery within all Units of the Candle Keepers. Obvious when looked at it in the face of planets like Khara and Corcrat, yet a mistake that was easily made by people who had primarily lived aboard a space station where space was not unlimited and on an Ocean World where artillery were ships and not something wheeled about or dragged by soldiers. Some production orders, a swift military reorganization, and training for the units not currently deployed later, and the Candle Keepers' forces were much more deadly.

What took far longer than even the creation of military academies to formalize the teachings of past and current mistakes and excellent ideas were the discussions surrounding the navy and ship procurement. Thus far, ships were built as needed (something which would continue being the Modus Operandi for a long, long, long time) and designed when guns in the void were required now or for a specific task. Take, for example, the Aries. Fast at 7Gs, with a Macro-Cannon and Lance Turret, alongside better armor and armored lifepods, these ships were cheap enough to be churned out in twos every decade and effective enough to threaten the enemy...yet they were not deadly enough to act as more than a distraction to the enemy as heavier ships did the heavy lifting of the fight. Perhaps that is okay, perhaps not, but the fact remains that the Aries is the first design of the Candle Keepers and thus suffers from all the pitfalls and shortcuts taken that such classes often possess. A new version, or a replacement class, is direly needed.

The Sagittarius, too, suffers from being the first of its archetype, as the light missile batteries equipped with missile swarms are potent, but they are potent in close range, the exact opposite range in which an artillery ship should be firing. Rip those out and replace them with hangars or, better yet, Lances, as the vessel is already being supplied with improved lenses, and it will be far better equipped to do its job. On the other hand, the Taurus is a fine ship. It does what it needs to do and nothing more. No fancy tricks, just ferrying troops and being able to aid them with ortillery and ASSF support.

'Overall, it seems that, though the Taurus was spot-on in its role and focus, there was an overall lack of vision and concentration when making these classes,' as one engineer would describe the Aries and Sagittarius shortly before being clocked in the head by a thrown can of water, an enraged shipbuilder demanding that they do better then.

And while things turned into a brawl with a screaming match attached, the end of it resulted in people generally accepting that a mission statement was required for the navy, a doctrine under which it would operate, one cognizant of their immediate, medium, and long-term goals within the sector, as well as the various foes they could expect and not expect to find and fight, so that the ships being built and designed would be created not by use-cases appearing, but by roles being filled out and expanded as needed.

The Candle Keepers already had a Skirmisher, a Troop Transport, and an Artillery Ship, but what about Scouts? Heavy Brawlers? Boarding Craft? Would there be a focus on Ships of the Lines or on hangars? Survival, or Killing Potential?

What was the fleet being built?
[] Candle Keeper Fleet Doctrine of 217.M42

(What is your focus when building ships, what are you willing to sacrifice and which things will you not compromise on? What will Candle Keeper Fleets be expected to actually do once your current crisis is over? Expansion? Exploration? Defense? Extermination?
Warning! Choosing a focus will give you DP Discounts on weapons/equipment/sections of a ship, but also apply fines to its opposites.)
-[] We are fine as is.
(Do not engage with any doctrine beyond what is needed. No DP changes.)

AN: No dig from me by the way. Just what I think would be the most obvious in-universe detraction-points for the ships made.
Threadmark that started the doctrine vote and discussion.

Our Tech Level is great, the problem is that our dudes are absolute garbage at making ships. I'm all for a Carrier based "Modern Naval War" style paradigm myself, where we have light destroyers/frigates that screen for our heavy frigates that exist to project power with. Everyone else in 40K still works on WW2 naval doctrine, and we know the Imperium specifically has a Doctrinal Problem with Carriers (Namely: That Carriers are for nerds and real men use Big Gun warships).

Honestly, I think I'm going to formalize that.

[X] Plan: Fleet Carrier Doctrine
--[X] Ultimately, we cannot afford to engage in warfare with other significant powers on a ton-to-ton basis, we will never be able to match their capacity to simply pour greater quantities of industry into the forges of war, using whatever means they are--inherited legacies, genetic memory, or sheer industrial mass. As such, our only hope to endure in the long run is to strike in a fashion that our foes cannot easily react to. The success of the Taurus-class despite having only a single vessel has shown that a well-equipped, elite strike wing can punch well above its on-paper weight class, especially with our understanding of the secrets of the machine and the faith of our crews. This is an advantage that should be cultivated whenever possible for the foreseeable future, even if we must make sacrifices in armor strength to achieve this goals. (STRENGTH: Strike Fighter Related Modules and Weapons are discounted. WEAKNESS: Vessels that are equipped for use as Carriers find it difficult to add additional armor, all non-Escort class hulls must have at least one proper Strike Fighter related Weapon)
--[X] The fleet of the Candle Keepers is a force of Liberation, to bring the Star Child's light to those who toil under the weight of wicked forces and bring them low before they can bring harm to the innocent. [EXPLORATION/EXPANSION Doctrine, Power Projection in general rather than getting stuck in on the homefront and hoping for the best]

I've examined it and discovered that nobody in 40K really uses Strike Craft as a mainstay of their doctrine. Eldar have very good Strike Craft but are rarely deployed in great numbers due to how casualty averse they are (Especially when Eldar Doctrine boils down to "Zoom in on the other guy from stealth, hit them with an entire half-hour's worth of firepower in a single salvo, then do a 180 turn on a dime and zoom away before they can orient their guns back towards you, repeat until Total Victory--if the other side manages to spoil you, Just Fucking Die because your ships are made of cardboard and crumple on the slightest amount of actual firepower.) The Imperium can do good Strike Craft but generally downplay it as a major point of doctrine because it's on the losing end of a long running debate among its admiralty, and besides that, strike craft are expensive and the Imperium generally isn't willing to put in more than the bare minimum of training for someone who might just die if anything goes wrong. The Tau are ultimately a small power in the grand scheme of things (And even then, they trend towards having fast moving ships with heavy guns and use strike craft as screens more than anything else, outside the Mantas which are extremely expensive), and the Orks... Well, they can do Strike Craft and do--but as we've seen, they're not great at it and mostly get by in Sheer Numbers.

It's a niche that we can exploit, and as long as we aren't dumb about it, we can probably leverage it well. The Taurus has shown that our Strike Fighters are serious business after all, and it lets our general tech advantage be more telling simply because we can give our dudes the equipment they need to excel in that field, without running into the Problems of Scale that our Warships apparently do.

That aside, the general thrust of this is "Escorts as screening elements (Destroyers/Frigates), with our proper Capital Ships all being capable of at least servicing a strike-wing, ranging from a full out Fleet Carrier that does nothing else, to a more Battlestar-type that's willing to pay the added expense to be tough and well armored while still holding a fearsome strike wing.

That this is also--broadly--the paradigm that's used in the Gundam franchise is just a coincidence >_>

Even with that aside, we're still not going to be as frail as the Eldar are if something can pin us down. Our ships are actually made to win rather than assume Bad Things don't happen to us. Taking a few hits is unavoidable even if you can keep your distance. The point is not taking more than you can handle.
Alectai's winning doctrine post.

@HeroCooky what DP effect would a Expansion or Expeditionary focus have for our ship designs?
Engines, Life Support, Shields, and On-Board Manufacturing would be discounted, high-tech equipment like Teleportariums and Lances would cost more.
QM on Expansion focus costs/benefits.

I don't think we do:
Huh, I think I had tried making a ram ship and misremembered why I was annoyed by action cost, my bad. Thanks for the correction.

Aaaand thats way more time than I wanted to put in, cya at the vote.
 
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So let's list out the various options that have been written out so far - @HeroCooky I don't know if you have time, but if you could quickly summarize the mechanical effects of each of the four options below that would be great. That way we actually know what we're voting for. Apologies if I make any mistakes with anybody's proposal, I'm trying to standardize formatting here.

[] Carrier Battle Group Focus - Recent battles have proven that fragile carriers cannot stand alone when capital ships clash, and that current doctrine focuses insufficiently on providing proper close range protection and screens for long range carriers in favor of increasing the speed of ships that are insufficiently mobile to dodge raiders the likes of the Flyssa class. This doctrine is focused on properly escorting the Federations long ranged sword, their carriers, with specialized large combat ships equipped with powerful, accurate lance batteries and enough armor to if necessary block attacks on the carriers with their hulls.

[] Crusader Fleet Carrier Focus - As the Federation has expanded and matured, we have learned that the Galaxy is full of terrors and we must be both vigilant guardians for our own people and benevolent liberators for the oppressed, Human and Xeno alike. Due to this, our ships have specialized for their roles in combat, with front-liners pinning down enemy fleets in close-medium range while Carriers and escorts provide long range firepower in the backline. However, this comes at the cost of equipment prioritization, and Supply, Manufactoriums and non-combat equipment suffer from a lack of attention and materials.

[] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.

[] Skirmish Carrier Focus - A doctrine that follows the reasoning of exploiting the enemies' weakness without diverging too far our own strengths. As such, the Glimmering Federation's new constructions will focus on long-range combat, using strike-craft and other long-range weaponry to exact a heavy toll upon the enemy before the battle-lines close, and maintaining superior speed and maneuverability to control the range. However, this focus on maneuverability comes at the cost of equipment geared towards ramming and similar structural reinforcement.

Edit, adding new ones:
[] Barrage Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to support the Federation's main strength of carrier attacks, by officially endorsing the long standing but unofficial practice of supplementing them with large scale missile support. Production lines for sufficient weaponry are prioritized over heavy armoring and close in boarding/ramming equipment.

[] Cutting Edge Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to further expand on the Federation technological advantages, the Cutting Edge focus aims to endorse the current practice of heavily focusing ship designs on specific weapons, and the advanced equipment needed to support them, rather than sheer weight of tubes.
 
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[] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
I like this on.
 
Barrage Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to support the Federation's main strength of carrier attacks, by officially endorsing the long standing but unofficial practice of supplementing them with large scale missile support. Production lines for sufficient weaponry are prioritized over heavy armoring and close in boarding/ramming equipment.

(In essence, trading armor/ramming for a missile boon, given how often we use that)

Cutting Edge Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to further expand on the Federation technological advantages, the Cutting Edge focus aims to endorse the current practice of heavily focusing ship designs on specific weapons, and the advanced equipment needed to support them, rather than sheer weight of tubes.

(Bit of a weirder one, this would make more weapons more expensive, at the benefit of buying equipment for those weapons cheaper.
 
I'm fine with either of these. To vote, you should copy-paste the whole block of the one you like and make sure to add the [] There was an error in the wording... part to the front, since technically that's the top-level vote.

[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Skirmish Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that follows the reasoning of exploiting the enemies' weakness without diverging too far our own strengths. As such, the Glimmering Federation's new constructions will focus on long-range combat, using strike-craft and other long-range weaponry to exact a heavy toll upon the enemy before the battle-lines close, and maintaining superior speed and maneuverability to control the range. However, this focus on maneuverability comes at the cost of equipment geared towards ramming and similar specialized structural reinforcement.

[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
 
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[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.


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Hard vote with so much uncertainy about how changes will go. Thanks Neablis for consolidating the plans. I think we should be able to easily hit the undo button if something goes wonky. I'll probably vote for other plans too.

There was an error in the wording
Crusader Fleet Carrier Focus - A Doctrine that follows the reasoning of using your strengths instead of trying to overcome your weaknesses. As such, the Glimmering Federation will focus on creating a swarm of fighters and bombers before their fleet as the primary weapon of the Star Child's conquest, each equipped to the best abilities of the Federation and all fielded by the best of the best.

As the Federation has expanded and matured, we have learned that the Galaxy is full of terrors and we must be both vigilant guardians for our own people and benevolent liberators for the oppressed, Human and Xeno alike. Due to this, our ships have specialized for their roles in combat, with front-liners pinning down enemy fleets in close-medium range while Carriers and escorts provide long range firepower in the backline.

However, this comes at the cost of equipment prioritization, and Supply, Manufactoriums and non-combat equipment suffer from a lack of attention and materials.
(All Light Cruiser+ Class Ships must carry at least one Hangar-related Weapon.
All Ships classified as Carriers (2+ Hangars) treat [Armor] as one step more costly.
Acceleration and Shields are treated as one step cheaper for all classes.
Discounts do not reduce DP cost below 1.)

- Trying for general vibes and not expecting to perfectly pick benefit/malus. Hopefully Lances and Autoloaders at least lose their malus to neutral or reduced cost, while non-combat take a malus. Ideally missiles get a cost reduction, other weapon/defense equipment behind that. Carrier/strikecraft and mobility benefits don't change or get better. Ramming weapons/equip would be a good malus to take, tried a line to set up that we avoid melee.

We might need to build some Repair/Resupply Freighters to support our fleets from this change, scouting ships would probably need to be adjusted. Ships overall become more specialized for their role.

Barrage Carrier Focus
Battle Fleet Carrier Focus


I like both of these too.
Edit changed votes
 
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[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
 
All prow enhancements and specific location armoring (armored bridge) are (1-2) DP more costly.
I just really hope this won't affect our Advanced Alloying and Lattice Hulls. That would probably be more painful than the detriment on Autoloaders and Pure Lenses
Not really, mostly pet peeves.
Speaking of which, is there any way that we could possibly help there be less strain on the generators of the Sagittarius?
Barrage Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to support the Federation's main strength of carrier attacks, by officially endorsing the long standing but unofficial practice of supplementing them with large scale missile support. Production lines for sufficient weaponry are prioritized over heavy armoring and close in boarding/ramming equipment.
Honestly, I think I like this a bit more than the Lance focus. We can make our missiles do a whole lot of awesome stuff and are a great supplement for our carrier focus. While close-range, we do help mitigate that through our speed and shields.

[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Barrage Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that seeks to support the Federation's main strength of carrier attacks, by officially endorsing the long standing but unofficial practice of supplementing them with large scale missile support. Production lines for sufficient weaponry are prioritized over heavy armoring and close in boarding/ramming equipment.
 
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[x] Carrier Battle Group Focus - Recent battles have proven that fragile carriers cannot stand alone when capital ships clash, and that current doctrine focuses insufficiently on providing proper close range protection and screens for long range carriers in favor of increasing the speed of ships that are insufficiently mobile to dodge raiders the likes of the Flyssa class. This doctrine is focused on properly escorting the Federations long ranged sword, their carriers, with specialized large combat ships equipped with powerful, accurate lance batteries and enough armor to if necessary block attacks on the carriers with their hulls.
 
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
 
[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Battle Fleet Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
 
[] [General] Voxx Primus Population Crisis Preparations
-[] Habitat Stations

(Gain: +1 Void Industry every three Actions, enough living space for ~12 Billion people per Action.)
yah given everything going on I don't think spending an action a turn here would be too bad considering we only have Howling Gate to move people to besides our world and that 50 billion will feel up fast. Wasn't be bad just to spend a few actions there over the coming turns.

It will still take around 9 more turns before the worlds we seeded will get around to being livable.

1. Uuuh...WW1 Trench Warfare In WW2 Moscow levels of churn? You suffered around ~28 SAGs worth of casualties this Turn. And the no-Actions is because I couldn't come up with any. People can use the Write-In Action to do that tho.
2. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. But every NN shot at a station is one less shot at your fleets.
3. As long as you put Actions/Ships into a changed SBG (Main Fleet) or a Task Fleet (purpose made) you can go infinite kinds.
1. OUCH, that is painful and a image there. I'm guessing that initial 8 SAG of native Voxxians are depleted now aren't they? how is the damage being spread out here?
2. See? Rare and and they will be focused on the 'Battleships' or heavy cruisers. I think the stations with our SBG's will be enough to hold the line.
3. Fair enough, just gonna be hard to keep track of.

Naturally. And nope.
Good to hear and Thank the star child, cause I don't want to be spending choirs like that.

1. The Sagitarrius-Secundus performs as expected, if with significant strain on its generators when in combat. Downtime for maintenance will be an ongoing issue for the class. The Lupus-Secundus has performed adequately for its roles. Nothing outstanding, but also little to complain about.
2. :>
3. Beyond rock-bottom for those taken prisoner, before slowly rising to "could be worse? Hopefully won't be..." Bad for those who chose surrender, before slowly rising to "...we get three meals a day?" Phantom can be summed up as "Vietcong With Lasgun Bullpups." Army/Fleet morale are steady and cocky in order.
4. FTL-Communication via tech is not a thing. So no diplomacy/propaganda.
5. Literally 0.
1. Ahh, that would make sense and wow, looking at it I was sure we had some kind of power booster/enhanced power generation but that was just supply generation. Could we find some way to boost reactor output in some way? I know we can try to do via write-in but how do we go about it? just do a write-in to look for some way to boost output of the generators?
2. Ah the 'not telling, you should try it out and find out'. QM can we make a department or something to test out designs we make before we make it a full production run? like doing that action or doing it would make a few ships, test them out or use the equipment as we wanted to try before making it into a full on ship design and have to chuck it away if it proves self-sabotaging?
3. Yah, that's to be expected. Normally being taken alive is a bad thing for 40k so the fact we aren't doing anything bad would be an improvement and given these are hivers... yah three meals a day is a damn good deal. Oh great, that level of determined resistance, fair enough as we didn't do a full ground invasion yet with full forces, most of that is tied up on Voxx Primus and Secundus. They'll get their due soon.
4. Right, isn't that how the setting is? So unless we doing Vox-broadcasts and the like I don't think we can unless we're already in system.
5. that's to be expected. Chaos has an annoying habit of popping up, recking shit, and leaving via rituals to stay ahead and never giving a chance for some to bring their might down. Only chance we can get Caine is using whatever forces we have in the area at the time to do so, putting together our own version of an Ordos to hunting her down, or look for things that Caine would try to destroy or corrupt and set up traps there.

Without them, you would be looking at 50~70 SAGs for the churn per Turn.
Holy shit, they are carrying hard. I'm guessing because its gamma and below punching up with the large scale and powerful nature of the Songs and Melodies? How would that look like after the Staffs to amplify the Songs and Melodies.

The poisoning went ahead reasonably well, but didn't quite get enough people for more than local advantages.

The Assassination will be covered today.
Damn it! was hoping for more but oh well. how the dice roll and the pieces. So how many Nobles are alive? and how many spires managed to survive that opening bombardment?

Yay!

~9%, ~98%, and ~35%. Note that control = no insurgency happening.
makes sense. Voxx Secundus wasn't gonna take too much to control and looks like the forces there will redeployment to Echish maybe to speed that up?

I'm kinda of surprised for Voxx Primus that its that low, I guess the fighting makes it hard for frontlines that don't have many points to use tunnels or passageways for hits there again. the nightmare of the layout of the hive is the cause of that? or the wastelands don't make up that much of the planet or are not that much easier to control given the nature of it?

Echish is on par considering there hasn't been as much focus there compared to the other and given the morale of the Dutchy forces, we control more land but there are insurgencies happening there. not a problem as we will get to it

Road To Recovery
Kind Hands Upon Unkind Wounds
Healing As One Along
Healing As One Undisturbed
Okay, not bad. We could use more healing songs but real question if we will have the actions to spare to get them once things settle down.

First two song sound like more long term healing after the battle and the other more stabilizing. Though I think the stabilizing song would help a lot more in the long run since it would stop more deaths in the short term by allowing the healers to treat them enough they are out of danger.

other two songs are... honestly not sure. maybe healing everyone equally or at the same pace?

Recovery From The Edge - Protection Health Death
- Looks like an instant healing from death/severe injury song. Like Spare the Dying.

Road To Recovery - Health Compassion Progress
-Post battle/Long term healing

Kind Hands Upon Unkind Wounds - Health Health Compassion Compassion Compassion
-On battlefield healing
pretty much what I get from the names as well. Only way to find one is spending an action on them.

"Falu! Falu! Falu!" Came the shouts of tens of thousands gathered underneath the Gatekeep, that vital piece of military fortification that stopped any attempt from the Underhive of the capital of Primus to rise into the Lower Hive with its massive gates, shields, weapons, and massed garrison of nearly five million troops alone.

"Falu! Falu! Falu!" The crowds continued their chants, the word an ancient curse and blessing both, hoping for the success of those who it was directed at, yet also telling them to go out in a blaze of glory if they failed in their chosen goal.

"FALU! FALU! FALU!" The screams began to rise in noise, the arrival of the Celestial Choirs underneath the baleful eyes of the Gatekeep only allowed due to the amassed shield generators that would keep them safe from the inevitable counter-attack by the Gate's extreme-range artillery. As if to punctuate the wisdom of such, light and explosions began to bloom where coherent light and shells met shields, the latter more than up to keeping the latter away from the dozens of Psykers meticulously checking the arrays and ritual site once again. Even a tiny mistake could be costly, yet they found none.

And almost like one, the shouts of the 'FALU' ceased, leaving behind thundering silence as a staff was raised with light pooling off of its tip.
Oh okay, didn't expect that but good visual and showing of the ritual and how the Melody is done from a ground view. And holy shit, all of that for keeping the underhive out? Not surprised it served dual purpose and that is an insane amount of material and troops for it.

The shields brought there doing work with holding up to that while the ritual is prepped.

And like one in truth, 55 Psykers began to hum, their throats echoing with the eddies of the Warp as sound turned to weapon and tool alike, millions watching the ceremony with bathed breath, hopeful eyes, and tense anticipation.

The humm was replaced by a single note that none present could name, its calling upon forgotten memories so ancient they had never existed like an alien touch upon a soul.

That note stretched out like a rumbling of engines and the thunder of plasma bound within writhing machinery, the sound of turning gears and flowing energy, a memory of ancient days not yet gone so long when the universe was young while the end all things shall be longer away still.
Of course the number being 55 to keep up our obsession with it. And good imagery and word choice here, I'm guessing this is sun given the 'when the universe was young' I hope we don't lose choirs again.

And then everyone felt it.

Awareness upon the Psykers. Something watching. Something judging.

Something agreeing to the humble request.

"SHIELD YOUR EYES!" The call came, five seconds before the event happened, and nearly all who watched in person, for there were always the ignorant and the daredevils, turned away to not be burnt.
Okay either that was the Starchild or something else with that. I wonder if its because that's eleven choirs doing the ritual.

and damn it people! you really can't cure stupidity or recklessness, oh well, should only be a few... hopefully. and something bright like a newborn star or sun?

The shields that stood over the Psykers did not have such luxury.

A beam of molten star shot from the ground of the ritual site against the shields of the Gatekeep, shattering those that had kept its creators safe.

It burned.

It Burned!

Like a divine needle, the stream lapped and hugged against the Gatekeep's shields, Magi of the Mechanicus suddenly desperate to keep the generators that fed them chanting in Binharic Cant even as the needle pushed deeper, deeper, deeper into that field with every passing half-second.

A desperate attempt at feeding the shields saw the Lower Hive's lights flicker out as the generators within its strata began to pump their might into the machines below.

Panic began to settle into commanders as the Middle and Upper Hive had their power cut, the latter's cries of annoyance only outshone by the sheer horror of its inhabitants as the lights of the Upper Spire itself whisked out when the Lady Governor ordered its plasma generators to dedicate themselves to keeping the Gatekeep shielded.

And then, like a bated breath, like a wave at its peak, like an orgasm held back...the Sun of Voxx Primus refused its power to the Choirs.
Honestly great writing for the scene, you did well on this QM. and looks like the force of the Melody was focused at one point and made to push forward on that point, a good use of it and way to break the shields. and Damn it was enough to force all power diverted from all the hive, even the Spire to the generators, annoyingly it worked but we can try again. Still a good show of our psykers since it forced that level of response with power directed to keeping the shield up.

And was that gaze upon the Choirs the Sun of Voxx Primus? really? okay I didn't expect that at all. Not sure if this is a hint to upgrade the Sun Melody or how it shows up when using it.


A fraction of a second passed, and relief began to flood into the minds of the soldiers of the Gatekeep.

A fraction that displaced air required to rush back into the space it had been violently pushed out of, the implosion utterly deafening, its might strong enough that it clawed deep into the main gate and ripped the 20-meter thick, 40-meter tall and 200-meter wide shield to the "civilized" portions of the Hive out of its fittings like crumpled paper, accelerating it fast enough that it sailed for over two kilometers before crashing and skipping over the ground for another one.

The crowd, those who had not stared at the casting of The Sun and were dealing with melted eyeballs, went wild, the shouting and hooting and hollering overpowering even the rumble and quaking of the Hive caused by this action, and the sea of Knights, tanks, IFVs, and infantry surging from their staging grounds against the remaining defenses of the Gatekeep.

The war for the capital of Voxx Primus had begun with one ritual.
I might be confused here but was the reason the shield fell because of pressure difference against the shield and when the Sun Melody lessen there wasn't the push on the shield anymore and with the amount of power directed to it ending up pushing against something that didn't resist? I'm guessing with how the Sun/star was forming and pushing into the shield, it was close enough to damage part of the gate/wall and then the implosion and seriously that is some serious and impressive damage from it. that huge of a hole by ripping out the gate and throwing its fracking two kilometers away. just holy shit.

And I was right, it was the the Sun Melody. and the idiots payed the price for watching a star up close. And after a Display like that? Morale would skyrocket for our forces and a show for the natives, while the Dutchy is cursing out our pskyer bullshit and yelling HAXX. and the image of the assembled forces charging after that is great. Also the fact we are starting to assault the Capital Hive on the lower level only now. Wonder how the other Hives are or why it only started now.

And 7.3 million people would die from this one action alone. Thrice that in the coming week, as the Gatekeep fell, and conscripts were pushed to retake and defend the fortress' and its backlines.

And for those in the know, that was a small price to pay if the diversion this attack offered would allow the teams of Templars currently flooding into the Inner Sanctum of Primus Guard Command to succeed in its mission: kill the General and decapitate their military leadership.
It is a lot and I'm guessing this is military losses from that. High but not a lot compared to the population of the hives.... thrice, so about 22 million? I really hope it was lopsided to the Dutchy's conscripts being the main losses.

OH this is the assassination part, I will say it is a hella of a distraction. Yah the General has showed he is competent and most likely holding the defense of this planet together. He needs to go.


Blood and metal, heated and boiled, the stench of ozone and fired plasma, sweat trickling along your back, hair matting the top of your head as your arms ached and legs yearned to rest.

Ignore them all, swing the sword, move the body, never stop, never cease, for there is grace in speed and death in cessation.

The bodyguards had fallen like wheat before the scythe, though what either was beyond an implement to cut and something that needed to be cut was lost on them, but the corpses piling behind their fast advance wasn't.

Even so, shouldering the plasma rifle and firing two snapshots against the Magi bearing their war-loads and their battle servitors, the advance was not fast enough.
Alright the templars in combat andddd fucking Numbers! I assume they are fully equipped with their gear and there's just that many bodies there to block them. They managed to wipe the Bodyguards but they bought enough time for the general to run. You Know? I think we should do the Experimental and Novel infantry weapons research, might give us more stuff to use or better gear.

Legs pumped harder, a sword flashed, a pistol pressed against a temple, and a scream cut through the din of battle in the Spire.

Like a tide, like a flood, like sand flowing through the cracks of a coffin buried underneath the dunes of their home, the Templars moved through the defenders of one man like water through sieves.

And it was not enough.

Had he known they would come? Undoubtedly. But had he known they would come as anything more than a thing that was done? Had he known dates? Times? Numbers?
So very elite units doing their thing, moving fast and stacking bodies quickly but not enough... MOTHERFRACKER. This General! He is the PoV or named character in a 40k Book. We choose him to assassinate BECAUSE he was competent and holding the defense together but he seems competent enough to foresee this and either set a trap or just get out of dodge. Seriously, he know? or he was good at predicting strikes like this and prepared for it.

Pain lanced through the lungs. Breathing became harder.

The will to kill and fight and live did not relent.

But the mind knew.

It was time to die.

Grenades in one, plasma rifle overloading in the other.

One last attempt. If it failed, retreat for all who could.

Legs moved as blood burned without oxygen and lungs drowned in sanguine ichor.

...

Retreat.
DAMN IT! we failed, we killed bodyguards and skilled valuable troops but didn't get the general. The Templars did their best and went out with a bang using the plasma grenade and rifle. Some managed to get out but we won't be able to attempt this again. Long slog against a competent general.... I think we should invest in the experimental weapons or build more Warpacks or SAG's, this General has shown he is going to drag this out and make it bloodier for us.

After the actions against the Free Duchy within the Voxx Primus, Secundus, and Echis systems, the think-tanks of the Navy saw a need to address concerns regarding the effectiveness of the Federation's Expansion Fleet Carrier Doctrine.

It came as no surprise then that they focused upon two spots of contention that had already seen the internal factions of the Navy come to heated debates; the fact that Lances were far more costly to produce than anything else due to critical components being redirected to strike craft production and that Auto-Loaders remained an expensive piece of equipment.

Thus, they declared that such issues should not happen and that the military-industrial complex must focus on creating more parts for them to be viable on large scales.

Thus decreed, they sent the documents to the Office of Procurement and went on a long lunch.

The Council of Bookkeepers awaited their return in the same hall they had left from and, in their monotone grey voices, told the gathered thinkers that "make this cheaper" is neither a viable mode of economic management, strategic procurement, nor tactical thinking. The Glimmering Federation had only so many resources to dedicate to so many projects, and it could not simply conjure up the required materials because it was decreed.
HAH I love how the beancounters are standing and waiting to hear how we will make them cry. Honestly I would love to get lances cheaper or at least stick them more of them on ships. I wonder if doing the Military Industry would have helped with this or not.



Well, seems like there truly was an error in the wording then. :V

But the second option is to mean that you are now proposing Doctrine changes.
Ahhh, So we needed to come up with our own fair enough and might as well make use of it.

No. You would need to take a penalty to Repair Bays and Supply Generators alongside Advanced Alloying and Lattice Hulls.
ahhhhh, on one hand we really aren't making use of it besides on the frieghters. according to our current Doctrine we should have been making supply ships and mobile dockyards or the likes but we never did. I honestly do like it but at this point since we aren't doing that we should drop it.... only we really can't afford to drop the Advanced Alloying and Lattice Hulls.

There is. Two problems;
1. The Write-In was written in such a way that I read it as "gib cheaper Lances + Auto-Loaders," which after clarification, it wasn.
2.This is a more free-form Write-In vote. Naturally, a lot of discussion will wither due to that. After all, someone (like Neablis) has to come forward and start offering ideas.
Fair enough, we'll see what we got. and we should be able to get autoloaders later on if we can spare the actions.... we really won't.

yah leaving it to others and how they will get things done. Not my field of expertise

Battle Fleet Carrier Focus - A doctrine that seeks to maintain the Federation's strength in its carrier arm while attempting to shore up certain weaknesses. Experience has shown the ability of enemies to launch lightning strikes against the core of the fleet, as such this doctrine focuses on carriers and their close escorts. To allow the fleet carriers to work heavy escorts equipped with lances for pin point accurate, responsive fire is necessary to counter threats such as the Flyssa class ships. Extreme-range voyages are a secondary concern compared to hard battles nearer to home.
All Light Cruiser+ Class Ships must carry at least one Hangar-related Weapon.
All Ships classified as Carriers (2+ Hangars) treat [Armor] as Two steps more costly.
Acceleration and Shields are treated as one step cheaper for all classes.
Remove Malus on Lances and related equipment, Malus on supply and repair equipment. Bonus on targeting equipment (i.e. snapshot).
Discounts do not reduce DP cost below 1.
AHhhhhhh, damn it supply and repair equipment is so good but we don't use it. and we really could use more lances... going for pure combat is fine but given how some things are we might need to starting make points to repair the entire fleet. We managed to continue this push because we took the Ringyards and managed to fix it up. I'm guessing if we did a grand cruiser or the like with having the repair and supply equipment, we would be able to do that on the go or be mobile yards. Again that is a shame to give up but we might change doctrine back to the old one in the future maybe.

And I'm... hesitant for the armor, yes we understand how the carriers and how they are not meant to be heavily armor but damn that a harsh trade.


also after looking at the Military forces
1st Kriegar 'Gorecog' SAG - (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Kriegar Medium Augmetic Legion Assault) - (Veteran)
Go fracking figure it would be the former penal colony that would be the first SAG to reach Veteran status. So we got one to keep track of now.

1st Neumidian SAG - (1st and 2nd Corcrat Heavy Mechanized Assault, 1st and 2nd Budget Arms Light Tanks) - (4/5 to Veterancy)
Also the Merchants being the SAG closest to becoming an veteran at the moment. surprised to see this being the Mechanized and Light tanks.


[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Skirmish Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that follows the reasoning of exploiting the enemies' weakness without diverging too far our own strengths. As such, the Glimmering Federation's new constructions will focus on long-range combat, using strike-craft and other long-range weaponry to exact a heavy toll upon the enemy before the battle-lines close, and maintaining superior speed and maneuverability to control the range. However, this focus on maneuverability comes at the cost of equipment geared towards ramming and similar specialized structural reinforcement.
 
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[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Skirmish Carrier Focus - A doctrine that follows the reasoning of exploiting the enemies' weakness without diverging too far our own strengths. As such, the Glimmering Federation's new constructions will focus on long-range combat, using strike-craft and other long-range weaponry to exact a heavy toll upon the enemy before the battle-lines close, and maintaining superior speed and maneuverability to control the range. However, this focus on maneuverability comes at the cost of equipment geared towards ramming and similar specialized structural reinforcement.
 
It seems that Skirmish and Battle Fleet are in the lead, and I prefer skirmish fleet slightly more, so focusing in on that one.

[X] There was an error in the wording...
-[X] Skirmish Carrier Focus -
A doctrine that follows the reasoning of exploiting the enemies' weakness without diverging too far our own strengths. As such, the Glimmering Federation's new constructions will focus on long-range combat, using strike-craft and other long-range weaponry to exact a heavy toll upon the enemy before the battle-lines close, and maintaining superior speed and maneuverability to control the range. However, this focus on maneuverability comes at the cost of equipment geared towards ramming and similar specialized structural reinforcement.
 
@HeroCooky I don't know if you have time, but if you could quickly summarize the mechanical effects of each of the four options below that would be great.

Carrier Battle Group Focus

Crusader Fleet Carrier Focus

Battle Fleet Carrier Focus

Skirmish Carrier Focus

Barrage Carrier Focus

Cutting Edge Carrier Focus
Carrier Battle Group - HC+ get discount on High Tech Equipment+Weapons (Artillery, Lance, Plasma), penalties on Low Tech Equipment+Weapons. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.

Crusader - Weapons gain X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase per Type of Weapon installed. Reduces mono-weapon type loadout costs by 50%. Can install one weapons one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 3 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.

Battle Fleet Carrier - Remove Acceleration Discount. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers. Remove increased DP cost for Lances.

Skirmish - All Armor and Shield Equipments cost 50% (rounded up) more. Reduces cost of all Prow Lances/Artillery and enhances their effects. Removes DP Penalties of Lances. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers. Increases cost to increase the lenght/width of ships by 100% each step.

Barrage - Reduces the cost of all Missile Equipments by 1 DP. Increade Non-Missile (Hangars excluded) DP costs by 1. All Missile Weapons are now able to be mounted on one Weight Class lower than stated. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.

Cutting Edge - Removes all penalties. Ship classes older than 150 years cannot be built or copied without new Equipment/Weapons being added.
Speaking of which, is there any way that we could possibly help there be less strain on the generators of the Sagittarius?
Mount the Three Prow Lances on a bigger ship. :V
 
Carrier Battle Group - HC+ get discount on High Tech Equipment+Weapons (Artillery, Lance, Plasma), penalties on Low Tech Equipment+Weapons. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.
The next HC would need to swap to plasma cannons but i was planning on that already, and the removal of the Armor penalty will help the carriers
4: Can you tell us more about what equipment is considered low tech?


Crusader - Weapons gain X (Base Cost) × .50 (Rounded Up) DP Cost Increase per Type of Weapon installed. Reduces mono-weapon type loadout costs by 50%. Can install one weapons one Weight Class higher than normal by paying the unchanged DP cost. Removes all Equipment DP cost increases, but adds a 3 DP Flat Tax (applied once) if any equipment is added. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.
We do not build ships with no equipment so all of them will pay the 3DP tax,
@HeroCooky
1: would Anti-Voidcraft Defenses count as a separate weapon for this?
2: would heavy rotary plasma cannons fit on a HC?

Battle Fleet Carrier - Remove Acceleration Discount. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers. Remove increased DP cost for Lances.
This be neutral for Carriers, a loss for all non carriers without lances and depending on the number of lances a boost for ships that have them.

Skirmish - All Armor and Shield Equipments cost 50% (rounded up) more. Reduces cost of all Prow Lances/Artillery and enhances their effects. Removes DP Penalties of Lances. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers. Increases cost to increase the lenght/width of ships by 100% each step.


Barrage - Reduces the cost of all Missile Equipments by 1 DP. Increade Non-Missile (Hangars excluded) DP costs by 1. All Missile Weapons are now able to be mounted on one Weight Class lower than stated. Remove Armor penalty for Carriers.
This would result in all weapons that can be intercepted by point defense systems so anyone fighting us would go all in on those.

Cutting Edge - Removes all penalties. Ship classes older than 150 years cannot be built or copied without new Equipment/Weapons being added.
This one would force us to do a design action every 15 turns or else we can build ships so not going to vote for this one.
3: For existing designs does cutting edge trigger 15 turns after they where designed or 15 turns after adopting this doctrine?

[X] Carrier Battle Group Focus

Edited to add more questions.
 
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Carrier battlegroup is a bad idea. We'd be seeing like 5-10 DP penalty on our most common designs.

Example

Scorpio-Class Light Cruiser
-Length - 4.200m
-Width - 55Mm
-Acceleration - 5 Gravities
-Armor - Medium Double Hull
-Shields - One Matrix
-Weapons - 6x100m Torpedoes/2x Heavy Missile Batteries/Medium Bomber Hangar (Total: 24x Bombers and 12x Fighters)
-Equipment - Missile Swarms/Armored Lifepods/Strict Pilot Training/Veteran Pilot Gene-Lines/Internal Security Systems/Ship Shrines/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lattice Hulls

3 DP because our torpedies and missiles batteries are low tech.
Then 1 dp for missile swarms, armored life pods, internal security.
 
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