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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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fictionfan said:
What we should do is conquer one of the neighboring hells and use it as a passageway.
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Conquer something, but I don't think we're actually in the thousand Hell's zip code. We have from the wizard interlude and DP's comments that Molly's world soul grew out into somewhere in the deep nevernever. The alien bits that don't touch earth often if at all.

The hells are a lot of things, but they're still locals to this end of creation.

Not that your idea wouldn't work, but I'd expect less Wicked City and more Unknown Kadath.

… Really as a baby world titan maybe we could actually make friends with our horrifying neighbors instead of conquering them, and gain one more thing to horrify earth with. :V

Edit:

Unrelated to this post, but something just occurred to me. Is IDU now a brawl combat enhancer?

I don't see a helpless or consenting requirement, just that they're a mortal where that mostly means not some of the major splats.

So could we slap some to grant an "oops! All flaws" build to give them the chaos spawn makeover?

The fluff from the fomor section says we make better than normal fomor with our charms because we make it clear to the demons that it's a rite of empowerment, so just the opposite of that.

It's reversible, so we could fix them afterwards as needed.

This can presumably be resisted, but anti shaping isn't the most common ability in the DF.

Edit2: error
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Unrelated to this post, but something just occurred to me. Is IDU now a brawl combat enhancer?
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Probably would have to succeed in a grapple check first to do that, I don't think just a touch would do. Although, Molly isn't actually supposed to control the outcome of the use of this charm, it's supposed to be a primarily storyteller duty I think? So she couldn't deliberately give someone an awful Fomori build.
 
powergoat said:
Probably would have to succeed in a grapple check first to do that, I don't think just a touch would do. Although, Molly isn't actually supposed to control the outcome of the use of this charm, it's supposed to be a primarily storyteller duty I think? So she couldn't deliberately give someone an awful Fomori build.
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Wouldn't need to the process is a few minutes of terrible pain. That is likely to be incapacitating and if that isn't enough she can then just rip the shadow soul right back out for 7 agg damage. However UDI only works on mortals and using a whole 3 essence to beat them in a grapple or any kind of direct combat is silly. After all Green Sun Nimbus only takes 1.

If Molly has a mortal in arm's reach IDU is just on more thing she can do to them among a long list.
 
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powergoat said:
Edit: If we were going to get more disadvantages, it should be something 'harmful' to Olivia that she could still live with, even if not easily, so it can be taken by MiS. Right now with Yog's build all MiS is doing is stoping her from craving raw meat and maybe retraining a permanent overwhelming sense of vengeance, if that is a trait of being a Creature of Darkness and not being Olivia. Seems like it is, she isn't singleminded enough for the 2dot derangement.

Also, @Yog , any chance for a slightly more flavorful unnatural appetite? 2dots doesn't give a lot of room, but maybe 'Frozen Meat' instead of 'Raw Meat', so it doesn't matter how hard it's cooked as long as it's hard as a rock? Be annoying to eat but it could by mulched or cubed still. If it were 3dots I would suggest Frozen Blood since that is more interesting to me.

Edit 2- It occurs to me that between Vengence, Higher Purpose, and Concentration, all future Olivianoids are going to be… intense creatures. With a predilection towards guns. Fun thoughts.
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Frozen meat sounds interesting. Yeah, maybe. Anyone has any other ideas? I am lacking in flavor on this one.

As to whether vengeful is IDU or Olivia and your other observation, the way I tried making it, RPG-wise, is that IDU accentuates and enhances. It makes you more. But more yourself. Olivia had an intense desire to fight the monsters that lurk the night. So, these traits. A scientist who wants to feed the world via genetic engineering probably will get curiousity or something instead of vengeful.
 
OK vote closed, looks like we are going the KOTE route. @uju32 for what it's worth we are going to get the option to go formarch in the future so that plan did not go to waste. Something like upgrading the Jade Dogs is in the cards.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 8, 2024 at 6:21 AM, finished with 528 posts and 26 votes.
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powergoat said:
Probably would have to succeed in a grapple check first to do that, I don't think just a touch would do. Although, Molly isn't actually supposed to control the outcome of the use of this charm, it's supposed to be a primarily storyteller duty I think? So she couldn't deliberately give someone an awful Fomori build.
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I've argued similar, but it's clearly been modified for the quest. Moreover, this is the fluff for part of how exactly it's different:
DragonParadox said:
While the process is a chaotic and dangerous it is not malicious unless you choose to make it so you can converse with the demons and tell them that this is meant to be a rite of empowerment, or in the case of making your Hell Realm define how spirit and mortal flesh will merge inside your world soul.
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Says right on the tin that we're going out of our way to make it play nice. Don't see why we couldn't be even worse instead.

Edit: error
 
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A splendor design for Lash:

Splendor Adornment
A pair of elegant five finger chain rings, both the bracelet and the rings are made of solid brass, while the chains connecting them seem to be spun of solidified shadows, which, at closer inspection, turn out to be obsidian, worked into the shape by means no mortal can hope to replicate without at the very least decades of efforts and resources of a modern nation.
An adornment remains manifested for a scene. It costs 1 Faith point to manifest
The difficulty to affect Tiffany with hostile works of glamour increases by 1
Mortals take a willpower roll at DC5 to notice magical effect
Tiffany gains ability to use medicine from 5 yards away. This means that she can use Lore of Flesh and Lore of Awakening from 5 yards away.
The Splendor takes the form of something that is evocative of the fantastic. It might be a child's
toy, a brightly-decorated banner, a monster or carnival mask, or a treasure chest. It might be a
kaleidoscope, or a bundle of bright balloons. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form
and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the power of the Dreaming. Other
Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor stands out as a powerful work of magic when seen with chimerical eyes or mystic
scrutiny, but it seems nigh-impossible to credit it with any specific significance if observed with
purely mundane senses. Even when presented with compelling evidence that there's something
weird about the object, anyone who hasn't made a magical survey of the Splendor must make a
Willpower roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to accept such a conclusion.
As an Adornment, it raises the difficulty to affect the user with hostile works of Glamour by one.
As the basis for a Fascination, it may have one minor impossible feature such as floating in
defiance of gravity, reflecting people's true selves when looked into, or aging backwards in time.
This Element can only be part of an Adornment.
The Splendor allows the Exalt to use one particular Ability, such as Larceny or Brawl, from
much farther away than she really ought to be able. The Exalt can act from (Splendor's rating) x
5 yards past her normal limits.
The design of the bracelets evolve. Instead of a plain, if polished and obviously high quality bracelets, now miniature dragons, the perfect reproductions of the Dragons of Dark and Light encircle their wearer's wrist, forever trying to consume themselves. The rings are now inscribed in language that might, to some learned scholars, resemble enochian script, proclaiming to the world the absolute surety of their master's will and their doman over all forms of life.
It now takes 1 Faith point for the splendor to stay manifested for a day
The distance Tiffany can use medicine rolls from is now 15 yards
Tiffany cannot botch Intelligence + Medicine rolls and gets either +1 (unopposed ) or +2 (opposed) successes on those rolls
Tiffany rolls Intelligence + Medicine at -2 DC

This Splendor defines a rigid certainty and imposes it upon existence.
When used in an Adornment, define a specific roll of (Attribute) + (Ability) and a specialty that
it falls under. When the user makes such a roll, she cannot botch and cannot fail regardless of the
difficulty. No matter what, she always generates at least one success. If this roll is opposed by
another character, Invincible Assertion instead adds two bonus successes.
When used in a Fascination, define a specific roll of (Attribute) + (Ability) and a specialty that it
falls under. Under circumstances defined by the Splendor, such rolls cannot fail in its presence,
and always generate at least one success. If such a roll is opposed, it adds two bonus successes.
This Element may be incorporated into a Splendor more than once.
The Splendor's power is flawed, and its curses and blessings cannot maintain their hold for long.
Select one Element of the Splendor whose effects last for a limited time. That Element's
maximum duration is decreased by one category (from one month to one week, one week to to
one day, and so on). If the duration is already "one day," the Element is reduced to one hour.
Taking this Element grants one additional Element point, which must be spent on a Mystic
Element.
One of the Splendor's snares or benefits is particularly wicked or potent. Modify one roll
associated with the Splendor by increasing or decreasing its difficulty by two, or modify one
value associated with activating or resisting its effects (such as the number of points of
Willpower that must be spent to shake off a Beautiful Lie) by two.
Here, like in most of my designs, we can go one of the two ways - either Tiffany as a super healer, or Lash as a combat controller and shaper of flesh. Personally, I favor the latter, but that's me. I want my craft. The differences aren't too big, not like in my other designs. In both versions, mechanically we get the following

The splendor now stays active for 1 week after manifesting for 1 faith point
Tiffany can now use medicine from 25 yards away
Stamina + Medicine and Dexterity + Medicine are now rolled at -2 DC
Either Stamina + Medicine or Dexterity + Medicine now cannot botch and get either +1 or +2 successes depending on if the roll is opposed or not (+2 if opposed).

Build:
Mystic Fortification (1 pt. Mystic Element): Intelligence + Medicine -2 DC
Mystic Fortification (1 pt. Mystic Element): Dexterity + Medicine -2 DC
Invincible Assertion (3 pt. Root Element) : Intelligence + Medicine or Dexterity + Medicine

So, what's the idea? The idea is that Lore of Flesh is busted broken in terms of offensive capability. Body Control (Flesh 1) lets you put someone in a coma on success. Each turn. Manipulate Flesh allows you to remove 1 dot from either Physical or Mental Attribute for a scene. This can be resisted with a Willpower roll at difficulty 8. So, let's roll the calcs:
1) Lash Buffs her own intelligence to 10 for a scene with Manipulate Flesh. She now has 15 dice to roll. The difficulty of the roll is 7-2=5
2) On average, assuming 1s subtract successes (I am unsure if they do in this case), she gets 9 successes. 11, because the roll is opposed.
3) Her opponent gets to roll opposed Willpower. Let's assume that they have Willpower 10. At difficulty 8, that's 3 successes.
4) At the difference of 11-3=8, TIffany gets to remove 8 points of physical or mental attributes for a scene. She removes everything from stamina, and the rest from dexterity if the target's stamina is within mortal limits. The target also takes 8-initital stamina unsoakable bashing damage
5) Second turn starts. The target now has stamina 0, and some manner of stamina removal. Assuming initial stamina 6 (mildly superhuman), that's -2 dexterity, and also they took 2 bashing damage last turn.

You see where I am going with this, right? Lash gets both buffs and debuffs.
 
In terms of utility this is pretty limited, though a full asshole infernal could get more out of it.

Just about the only place being able to do this at combat time would be meaningful to us is if Denarians outside of their combat forms count as mortals, since the fallen have really strict limits on what they can do to a host without making them invalid bearers for the coins.

The actual angel should have shaping defenses, but they can't just use their powers for the host. I'm especially curious about how their restrictions would interact with IDU's Po soul mode, because technically what we'd be doing is giving one half of the mortal's soul a big power boost and telling it to go wild.

Wakeful Pos seem to really easily fall into resenting their Hun halves based on all the two fighting, and I doubt many people in that particular group are spiritually healthy. I don't think it'd even really take much of a push to name them fight like this.

So what do the rules heaven has laid down say about sudden onset spiritual autoimmune diseases?

When Lash was working on Harry for the purposes of the quest his Po was able to actively undermine and interact with her, but not fully make any deals. Similarly, Hun!Harry had final say but needed Po!Harry to do anything more complicated like containing her. That's with clear dominance of the Hun too, not contested space.

The fallen need free will from their host to act, and it sounds like this fight interferes with that. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not allowed to apply supernatural force to internal conflicts like this precisely so that they can't do things like juice up Po!Harry to take the wheel instead of convincing the whole soul to do with via social manipulation.

Edit:

Using IDU as a weapon I mean, should have been more explicit.
 
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Arc 12 Post 3: Shrouded No More
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    • Shrouded No More ​

    18th of January 2007 A.D.

    It is always cold when you are around, but now the air in the apartment seems to freeze in place. There's a crack and the sound of glass shattering, the balcony door as Olivia screams, the sound of breaking glass, of breaking ice seeming to come from her throat as well as she thrashes on the bed. You can only watch on in horror, instinctively aware you cannot stop the process, only undo it once it has run its course. Alone of everything in the room her shadow had not moved, still stretching out from bed to floral wallpaper. Weighed down with essence it stretches in ways that human joints were never meant to bend, it pounces, a cloud of frozen darkness enveloping the girl on the bed as she thrashes as though in the grip of a nightmare. Phantom limbs tear their way out of her shoulders only to fade like smoke: wings of bird, bat, reptile and insect burst from her back only to close around her in an onyx cocoon. For one terrible instant it looks like she can't breathe. Then she takes a breath.

    Her eyes snap open, the brown of her iris almost wholly consumed by the black of her pupil and in that blackness for a moment you glimpse a familiar storm. Pillows and blankets fly off the bed and the end table would have fallen over too if you hadn't reached out to hold it in place as knives of super-cooled ice out of the Deep Wastes hiss through the air to pepper everything in the room, a killing wind made manifest.

    Olivia flinches, the feeling of her will drawing back wholly indescribable, like you had just discovered an entirely new sense pointed in a direction you did not know existed before.

    "Fuck, I'm sorry!" Her voice is still raw from screaming.

    "I'm the one who should be sorry." The answer bursts out. Intellectually you had known this would be painful, but not like this.

    "No, no, that's OK. I asked for this." She gets up slowly, but with a kind of eerie grace like she is moving through water not air. "It's all so clear and sharp now, translucent layers like like a glass onion. Beyond and between the storm rages, but you're the storm. It's all very strange, almost like I could...."

    She does not finish the sentence, indeed from where you are standing she briefly ceases existing, a whoosh of cold air rushing in to fill the space she had occupied only to fade into the world on the other side of the room, looking none the worst for wear other than a few strands of hair having worked their way out of her ponytail.

    "Whoa!" Olivia waves her hand in front of her face. "That's a trip, feels like being on rails if the rails are made of air and also 2D. Nice to see I have all my dimensions back."

    "So you are really alright with this?" you ask, still feeling guilty as heck. "I can take it back if you like."

    A look of what might almost be called panic flashes over her face. "No, I definitely want to keep this. For the first time in ever it feels like I'm doing something, like I'm doing magic instead of having it happen to me, sliding out of sight, out of mind." She walks over to the glass door and picks up a shard, running her fingers across the edge. "Neat." Letting the shard drop and shatter at her feet she giggles, a little breathlessly. "No more hiding from monsters for me, no more worrying some vampire is going to corner me in an alley like that one did to Eve. If some lunatic takes a pot shot at me I'm shooting back."

    "Yeah, I think you could match one of them for speed if you wanted to..." though not for precision, you do not add aloud. The unbound Po has many advantages over the symbiotic Hunger that empowers the White Court, there is still only one mind in there, no co-pilot to steer a precise course at unnatural speed. Though perhaps it is better to say no co-pilot so long as Olivia counts as being under your Aegis. The desires of the shadow-soul are at best selfish, at worst the stuff of nightmares.

    "So what are we going to tell Anna and the others?" The something of the earlier excitement had faded from her voice. "I could say I'm a late bloomer but A that sounds really weird when you say it aloud like that and B I feel like you now, darker magically. Are you OK talking about Sanctuary stuff and awakenings or... how do you wanna do this?"

    [] Tell the other members of the order that Olivia just had some training, it is technically true, just not all of the truth

    [] Explain more of what you are, your inner world and your power to grant spiritual boons

    [] Write in

    OOC: To answer the question yes Hellweaving you grant can technically harm you, Molly does not have enough controll of her higher self to turn off th faucet dymanically. She either strips the power entirely or she has to take the hits. Thankfully she soaked everything this time around.
     
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    • DragonParadox said:
    OOC: To answer the question yes Hellweaving you grant can technically harm you, Molly does not have enough controll of her higher self to turn off th faucet dymanically. She either strips the power entirely or she has to take the hits. Thankfully she soaked everything this time around.
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    "If you cannot make your minions physically incapable of harming you make yourself physically incapable of being harmed by them." - Some Yozi probably.
     
    Ah, I see your fluffing Olivia's abilities as connections to the great storm, that both hides and destroys? Her teleportation and I assume her clairvoyance are skimming through her everprent connection to Mollys hell to render space more of a suggestion?
     
    powergoat said:
    Ah, I see your fluffing Olivia's abilities as connections to the great storm, that both hides and destroys? Her teleportation and I assume her clairvoyance are skimming through her everprent connection to Mollys hell to render space more of a suggestion?
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    Her teleportation does not go though Molly's hell, it is too remote, what she does instead is use the Veil as though it were a road and then tips herself Earth-ward

    No7sHere said:
    Can we turn these abilities off from a distance and do they disappear if we die?
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    1. Nope, you have to touch her to take back the gift of inner-darkness
    2. The hellweaving might go away if you die, Molly is not sure, but she gets to keep the rest unless you specifically strip them. Of course she would also have to deal with having an awakened Po without MiS which does not sound like fun.
     
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    I think full disclosure is inevitable, but we must tread carefully. And especially in the sense that we can give power in transactions. This may send the wrong message. But I think it would be extremely unwise to lie to them.
     
    Ivar said:
    And especially in the sense that we can give power in transactions.
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    We should try selling the idea that in order to be "blessed" you need to swear loyalty to Molly. Without MiS in effect you'd be getting screwed over by flaws which would help sell the idea. If you take the power while not intending to serve in anyway you keep it but suffer a "curse" of various afflictions.
     
    BronzeTongue said:
    In terms of utility this is pretty limited, though a full asshole infernal could get more out of it.

    Just about the only place being able to do this at combat time would be meaningful to us is if Denarians outside of their combat forms count as mortals, since the fallen have really strict limits on what they can do to a host without making them invalid bearers for the coins.

    The actual angel should have shaping defenses, but they can't just use their powers for the host. I'm especially curious about how their restrictions would interact with IDU's Po soul mode, because technically what we'd be doing is giving one half of the mortal's soul a big power boost and telling it to go wild.

    Wakeful Pos seem to really easily fall into resenting their Hun halves based on all the two fighting, and I doubt many people in that particular group are spiritually healthy. I don't think it'd even really take much of a push to name them fight like this.

    So what do the rules heaven has laid down say about sudden onset spiritual autoimmune diseases?

    When Lash was working on Harry for the purposes of the quest his Po was able to actively undermine and interact with her, but not fully make any deals. Similarly, Hun!Harry had final say but needed Po!Harry to do anything more complicated like containing her. That's with clear dominance of the Hun too, not contested space.

    The fallen need free will from their host to act, and it sounds like this fight interferes with that. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not allowed to apply supernatural force to internal conflicts like this precisely so that they can't do things like juice up Po!Harry to take the wheel instead of convincing the whole soul to do with via social manipulation.

    Edit:

    Using IDU as a weapon I mean, should have been more explicit.
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    Actually, wait a second: are denarians allowed to make non-mortals hosts? Can a whampire or a rhampire be a denarian? Wizards can, but they are still kinda-sorta mortals. I... don't think we ever saw an immortal denarian. And it it's an actual restriction, would IDU expel denarians from their hosts?
     
    Yog said:
    Actually, wait a second: are denarians allowed to make non-mortals hosts? Can a whampire or a rhampire be a denarian? Wizards can, but they are still kinda-sorta mortals. I... don't think we ever saw an immortal denarian. And it it's an actual restriction, would IDU expel denarians from their hosts?
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    According to Lash they can go as far as a White Court vampire or similar, a being that still has free will, even if they are under some other influence.
     
    [X] Tell the Order that Olivia has been empowered through a combination of intense training to develop her natural talents and a spiritual boon you were able to bestow upon her. Such boons are not trivially granted, nor are they freely given, as earning that power requires one to enter our service.
     
    [X] Tell the Order that Olivia has been empowered through a combination of intense training to develop her natural talents and a spiritual boon you were able to bestow upon her. Such boons are not trivially granted, nor are they freely given, as earning that power requires one to enter our service.
     
    Ivar said:
    I think full disclosure is inevitable, but we must tread carefully. And especially in the sense that we can give power in transactions. This may send the wrong message. But I think it would be extremely unwise to lie to them.
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    We can't actually. We can grant boons, but we can't do actual trades fueled by / supported by an exchange going both ways.

    [X] Explain more of what you are, your inner world and your power to grant spiritual boons
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] Present it as a journey of discovery. You are still learning what you are and what you can do. And developing new capabilities.

    We can actually give such boons without people entering our service. It's good for others to know that we can do it. There are several reasons for that:
    1) We (I) don't need (only) yes-people. We also need competent advisors who can tell us "no, you are wrong and are being stupid" without fearing their immortality going away
    2) We (I) want to use the IDU and other empowerment charms on people who don't directly work for us. Allies, friends, family even. Friends of friends.
    3) We (I) don't want to have every empowered by us person to be considered our servants. If only to be able to conceal servants within the non-servant population.

    And yeah, I think Order of Cauldron is not stupid, and they know that Molly is not an average mage.
     
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