Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Isabella is a Whampire already.

A strange one, since she can't control her demon without our influence and would kill someone without the MiS effect, as certainly as any White Court virgin, but otherwise fully vampiric.
 
Isabella is a Whampire already.

A strange one, since she can't control her demon without our influence and would kill someone without the MiS effect, as certainly as any White Court virgin, but otherwise fully vampiric.

Which makes Cavalar's point even more moot.

And when it comes to *harming people* to feed our whampires:

They have better control, so no risks of actual harm when feeding, so that's another moot point.

The maggots would help on some things, but they are not required now. Because our situation isn't on the verge of crashing and burning.

Edit:

Thanks for the confimation, by the way, I wasn't sure about that and thus didn't talk about it.

In that light, I am pretty sure Dragon's words where about allowing Isabella to control her demon without our help, not having her able to do Whampire things.
 
Last edited:
Which makes Cavalar's point even more moot.

And when it comes to *harming people* to feed our whampires:

They have better control, so no risks of actual harm when feeding, so that's another moot point.

The maggots would help on some things, but they are not required now. Because our situation isn't on the verge of crashing and burning.
It would matter much more if we used our Vamps in high-intesity. Combat and such.

Redtoring you blood/chi pool with tiny bites from dozens of people would be far too slow for that, I suspect.

But we don't, so they can live well on diet.
 
It would matter much more if we used our Vamps in high-intesity. Combat and such.

Redtoring you blood/chi pool with tiny bites from dozens of people would be far too slow for that, I suspect.

But we don't, so they can live well on diet.

Yep, that's the thing, maggot is for fast eating, not for day to day life.

Also, edited a thanks in my previous post while you were posting.
 
Counter-attack charms tend to ignore range, at least at our level.
And of course, Sandstrike Blast gives you an AoE attack thats the radius of heavy artillery.
No they don't.
spattering grease reprisal (••••)
Whenever a foe is unwise enough to strike at the Infernal,
she splashes back at them, meeting violence with violence. System: Spend 2 Essence reflexively to activate this Charm. For the next (Essence rating + 1) turns, the Infernal responds to every attack that successful- ly strikes her by launching a reflexive counterattack at her full dice pool, if it's possible to strike back at the attacker. Whenever struck by an attack she cannot re- taliate against, she adds two dice to the damage of her
next successful counterattack during the scene. Signature Effect: Spattering Grease Reprisal is always active at no cost while the Infernal wears her Shintai form
ready in eight direCtions stanCe (•••••)
The Solar directs Essence into her killing intent until it becomes a deadly guardian angel guiding her motions by sheer instinct, cutting down those who would strike at her.
System: Spend 2 Essence reflexively to activate this Charm. For the next (Essence rating) turns, the Solar responds to every attack against her by launching a reflexive counterattack at her full dice pool, if it's possible to strike back at the attacker.
Writhing serpent deFense (••••)
The Lunar moves in deceptive and confusing pat- terns, tempting her enemies to overextend and expose themselves, then striking viciously.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the rest of the scene, the first time each turn the Lunar successfully dodges a close-range attack, she may make an immediate reflexive counterattack against the opponent she dodged
Abyssals actually don't seem to have an option for this, and Sidereals need their martial arts bullshit.
 
[X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
[X]Plan Saints and Sinners

Girl has done some wild shit in the time we've known her.
For a demigod she's positively well behaved.

Though if she offers to send Daniel on a day trip to the shadow realm again we should start a scoreboard comparing her to the ancient Greeks. In Character.


3) Exorcism to make him human, then IDU if he wants to get "back in the game"
This is not a trivial thing to do to someone.

Remember that at minimum you're taking a life expectancy in the thousands of years and cutting it to a century. People will rightfully balk at that if there's any way to avoid being a total monster while keeping their whampness.
3. Isabella canonically can't become a whampire without Maggots, DragonParadox ruled on it
She's already whamp, she's talked about feeding before. She just can't learn enough control to do anything with it without Molly's Support charms unless she eats a person's worth of power.

Maggots being able to do the job isn't the same as it being the only way to do it either. We have an option that won't cost exp to use and is a mechanically superior way of doing the job.

The spirit stoking root on a space form with HS; should pack everyone inside with food and save us the trouble of needing to spend AP feeding them.
 
1. You are manipulating, of course, because he wants to remove the flaw of his curse, we don't know his opinion on being whampire without killing people.
2. You seem to forget that ghouls can't use their powers without Maggots, Isabella can't become full-fledged vampire without Maggots or killing people. She and Thomas can't use Disciplines without Maggots or feeding on people.
1) Which is why Inner Devils Unchained is on the list of purchases, among other things. Removing Mutt's demon and replacing it with fomorization is an option too.
2) Non-lethally feeding on people is something the thread seems to acknowledge as tolerable when it comes to our minions. There are ethical(ish) ways to feed.
3. Isabella canonically can't become a whampire without Maggots, DragonParadox ruled on it.
Not exactly. Isabela can't gain natural control over her hunger without killing someone or using MMP.
This is not a trivial thing to do to someone.

Remember that at minimum you're taking a life expectancy in the thousands of years and cutting it to a century. People will rightfully balk at that if there's any way to avoid being a total monster while keeping their whampness.
That's true. Which is why FSB is also an option, as is IDU after his normal demon is removed.

In general, making an immortality-granting splendor is also something on the list of things I want. We already have an approved "make pseudo-dragonblooded" design, after all.
 
Which makes Cavalar's point even more moot.

And when it comes to *harming people* to feed our whampires:

They have better control, so no risks of actual harm when feeding, so that's another moot point.

The maggots would help on some things, but they are not required now. Because our situation isn't on the verge of crashing and burning.

Edit:

Thanks for the confimation, by the way, I wasn't sure about that and thus didn't talk about it.

In that light, I am pretty sure Dragon's words where about allowing Isabella to control her demon without our help, not having her able to do Whampire things.
So, we should rely on the possibility that Isabella and ghouls wouldn't need use their power in combat? OK. And that she should be bound by MiS forever, if she doesn't want to kill anyone with her first feeding?
I mean, I do not see someone willing to hear arguments when I watch you talking with Yog, so....
And you decided to get offended on Yog's behalf, while we had a perfectly civil discussion?
 
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One last try, now including Companions of the Hunter for Lydia in hopes of convincing some of y'all to switch.

For those who voted for my previous plan, if this is an issue, let me know and I can change it back.

[X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
-[X] Molly - 60 XP
--[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
--[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
--[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
--[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
--[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
--[X] Total XP Spent: 40
-[X] Lydia - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
--[X] Purchase Companions of the Hunter (12 XP)
--[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
-[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 7 Molly XP
--[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
-[X] Unspent XP: 1
 
Tried to manage votes to show aggregated results. Tell me please, if I've made any mistakes.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Mar 3, 2024 at 8:37 AM, finished with 287 posts and 28 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchasing Running to Forever (4 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Countermagic [Human] (3 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 47
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots [5 XP]
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Unspent XP: 1
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X]Plan Standing in the Arena
    -[X]MOLLY: 50XP (10 pts sent to party members, 0 pt unspent)
    --[X]The City Still Stands: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]When the Tigers Broke Free: 2 dot: 6 XP
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X]LASH: 25(Base 15 + Molly 10)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 3: Heal: 10xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 15(Base 15)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
 
Tried to manage votes to show aggregated results. Tell me please, if I've made any mistakes.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Mar 3, 2024 at 8:37 AM, finished with 287 posts and 28 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchasing Running to Forever (4 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Countermagic [Human] (3 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 47
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots [5 XP]
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Unspent XP: 1
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X]Plan Standing in the Arena
    -[X]MOLLY: 50XP (10 pts sent to party members, 0 pt unspent)
    --[X]The City Still Stands: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]When the Tigers Broke Free: 2 dot: 6 XP
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X]LASH: 25(Base 15 + Molly 10)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 3: Heal: 10xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 15(Base 15)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
Something went wrong with your combining. It should look like this.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 3, 2024 at 8:55 AM, finished with 294 posts and 31 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 40
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Companions of the Hunter (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 7 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Unspent XP: 1
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    [x] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defense
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
 
Something went wrong with your combining. It should look like this.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 3, 2024 at 8:55 AM, finished with 294 posts and 31 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 40
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Companions of the Hunter (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 7 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Unspent XP: 1
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    [x] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defense
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
Shouldn't you add people who voted for the name of the plan for the relevant options? Like Ysarc or Sesparra? Also, several people voted since I tried to post the plan, so that maybe the reason?
 
Last edited:
Thats the exact thing I quoted upthread, only I quoted the entire section. With context.
It seems pretty clear to me.

Let me recap:
  • Molly uses Demonic Primacy of Essence, which is a Mind Sphere/Fascination Path effect in magic terms
  • She is a Tier 2 Alchemist, where Alchemy allows you to reproduce effects from all the Paths. Alchemy 2 will canonically allow you to make super-LSD that gives prophetic visions, and to outright give people superhuman feats like sprinting at 2x normal speed for a scene.
  • She is Occult 5, which puts her amongst the top tiers of magical experts in the world, and she's been discussing this stuff with Bob, another top tier expert.
  • She is an Ancient Sorcerer, wielding magics that Creation hasnt seen in a long time.
  • She is an Infernal Exalt, a Solaroid, and by all indications, a Twilight to boot.

Any one of these is sufficient authority to wield both Countermagic and Unweaving across the spectrum once she spends the XP to actually buy it for a particular type of magic.
I cannot countenance how you think she needs to jump more hoops for any of this.
The reason I think there are more Hoops jump through is because that is what the text and the spirit of the rules for Sorcerers are. That would make sorcerer unweaving more flexible than Mage Unweaving. As a sorcerer you use path Magic that is less flexible then awakened Magic the reading that you're supposing ignores English syntax and makes it so sorcerer's that Knows basic hypnotism can undo a mind sphere 5 mind wipe. Just like you can't use multiple paths at the same time the intent is very clear you're not supposed to be able to unweave an effect you have no magical ability to either imitate or use. Mage unweaving requires the Mage to have one dot in Prime plus one dot in each sphere used in the original spell the end they can't use any ability or knowledge outside of that so why would sorcerer unweaving be better.
 
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So do we actually have a mechanic for how SGI is supposed to help? Cause no supernatural stuff can cross over and they have mortal limits, so it isn't a straightforward exp/AP adder.

AP hell is how these games work, there's no such thing as a cure.
 
Wouldn't hurt, but I didn't notice others, just that you hadn't combined mine correctly.
Yeah, I messed up somewhere probably, sorry.

Also:

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
-[X] Molly, 41 XP
--[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
--[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
--[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
--[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
--[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
--[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
-[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
--[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
--[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
--[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP

[X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
 
So do we actually have a mechanic for how SGI is supposed to help? Cause no supernatural stuff can cross over and they have mortal limits, so it isn't a straightforward exp/AP adder.

AP hell is how these games work, there's no such thing as a cure.
Well there are weirder things but even if the Clones act as just a kind of weird Library background for the things they learn they would be worth having. The Clones learn a skill or martial arts to a certain level and when we eat them and we decide to attempt to learn what they learned maybe we get a x dot dice roll discount on the XP or something along those lines like the library background. Because we do absorb them and learn what they know even if we don't commit that to memory instantly. So I can see it in that light but yeah I fully agree on the AP hell thing that it's never going away.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Mar 3, 2024 at 9:10 AM, finished with 302 posts and 32 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Inner Devil Unchained (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 40
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Companions of the Hunter (12 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 7 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Unspent XP: 1
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Practical Solutions
 
So do we actually have a mechanic for how SGI is supposed to help? Cause no supernatural stuff can cross over and they have mortal limits, so it isn't a straightforward exp/AP adder.

AP hell is how these games work, there's no such thing as a cure.
Even if they are pure humans (i.e. no passive bonuses like DPE, CCC, BSM, heal like mortals, etc), and IDU cannot be used on them, there's still alchemy. Alchemy 4 - get one recipe as some manner of study aid (DC adjustment on learning new stuff), then plot our clones in our best universities, or with private tutors. We should be able to get stuff like Politics, Finances, etc to at least 1 dot in a couple of months.
 
So do we actually have a mechanic for how SGI is supposed to help? Cause no supernatural stuff can cross over and they have mortal limits, so it isn't a straightforward exp/AP adder.

AP hell is how these games work, there's no such thing as a cure.
It's a lot of XP to spending something that won't be very useful right now or possibly in the future.

That's not to say it isn't worth acquiring at some point, but we have better things to focus on right now. Like BMI, which will let us hide our aura, perfectly disguise our appearance, and always have the right clothing for any situation.
 
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