Loyalty is its own Reward (A Traitor Legion Chapter Master Quest)

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Tell me if there's anything you'd like me to change and I'll get back to you... when I wake up.
Alright, here I go.

--[X] Production
---[X] Power Sword x10 (Husnik)
---[X] Crozius Arcanum x5 (Karark Zel)
---[X] Iron Halo x5 (Karark Zel)
---[X] Dreadnought Chassis x2 (Noricum)
Do we actually need the Dreadnought chassis?

-Dreadnought Chassis (Castaferrum pattern): 60BP/Chassis
We could actually repair our Vehicles instead of building chassisises that we can't even use without gathering injured Marines.

—[] Predator Tank 25BP
—[] Whirlwind 25BP
—[] Thunderhawk 50BP

Or this one, but that's a personal preference.
-Mk-VI 'Corvus' Power Armor: 10BP/Suit
It makes sense though, since we tend to use our prototype armor for our 10th Company. So throwing in 5-10 MK-VI per turn isn't difficult. Certainly more useful than weapons imo.

---[X] Fabricator-General of Smilnay Nikola Delta-Null 6 (Adeptus Mechanicus)
----[X] Request the repair of the Shrouded Blade, as Smilnay had done before for the Fear of Judgement
Why not the guy from Milan? They actually have a substantial shipbuilding capacity. Seems like a better option.

-[X] Master of Recruits
--[X] Train your Chapter
---[X] Intelligence x2
-Toughness: 4
491/500
--> maybe finish Toughness first
 
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Honestly, I like everything about the plan, except for the fact that we are leaving a warband of the thousand sons alone. Considering we already have one warband of Tzeench worshippers already, having two into the mix really doesnt fill me with confidence.
(And I bet its the warband led by that Exaltant Thousand son character that survived. Which really makes me want to go after them in the first place in order to put them down into the damn dirt for that alone.)
Maybe but the description implies the Angels Crusader kicked this warband ass hard enough that they decided to flee into the Aetelian Sector instead of staying in the Galilean Sector where they previously were.
 
Okay, before we go all in on this shipyard we need to know if it pays off or not.

@ThunderOwl What are the expected capabilities of the shipyard the current leading plan is asking for will provide to the chapter?
 
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[X] Plan Fuck It We Ball
Can you dedicate a couple of our 10th-company stealth spec squads to Seibourc Clean-up and Of the First and Fifteenth? @ThunderOwl Can we send troops without using our own ships by, say, leveraging our Inquisition connections to commandeer a Navy light cruiser or two?

Neither of the two I'm proposing need more than a couple squads with a couple specialist and heavy weapons each to seriously contribute to the theatres; the Angels Crusader are Astartes in their own right and need recon/infiltration more than they need firepower, while the Seibourc clean-up only needs a couple head-hunter squads to keep them reeling.

Basically, we don't actually need to dedicate much in the way of troops to have an outsized impact on these deployments. And I definitely don't want the saber-rattling asshole faction of the Angels feeling snubbed and using our refusal to help as an excuse to sour their relations with us.
 
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@ThunderOwl What are the expected capabilities of the shipyard the current leading plan is asking for will provide to the chapter?
Well, taking into account that, while as Salamander descendadants they are good at building things, as a space marine chapter they are not specialized in construction, it will be a small thing. You'll be able to build escorts, at a greater cost that if you just bought them, and it will give you a BP discount of 10% or so when repairing ships.
@ThunderOwl Can we send troops without using our own ships by, say, leveraging our Inquisition connections to commandeer a Navy light cruiser or two?
You can ask Harker for that, but take into account that:
-Harker is going to ask why if you have a your own ships, and may not want to spend the effort in doing so.
-The navy is not going to like you using their ships as a taxi service.
 
When I get off work, I'll make my own plan with a couple of changes compared to Fuck it, we ball
 
You can ask Harker for that, but take into account that:
-Harker is going to ask why if you have a your own ships, and may not want to spend the effort in doing so.
-The navy is not going to like you using their ships as a taxi service.
If we stick in a mod to the current Fuck It We Ball plan to drop them off at their destinations as a stop-over on our way to other things, is that going to hinder our ability to use our ships for the other obligations we have?
 
If we stick in a mod to the current Fuck It We Ball plan to drop them off at their destinations as a stop-over on our way to other things, is that going to hinder our ability to use our ships for the other obligations we have?
You can, but if you let a company in Faisal on the way to Lezo, for example, that company would be stranded until you picked them up, so they won´t show as reinforcements later on the campaign.
 
I would have sent some guys to Seibourc for some relationship gains (because Hive World = BP) but I really want to have as many ships on Pirate Hunt IV as possible. Tell me if there's anything you'd like me to change and I'll get back to you... when I wake up.
Do we really need those Power Swords and the rest immediately? I do like our neutrality in the disagreement between Forge Worlds.

If we need that stuff this turn though, then I'd still recommend rebuilding the Shrouded Blade in-house. Then have Smilnay build the other stuff we need this turn, since high end ground forces gear is very much in their wheelhouse. I suspect that we'll get more bang for our proverbial buck by doing so.
 
Two reasons Milan asked us on first meeting to help them attack other imperials. We have to pick one or the other otherwise they will both hate us.
I mean that's one reason (the help for the attack), since I specifically mentioned siding with one side.

That's an argument against Milan, but not for the other Forge World. Milan seemed overall more productive and much more useful for our immediate needs (shipbuilding). Add to this that both of them have attacked each other repeatedly and are likely to do so again, maybe even ask us to do it once we support one side, and I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't pick Milan.

So again, why not Milan?

The way I see it:
If the other Forge World was so successful with their "inventing" then they would have easily overtaken Milan in the last 10,000 years. But they didn't. They stalled at best. Which means they haven't got much of an advantage. Add to this our actual needs and Milan is much more preferable (once you eliminate the bias the fandom has against traditional AdMech).

Especially once you consider that our Techmarine is the man for cutting edge stuff. Nevermind the fact whether he would want to work with a Forge World that "improves" designs. Though that argument can be turned around, so take it with a grain of salt. Fact remains though that Milan is, on paper, the better choice.
 
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Man I hope the Angels Crusader decide to send forces to deploy in our sector this turn. We did allow them to and we're stretched thin.

[X] Plan Fuck It We Ball
 
I mean that's one reason (the help for the attack), since I specifically mentioned siding with one side.

That's an argument against Milan, but not for the other Forge World. Milan seemed overall more productive and much more useful for our immediate needs (shipbuilding). Add to this that both of them have attacked each other repeatedly and are likely to do so again, maybe even ask us to do it once we support one side, and I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't pick Milan.

So again, why not Milan?

The way I see it:
If the other Forge World was so successful with their "inventing" then they would have easily overtaken Milan in the last 10,000 years. But they didn't. They stalled at best. Which means they haven't got much of an advantage. Add to this our actual needs and Milan is much more preferable (once you eliminate the bias the fandom has against traditional AdMech).

Especially once you consider that our Techmarine is the man for cutting edge stuff. Nevermind the fact whether he would want to work with a Forge World that "improves" designs. Though that argument can be turned around, so take it with a grain of salt. Fact remains though that Milan is, on paper, the better choice.
If you want arguments for Smilnay, then I'll be happy to provide them. First I wouldn't go so far as to say that Milan is more productive than Smilnay. Dont't get me wrong, Milan has the quantitative edge, but Smilnay is better from a qualitative standpoint. It's almost certainly a result of their differing ideologies.

This leads me to my next argument regarding our needs. You are correct in that Milan suits our immediate needs the best. However, once you look to the longer term, when our fleet has escorts (which we can get with the orbital infrastructure already in the plan) and our armory is a bit fuller, that's when the qualitative and ground forces edge of Smilnay starts to shine. We'll be going through ground vehicles and armaments a hell of a lot faster than we'll be going through ships at that point, and the better quality means that more of our (quite difficult to replace, with the experience lost being even more painful) Marines will survive. Plus, we need the best life support systems we can obtain to incentivize the people of Luctus to recolonize the abandoned Refuges, and Smilnay is our best bet for those.

Then there's the power blocs they support. I have to think that whichever Forge we spurn will be incentivized to push their allies to spurn us in kind. We rely on the support of the IG a whole lot more than that of the Navy, so best to support Smilnay. I wouldn't recommend falling too far into either camp though.

As for overtaking, it's a fair bit more complicated than you describe. I don't think that either Forge World is capable of overtaking the other, no matter the effectiveness of their R&D. The difference in specializations is just too great for them to directly compete with each other. That's probably a good thing for the Sector as a whole, as the one under threat of becoming irrelevant would likely do a lot of damage to avoid that situation.

TL;DR: Milan is better in the short term, Smilnay in the long term. We can't easily change sides, so best to go with the long term view.
 
Thanks for the well made points. Can't say I agree with all of them, but they are sensible.

Mostly because quality is what we ascribe to their tinkering even if that can mean the exact opposite in Warhammer 40k.

The part about ground forces and vehicles is fair though. Especially if we expand on our own capability to construct and maintain ships.

Hm... I hadn't considered the political aspect. The Navy is currently extremely divided so entangling us with Milan might throw us deeper into that mess.

The other part would be that Smilney is more open towards variant designs of which we will likely require many for our specialization. Stealth tech and whatnot.

Fair enough.
 
My only problem would be that instead of raising more pdf I think we should train either them or the chapter serfs because they are both still green.
Training the Chapter Serfs requires 3 actions, I assume the PDF would be in the same boat. Last turn we got news that the Luctusian PDF was stretched thin fighting off the wildlife, so I figured raising more troops would be a more immediate help.
[X] Plan Fuck It We Ball

@Nicholas Brooks we do seem to have some vehicles that need repair.
Repair and production are different actions and I want Karark Zel to research the Refuges after he failed in it last turn.
Can we please, please, PLEASE do this action? Raising more PDF regiments is a waste when we haven't even bothered to completely inspect our home base, and I'm fairly certain this action will unlock actions we can do to increase BP.
I'm willing to swap it to inspection, sure.
Do we actually need the Dreadnought chassis?
In general yes, at least sooner or later. But more immediately, Spatha will need one, and our only remaining chassis isn't equipped with melee weapons. It'd be a shame if our Chapter Champion got interred and wasn't able to put his dueling talents to use.
We could actually repair our Vehicles instead of building chassisises that we can't even use without gathering injured Marines.
Repair is a separate action to production. To repair, it'd require either stopping production or stopping Refuge research.
Why not the guy from Milan? They actually have a substantial shipbuilding capacity. Seems like a better option.
Both have it, Milan just has bigger shipyards
Toughness: 4
491/500
--> maybe finish Toughness first
We'll finish off Toughness via battle.
You can, but if you let a company in Faisal on the way to Lezo, for example, that company would be stranded until you picked them up, so they won´t show as reinforcements later on the campaign.
What about if they're dropped off on the way to the Pirate Hunt, given that's not a campaign?
Do we really need those Power Swords and the rest immediately? I do like our neutrality in the disagreement between Forge Worlds.

If we need that stuff this turn though, then I'd still recommend rebuilding the Shrouded Blade in-house. Then have Smilnay build the other stuff we need this turn, since high end ground forces gear is very much in their wheelhouse. I suspect that we'll get more bang for our proverbial buck by doing so.
Hm... that's a fair point. Some vehicles and weapons would probably be considered less of a snub to Milan as well compared to rebuilding a Strike Cruiser from, effectively, total destruction.
 
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