The Angel that is Michael's Sword would have something to say about that... most likely not something positive.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
The Angel that is Michael's Sword would have something to say about that... most likely not something positive.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I think they've held onto this goal for so long that they don't know life beyond it. Their duty is their life. We need to give them hope that doesn't look like the thing that brought them to this conclusion. They need help and unfortunately, to help them, we need to give them some promises first. By the way, do they even know Arthur's opinion on resurrecting him? I'm not sure he could leave it at that but... Damn it's complicated.
Well anything sufficient to summon the soul in question would work.
So long Molly can access the soul of the person in question, and they are willing to be resurrected, Molly can do it easily. Molly already accepted to help random people resurrect that Lydia come across, that feel they died to soon.
this is not a vampire game where there is only grey and dark,and then death.
this is not a mage game,where there are only puzzles,lies,and maybe a little truth at the end.
it was, until we exalted.
This is an exalted game now.There is hope.
we are not in a story about mortal heroes trying and failing to do the impossible.
we are in a story about a young god( ish)
growing up and changing the world in their image.
we are not invincible, but the majority of tropes are on our side,not against us.
everyone is way to pessimistic.
everything worked out fine so far, and we went to hell!
just,try to be a bit more optimistic about things.
the world isnt going to break because we hugged sligthly tighter.
-just, dont strangle it. we are still learning
this is not a mage game,where there are only puzzles,lies,and maybe a little truth at the end.
it was, until we exalted.
This is an exalted game now.There is hope.
we are not in a story about mortal heroes trying and failing to do the impossible.
we are in a story about a young god( ish)
growing up and changing the world in their image.
we are not invincible, but the majority of tropes are on our side,not against us.
everyone is way to pessimistic.
everything worked out fine so far, and we went to hell!
just,try to be a bit more optimistic about things.
the world isnt going to break because we hugged sligthly tighter.
-just, dont strangle it. we are still learning
I dont think it is.
When their request was denied? These gentlemen started a fight in a house where they were received as guests, killed their hostess and are now conspiring to raid a religious institution.
Even aft?
They will still have to get Arthur's body from the Fae, something that will require larceny or violence to accomplish since they do not have an innate right to it. Then whatever ritual thats involved has to be invented and carried out, with the cost.
They may be heroes in their own mind, but I can count the cost to others.
A new human player does not necessarily act in the interests of Humanity, as opposed to their own personal interests.
The Denarians are human after all.
So is Cowl for that matter. So was Corpsetaker.
And I think its quite a reach to assume that whatever comes back in Arthur's body after fifteen hundred years of death will have the interests of modern society at heart.
This almost certainly ends up with us having to swordfight whatever hijacks Pendragon's body.
It is not defeatism to observe the rules of the setting.
Molly is not the only actor here, and this particular quest has already been the ruin of at least one supernatural kingdom, with the effects on the human populations that relied on its patronage and protection.
Specifically, the Fifth Law exists for a reason with regards to mortal magic.
Also worth remembering that Exalted status does not survive even momentary death in ExWoD.
If you somehow manage to resurrect an Exalt, you arent getting an Exalt back.
Assuming Arthur is an Exalt, that is.
1)You cannot summon the soul of a dead person that has passed on in the Dresdenverse.
Thats why when LaFortier was killed, the White Council couldnt simply ask his soul the ID of his killer.
Same as when Summer Knight Reuel was killed, Titania couldnt simply call his soul and ask who killed him.
2)Amoracchius is not a mindless McGuffin for your casual use or misuse.
3) I dont see how Sanctuary has anything to do with this.
Pendragon is not one of our citizens, and died outside of our Hell back before William the Conqueror came to England.
His soul is long gone.
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rules of the setting?
this is exalted now. whatever the rules were before,they are now no longer rules.
they are suggestions.
this is no longer the theme of sad dresden,this is the theme of impossible molly
we are breaking several setting rules every turn,and you ignore all that and focus on the dresden files as if thats all there is.
You are deep in defeatism. so deep you do not notice it. you think you are being realistic. this is not reality.
stopp jelling that thats not how lasers work, i want to watch a jedi fight a sith!
i dont care if arthur comes back exalted or not.
an unexalted good guy can still do good,and an exalted bad guy can still be stopped.
You are trying to do nothing because doing anything could be dangerous.
Just have a little faith,we will figure this out.
this is exalted now. whatever the rules were before,they are now no longer rules.
they are suggestions.
this is no longer the theme of sad dresden,this is the theme of impossible molly
we are breaking several setting rules every turn,and you ignore all that and focus on the dresden files as if thats all there is.
You are deep in defeatism. so deep you do not notice it. you think you are being realistic. this is not reality.
stopp jelling that thats not how lasers work, i want to watch a jedi fight a sith!
i dont care if arthur comes back exalted or not.
an unexalted good guy can still do good,and an exalted bad guy can still be stopped.
You are trying to do nothing because doing anything could be dangerous.
Just have a little faith,we will figure this out.
1 and 3 are wrong. We know this in-story there's no question about the possiblity of true resurrection. We know that the Cauldron would have worked if used. This is not in doubt. It was denied them specifically because it would have worked. Thus, it's within the power of a pagan god to resurrect Arthur. His soul has not passed beyond afterlife and to White God.
You are mistaken.
This is ExWoD/Dresden Files. The Throne of Heaven is NOT empty. There are Rules; we have literally met an archangel.
If anything, the Rules here are a lot more stringent than they are in Creation, because active Creator deity and his/their unbound agents are active in the setting, and are empowered to take Steps.
Exalted Supremacy is not a thing here.
You are mistaken.
True resurrection does happen. It appears to be the province of divine power, not mortal magic.
There's good reason that Arawn's first wife couldnt simply enter the Cauldron and be resurrected.
The queen had the gift of prophecy, not intellectus.
The Cauldron was divine magic, not mortal magic, and we dont actually know that it would have worked; the queen thought it would have, but thats hardly the first time someone's been wrong onscreen.
The Shroud of Turin, Knockoff Edition, did not work for healing a child.
Arthur Pendragon died outside Sanctuary.
There was never any chance that taking him into Sanctuary would raise him.
- Location
- Estonia
Sure, but my point was protesting portraying them as "unable to learn". A one-time failure of a method does not automatically prove to you, that your end goal is wrong. And if you think you don't have access to an alternative method, then it's not a failure of learning to be willing to throw the dice again.
We don't know how Arthur worded his request. He could have left a list of people he trusted to be allowed to access him, or anyone who Titania would think (to the best of her ability) would be sincerely intending to help awaken him.
And while all magic has a cost, I doubt they would go so far as to start sacrificing people. With the potential exception of themselves.
All we know is that Arthur is "dead" by medieval standards, with his body perfectly preserved. For all we know, he is in a coma, and his soul is sleeping inside his body, not having gone anywhere.
And all that is something we can check out before we try to revive/awaken him. And if Arthur is truly dead and passed on and it's someone else that come back? I would be a lot less scared of them, than a potentially hostile true Exalted/Demigod Arthur.
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everytime dresden files said this not possible,and exalted said this is possible,dreden files was wrong. the archangel you mentioned? they camre to us to politely ask us to not use our power on the ruler on the throne. because it would have had a chance of working. whatever you know about dresden files? limits and rules and authority? they are secondary to the rules of exalted.
the white god could interfere. sure.
but they wont,they never do.
your lore is has worth, but its no longer the rulebook. the rulebbok is exalted.
we can do things. wd can change things.
we can achieve something.
please stop trying to drag this down to the grey mood of dresden files. its depressing.
edit: why does everything have to be bad? why are we not allowed to try things?
in which story was blindly following the advice of the lawful authorities the rigth thing?
dont you want to do something exciting? to make a mark? To make this world happier?
why is everything good impossible?
Why does everything have to be gray?
Its not just you, its a lot of discussion i read here that is very much like this.
why do you have no trust?
the white god could interfere. sure.
but they wont,they never do.
your lore is has worth, but its no longer the rulebook. the rulebbok is exalted.
we can do things. wd can change things.
we can achieve something.
please stop trying to drag this down to the grey mood of dresden files. its depressing.
edit: why does everything have to be bad? why are we not allowed to try things?
in which story was blindly following the advice of the lawful authorities the rigth thing?
dont you want to do something exciting? to make a mark? To make this world happier?
why is everything good impossible?
Why does everything have to be gray?
Its not just you, its a lot of discussion i read here that is very much like this.
why do you have no trust?
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Kemayo
A Certain Cheerful Tone Of Voice
- Location
- Missouri
It is somewhat. Remember that Uriel had to actually negotiate with Molly for her to not use her Crown on certain topics -- the White God can't just forbid it and have the Crown bounce off.
Why Arawn's queen couldn't be resurrected is a good question. Maybe because she was a goddess, and it only works on mortals. Maybe one of the knights has and used a spirit killing technique on her.
Arthur having died outside the Sanctuary is an edge case, I think. His soul is available for resurrection via pagan divine objects. It's not in White God's final domain (maybe in purgatory?).
Honestly, this seems fairly straightforward. Use Arthur's body (or one of the knights) as a focus to locate his soul. CCG there with a soul trap (we have one we made for Tiffany). Obtain his soul. Spend XP for Tiffany to buy Lore of Awakening 5 to restore the body with the soul being available via previously described steps. Ensure success with an Invincible assertion splendor and maybe a resurrection splendor variant.
Actually successfully resurrecting Arthur is fully supported by the system and is ot an issue. Might be complicated and hard, but ot impossible.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I've always wondered how you see it. I've seen you say it many times... And every time I remember that we're probably in a Setting where it was Exalted and then became the Dresden Files. So I highly doubt that the White God is the same god as in Butcher version. It just seems to me sometimes that you perceive it not as a fusion, but as a direct crossover.
As for the throne... Yes, Molly, this is not a rebellion against the Primordials, she probably can't destroy the current owners of the throne of heaven on her own and so we should avoid direct confrontation.
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- Location
- Brazil
I respect that a lot, and in the beginning I had a lot of ideas that went in that direction, but after many defeats I learned that this won't work because the voters have already gathered a circle of people that Molly has to keep tabs on her movements and they have made it a habit, to sometimes being too cautious, with DP can't change that suddenly.
But next turn I will suggest we deal with the infiltrators of the Black Council so I will vote to start sending our own troops to begin attack the Reds, especially the mechanics, there has already been a construction of soldiers for mass production in the topic, and which we are sure that in destruction they returned to our soul.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow as we wrap this up one way or another and, staying in the spirit world though closer to hand, move on to what's on the other side of the Last Station.
Their original plan was to obtain the Cauldron and then steal Arthur's body from the Fae
After fifteen hundred years of imprisonment, their plan is to steal the Shroud from the mortal stewards of the White God, steal the body from the Fae, and then use a magic ritual to resurrect Arthur.
I think the balance of the evidence is that they, or at least their leader, are unable to learn.
At least with regards to this particular subject.
Yup.Just like Uriel negotiates with Dresden for his intervention, or how Knights have to choose to intervene. Or how a wizard can use their Sight on an angel. Free Will is a pretty big thing for the White God's faction, as are the consequences of exercising that will; the origin myth for Humanity in Genesis had the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil accessible to humans.
It doesnt mean the White God cant just forbid shit. Just that he doesnt, or doesnt want to for whatever reason.
It might even be a test; the OT White God was fond of that sort of thing, even though his MO is different post-Christ.
Remember that we cant point the Crown at ourselves. It has limits.
The White God and his agents are portrayed as straight up beyond anything the Primordials were capable of.
And there is plenty of corroboration, including from entities hostile to the designs of Heaven like the Fallen.
Once you begin to argue that one of their claims is false, the entire setting crumbles.
In this AU, Creation and its shenanigans just strike me as a previous Age of the Wheel, when the White God was a lot more hands off. Thats my opinion, at least.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I hope not, because it's almost Old World of Darkness levels of missing god in its badness. Seriously, that's not a very good option either.
But I understand that in this case you are a supporter of the Dresden prevailing side. Whereas I see it from the point of view of Exalt primacy. And I don't think there is a way to reconcile the settings without one side coming out weaker than the other. Either the Exalts came first or the White God.
We have a deal with Lydia to take restless souls, that felt they died with life unlived, into Sanctuary to get new bodies.
The steps of ressurection for Molly are simple. 1 where is the soul, 2 find soul, 3 ask soul if they want to live again, if yes, 4 take to Sancturary wait day and they get a new body.
- Location
- Estonia
Wouldn't that imply that one of the Ages of the Wheel is when everything is (proto)Wyld and Creation itself needs to be made by Primordials?
So if Primordials developed naturally, was the White God's only intervention making the Wyld and then hiding for Ages? While letting Primordials decide what form the Creation and its inhabitants were even going to take?
Because that is indeed quite "hands off", to put it mildly.
- Location
- Brazil
We know that the Exalted came first, the fairies are modified versions of rashaka, the Courts have the power of Three of Five Maidens, one of the ancient fairies has artifacts made at Creation, etc. That's a certainty.
We also know, through visions of the Crown, that humanity has had several different versions, as a species, and that it is a basic assumption of DF cosmology that the White God is the creator deity of this current interaction of reality, and that he has the masks and cloaks of almost all the chief gods of the pantheons (or at least the majority), such as the Augustus Character of Jade that the Ten Thousand Wan Xian served. This is also absolutely true.
What is the White God? Who the fuck knows lol. But seriously this debate is pointless, because our promise to Uriel, Molly's faith and the respect she has for him will never let her go to the long, long steps of a plan to answer this. Especially with the amount of enemies and problems the world has, which are much more important.
So stop arguing guys, accept Molly's view that the White God is good, the deity who created this world and wants to help her, let's focus on the most useful problems.
We also know, through visions of the Crown, that humanity has had several different versions, as a species, and that it is a basic assumption of DF cosmology that the White God is the creator deity of this current interaction of reality, and that he has the masks and cloaks of almost all the chief gods of the pantheons (or at least the majority), such as the Augustus Character of Jade that the Ten Thousand Wan Xian served. This is also absolutely true.
What is the White God? Who the fuck knows lol. But seriously this debate is pointless, because our promise to Uriel, Molly's faith and the respect she has for him will never let her go to the long, long steps of a plan to answer this. Especially with the amount of enemies and problems the world has, which are much more important.
So stop arguing guys, accept Molly's view that the White God is good, the deity who created this world and wants to help her, let's focus on the most useful problems.
This doesn't really work at all, as we know that Outsiders are not part of White God's design / are not White God's creations. They are forced to obey the Rules while inside Creation, but that's all.
So far, WG seems like a good fit for being a successful Devil Tiger.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If we're talking about genre/tone/world threat level and tone... I think the world is about 85-90 percent as dangerous as Uju32 seems to think.
The rest is a question of tone.
At one end is "Dresdenverse startup supernatural faction quest" where Exalted are bullshit as a justification for why forming a supernatural faction with growth potential is possible at all and at the peak of our power we're an equal to Mab or Odin, but if you get arrogant, try to trod all over the setting with making absolutely sure you have the power to back it up, you will pay dearly. If you try to do wacky things for the sake of doing wacky things, you will pay dearly.
The other end of the spectrum is something comparable to "Puella Magi Adfligo Systema", where everything can be fixed is an enforced genre convention from a Madoka level wish, and unless the Incubators move directly with equivalents to special circumstances drones or something unlikely like that, you are the apex predator and the primary concern is playing amateur therapist/empire building/prisoner management/infohazard management/magiscience research
If 5 is a mid point between those two on a 10 point scale I'd guess we're a 4-6 where 1 is Dresdenverse startup supernatural faction quest and 10 is a Dresdenverse equivalent to Adligo Systema.
The rest is a question of tone.
At one end is "Dresdenverse startup supernatural faction quest" where Exalted are bullshit as a justification for why forming a supernatural faction with growth potential is possible at all and at the peak of our power we're an equal to Mab or Odin, but if you get arrogant, try to trod all over the setting with making absolutely sure you have the power to back it up, you will pay dearly. If you try to do wacky things for the sake of doing wacky things, you will pay dearly.
The other end of the spectrum is something comparable to "Puella Magi Adfligo Systema", where everything can be fixed is an enforced genre convention from a Madoka level wish, and unless the Incubators move directly with equivalents to special circumstances drones or something unlikely like that, you are the apex predator and the primary concern is playing amateur therapist/empire building/prisoner management/infohazard management/magiscience research
If 5 is a mid point between those two on a 10 point scale I'd guess we're a 4-6 where 1 is Dresdenverse startup supernatural faction quest and 10 is a Dresdenverse equivalent to Adligo Systema.
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