Remove ads

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Daliyah said:
[X] Do not take insight from MoSS

Effective actors with such ambitions do not risk hard-limiting themselves on whims of idealism. These kinds of sentiments are already common in our outlook and always being worked towards; some canned notion of neighbourly relations can only be detrimental to a literal spy who will need to get her hands dirty at times.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This sentiment is weird because we've kind of been pushing Ling Qi away from that direction and all the dirty work people bring up.

Ling Qi isn't a spy. At first, that was why Renxiang likely recruited her.
But then the Dreaming Moon pushed Ling Qi towards the power of dreams and both Renxiang and Ling Qi realised that "This girl/I am a diplomat who wants to bring people together. "

Just as the PLR insight defines Ling Qi's views on her 3 roles as an artist and trickster based on her patrons, the MoSS insight is one that sets a very good standard for what makes up diplomacy. Which we would need, as a cultivator whose Way is literally diplomacy.

(Make sure that people will talk and communicate and build connections. It won't stop all battles and wars, but it may prevent them. And the whole point of communities and motion/choice is to get people to the point where they can do such a thing etc etc)

[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
Last edited:
[ ] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.

This insight is pretty inoffensive, pretty nice even, but I have some reservations when it comes to our commitment long-term, especially when it comes to our official duties.

I don't just mean the spy mistress stuff, though I also mean that. The diplomatic envoy type stuff. There's bound to be times when we, as Renxiang's voice and left hand, do spy, speak demands, express dominance, etc toward people we have no particular fued with. That's the nature of Renxiang's circumstances and our role in them.

And while discomfort and friction with Renxiang is fine story-wise, having it run directly up against an Insight is... not very flexible. The easy ways out, like subordinating our sense of allegiance to Renxiang, is even worse, since it reproduced some of Jiao's biggest missteps.

Finally, we don't actually need to incorporate this insight in order to behave more or less in accordance with it. We can be a nice friendship girl without taking it, and we're not likely to cut out the make-nice-ness stuff we like about ourselves moving forwards, either.

[X] Do not take insight from MoSS

It's a no for me. Decently high chance of us running headlong into how the insight doesn't want us to act in the future, and in ways that don't seem like the productive or interesting kind to me.

Edit: cleaned up some draft messiness
 
Last edited:
This Insight defines what being a good neighbor is, intent on community and long-term interaction/coexistence. "Respect is the foundation of community" and all that. I think that description doesn't put much limits on us. We have already made distinctions between what is part of our community and what is not. Towards that that is not, nothing changes with this

You can always communicate and get information within the community, just ask and listen, understand.

I don't see where this conflicts with any "spying" we do. Like, the kind of spying LQ has done so far is external, or do you think we are an internal police or something? No need to overcomplicate it, do you want to make respect a core tenant of LQ's way or not? We are still in green, we can refine what we get here down the line, we just need to set our view straight.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.

We're a diplomat & spirit whisper more than we're a spy.
This also doesn't prevent spying on those who are not neighbours.
 
AbeoLogos said:
I don't just mean the spy mistress's stuff, though I also mean that. The diplomatic envoy type stuff. There's bound to be times when we, as Renxiang's voice and left hand, do spy, speak demands, express dominance, etc toward people we have no particular fued with. That's the nature of Renxiang's circumstances and our role in them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Right, but why would those people count as neighbors? I mean, some might occasionally, but the vast majority shouldn't. Neighbor and enemy are not the only possible categories.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.

So Ling Qi is an auntie/grandma now? Cool.
Bit earlier than expected, Zhengui got married like, just this update, but i guess some people move fast.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
Short-term, sure, this Insight might restrict Ling Qi a bit. Long-term, it's going to very usefully restrict the mostly-inhuman ghost she leaves behind when she dies, both in terms of avoiding moral drift and in terms of making its behavior safe and predictable for those who interact with it, and in motivating said ghost to do good for others.

Something to keep in mind, I think.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
yrsillar said:
But that didn't mean she couldn't participate, in her own way. Light bloomed, cut through the mist. Clear and bright, a single ray scattering the darkness to fall upon her and the ship.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

CRX uses Dramatic Spotlight! It's super effective!

yrsillar said:
"It was most joyous, smile Auntie Ling!" Gan Guangli guffawed. "Look upon your nephew's adorable face!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

ROAST HERRRRRR aaahahahhahahahha

In case you haven't looked up softshell turtles, please go find some pics. You won't regret it!

yrsillar said:
Ling Qi nodded and stood, glancing at the pond and the little tortoise swimming there. All joking aside, there was a conversation she needed to have with Zhengui.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ling Qi, "Zhengui... You got some splainin' to doooooo."

Zhengui, "Gaze upon what you have wrought, Mother"
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
[X] Do not take insight from MoSS

It seems pretty restrictive, especially as we get better and better at understanding people just by looking at them. The lesson we did with creepy spy person, looking into the dream to get insights on places and people, and our role as diplomat and spy mistress for CRX all run into friction with the insight.

We need to have the option to investigate people who we think are friends. Sometimes it's harmless like surprise parties, perfect presents, or helping them get out of a mental funk. Other times it's figuring out where issues are coming from within our (or our allies') organizations. Not everyone will be as good at HR and telepathy as we are. Having the ability to conduct an initial investigation without instantly getting people defensive or spreading information that we're doing so is handy. Being able to be a bit nosy when social propriety might not open the door for us to help also feels pretty in character.

If it didn't have the callout for spying be directly opposite from being good then I'd vote for it. As is we can just choose our behavior to be in harmony with the rest of it as votes come up.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
While I'd have to track it down in the morning, I'm quite certain that Ling Qi has already had some thoughts about the importance of respect between different groups, even if they haven't been enshrined in Concepts or Insights, so this feels like a no-brainer for me.

Edit: whoops, forgot to actually vote.

[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
Last edited:
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Right, but why would those people count as neighbors? I mean, some might occasionally, but the vast majority shouldn't. Neighbor and enemy are not the only possible categories.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ling Qi conceptualizes Community as, among other things, an existential matter of life and death. It's worth treading pretty carefully.

I also don't think defining a category of outgroup for whom the fundamental tenets of Community do not extend to is... what we want to do here? Especially one that is neither friend nor for, but a secret third thing?

That sounds like Hui stuff.

This is what I mean about the easy solutions for tension being pretty bad mistakes to make. You end up reinventing what the Insight exists to contest unless you are extremely cautious. And it's a level of finesse I'm just not sure the quest can actually manage, practically speaking.
 
I mean, you can always invent an edge case where X thing is actually bad. Especially when it's blind philosophical tetris bricks in the dark.

But Ling Qi doesn't need to be a part of every single community she comes into contact with and doesn't want to either, that doesn't force her to be good or bad to people outside, the only thing it compels is respect for people within the communities she wants to be a part of. No more, no less.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
AbeoLogos said:
Ling Qi conceptualizes Community as, among other things, an existential matter of life and death. It's worth treading pretty carefully.

I also don't think defining a category of outgroup for whom the fundamental tenets of Community do not extend to is... what we want to do here? Especially one that is neither friend nor for, but a secret third thing?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The third thing is 'stranger'...it is not a secret and, indeed, covers most people. Like...most people you encounter are neither friends or enemies and acting like they are is super weird. Not all strangers are your neighbors and the insight in no way implies they are.

It also doesn't force us to disregard strangers, which would be Hui adjacent, instead just not governing our reactions to them at all.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
The third thing is 'stranger'...it is not a secret and, indeed, covers most people. Like...most people you encounter are neither friends or enemies and acting like they are is super weird. Not all strangers are your neighbors and the insight in no way implies they are.

It also doesn't force us to disregard strangers, which would be Hui adjacent, instead just not governing our reactions to them at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A Diao scion in one of the imperial ministries stonewalling us on procedural grounds should fall under "neighbour" within the metaphor of the Insight.

I want people to consider the implications of that.
 
While I disagree with how expansively you're applying it, I at least understand where you're coming from. It probably could use a little clarification since it seems we've got a lot of different interpretations on what it could mean.

My own interpretation boils down to it functionally being "Treat others how you'd like to be treated in turn, and don't be a dick, even if you have to oppose someone". But that's in my head too.
 
Last edited:
I feel that the emphasis people keep putting on spying is somewhat misguided and just another continuation of the historic argument that anything that stops us from being some edgy black ops person is a problem.

I think the actual concerns should be around "speaks without demanding, takes without dominating" parts because they're kind of fairly anti-hierarchical? And we're kind of deeply embedded in the imperial project as both a feudal lord and retainer to Renxiang? We might put our own spin on things, and try to convince everyone to get along but we are also working within the constraints of that framework here.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top