Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?

  • Mercy (Diplomacy and Expansion)

    Votes: 210 74.7%

  • Ruthlessness (Kick the Duchy in the Balls)

    Votes: 66 23.5%

  • Thule (Yeeni Handholding and Piscarian Cuddling)

    Votes: 107 38.1%
  • Total voters
    281
Voting will open in 5 hours, 23 minutes
Reader mode
Alectai said:
I already pointed out that "The troop carrier isn't for right now, it's for being able to strike immediately after a major attack" To exploit that moment of vulnerability to push the border back. Because we don't just magically materialize the new ship immediately, it takes time to build. Having it ready when the attack comes means we can attack them while they're weak, instead of giving them four or five years to make good their losses by the time our troopship is ready. That's why we need it now, to exploit an opening, and the longer we wait, the harder the counteroffensive will be as they dig in even deeper and get the Ork Ecosystem more entrenched.

[X] Taurus-Class Troopship

If we they don't attack this turn, so be it, but if they do, we'll be able to attack right away before they can replace their losses. This is of critical importance to our strategic interests.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do you plan to add Prow Ram in the future?
 
zack omega24 said:
Do you plan to add Prow Ram in the future?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Likely, but the budget didn't allow for it in this iteration. Half the base budget was burnt out just having the Troop Transportation and the Ortillery Support. The rest was meant making it fast enough to outrun mostly anything. I just grabbed the Hangar and the Pilot Training because I figured having some limited strike mission capacity wouldn't hurt it significantly but might give it some added utility at its primary role, and let us start building up cadre for strike craft wings.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
At best we'd be looking at like a 3-4 turn 'refit' action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Refits on the scale of the Aries Class you have would be 1 Action, unless you radically alter it, especially if you denote the design as a Refit.
RaptorusMaximus said:
leave Droma with next to no ground units to protect it in the event some bullshit were to occur.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
PDF forces are not counted in your expeditionary units.
 
HeroCooky said:
Refits on the scale of the Aries Class you have would be 1 Action, unless you radically alter it, especially if you denote the design as a Refit.
PDF forces are not counted in your expeditionary units.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm thinking of the refit upgrading to the rotary-MC, adding an Autoloader, and Counter-Boarding. Would that be a simple Refit that we could do quickly or a rebuild?
 
Alectai said:
No, a Frigate is not beating a Light Cruiser in a head on fight, especially when they have "Three times your DP". Wishful Thinking. We're not beating Cruiserweights in a fair fight, and any thought that a brawler frigate can meaningfully influence our odds against a Light Cruiser is Pure Wishful Thinking Incarnate.

It's not that much larger, not that much more durable than an Aries--and it has significantly less Acceleration, which means it's going to be getting hit more even if it fights exactly the same as an Aries despite not being that much tougher. Ork Ships suck at turning, and our best defense is minimizing how many hits we take. Therefore, Wishful Thinking to think a slightly chonkier Brawler will meaningfully change the calculus.

The Entire Point of this strategy is "Bait their heavies in, and attack immediately after we repulse them". Before they can replace those Light Cruisers. But that requires us to actually dislodge them before they just respawn another few armies. We can't do that without a Warp Capable Troopship. And since we need one, it might as well be good at its job.

Unless you think we can hold them off indefinitely, despite literally every warning we've gotten that Turtling Will Get Us Killed. We can't, but we're not getting a pocket Strike Cruiser anytime soon, and triply not if we just decide to turtle here. If the expectation is "Don't bother having a Troopship until you can make a pocket Strike Cruiser", we're going to be turtling for a long, long time. And you can't beat Orks by turtling up, you beat them by burning them out before they can hit critical mass, or by throwing so much material at them that they can't keep up. The latter is not going to be an option for us ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't want to turtle up in this system, I want to, on the turn after we get hit, immediately send our entire navy to smash all of the ship building and maintaining infrastructure in Ubraka along with any system monitors that are there. We need a troopship to finish securing the system so we can actually conquer and exploit it, not to remove the threat of viodcraft coming to Droma. Even Orks have to pretend that they need industry, they can't just slam together a destoyer on the surface of a planet and force it into space. I wouldn't want to wait more than 1-2 turns to get boots on the ground, but we 100% can push back the 'front line' that actually matters-the void conflict-to Ubraka without a troop carrier, and thus believe another combat-capable design to help our Aries would serve us better right at this instant.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what HeroCooky intended/said again, which is possible and I would appreciate if they could let me know so I'll stop making incorrect assumptions and/or talking out of my ass.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
I don't want to turtle up in this system, I want to, on the turn after we get hit, immediately send our entire navy to smash all of the ship building and maintaining infrastructure in Ubraka along with any system monitors that are there. We need a troopship to finish securing the system so we can actually conquer and exploit it, not to remove the threat of viodcraft coming to Droma. Even Orks have to pretend that they need industry, they can't just slam together a destoyer on the surface of a planet and force it into space. I wouldn't want to wait more than 1-2 turns to get boots on the ground, but we 100% can push back the 'front line' that actually matters-the void conflict-to Ubraka without a troop carrier, and thus believe another combat-capable design to help our Aries would serve us better right at this instant.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what HeroCooky intended/said again, which is possible and I would appreciate if they could let me know so I'll stop making incorrect assumptions and/or talking out of my ass.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They probably can't smash a Destroyer together, but they absolutely can turn the planet into a hellfortress that we won't be dislodging without overwhelmingly disproportionate force if we decide to just "Contain" them like you're claiming. Or worse, they just build some voidships with some compromises to let them be launched from a planetary surface and hide it under a purple fucking tarp or something. We need boots on the ground if we're going to claim this system, and that means we need an ability to bring them over--that requires a dedicated module to move military forces between systems.

If we close their options to attack us, they'll just start preparing for the fight instead of spending their resources on their Void stuff. I don't want to make the assault more expensive than it needs to be because we decided to make a slightly bigger brawler here. Doubly so since that industry and reinforcement won't go away, and will be ready to explode out if something pushes us back out, all their preparation meaning they're that much stronger.
 
Last edited:
Alectai said:
If we close their options to attack us, they'll just start preparing for the fight instead of spending their resources on their Void stuff. I don't want to make the assault more expensive than it needs to be because we decided to make a slightly bigger brawler here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

See, that is less of a problem in my mind than possibly not even being able to secure the ability to freely operate in the void in Ubraka. We are both being fairly optimistic that the lions' share of the Ork ships will be coming here in one big attack wave, which is a fairly safe assumption, but I'm more worried about actually being able to win the void in the counterattack than securing the orbitals, and I want to stack that fight-which will be considerably less favorable to us than our own initial defense of Droma-as much in our favor as possible with as many warships as we can muster in the limited time we have. If that means the ground-war is harder, then so be it, but at least we'll actually have the opportunity to wage that ground war as opposed to possibly having our navy mauled and forced out of the system.

And yes, maybe 1 frigate might not make a difference in that aspect, but it might, and assuming the worst about the Ork's orbital and intrasystem defenses in Ubraka seems like the safer bet to take than worrying about giving them more time to fort up on the ground.
 
I don't feel that their position there is so strong that they can just casually nickel and dime us down. If they're that strong, then pushing the front back is probably already a non-starter and we're Fucked From The Get Go because they're Right Next Door.

If they hope to take us, it's going to be All or Nothing, and Orks don't know the idea of restraint. But we just massively expanded our Void navy just now beyond their anticipations since the last time we were scouted. That'll give us an opportunity if they rush us this turn, and I'm willing to gamble that they will--because if Orks were capable of patience when there's a Good Scrap right next door, the galaxy would be a much different place and much greener. They'll be vulnerable, and we can exploit that to take the system, but we can't do that if we need to spend 4-5 years building a troopship.

The best time to plant a tree is ten years before you need it. We can do that.
 
Alectai said:
I don't feel that their position there is so strong that they can just casually nickel and dime us down. If they're that strong, then pushing the front back is probably already a non-starter and we're Fucked From The Get Go because they're Right Next Door.

If they hope to take us, it's going to be All or Nothing, and Orks don't know the idea of restraint. But we just massively expanded our Void navy just now beyond their anticipations since the last time we were scouted. That'll give us an opportunity if they rush us this turn, and I'm willing to gamble that they will--because if Orks were capable of patience when there's a Good Scrap right next door, the galaxy would be a much different place and much greener. They'll be vulnerable, and we can exploit that to take the system, but we can't do that if we need to spend 4-5 years building a troopship.

The best time to plant a tree is ten years before you need it. We can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, the thing is that the fact that it's all or nothing could well be a call by someone approving of the idea of building a frigate that can fight, rather than hoping that the destroyers on their own will be enough to win the battle.
 
The Laurent said:
I mean, the thing is that the fact that it's all or nothing could well be a call by someone approving of the idea of building a frigate that can fight, rather than hoping that the destroyers on their own will be enough to win the battle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And ultimately, I feel the benefits of one Frigate don't outweigh two Destroyers, given the action economy differences. I'd rather do the refit for the Aries-class and then produce more of those and use our Frigates as specialists until we can produce proper Capital Ships worthy of the name.
 
Alectai said:
And ultimately, I feel the benefits of one Frigate don't outweigh two Destroyers, given the action economy differences. I'd rather do the refit for the Aries-class and then produce more of those and use our Frigates as specialists until we can produce proper Capital Ships worthy of the name.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, if you think that the Ork attack is going to come this turn you won't actually have time to refit the Aries.

So, do you? That's an actual question. The way you rushed all-in on ships immediately seems to imply that you did.
 
The Laurent said:
I mean, if you think that the Ork attack is going to come this turn you won't actually have time to refit the Aries.

So, do you? That's an actual question. The way you rushed all-in on ships immediately seems to imply that you did.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, yes, I'm expecting them to hit us this turn with a hell of a lot of force, but not enough to run us over along with our SDF forces (Which are formidable--just not Warp Capable). Then I hope to launch a reprisal strike immediately after repulsing the major assault, before they have a chance to recoup their losses, where having a Troopship ready to go would be ideal.

If they don't attack us, I shrug, call it a bad gamble, and commission the Refit. We don't actually lose much if they don't take the bait. But slight inefficiency in action economy in order to set us up for contesting a new system and pushing the border back if they do take the bait is worth the risk in my book. If I'm wrong? We don't really lose much of value. If I'm right, we potentially gain much.

And I have reason to believe that I'm Right here.

Specifically, the fact that the Lord of Change had already projected that the Green Tide would be done with Ubraka in 70 years from Year 80, and given their pace of action, they'll be hitting us this upcoming turn or the next (Which was 80 years from then, where it was explicitly telegraphed that they've Gotten Their Shit Together and have started scouting us). That'll be our window to reverse it things.
 
Last edited:
Well your design looks set to win so I certainly hope you're right.

My worry is, we-at Void 5-have something like 12 Monitor-scouts, 5 Monitor-Destroyers, 3 Monitor-Frigates and a Monitor
-Light Cruiser as our intra-system defense forces (I tried to find the post that gave more specific numbers but I couldn't at a quick scan please correct me if I'm wrong @HeroCooky ).

These are being produced passively as we increase our Void Industty. The Orks can make Light Cruiser equivalents, but we don't know if they're making them in Ubraka or the next system past it they control.

If they have a similar ability to passively make and maintain intrasystem defense craft, then we might be facing a decently hard fight at Ubraka even after we destroy all the ships that come to fight us, and ones we face on the offensive will not be damaged from fighting all the Daemons as they passed through the Warp to get to us.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
Unless I've completely misunderstood what HeroCooky intended/said again, which is possible and I would appreciate if they could let me know so I'll stop making incorrect assumptions and/or talking out of my ass.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You require boots on the ground to take systems you want to pacify but do not wish/intend to subject to an exterminatus. As you do not have any weapons capable of performing such within less than a decade, taking Ubraka and turning it into a stronghold against further incursions will require a planetary campaign against the Orks to secure the local backline.
RaptorusMaximus said:
correct me if I'm wrong @HeroCooky
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You have 3 more Destroyers from Droma III, and another 2 Frigates/3 Destroyers from Void V.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
If they have a similar ability to passively make and maintain intrasystem defense craft, then we might be facing a decently hard fight at Ubraka even after we destroy all the ships that come to fight us, and ones we face on the offensive will not be damaged from fighting all the Daemons as they passed through the Warp to get to us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They probably shouldn't have high Void Infrastructure there, since they just took the place and I imagine the Imperium was focused on Scorched Earthing in their wake. They're Evil, not stupid. Which means there shouldn't be much of an SDF--especially since Orks generally prefer mobile forces rather than purely defensive ones. If they can get one more Destroyer out by not building 3 SDF destroyers, they'll make that trade happily.
 
Last edited:
Vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by HeroCooky on Feb 29, 2024 at 5:24 PM, finished with 51 posts and 21 votes.
    • [X] Taurus-Class Troopship
      [X] Sagittarius-class Frigate
      [X] Sagittarius-class Frigate
      -[x] Length - 1.600 +1 DP
      -[X] Width - 400
      -[x] Acceleration - 6 -1 DP
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[x] Weapons - Medium Missile Batteries, Medium Macrocannon Turret -4 DP
      -[x] Equipment - Missile Swarms, Advanced Alloying, Armored Lifepods -3 DP
      [X] Taurus-Class Troopship
      -[x] Length - 1.600 +1 DP
      -[X] Width - 350 (+1 DP)
      -[X] Acceleration - 7 Gravities (-3 DP)
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[X] Weapons - Small Hangars (-1 DP)
      -[X] Equipment - Small Troop Compartment/Dedicated Ortillery/Strict Pilot Training (-5 DP)
      [X] Capricorn-Class Frigate
      [X] Capricorn-Class Frigate
      -[X] Length - 1.600 (+1)
      -[X] Width - 400
      -[X] Acceleration - 5.5 Gravities
      -[X] Armor - Thick Single Hull (-1)
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[X] Weapons - Light Missiles (Batteries), Light Lances (Tureted), Light Rotary Macro-Cannon (Turreted) (-4)
      -[X] Equipment - Autoloaders, Armored Lifepods, Advanced Alloying (-3)
      [X] Virgo-class Carrier Frigate
      -[x] Length - 1.600 +1 DP
      -[X] Width - 400
      -[x] Acceleration - 6 -1 DP
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[X] Weapons - 4x Small Hanger -4 DP
      -[x] Equipment - Advanced Alloying, Armored Lifepods, Strict Pilot Training -3 DP
      [X] [Frigate] Marine-class (7 DP)
      -[X] Length - 1.700 Meters
      -[X] Width - 400 Meters
      -[X] Acceleration - 5 Gravities (+1)
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[X] Weapons - 2x Light Lance Turrets, Small Hangars (-3)
      -[X] Equipment - Small Troop Compartment, Dedicated Ortillery , Armored Lifepods (-5)
      [X] [Frigate] Marine-class
      [X] [Frigate] Lightbringer-class
      -[X] Length - 1.600 Meters (+1)
      -[X] Width - 350 Meters (+1)
      -[X] Acceleration - 5.5 Gravities
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters
      -[X] Weapons - Light Prow Lance, Medium Lance Turrets, 2x Light Lance Turrets (-6)
      -[X] Equipment - Small Troop Compartment, Pure Lenses (-3)
      [X] [Frigate] Marine-class (7 DP)
      [X] Righteous Fury Class Frigate
      -[X] Length - 1.600 Meters (+1 DP)
      -[X] Width - 400 Meters (0 DP)
      -[X] Acceleration - 6 Gravities (-1 DP)
      -[X] Armor - Single Hull (0 DP)
      -[X] Shields - Two Emitters (0 DP)
      -[X] Weapons - Light Rotary Macro-Cannon/Turret, Medium Macro-Cannons/Battery (-4 DP)
      -[X] Equipment - Small Troop Compartment, Auto-Loaders, and Gravimetric Engine Calculations (-4 DP)
      [X] Virgo-class Carrier Frigate
    Click to expand...
    The Taurus-Class has it.
    Writing.
     
  • Voting
    • [X] Taurus-Class Troopship

    edit:     was gonna post earlier but had to deal with something lol. At least this vote won
     
    Last edited:
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Voting will open in 5 hours, 23 minutes
    Back
    Top