We would be doing this on their schedule. Not ours.
If they break into the Cathedral of Turin next week to grab the Shroud, thats when it pops off.
Thats what happens when you are working on someone else's schedule.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
If they break into the Cathedral of Turin next week to grab the Shroud, thats when it pops off.
Thats what happens when you are working on someone else's schedule.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
That isn't what it says?
It would happen after their service is over.
She is planning to tell the knights since trying to use them as blind bait sounds like a great way to have the whole thing explode in your face. Lash has some experience with schemes and manipulation and these are not the people you want to winding up if you don't want something blowing up at crosspurposes in the middle of a fight. The present winning vote does involve telling them. It would go something like:
"How are you planning to restore Arthur? This is a condition of your release."
*Answer*
Take it from there.
The only place you would have to bluff is at the start since you know what he's planning.
If you want to vote for chaos because you think it's more interesting to read about that's fair, but your framing here and in the past makes it seem like you're pressing a moral line here.
We've been repeatedly told it doesn't work like that here.
Arthur could adapt to modern politics enough to break it by being well spoken and favor trading in sideways from the supernatural side of things,
Yeah. I don't really care about his brand recognition. Arthur and his friends got to play their hand and went bust after an exciting but largely pointless round. Now it's our turn at the table and if we're going to cut them in they need to satisfy two requirements at minimum in my mind:
1) They can't be meaningfully harmful to innocents or the world at large
2) They have to be a profitable investment of the time and political capital this will cost.
If these things can't be demonstrated to be reasonably likely to be true then the default assumption should be that they are false. Supposition doesn't cut it to hand out influence on the global stage.
Which we'd effectively be doing by allowing them to exert their own power again. Our association would inevitably cause their actions to reflect on us, making this a political expense for us.
That is going too far. The white god is a big deal, but we've seen a lot of the older exalted stuff is in a "it just works" category of its own. I don't doubt that the white god could contrive to have us stopped before we can really ruin his fun, but turning off the crown is a whole different kettle of fish.
Such community standards are only fit to be broken over our armored exalted knee, and nothing else.
No it isn't, in their own words:
I'm sorry to go back to this, but the issue I, and a lot of others seem to be having with your position is that in denying "exalted supremacy" you go to the extreme of asserting absolute DF supremacy, and, often, only in ways that are detrimental to us, while it what we have gotten so far indicates that the setting is a fusion, with exalted Creation being the past of DF verse, and hence things should be reconciled, instead of exalted part being secondary to DF part. Moreover, a number of your assertions, such as "White God and his servants being portrayed as totally beyond primordials" are arguable at best.
That is exactly what I said thou. Long term social engineering by exalted, wins against those without such, it always favors the exalted. They can make better speeches, make better deals, promise less while getting more etc.
For reference Molly if she had the excellency for politics, would rock 6 dice against the mortal max of 10 already at the level most politician of a decade experience. For the minimum investment of some 12 xp it would be 12 dice, more then any mortal can ever get. I would expect Arthur to have at least 8 for politics, that the prime minister level just a step down for the actual top 10 politicians in the world, before any excellency.
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- Location
- Germany
Arthur wanted to live.
Arthur asked the Fey for a favor to help him in that endeavors, but they couldn't fully do it.
I think it's very likely that his soul managed to cling to his top-condition corpse for 1500 years, that's just legendary Hero-King stuff.
And I also think it's very likely that Titania will release the body without any trouble to the knights, since that would be appropriate to Arthur's original intent, and thus their bargain.
I am pressing a moral line on the matter that I think perpetual imprisonment is morally wrong in every case.
Imprisonment should serve reform and repayment, not just be a punishment for its own sake.
If you don't plan on releasing someone, kill them.
And story-wise I think people who seal ancient evils are cowards who are not willing to go far enough to find ways to truly kill them.
But that isn't really related to the Knights here.
Anyway, about changing the status quo of the setting, I generally am not happy with it, so I'll vote to upset it when possible.
And I don't even think that's OOC, Molly is a teenager with vast cosmic powers who hasn't yet lost a direct confrontation with ancient monsters, the worst case was a remis with the Naagloshii.
Of course it would make sense for her to change deeply distasteful things like the relative freedom of the Denarians to act, or the rule of the Red King, and quickly at that.
Or to reform them if at all possible.
Just wanted to add that.
On another note, absolutely o idea where Uju saw any indication of the white god doing things that are beyond the primordials powers, because there isn't anything like that anywhere in this quest.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Or seal them away temporarily so they can buy time to find a way to permanently kill them.
You are distorting the situation. They are committing tk a year of service to us, and rescuing Arthur later.
Also, why are you intent on convincing them resurrection won't work? We and they both know it's a lie. Divine artifacts, like the Cauldron of Rebirth, could bring him back, we know that for a fact. Exalted craft has mechanisms for true resurrection. Lore of Awakening 5 + questing for Arthur's soul are a viable solution. What makes you convinced that resurrection cannot work?
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I wasn't talking about now in setting. But about your theory where the first century and all before it were the ideas of the White God.
[X] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi
[X] Plan Layers of Deception
-[X] Give options for peaceful possibilities of restoring Arthur to life as possible compromises, should they prove themselves trustworthy, retrieving the Shroud only one of them, to obscure the Crown of Eyes
--[X] Subterfuge excellency
-[X] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi
--[X] Use the Crown on the prison cell to ask "who is observing this scene right now?" before speaking
[X] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open
[X] Plan Layers of Deception
-[X] Give options for peaceful possibilities of restoring Arthur to life as possible compromises, should they prove themselves trustworthy, retrieving the Shroud only one of them, to obscure the Crown of Eyes
--[X] Subterfuge excellency
-[X] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi
--[X] Use the Crown on the prison cell to ask "who is observing this scene right now?" before speaking
[X] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open
I don't really want to bring Arthur or his knights back, but thinking on it a bit I believe the approach of letting them out for a year's service and a Denarian roach motel is a worst of all worlds situation.
Some things we should stay towards the middle on, but in this one having Camelot loose but only nominally affiliated with us - as in our reputation is linked to their actions but our formal influence on them is limited - is worse than them being completely locked out where they can't destroy things and a close alliance between aligned powers.
We should either send them to the afterlife or go back and demand a formal alliance with Camelot, then focus on turning them to our way of thinking. Maybe we get Arthur back too, maybe we talk them into carrying on his legacy without him. More involvement means more control to mitigate problems and potentially turn them from this path if we need to.We could still work our way to that with the current deal, but we'll never have more leverage than we do now.
If we're going to be blamed for their resurgence we might as well maximize the benefits.
Part of good social skills is knowing what to say and when to say it. I expect a highly skilled social character going into politics to be very persuasive, but they couldn't turn the world inside out with a few speeches. Still dangerous, but I don't expect him to successfully reform England into his kingdom in any reasonable timeframe.
Some things we should stay towards the middle on, but in this one having Camelot loose but only nominally affiliated with us - as in our reputation is linked to their actions but our formal influence on them is limited - is worse than them being completely locked out where they can't destroy things and a close alliance between aligned powers.
We should either send them to the afterlife or go back and demand a formal alliance with Camelot, then focus on turning them to our way of thinking. Maybe we get Arthur back too, maybe we talk them into carrying on his legacy without him. More involvement means more control to mitigate problems and potentially turn them from this path if we need to.We could still work our way to that with the current deal, but we'll never have more leverage than we do now.
If we're going to be blamed for their resurgence we might as well maximize the benefits.
I think we have different scales in mind here, and approaches for that matter.
Part of good social skills is knowing what to say and when to say it. I expect a highly skilled social character going into politics to be very persuasive, but they couldn't turn the world inside out with a few speeches. Still dangerous, but I don't expect him to successfully reform England into his kingdom in any reasonable timeframe.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Camelot is dead.
I think your scale is smaller then mine. Say an exalted goes in politics with a base 8 dice, + dragon blood excellency becomes 12 and it not a key ablity. On average their opponents will be base 7 dice. The exalted averages around 5 success, while the mortals average 3.
So roll it forward over a month of political campaigning, socializing, etc. The exalted over an extended contest get about 500 success, while the mortals get 300. Over half a year it becomes 3,000 for the exalted, while the mortals get 1,800. So over time the exalted gets more money, more voters, more people switching to them personally etc. Democracies are the worse government at stopping an exalted from quickly becoming the head of state, in a year an exalted trying should be the super majority with 80%+ approval.
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Yes, but they're looking to revive it. My point is that they have an obvious motive and we're going to get blamed for what they do about it. I'm not saying we should conquer a new kingdom for them, but making this a transactional fey bargain like they've framed it is a mistake.
If we introduce a new circle of dragon bloods or demigods to the world we should establish a real working relationship, not let them think of themselves as contractors trying to get out from under our thumb.
Arc 12 Interlude 11: Convocation of Wolves
Convocation of Wolves
8th of February 2007 A.D.
Harry Dresden was starting to wonder at the wisdom of introducing Molly to the Alphas, oh not for any trouble, they got along really, really well... like a House on Fire. They had questions, she had answers and she wasn't particularly shy in sharing them: about the war with the Red Court, which lead into talking about vampires in general which conversation he had been very glad to be present for or it might have turned into Theoretical Necromancy 101... which had lead to talking about the Jade Court. For some reason that had been particularly fascinating to Alex and Phil. That, he'd assumed would be the end of it. Even Molly, this Molly at least, would struggle to produce a walking corpse from half a world away to explain the ins and outs of their strange magics. He had been very, very wrong...
"Say, do you still have that copy of Marsilio's Book of Median Directions and spirits Bob mentioned to me two months ago, the one I checked on when I wrote the Book of Yomi."
Some part of Harry had half expected the line to go dead after that ominous question, but no. He had a chance to ask questions of his own: who, what, when and especially why?
"Well you know when we are talking about hell yesterday?"
"A bit of it. I was a little busy looking out the window in case there was a Midwestern Arcane reporter around to start the next Satanic Panic," the wizard snarked.
"Right," he could hear her eyes rolling. "The Alphas can know about demon wolves and about demons but not Hell, might give them nightmares, right? Anyway we were talking about the Wicked City and then about how there are urban spirits and then I demonstrated by..."
"The thing with the phone that was really special because most computers can't talk to each other," Harry interrupted, privately proud of himself for getting all of that down. Over the last few months of actually being able to have technology more advanced than a landline in his house he had come to the realization that computer technology was as esoteric as any wizard's work, though thankfully their daemons did not come out of the screen to chew on your face...
"So than I was wondering why can't the Alphas learn how to speak to the spirits of the world like I can?"
Spoke too soon. "Molly what did you do?" Pity Lash wasn't there, she'd be more likely to be able to talk them out of whatever magical experimentation they got up to than he'd be able to, the Wizard of Chicago thought. Assuming the first Molly isn't talking her into something crazy as well.
"I took some inspiration from Sanctuary, but especially from the way their Teacher taught them to change shape and intermediated some bargains. The spirits of Chicago are getting a lot more lively since I took over the Last Station you know..."
"I'll be right over."
***
He showed up at Billy's apartment to a scene halfway between a yard-sale for old electronics and a hookah party. Charity was going to kill him, no doubt in his mind, he was dead.
"What—" he coughed more for effect than because of the smell, which was pretty nice, almost minty, if the mind was first mixed with engine oil, "—are you doing?"
"Propitiating the spirits of technology in order to gain Gifts in line with our inherently human nature," Georgia got the words out fast.
"Nothing bad about it," Billy backed her up. "In fact this one makes us more safe, makes us better at driving. Using any kind of tool really."
"Turning into a wolf isn't just about biology, it comes with an instinct, and understanding of what it is to be the kin of Lykaios, the spirit of the wolf..." Someone else in the crowd added. "...so that got us wondering if we can talk to the spirit of other things, if we can learn more tricks from them and we can but it takes...."
"My Presence," A voice that crackled like ice and flame spoke up from the black arch of the bedroom window. Eyes like brilliant green stars shone at just the right height to be level with Harry's. "So I was wondering if that book I mentioned on the phone had a way of signaling a friendly spirit for initiations." A great green wolf with a coat of ice and eyes of balefire spoke with Molly's voice. "OK So it's not that small but it is a mammal right?"
Harry did what he usually did when confronted with an unexpected half ton magical impossibility. "That's an E for effort then, but I expect to see some improvement soon you hear?"
Balefire wolf laughter sounded like fireworks going off next to one's ear.
OOC: The Alphas can now learn Rank 1 Homid and Glass Walker Gifts, though they might be able to improve in time. Incidentally what Sophia here did not tell Harry is where she really got the idea she might be able to teach the Alphas Gifts... Broken Seeker's little cannibal cult. Even this Molly knows that's tad too out there to make public as inspiration.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
What gave you that indication? All I read was "follow older vows". Which is rather vague.
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Previous vote will be up until tomorrow since there was some confusion on what one of the options was which was only cleared up this morning
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Molly: "Hold my latte!"
That is a powerful buff to the Alpha's. This will have some powerful ripple effects. Especially if it spreads to other groups like the Alpha's.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If we're talking about power creep here, how do you think Harry would react to the sheer WTFery that is getting Sidereal Charms and having to deal with Arcane Fate?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
What better way to dodge child support payments?