Maybe. But maybe not.
Yeah, thats a fair point.
Thanks that's enlightening as to how valuable the Cup actually is. Seems our bargaining position is not as high as I thought. In that case I'll change to your vote. Fortunately if things get out of hand later we could just kill this guy.
I was using it more as a figurative tool rather than actually a puppet similar to saying anyone who colludes with a coin and thinks they're not a puppet is a fool other than apparently Nicodemus Archelone.
It is literally a Raksha.
I get that you don't like bringing exalted things into Dresden Files but he's literally a Rakasha his cup was stolen from the outside with him and then he was pulled in as well. He was literally forced to take shape during his summoning literally call him the kin of Iku-Turso who was a rakasha who took on the role of a God.
It's literally his entire motivation in the palm of your hand the Leverage is literally infinite because you can do anything including destroy him with it or he can just sit here forever without the ability to muster the motivation it do anything else.
Yeah DP's earlier comment would imply that's it's Rakasha as well.
It's 'just' supposed to be his compassion and empathy though? He's crippled without it but I'm not seeing how that's "infinite leverage".
As Bob will tell you, the Denarians terrify most spirits.
We have seen Thorned Namshiel(two different hosts), Imariel-Lartessa, Lasciel-Hannah, ???-Roseanne, Ursiel-Genoskwa and Sariel-Cassius. ALL of them have been active partners of their Fallen, instead of just dumb mules.
1) You can have Graces and not be Raksha.
GWM p92-93 said:
It literally represents the ability of it being to want things anythings so if it desires to do anything and it does not have its cup and has been sitting here for the better part of 200 years now it's literally his motivation.
It's not just the ability to communicate it is the ability to understand the desires of others and yourself it is for all intents and purposes motivations that aren't based in convictions which means most of them I will not be a tool of a tool is a conviction based motivation but he's been sitting in this same spot for God knows how many years now and that's probably pretty related to the fact that his desire passion longing and anything else that isn't conviction based is gone. They didn't cease to exist but rather they are Beyond their ability to reach. Both physically and metaphysically which makes sense because it's inside super prison.Graceful Wicked Masques Pg 93 said:
He literally said he got pulled into shaped existence everything in the never never even when it's a complete fucking madhouse still has an identity he literally said I got pulled into shaped existence and my Graces were pulled separately from my main existence. In an effort to bind him unwholesomely. He also literally said I was being made it's not even something that's debatable.
This thing was literally unshaped an unshaped pulled into creation and thus had to take on an identity and it was pulled into Creation in separate parts so it's cup emanation was stolen by a nickel head and then it was pulled in because unshaped are really instinctual if they don't have emanations.
1) He said he was summoned from slumber, not from the Wyld.
The world of fixed form in question is the real world, where Demonreach is actually located.
You couldn't summon them in the age of legends but now there are free form categories of summoning if you know what kind of existence you're trying to pull through a gate. The fallen angels are exactly the kind of beings to know what they are and how they function such as to pull the entirety of their desires from them and then make them take on an identity and then pull the rest of them through.
The outside is multiple and possibly separate places but the Wyld didn't just cease to exist no matter how large the White Gods flimsy but expensive creation gets it's literally an infinite fluctuation of potential.
1) The Fallen would know what raksha are, but if this was one, and the rules of summoning work as you claim? The Denarian would have summoned its Heart Grace and then simply given it orders it couldnt refuse.
All those were outside attackers. The Raksha was already on the inside
No, it is a straight up raksha. It has the graces, it's unchanged from pre-history. This has been established.
Actually, why would you think so? The angels are creatures of White God, who is itself a creature of a latter age. Yes, Uriel knows stuff about Age of Legends, but blindly extrapolating to all angels is dangerous.
And this is not a fae, it's what happens when raksha don't get changed into fae.
You can't take a heart Grace without taking a sword Grace and taking a sword Grace requires taking a sword Grace it's literally the methodology by which they can fight you. Why are you treating them like they're a species. But what metric are you deciding what is and isn't a Raksha Iku-Turso is still a Raksha no matter what mein it puts on as a God the Fey are not. They are inherently beings of the shaped World they aren't little bubbles of wild substance that have a temporary identity like The Raksha are. He Who Walks Behind is still a raksha even if he left his heart behind. The fact that he's completely Hollow and becomes other people doesn't help his case of not being just a bit of Wyld substance for the fake identity attached.
Maeve and Lily and their entourages were literally on the island itself.
No it isnt.
1) There is zero reason why he wouldnt have summoned them both first.
Okay this makes considerably more sense than what you were saying before no one's thinking that they're second edition exalted raksha system wise. This is purely in a narrative sense no one is saying that they are mechanically raksha. Just like the white Council and wizard talents are modeled mechanically as Mages that's not saying that their Mages in the world of Darkness sense. Just because Iko-Turso is rakasha who we saw ravishing Mortals of their gossamer I expected to be modeled like a spirit because that's what they are in world of Darkness senses like every Elemental or weird spider thing, Kami, Bane or whatever you like but he's still a raksha. I don't expect him to be modeled like one but the name matters for narrative distinction.
Am I reading too much into the kin of Iku-Turso line? It's an honest question because the first time that we saw him we gave him(Iku-Turso) the name raksha so to call this thing his kin seems to imply that he is also a raksha.
They were outside the cells / containment area / not "in" the system. So very much outside. The Cup is imprisoned inside. This creates an arcane connection and potentially a backdoor.
Malfeas exists, this was determined in a vision of the Crown after the Wampire Party, but it is in an eternal nightmare, that is, we don't need to worry about it unless we actively look for mess with it.
I'm okay with either of the two winning.