BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
WDYM? Lash's plan doesn't involve informing the 3 Knights. Only one of the three listed options says that and it isn't the Denarian plan one.
Last edited:
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
The currently leading option is "Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi". In order to do so we would need to talk about the shroud of Turin, disclosing somehow that we learned their plan. They would thus learn that we have means of finding out such secrets.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I think your reading it wrong. If it was like that DP would've given a warning. As he did with the other listed option.
Last edited:
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Nevermind it maybe-
"Blindsided" is either talking about the Denarians or the Knights or both.
@DragonParadox When you come back could we get some clarification here?
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi
Best way to handle this, I'd say. Never swim against the current is you don't have to and, yes, we can work with Arthur. We sure as goddamn hell want to lay out the gameboard in such a way that he doesn't think he needs to either go conquering or else taking down major players under the cover of night. We're doing good work spreading redemption and sanity, and giving alternatives to the desperate, and I'd rather not throw any unnecessary curveballs into a war we are slowly winning.
I'd say he was a good Catholic boy except Catholicism isn't really thought to have started until 590 AD. He was downed before 560.
Sure, Tongue-boy was trying to trick us. Good for him.
Though, hoo-boy, this is going to be one hell of a violation of the laws of magic in spirit if not in word. We are going down the list and leaving checkmarks.
They just don't want to be cockblocked indefinitely.
Best way to handle this, I'd say. Never swim against the current is you don't have to and, yes, we can work with Arthur. We sure as goddamn hell want to lay out the gameboard in such a way that he doesn't think he needs to either go conquering or else taking down major players under the cover of night. We're doing good work spreading redemption and sanity, and giving alternatives to the desperate, and I'd rather not throw any unnecessary curveballs into a war we are slowly winning.
I'd say he was a good Catholic boy except Catholicism isn't really thought to have started until 590 AD. He was downed before 560.
Sure, Tongue-boy was trying to trick us. Good for him.
Though, hoo-boy, this is going to be one hell of a violation of the laws of magic in spirit if not in word. We are going down the list and leaving checkmarks.
Reduce their desperation and they are less likely to rely on a million to one chance. If they have a way forward they will be willing to refine that way forward until it has a reasonable chance of actually working. If something is a shit plan they will either go for a better plan or try to figure out some way to modify the existing one.
They just don't want to be cockblocked indefinitely.
Last edited:
- Location
- Brazil
Can someone write a stun somewhat patronizingly praising Lyr's plan and attempt to deceive us? He seems like the type who has done this many times against powerful beings and it must sting his pride to be so easily discovered, as well as being very funny.
No it is not.
The Dresdenverse is a death world, but this is a vastly sunnier setting than oWoD, even with the imports. There's only 30x Fallen, and they are bound, as compared to the thousands of Demons and Earthbound in oWoD. The Black Court are nonexistent as a geopolitical power, compared to the Kindred in oWoD. There is no Pentex. There is no Wyrm.
There's no old monster about to show up and eat half of the Indian subcontinent, no demon that owns an entire region of eastern Europe.
Its a Dresdenverse setting, modelled on ExWoD mechanics .
To quote Holden, the Exalted are guests here, not natives. And it shows. A Yama King can enslave an Exalt in ExWoD, turn them into a greater akuma forever, and once that step is taken, it apparently cant be undone.
Lydia is daughter of ONE death god. She has power over the undead and the restless dead.
Lydia does not have jurisdiction over souls or where they go naturally; she can potentially send lingering ghosts to a particular location, but thats something she still has to learn to do.
She cannot divert ghosts and souls from their fated destination. She isnt arm-wrestling Hades for Elysium-bound dead.
She most definitely does not have jurisdiction over the soul of Arthur fricking Pendragon, which passed on back when her father still ruled Annwyn. And there is literally nothing in her toolset or ours to allow the summoning of someone thats moved Beyond.
You are VASTLY overestimating our influence over the setting.
Yes, I assume that's so.
We dont know how directly the White God was involved. Dude is supposed to be subtle enough that if he doesnt want you to see his hand, you wont see it; his archangels explicitly work across hundreds of years, setting up plays that bear fruit generations later across entire populations. The boss is going to be a lot better at this sort of thing.
Especially since this is a setting where life isnt restricted to Earth.
The Primordials claim to have developed spontaneously in canon 2E. But we only have their word for it.
That may not be true in this AU. And that assumes that everything they recorded themselves to have done was true; the Ebon Dragon for example, is known to be quite fond of lying.
Even without lying, there's things they take credit for that there's no evidence for; see the Maidens and their brother, who showed up out of nowhere and the Primordials immediately assumed that they created them in the future.
Last edited:
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
It was hilariously transparent even without the crown. It makes me want to pinch his cheeks.
Though I was thinking he'd be plotting something a little more problematic.
Last edited:
- Location
- Brazil
I don't think so, we were using All Things Betray and he was using the seems to be excellence in persuasion. The reason our allies took a break and turned to us is because they must have recognized a sign when we used our divination, which to be fair we have used frequently during our missions, and must have concluded that we have some important information. See how Lash asked just only what did we see?
Last edited:
Read the charm
By paying 2 Essence while crossing over into her
inner landscape, the Infernal may also bring up to a
score of willing, restrained, or unconscious individuals
along with her. Visitors to the Kingdom may stay for
as long as they wish (indeed, they may even become
permanent residents), and are free to depart whenever
they desire – so long as they are able to walk to the
border of the realm. While the Kingdom must be composed of geography which makes this possible, nothing stops the Infernal from importing soldiers to man
guard posts, or adorning the realm with prisons, natural hazards, and the like
inner landscape, the Infernal may also bring up to a
score of willing, restrained, or unconscious individuals
along with her. Visitors to the Kingdom may stay for
as long as they wish (indeed, they may even become
permanent residents), and are free to depart whenever
they desire – so long as they are able to walk to the
border of the realm. While the Kingdom must be composed of geography which makes this possible, nothing stops the Infernal from importing soldiers to man
guard posts, or adorning the realm with prisons, natural hazards, and the like
Last edited:
They are trying to subvert a fundamental law of existence: All things die. All people die.
Thats the kind of lift that would be nigh-impossible for even Celestial Exalts under most circumstances, let alone Dragon Blooded or demigods. And fifteen hundred years after the fact?
I mean, do you think the Incarna Titania would not have turned heaven and earth to get her daughter back?
If all she had to do was make a deal with Arawn to get ahold of the Cauldron?
Besides, Im not especially inclined to be generous to people who were trusted enough to be armed in another person's home, a sovereign who they came to seek a favor from. Then, when they were politely declined, took offense and drew those arms. And killed their host's spouse with them.
Thats shitbaggery under the mores under which they were raised, and an egregious violation of guest right.
Back when he was a ruling god, Odin would have murdered these guys with extreme prejudice, which is why Im not suggesting sending them to him. So would almost every other pantheon from Western Europe into India. In a world where your word is your credit rating, theirs is negative.
And even if they get out now, things arent going to look better.
Wherever they go in the supernatural world, their reputation will follow them.
And will affect who is willing to help or otherwise do business with them.
Remember Nicodemus Archleone after Skin Game? Yeah.
And they(or at least their leader) is looking to compound this by robbing the Catholic Church, one of the few institutions that might be willing to deal with them without preconceptions.
It was done with an Excellency, so he thought he could get away with it against someone who didnt know him/them.
And critically, it points at someone who you cannot trust.
The supernatural has no courts, no legal proceedings for broken contracts and promises. Just the personal reputations of actors.
Someone who already has a reputation for breaking his word, and instead of striving to make some amends to the daughter of the man he wronged is trying to ruleslawyer his way out of another deal is someone who you can never put any trust in.
And in a world where your reputation is your social credit score, thats Bad.
He demonstrates no shame, no compunction.
And frankly, it says bad things about Arthur if these are supposed to be representative of his close companions.
Then we must be the most duplicitous piece of shit to ever live. Obviously using an Excellency to speak to anyone that is duplicitous and shitty Behavior right or are you catastrophizing as you always do with any faction that isn't us. They demonstrated repentance towards the innocent person who was lost when they tried to make the attempt to steal they did not regret attempting to steal it because that would be fucking lying to our face they came here with the intent of securing an object to resurrect their leige Lord.
Persuasion excellencies aren't a thing. He was using an Excellency with a social skill to persuade us which we do every time we talk to our mother every time we talk to pretty much anyone that we feel we need to make an impression on. So again unless we are the largest duplicitous piece of shit in the modern era that's not what he did and you are being purposely obtuse.
- Location
- Estonia
But has Arthur passed on to Beyond? As far as I can tell, there are three possibilities:
1) His body was preserved fast enough before brain death - he is in a coma. Unless you are trying to argue that people who wake up from coma are soulless, then there is no reason for the soul to have passed.
2) His body was preserved right after his death and his soul has separated, but has chosen to not pass on, and is anchored either to his preserved body or its location. We know White God allows ensouled ghosts.
3) He has moved on the White God's afterlife.
You seem to have completely forgotten what it means, that they have been imprisoned for this crime about 1500 years in a small cell. If it was me, I would be running out of any supplies of shame or guilt 50 years in, for any crime, for anyone except my own miserable situation. That's something I would feel is normal human psychology.
So I think it's downright heroic that they don't suffer from the level of such total blind hatred towards Arawn, that the Crown would have shown that they plan to take horrific vengeance using Lydia, not make "amends". That was one of the reasons I voted for Crown questioning, just to be safe.
And after 1500 years, they are still loyal to Arthur, and willing to risk more for him. Even if it was ultimately because of that loyalty they got into that situation in the first place, so it would be entirely human to start resenting him.
What does inspiring loyalty like that say about Arthur?
Last edited:
- Location
- Brazil
I really think that, if the current trend continues, that when Arthur is revived he won't be amused at all by the reputation his only remaining knights have gotten or by the gigantic efforts he will have to make to increase his street credit after accepting them back, even though he will happy with their loyalty.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
In one story I remember there being a rival warlord, a proper giant named Rhitta, who wore a cloak made from the beards of the various petty kings and great figures of the land. Sometimes its done as a pure flex, sometimes for weightier reasons. When Arthur got to them... he might have cloven off his face and beard and worn it as a flex of his own.
I mean, sure, the giant absolutely deserved it but that is the sort of shit you get in that time. That is Hound of Culain-level shit. He'd probably feel personal shame for the violation of guest right, if offered, and felt that this was a general tragedy due to a tangling of oaths but he would feel shame for fairly different reasons than we might expect. He killed good men a lot because that is what you have to do when you are trying to unite a meaningful slab of humanity in that era. I'm sure he wished he didn't but... things happen.
Last edited:
[X] Yog
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open
The Fae appear to have confirmed that.
And the Fae dont lie, and have no reason to dissemble to someone who they were on good terms with. He was dying, and it was his time to go. Souls linger when it isnt.
Regardless, this was one of the reasons why I remember voting to leave this place, retreat and do research.
When the QM gives you the option, there's usually a good reason why.
We dont really have any reason to complain here.
1500 years in a prison after murdering their hostess under guest right.
I remember what the community standards prescribe for shit like this is in the supernatural world of their era, which is death AND often torture before and after death.
Ask Odin precisely what happened to Loki in the tales after the murder of Baldur.
Or Hades about what happened to Pirithous.
Indeed, one of the reasons Sisyphus got sent to Tartarus was for breaching guest right.
Make no mistake, by their own cultural mores, imprisonment with no further "enhancements" and their jailers actually not being assholes is them getting off pretty light as it is.
That Arthur inspires loyalty? Sure, reflects very well on him.
That his warband happens to break the laws and customs of society when denied?Not so much.
Im not joking when I said that based on DF canon, these guys are kinda fucked; something that happened maybe a thousand years ago is basically yesterday for immortals.
And they'll remember.
- Location
- Estonia
Out of curiosity, when? I don't remember we have talked with any Fae since learning of the situation. Wasn't it all hearsay through Arawn's dogs?
Arawn himself certainly considered this imprisonment worse than just killing them, at least. And you are talking about outside perspective and intellectual realization. Things like shame and remorse are internal, emotional states. Even if they know they should still be remorseful, nothing with near human psychology will be, after 1500 of imprisonment.
The point is, you can hold their initial actions against them, but not their emotional state after 1500 years stuck in a cell. That they are not raving mad vengeful is already damn impressive.
Last edited:
======
VOTE
[X] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open
[X] Convince them no resurrection could ever work right, and they risk Arthur's legacy and how he's remembered
-[X] Apply water to trigger Boiling Sea Mastery
-[X] Naked Wicked Souls if we think it would help
-[X] Empathy Excellency + Without Honor + Stunt + spend Willpower for an automatic success.
-[X] STUNT: You settle besides the door to the cell, water glistening in your hair even as the jailors hang back."Humor me a moment, if you would." You begin, pitching your voice to carry to all three men on the other side of the door. "I would like to share a story with you, a fable of these modern days by Stephen the son of Pollock. You see, once there was a healer named Louis, who lived in a small town with his wife Ruth and his two children, and their cat." And slowly you settle into an abridged rendition of the plot to Pet Sematary.
RATIONALE
Just to be absolutely clear of my personal opinion?
Trying to bait the Order of the Blackened Denarius with a nuke is a horrible plan that will tank our PR at best, and risks the lives of many, many people at worst.
And I want absolutely nothing to do with it.
But doing it without anything resembling up to date intel goes from dumb and horrible to suicidal.
There's a reason why the Knights of the Cross have always preferred 3:1 numerical superiority against individual Denarians.
Hearsay.
But Arawn worked for the Fae for nine hundred years, and he's right there in Lydia's head.
If its wrong, he'd have said.
I dont think thats accurate. The tenor of that entire passage is more grief than revenge.
He was a god; there are many, many fates worse than death which he could have inflicted at his disposal, as the Erlking, Hades and Mab all demonstrate in this series. And which would likely have been considered within his rights.
I dont think I agree about the human psychology argument about a lack of remorse, but I am willing to agree to disagree.
I certainly dont agree about the raving mad vengeful.
We have enough RL examples of longterm imprisonment spanning decades in mortal humans for me to dismiss that particular scenario out of hand.
- Location
- Estonia
...1500 years.
But you are right about how we should just agree to disagree on the matter. This is just distracting from the votes.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Wait what are you talking about? This would be a long-term project if we went along with it. Part of that would require gathering intel.
Reach heaven through violence