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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Cavalar said:
3) So, you recruited a whampire minion to make him human, I see. Is it even possible to exorcise whampire, @DragonParadox ?
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I mean, a big part of recruiting it wasn't to use him as a Vampire, it was because his situation was shit and we can help, and one way to do that is making him human, there is no contradiction here.
 
[X] Plan Feeding and Healing

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2

I much prefer the first version, the rationale for MMP buys me, but it seems that v2 has much better chance of passing and clones are higher priority.
 
Yog said:
1) Yes, I did. It's not exactly optimal, but we are going to be crafting a lot soon anyway, since we owe archive, it makes sense to put all the crafting actions together
2) SGI is a training booster, or should be. Those are best bought as early as possible. Ideally we should be able to pawn off school onto a clone, and, if not, put clones onto learning stuff in the courts. IDU synergies well with Lydia's Companions of the Hunter.
3) Yes, Whampires can be exorcised using the same rules as turning fomori human. It's one of the possible options for handling Mutt, not the only option. If he wants out, I say we provide him an option to get out. He is suffering from a horrible medical condition, after all.
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1) So, AP hell is bad only in certain circumstances, I see.
2) Don't forget that SGI makes clones really vulnerable outside Molly's soul. There was a prolonged discussion about this. Also, your explanation for IDU is not really that convincing, it's just "I want to test out synergy". It can be done in the arc after next one.
3) The out for him is possible even with Maggots, we already have the relevant sorcery. But Maggots are useful for all minions, you don't forget that Isabella has been waiting for it a long time, do you?
 
Nyarky said:
I mean, a big part of recruiting it wasn't to use him as a Vampire, it was because his situation was shit and we can help, and one way to do that is making him human, there is no contradiction here.
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The exorcism was on the table even before this arc. But what if Mutt wants to stay a whampire? Why should he trade the curse he has experience with for some random one from IDU? Don't forget about ghouls and Isabella too.
 
Can I interest anyone in a plan that includes both BMI and SGI, at the cost of IDU?

The two Charms would have a lot of synergy, IMO.

I don't really care about SGI or IDU, I'm just throwing shit at the wall now and hoping enough sticks that BMI remains in the running.

EDIT: Reverting to previous plan.
 
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[X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog

[X] Plan Feeding and Healing

Cavalar said:
Can do Awareness 3, can't do BMI, because people already voted for my plan and that big XP transfer will invalidate their opinion. Is BMI a deal-breaker?
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I'm pretty much approval voting anything with Awakening 3 and Companions of the Hunter. The BMI mention was just because Goldfish is trying to get more people to vote for things with BMI.

Edit: and realized I typed awareness 3, which I don't care about, because it's 6am here and I'm still up :p
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 3, 2024 at 5:54 AM, finished with 266 posts and 28 votes.
  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 48
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    [x] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defense
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
    [X]Plan Standing in the Arena
    -[X]MOLLY: 50XP (10 pts sent to party members, 0 pt unspent)
    --[X]The City Still Stands: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]When the Tigers Broke Free: 2 dot: 6 XP
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X]LASH: 25(Base 15 + Molly 10)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 3: Heal: 10xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 15(Base 15)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
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DragonParadox said:
This line:

--[] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)

...shows up under both Molly and Tiffany so the Tally program thinks it is redundant the second time. Change one of the lines somehow and that should fix it.
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Yep, that fixed it.

Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Mar 3, 2024 at 6:22 AM, finished with 271 posts and 28 votes.
  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Purchase Black Mirror Incarnation (15 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alertness to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 4 Dots (6 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent: 48
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany - 15 XP, plus 12 Molly XP
    --[X] Purchase Awareness up to 2 Dots [5 XP]
    --[X] Purchase Lore of Awakening up to 3 Dots (22 XP)
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    [x] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defense
    [X] Practical Solutions
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    -[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
    -[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 58
    ---[X] Lydia
    --[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
    --[X] Total XP Spent 16
    ---[X] Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    --[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
    –[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
    [X]Plan Standing in the Arena
    -[X]MOLLY: 50XP (10 pts sent to party members, 0 pt unspent)
    --[X]The City Still Stands: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]When the Tigers Broke Free: 2 dot: 6 XP
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X]LASH: 25(Base 15 + Molly 10)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 3: Heal: 10xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 15(Base 15)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
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Cavalar said:
1) So, AP hell is bad only in certain circumstances, I see.
2) Don't forget that SGI makes clones really vulnerable outside Molly's soul. There was a prolonged discussion about this. Also, your explanation for IDU is not really that convincing, it's just "I want to test out synergy". It can be done in the arc after next one.
3) The out for him is possible even with Maggots, we already have the relevant sorcery. But Maggots are useful for all minions, you don't forget that Isabella has been waiting for it a long time, do you?
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1) No, AP hell is bad in general. To relieve it I am proposing to buy SGI. In terms of AP economy, it's best to do massive craft projects or series of craft projects by bundling them together into an AP + bonus AP, since bonus AP can be used to extend actions, but not initiate new ones. For this reason, it's better to accumulate series of crafting projects, then do them all at once.
2) The vulnerability of the clones is a point of serious contention, and consensus hasn't been reached. My personal opinion is that with certain precautions, such as having cyberdevil-bound items, school should be doable for clones. I forget if IDU can be used on the clones. If it can, that's another reason to purchase it.
3) I did not forget about Isabela, no, and personally would prefer MMP over IDU, but this is a compromise position
 
Cavalar said:
The exorcism was on the table even before this arc. But what if Mutt wants to stay a whampire? Why should he trade the curse he has experience with for some random one from IDU? Don't forget about ghouls and Isabella too.
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The fact that he would be willing to remove the curse is not really a question, guy hates being a Whampire.

If he doesn't want the side effects of IDU, then he can stay human, it's that simple.

The ghouls are handled, Isabella is too, don't know why you're talking about them, they are not relevant.
 
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If Lash learns Lore of Awakening to 3 Dots, won't she be able to heal Harry's aggravated damage?
 
Nyarky said:
The fact that he would be willing to remove the curse is not really a question, guys hates being a Whampire.
If he doesn't want the side effects of IDU, then he can stay human, it's that simple.
The ghouls are handled, Isabella is too, don't know why you're talking about them, they are not relevant.
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1. You are manipulating, of course, because he wants to remove the flaw of his curse, we don't know his opinion on being whampire without killing people.
2. You seem to forget that ghouls can't use their powers without Maggots, Isabella can't become full-fledged vampire without Maggots or killing people. She and Thomas can't use Disciplines without Maggots or feeding on people.
 
Cavalar said:
1. You are manipulating, of course, because he wants to remove the flaw of his curse, we don't know his opinion on being whampire without killing people.
2. You seem to forget that ghouls can't use their powers without Maggots, Isabella can't become full-fledged vampire without Maggots or killing people. She and Thomas can't use Disciplines without Maggots or feeding on people.
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Of course I am manipulating, all conversation is manipulation.

But to be frank:

You are the one talking bullshit right now.

We know what he thinks of being a Whampire, that is one of the reasons we took him, because we did read him and saw he thought his curse sucked ass.

Right now, the guy would probably be willing to do far more, we did get several rolls about that.

As for the ghouls and Whampires under us:

You are inventing problems. They are already working, we are seeing no signs of them having problems or being outright unable to do anything.
 
Nyarky said:
Of course I am manipulating, all conversation is manipulation.

But to be frank:

You are the one talking bullshit right now.

We know what he thinks of being a Whampire, that is one of the reasons we took him, because we did read him and saw he thought his curse sucked ass.

Right now, the guy would probably be willing to do far more, we did get several rolls about that.

As for the ghouls and Whampires under us:

You are inventing problems. They are already working, we are seeing no signs of them having problems or being outright unable to do anything.
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Eh, I don't think that you want to hear arguments, but for other people's sake:
1. His whole experience being whampire was killing people. We don't know, what he will think about that without killing or harming people.
2. MiS doesn't allow fomori to use their powers, disciplines, etc., without feeding on people. Maggots is the charm for this purpose, which has drawback in lowering fomori resistance to the Infernal, but it will be solved with Alchemy.
3. Isabella canonically can't become a whampire without Maggots, DragonParadox ruled on it.
 
Cavalar said:
Eh, I don't think that you want to hear arguments, but for other people's sake:
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I mean, I do not see someone willing to hear arguments when I watch you talking with Yog, so....

Cavalar said:
1. His whole experience being whampire was killing people. We don't know, what he will think about that without killing or harming people.
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You should reread the updates, guy doesn't want to be a Whampire in general, not just in particular.

Cavalar said:
2. MiS doesn't allow fomori to use their powers, disciplines, etc., without feeding on people. Maggots is the charm for this purpose, which has drawback in lowering fomori resistance to the Infernal, but it will be solved with Alchemy.
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Strange, the ghouls don't have this problem, almost as if it was handled already, why, I would almost think you are inventing problems where there aren't any.

Cavalar said:
3. Isabella canonically can't become a whampire without Maggots, DragonParadox ruled on it.
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Click to shrink...

And yet she's doing just fine, and has no urgent problem we have to work on right now.
 
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