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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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firefrog600 said:
I'mma note when at McAnally's an outsider explicitly followed some rules.
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I don't recall that scene, but even taking it at face value that's not really relevant.

Outsiders are distinct from reality and opposed to everything in it. Choosing to temporarily follow the modern rules of supernatural diplomacy isn't the same as being a part of it.

It's like being an outlaw in the oldest sense of the term. Choosing to follow some rules some of the time after being declared one doesn't change the fact that you have no rights and anyone who feels like it can kill you without legal consequences.
 
uju32 said:
COMMENTARY
Interesting that the Archive is apparently getting involved in direct action in this setting.
To my understanding, she generally preferred to avoid that sort of thing. I wonder what was critical enough to make her take the field; I mean, if they're carrying RPGs, then this was a planned strike, not something that broke out by mistake.
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There is a reason that -30 is part of the roll is all I will say on the matter, this is not business as usual

Good night guys, see you in the morning with Ivvy
 
BronzeTongue said:
The example it gives is upping the willpower cost of resisting a power, not wholesale changing the activation condition. MF changes quantitative values, not qualitative properties.
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My understanding is that its broader than that.
The Elements are less like lego blocks and more like cooking ingredients.
I mean, by the examples given, you literally cant make a splendor along the lines of magic armor, or Hermes flying shoes.

BronzeTongue said:
You were the one who posted the quote that mentions supernatural detection not working on Nemesis very well and Uriel not having anything on this in the same breath. Nemesis is an archangel tier stealth specialist, Uriel's knowledge is at very least in question.

The white god clearly doesn't give everyone the same chances, and free will is for mortals. Outsiders aren't part of Heaven's game with Hell or any other part of reality, the gates exist to deny them a seat at the table. It seems more likely to me that he'd do a lot more to keep nemesis away from people if he actually could find it all.
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Supernatural detection by supernatural powers.
Your basic angels are a wee bit off the scale for the rest of the setting; thats why they are limited to shit like brief talks onscreen.
Nevermind archangels.


Nemesis is not an archangel-tier stealth specialist.
I remember digging up a quote where Nemesis fulfills for the Outsiders the same role that Uriel does for Heaven.
But that in no way implies that he/ it is of the same power tier that something like Uriel is.

Thats a lot like deciding that because they are both used to look at things, a magnifying lens and the Hubble telescope are equivalent.


A form of Free Will is for mortals. Other supernatural creatures still have at least some level of volition.
Heaven is quite capable of playing multiple games with multiple opponents if they so choose; Dresden is a remarkably limited PoV character in this setting, who is just beginning to realize how big the game board is.

Yog said:
Sacred Protection is not that broad. For dream element it only grants protection from "the twisting of the mind by supernatural powers (dreams)"
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The Form of Dreams and Nightmares is the only thing that explicitly applies to magic.
I guess you could argue Sacred Protection + Transformation, but thats way more of a stretch IMO.

Yog said:
That's certainly one interpretation. I don't think it's correct. Unlike everyone else, Outsiders aren't part of the system, aren't covered by the rules - they are very literal Outsiders. Uriel might be able to identify the agents afterwards, he's very smart, but he can't do this beforehand. At least Molly certainly cared enough to at least give angels hints to how track Nemesis:
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You are making the assumption that the White God and his angels only have authority inside the Outer Gates and over things inside them. Which I dont believe is true.

If Outsiders werent covered by the system, humans wouldnt be able to summon them. They would run roughshod over humanity instead of having limits and working in the shadows. Angels would be allowed to go weapons free on them everytime they broke cover if they didnt have some sort of allowance to be here.

A whole lot of plot threads would never be viable in the setting.See Nfested Justine for example. Or Nfested Maeve. Or Nfested Aurora. Or the multiple operations where Red Court expeditionary forces have used Outsiders without having Heavenly strike forces dropping on them.

Hell, something as simple as the basic magic compulsion to answer questions works on them.

We dont know how broad the White God's remit is in this AU, but in the canon Dresdenverse its pretty strongly implied that its not just inside the Outer Gates.
But thats not part of the story.

Yog said:
I forget - didn't we burn that for something already? Also, not sure if this works for the whole Winter. It almost certainly wouldn't cover Mab and Mother Winter, I think. EDIT: Anyway, added in for now, and I'm going to sleep.
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Maeve is senior enough for it to count, I think.
Arguably, we could do much the same thing by finding a Winter fae and using it to ask.
Good night.

BronzeTongue said:
I don't recall that scene, but even taking it at face value that's not really relevant.
Outsiders are distinct from reality and opposed to everything in it. Choosing to temporarily follow the modern rules of supernatural diplomacy isn't the same as being a part of it.

It's like being an outlaw in the oldest sense of the term. Choosing to follow some rules some of the time after being declared one doesn't change the fact that you have no rights and anyone who feels like it can kill you without legal consequences.
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Its not choosing. Its compulsion.
Cold Days:
The Outsiders loved their psychic assaults, and given that this one happened about two seconds after Sharkface came up out of the water, it was pretty clear who was behind it. But that was fine. Sharkface had chosen a battle of the mind. So be it. My head, my rules.
I lifted my right arm to the frozen sky and shouted, wordless and furious, and a bolt of scarlet lightning flashed from the seething skies. It smashed into my hand and then down into the earth. Frozen dirt sprayed everywhere, and when it had cleared, I stood holding an oaken quarterstaff carved with runes and sigils, as tall as my temple and as big around as my joined thumb and forefinger.
Then I stretched my left arm down to the earth and cried out again, sweeping it up in a single, beckoning gesture. I tore metals from the ground beneath me, and they swirled like mist up around my body, forming into a suit of armor covered in spikes and protruding blades.
"Okay, big guy," I snarled out at the dark will that even now gathered itself to attack again. "Now we know who I am. Let's see who you are." I took the staff and smote its end down on the ground. "Who are you!" I demanded. "You play in my head, you play by my rules! Identify yourself!"
In answer, there was only a vast roaring sound, like an angry arctic wind gathering into a gale.
"Oh, no, you don't," I muttered. "You started this, creep! You want to get up close and personal, let's play! Who are you?"
A vast sound, like something you'd hear in the deep ocean, moaned through the sky.
"Thrice I command thee!" I shouted, focusing my will, sending it coursing into my voice, which boomed out over the landscape. "Thrice I bid thee! By my name I command thee: Tell me who you are!"
And then an enormous swirling form emerged from the clouds overhead—a face, but only in the broadest, roughest terms, like something a child would make from clay. Lightning burned far back in its eyes, and it spoke in the voice of gale winds.
I AM GATEBREAKER, HARBINGER!
I AM FEARGIVER, HOPESLAYER!
I AM HE-WHO-WALKS-BEFORE!
For a second, I just stood there, staring up at the sky, shocked.
Hell's bells.
It worked.
The thing spoke, and as it did, I knew, I knew what it was, as if I'd been given a snapshot of its core identity, its quintessential self.
For one second, no more than that, I understood it, what it was doing, what it wanted, what it planned and . . .
And then that moment was past, the knowledge vanished the way it had come—except for one thing. Somehow, I'd held on to a few crumbling fragments of insight.
I knew the thing trying to tear my head apart was a Walker. I didn't know much about them except that nobody else knew much about them either, and that they were extremely bad news.
And one of them had tried to kill me when I was sixteen years old. He-Who-Walks-Behind had nearly done it. Except . . . from where I stood now, I wasn't sure he'd really been trying to kill me. He'd been shaping me. I don't know for what, but he'd been trying to provoke me.
And this thing in my head, the thing I'd named Sharkface, was like him, a Walker, a peer. It was huge, powerful, and in a way utterly different from the kinds of power I had seen before. This thing wasn't bigger than Mab. But it was horribly, unbearably deeper than her, like a photograph of a sculpture compared to the sculpture itself. It had power at its command that was beyond anything I had seen, beyond measure, beyond comprehension—just plain beyond.
This thing was power from the Outside, and I was a grain of sand to its oncoming tide.
But you know what?
Battle Grounds:
"Something about Justine wasn't . . . quite right, earlier, in the apartment," I said. And I let my voice harden. "How long ago did you possess the girl?"

Justine was silent for a moment. Then she shook her head and said, "I think the problem is, you just don't sound all that bright, wizard. Perhaps it's skewing my expectations."
She turned toward me, slim and graceful, steady on the deck.

I faced her and tried not to pitch over the rail as the Water Beetle bumped along the waves. It had been a long night. And I didn't have much left, physically or otherwise.
"Tell me your name," I said, and slid some of my will into my voice.

"You know who I am," Justine purred in answer.
Then she reached out with one hand and ripped a four-foot section of the ship's steel handrail off its metal struts.
I blinked wearily and fancied I could hear grains of sand pattering to the deck from my eyes. Now I knew what Ethniu had felt like at the end. "Humor me," I said, with more of my will. "Tell me your name."

Justine, or whatever being was driving Justine's body around, turned toward me and began slow, stalking paces forward. It made some abortive, choking noises in its throat, and then said, the words drawn from it reluctantly, "It will do you no good once I've caved in your skull. Nemesis am I called."

There. Bingo.
For years, shadowy forces had been driving events in Chicago and in the wider world. For years, I'd been picking up threads and finding them connected to others. For years, I'd been flailing around trying to get an idea of the forces that had been arrayed against me.

And tonight, one of the players was in the open.
Right there. Behind Justine's eyes.
And I was going to get answers.

I didn't have much left in me but pure, stiff-necked, muleheaded contrariness.
But even after the night I'd had, I still had plenty of it.

"I don't care what they call you," I spat. The effort of maintaining my will made it impossible to move my feet as the slender girl stalked forward with her steel bar. "Thrice I say and done. Tell me your name."
The slender figure froze in front of me, shuddering.

Then she exhaled in a slow, utterly sensual voice, "I am the doubt that wards away sleep. I am the flaw that corrupts, the infected wound, the false fork in the trail. I am the gnawer, the worm in the book, the maggot that burrows in the mind's eye."
She shuddered in bizarre ecstasy and panted, in a frantic whisper, "I am He Who Walks Beside."

Hell's bells.
A Walker.

And if I hadn't twigged to its presence, I would have set it loose on Demonreach—the prison for the great nightmares of the world. Ethniu wasn't the biggest thing in it—not by a long shot. And an Outsider with the power of a Walker, turned loose inside the island's defenses, might well be able to destroy them and set loose every horror inside.

Hell. There'd have been an Ethniu for every city, if the place got emptied out.
The weight of my will, once finished forcing the information from the possessing being, flooded out of me and left me barely able to stand. I staggered back, away from the slender figure in front of me.
There are rules for supernatural creatures.
Outsiders dont get to ignore them.
 
uju32 said:
My understanding is that its broader than that.
The Elements are less like lego blocks and more like cooking ingredients.
I mean, by the examples given, you literally cant make a splendor along the lines of magic armor, or Hermes flying shoes.


Supernatural detection by supernatural powers.
Your basic angels are a wee bit off the scale for the rest of the setting; thats why they are limited to shit like brief talks onscreen.
Nevermind archangels.


Nemesis is not an archangel-tier stealth specialist.
I remember digging up a quote where Nemesis fulfills for the Outsiders the same role that Uriel does for Heaven.
But that in no way implies that he/ it is of the same power tier that something like Uriel is.

Thats a lot like deciding that because they are both used to look at things, a magnifying lens and the Hubble telescope are equivalent.


A form of Free Will is for mortals. Other supernatural creatures still have at least some level of volition.
Heaven is quite capable of playing multiple games with multiple opponents if they so choose; Dresden is a remarkably limited PoV character in this setting, who is just beginning to realize how big the game board is.


The Form of Dreams and Nightmares is the only thing that explicitly applies to magic.
I guess you could argue Sacred Protection + Transformation, but thats way more of a stretch IMO.


You are making the assumption that the White God and his angels only have authority inside the Outer Gates and over things inside them. Which I dont believe is true.

If Outsiders werent covered by the system, humans wouldnt be able to summon them. They would run roughshod over humanity instead of having limits and working in the shadows. Angels would be allowed to go weapons free on them everytime they broke cover if they didnt have some sort of allowance to be here.

A whole lot of plot threads would never be viable in the setting.See Nfested Justine for example. Or Nfested Maeve. Or Nfested Aurora. Or the multiple operations where Red Court expeditionary forces have used Outsiders without having Heavenly strike forces dropping on them.

Hell, something as simple as the basic magic compulsion to answer questions works on them.

We dont know how broad the White God's remit is in this AU, but in the canon Dresdenverse its pretty strongly implied that its not just inside the Outer Gates.
But thats not part of the story.


Maeve is senior enough for it to count, I think.
Arguably, we could do much the same thing by finding a Winter fae and using it to ask.
Good night.


Its not choosing. Its compulsion.
Cold Days:
The Outsiders loved their psychic assaults, and given that this one happened about two seconds after Sharkface came up out of the water, it was pretty clear who was behind it. But that was fine. Sharkface had chosen a battle of the mind. So be it. My head, my rules.
I lifted my right arm to the frozen sky and shouted, wordless and furious, and a bolt of scarlet lightning flashed from the seething skies. It smashed into my hand and then down into the earth. Frozen dirt sprayed everywhere, and when it had cleared, I stood holding an oaken quarterstaff carved with runes and sigils, as tall as my temple and as big around as my joined thumb and forefinger.
Then I stretched my left arm down to the earth and cried out again, sweeping it up in a single, beckoning gesture. I tore metals from the ground beneath me, and they swirled like mist up around my body, forming into a suit of armor covered in spikes and protruding blades.
"Okay, big guy," I snarled out at the dark will that even now gathered itself to attack again. "Now we know who I am. Let's see who you are." I took the staff and smote its end down on the ground. "Who are you!" I demanded. "You play in my head, you play by my rules! Identify yourself!"
In answer, there was only a vast roaring sound, like an angry arctic wind gathering into a gale.
"Oh, no, you don't," I muttered. "You started this, creep! You want to get up close and personal, let's play! Who are you?"
A vast sound, like something you'd hear in the deep ocean, moaned through the sky.
"Thrice I command thee!" I shouted, focusing my will, sending it coursing into my voice, which boomed out over the landscape. "Thrice I bid thee! By my name I command thee: Tell me who you are!"
And then an enormous swirling form emerged from the clouds overhead—a face, but only in the broadest, roughest terms, like something a child would make from clay. Lightning burned far back in its eyes, and it spoke in the voice of gale winds.
I AM GATEBREAKER, HARBINGER!
I AM FEARGIVER, HOPESLAYER!
I AM HE-WHO-WALKS-BEFORE!
For a second, I just stood there, staring up at the sky, shocked.
Hell's bells.
It worked.
The thing spoke, and as it did, I knew, I knew what it was, as if I'd been given a snapshot of its core identity, its quintessential self.
For one second, no more than that, I understood it, what it was doing, what it wanted, what it planned and . . .
And then that moment was past, the knowledge vanished the way it had come—except for one thing. Somehow, I'd held on to a few crumbling fragments of insight.
I knew the thing trying to tear my head apart was a Walker. I didn't know much about them except that nobody else knew much about them either, and that they were extremely bad news.
And one of them had tried to kill me when I was sixteen years old. He-Who-Walks-Behind had nearly done it. Except . . . from where I stood now, I wasn't sure he'd really been trying to kill me. He'd been shaping me. I don't know for what, but he'd been trying to provoke me.
And this thing in my head, the thing I'd named Sharkface, was like him, a Walker, a peer. It was huge, powerful, and in a way utterly different from the kinds of power I had seen before. This thing wasn't bigger than Mab. But it was horribly, unbearably deeper than her, like a photograph of a sculpture compared to the sculpture itself. It had power at its command that was beyond anything I had seen, beyond measure, beyond comprehension—just plain beyond.
This thing was power from the Outside, and I was a grain of sand to its oncoming tide.
But you know what?
Battle Grounds:
"Something about Justine wasn't . . . quite right, earlier, in the apartment," I said. And I let my voice harden. "How long ago did you possess the girl?"

Justine was silent for a moment. Then she shook her head and said, "I think the problem is, you just don't sound all that bright, wizard. Perhaps it's skewing my expectations."
She turned toward me, slim and graceful, steady on the deck.

I faced her and tried not to pitch over the rail as the Water Beetle bumped along the waves. It had been a long night. And I didn't have much left, physically or otherwise.
"Tell me your name," I said, and slid some of my will into my voice.

"You know who I am," Justine purred in answer.
Then she reached out with one hand and ripped a four-foot section of the ship's steel handrail off its metal struts.
I blinked wearily and fancied I could hear grains of sand pattering to the deck from my eyes. Now I knew what Ethniu had felt like at the end. "Humor me," I said, with more of my will. "Tell me your name."

Justine, or whatever being was driving Justine's body around, turned toward me and began slow, stalking paces forward. It made some abortive, choking noises in its throat, and then said, the words drawn from it reluctantly, "It will do you no good once I've caved in your skull. Nemesis am I called."

There. Bingo.
For years, shadowy forces had been driving events in Chicago and in the wider world. For years, I'd been picking up threads and finding them connected to others. For years, I'd been flailing around trying to get an idea of the forces that had been arrayed against me.

And tonight, one of the players was in the open.
Right there. Behind Justine's eyes.
And I was going to get answers.

I didn't have much left in me but pure, stiff-necked, muleheaded contrariness.
But even after the night I'd had, I still had plenty of it.

"I don't care what they call you," I spat. The effort of maintaining my will made it impossible to move my feet as the slender girl stalked forward with her steel bar. "Thrice I say and done. Tell me your name."
The slender figure froze in front of me, shuddering.

Then she exhaled in a slow, utterly sensual voice, "I am the doubt that wards away sleep. I am the flaw that corrupts, the infected wound, the false fork in the trail. I am the gnawer, the worm in the book, the maggot that burrows in the mind's eye."
She shuddered in bizarre ecstasy and panted, in a frantic whisper, "I am He Who Walks Beside."

Hell's bells.
A Walker.

And if I hadn't twigged to its presence, I would have set it loose on Demonreach—the prison for the great nightmares of the world. Ethniu wasn't the biggest thing in it—not by a long shot. And an Outsider with the power of a Walker, turned loose inside the island's defenses, might well be able to destroy them and set loose every horror inside.

Hell. There'd have been an Ethniu for every city, if the place got emptied out.
The weight of my will, once finished forcing the information from the possessing being, flooded out of me and left me barely able to stand. I staggered back, away from the slender figure in front of me.
There are rules for supernatural creatures.
Outsiders dont get to ignore them.
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I'mma note butcher did say certain outsiders are multiversal like archangels. No idea which ones mind you. But, that doesn't really matter for this quest for obvious reasons. Just wanted to note it.
 
firefrog600 said:
I'mma note butcher did say certain outsiders are multiversal like archangels. No idea which ones mind you. But, that doesn't really matter for this quest for obvious reasons. Just wanted to note it.
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1)I dont recall this. Citation please.

2)Did he ever say they were on the same power tier as angels?
Because everything I recall him ever saying about angels suggests not.
 
uju32 said:
1)I dont recall this. Citation please.

2)Did he ever say they were on the same power tier as angels?
Because everything I recall him ever saying about angels suggests not.
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"I'm pretty sure the outsiders are the outsiders and they just sort of look different depending on which universe they are trying to get into and destroy." This is his response to the question of are the outsiders the same for every universe or are there a different set of outsiders. Now whether that makes them equal or anything well thats a vs power debate so its kinda stupid I'm just saying their multiversal according to Jim. In what way fuck if I know all he said is that the outsiders are the outsiders in response to if there are different sets of them.

Edit: Also if I'm being honest I'm unsure hes ever actually said angels are the end all be all just that their in that high upper range of bullshit. He said to some comments the mothers are at least closer to the multiversal thing than mab and such are. Plus shit like eye of balor if they turned retarded and stood still could actually kill them. So I think there are things on their level not that it matters much here or even in canon really when power isn't really the sole focus. Like I know we've debated the quote about lucifer being an officer in hells corporations as compared to hades small time ceo but I think that might mean there's comparable shit to him even if it doesn't matter cause lucifer himself probably governs over entire realities of evil shit as an officer. Whereas you think that means ceo with people who have power that could harm him but hes a majority shareholder.
 
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At some point we really should ask the Crown what Winter and Summer and Odin know of Exalted.
[X] Yog
 
uju32 said:
There are rules for supernatural creatures.
Outsiders dont get to ignore them.
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Harry is Starborn.
Vaguely defined power over Outsiders is part of that package.

He is forcing them to answer here, by whatever right being Starborn means he has, not by abstract rules.

Besides that, the Outsiders obviously still have some few metaphysical rules to follow, otherwise people who bargained with them or summoned them could never exert any control, making the tricks the Red Court is pulling with them impossible.

Despite that, they are still outside the usual game of diplomatic rules within reality and the only consequence of killing one on neutral ground should be having to pay Mac's repair-bills.
 
uju32 said:
Angels would be allowed to go weapons free on them everytime they broke cover if they didnt have some sort of allowance to be here.
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That would run counter to the summoner's free will, not the summonnee's
uju32 said:
A whole lot of plot threads would never be viable in the setting.See Nfested Justine for example. Or Nfested Maeve. Or Nfested Aurora. Or the multiple operations where Red Court expeditionary forces have used Outsiders without having Heavenly strike forces dropping on them.

Hell, something as simple as the basic magic compulsion to answer questions works on them.

We dont know how broad the White God's remit is in this AU, but in the canon Dresdenverse its pretty strongly implied that its not just inside the Outer Gates.
But thats not part of the story.
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I get a completely opposite interpretation. Outside is not superhell. It's a Lovecraftian alien thing to Reality. At least this is how I see it.
 
So, I modified the Judge's Deadly Noose design, adding an alternative development for the 5 dot version, so Lydia isn't locked into Exigent of Death role, but can also embrace the "Heir of Arawn" role. Instead of purely combat Dread Knights, it would, if such an upgrade path is chosen, summon bannermen of Annwn - echoes of the lords and ladies of the court of Arawn coming forth to serve the heir of their beloved lord. They are quite weaker than Dread Knights, and that's by design - they are not meant to be pure combat servitors, and they are not meant to be spawned mid-combat. They are meant to be slowly accumulated after and before combat, equipped and forming a proper court, and then called into battle via summoning feature Ephemera get. Unlike Drad Knights they can carry out non-combat tasks too. @DragonParadox would such an option be allowed?
 
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Yog said:
So, I modified the Judge's Deadly Noose design, adding an alternative development for the 5 dot version, so Lydia isn't locked into Exigent of Death role, but can also embrace the "Heir of Arawn" role. Instead of purely combat Dread Knights, it would, if such an upgrade path is chosen, summon bannerman of Annwn - echoes of the lords and ladies of the court of Arawn coming forth to serve the heir of their beloved lord. They are quite weaker than Dread Knights, and that's by design - they are not meant to be pure combat servitors, and they are not meant to be spawned mid-combat. They are meant to be slowly accumulated after and before combat, equipped and forming a proper court, and then called into battle via summoning feature Ephemera get. Unlike Drad Knights they can carry out non-combat tasks too. @DragonParadox would such an option be allowed?
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Interesting thought, yeah that works.
 
DragonParadox said:
moral code
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Or Mercy in servitude to block Beast from taking over, walking in sunlight etc. Plus False Spring Beckons(I think) so they don't develop mindset of human=cattle from feeding
Nyarky said:
I don't know, 14th generation is full of Caitiff, and everyone knows that Caitiff are a clear sign of the coming gehenna, seems pretty dangerous to me. :V
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Then we shoulda feed them vamps to raise their gen to 6-8
 
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Nov 27, 2023 at 6:48 AM, finished with 74 posts and 4 votes.
  • [X] Plan indirect study
    -[X] Do not burn the question, there's no reason to rush.
    -[X] Crown questions:
    --[X] Using Harry's pentacle necklace: What is the sum total knowledge of this Pentacle's original owner on the matter of Starborn?
    ---[X] Subterfuge excellency not to reveal Lash's hypothesis that Margret planned for Harry to be a starborn.
    --[X] Using Harry's blasting rod: In what qualitative ways is the magic of the owner of this blasting rod different from that of a statistically average White Council wizard?
    --[X] Using a random white council wizard (now, if Harry can give us someone's contact, or later if he can't): in what way is the soul of this person different from that of Harry Dresden?
    --[X] Use DuMorne's grave or DuMorne's old home as a focus; DuMorne wanted him because Starborn, so find out what DuMorne knew
    ---[X] Use RVD for travel and ATP for stealth just in case.
    --[X] Use a recording of our latest conversation with Maeve to learn what WInter knows of Starborn
    -[X] Talk to Lydia - maybe her father or library know something - either identities of past starborn, or more on their nature in general
Click to expand...
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 27, 2023 at 6:50 AM, finished with 76 posts and 5 votes.
  • [X] Plan indirect study
    -[X] Do not burn the question, there's no reason to rush.
    -[X] Crown questions:
    --[X] Using Harry's pentacle necklace: What is the sum total knowledge of this Pentacle's original owner on the matter of Starborn?
    ---[X] Subterfuge excellency not to reveal Lash's hypothesis that Margret planned for Harry to be a starborn.
    --[X] Using Harry's blasting rod: In what qualitative ways is the magic of the owner of this blasting rod different from that of a statistically average White Council wizard?
    --[X] Using a random white council wizard (now, if Harry can give us someone's contact, or later if he can't): in what way is the soul of this person different from that of Harry Dresden?
    --[X] Use DuMorne's grave or DuMorne's old home as a focus; DuMorne wanted him because Starborn, so find out what DuMorne knew
    ---[X] Use RVD for travel and ATP for stealth just in case.
    --[X] Use a recording of our latest conversation with Maeve to learn what WInter knows of Starborn
    -[X] Talk to Lydia - maybe her father or library know something - either identities of past starborn, or more on their nature in general
Click to expand...
 
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Arc 11 Post 10: A Play of Jagged Pieces
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    • A Play of Jagged Pieces ​

    3rd of January 2007 A.D.

    "Harry, do you still have that pentacle necklace? You've had that since you were born right? Actually it would have been there when you were born?" As you pause the wince of sympathy is unfeigned, "Sorry, sorry—" but it is covering for something just the same, the suspicion Lash had shared on the way over.

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 12/15 (Subterfuge Excellency)

    More than a little reluctantly he takes out the small silver star and starts to hand it to you.

    "That is OK, it just needs to be in my presence," you say, inwardly asking: "What did the previous bearer of this pentacle know of the starborn."

    A woman's voice rings in your mind, strong and firm, but lowered to a near whisper, as one reading aloud without meaning to: "Servants and jailers, guardians and destroyers, born anew to each cycle to repeat the choice of their forebearerors or be undone. Born mortal, born human, they are the key and the lock, the stars guide the way of beautiful lights. That that reminds me of something... there. The Age of Beauty also called the Age of Legends, not light but soul. The Starborn have been reincarnating for as long as there have been stars in the sky, the stars were made to guide them... that is probably metaphor. I sure hope so... Theirs is the burden of keeping out or keeping down Those which they have banished. Who are these Starborn though? Who will they be?"

    As the words fade you are left with the utter surety that she had figured out at least part of that answer, the arcane riddle of when and where and when a Starborn bight come to be and by her own arts Margaret Dredeen nee LeFay had ensured that one of these souls would reenter the world though her. To teach them, just to better understand them, you do not know, but one thing you can be certain of, you and Lash are not the only ones here whose legacy goes back into the misty past.

    "Blasting rod?" you ask, meeting the worried looks of the others, well Harry and Tiffany at least, Dad is as composed as he usually is on the job, the confidence of deep and abiding faith.

    Sinking into a lotus pose, natural as breathing you inquire: In what way is the magic of the one who forged this staff different from that of other mages of the White Council? Again your power flares, eyes unseen and far seeing.

    "Humble where they before the world so they sought tutelage," Usum speaks in ancient stately cadence and as he does the remainder of the verses comes to mind. "Far did they journey beneath the sword, through the valley of fear to make the last and greatest sacrifice." Sadness, deep and all encompassing wraps around your shoulders, from one moment to the next you blink tears.

    "That bad huh?" Harry asks, grasping at his usual brand of humor and for once coming up short.

    "It's nothing urgent nothing dangerous, more melancholy, like the sea crashing against the shore without knowing its name."

    "The sea does not usually know things," Harry points out, a little weirded out. Too bad I'm going to make that 'a lot'.

    "Maybe it used to, a long, long time ago," you murmur, setting some order to your thoughts. "Did anyone ever call you an old soul Harry? Because you are, maybe among the oldest souls. That is what it means to be Starborn, your soul's been going 'round and round the universe since before the Earth's been going 'round the sun. The things Outside can't mold and twist those of the company which bore witness to their exile. And so they seek the Starborn, they plot and they scheme to bend to their will for through you they can be free to work that dread will upon Creation once more. You are the key and the lock." The Essence is sharp like ozone after a thunderstorm and of it you drink deep.

    Lost and Regained 2 Essence (Two Crown Questions + Urge of the Forbidden Triggered) -> Essence Unchanged 12/15

    "The Starborn were servants once," Tiffany says, her voice heavy with dread. "I'm sure of it."

    "Not all of them, not enough. It must have been close." It feels like too plain a way to speak about the potential end of not just the world but all things into an Age of Madness before men had even learned to sow crops and herd beasts, much less learned the forging of metals.

    Mouse buts his head against Harry's hand, but he does not seem to notice it. How long the silence reigns you do not know except that it is too long, cold and heavy.

    Finally it's your dad who speaks: "At the end of the day what you have Harry is no different from any other talent, as a man with deft fingers makes a more skillful bowman or one with a head for numbers is a good with computers. Always remember that what they can do does not define someone, what they choose to do does. There's no changing the past, but knowing about it can help all of us here in the present."

    "That is refreshingly practical," Tiffany says. As five pairs and eyes turn to her she shrugs. "No barb in the tail, I mean that. Sometimes it is good to be reminded of the foundation of things, especially those of us with the ability to build towers." She returns her gaze to Harry, thoughtful, measuring, but she does not speak again.

    "So where did..." you hesitate, not knowing what to call the man who had first taught Harry magic than tried to enslave him with magic. "DuMorne live? It might be helpful to know what he knew, why he came looking for you."

    Much to your surprise Harry gives a weak laugh. "They might take away my wizard card for asking this, but don't we know enough for one night?"

    "No such thing," you asnwer reflexively.

    ***​

    Twenty minutes later you are emerging from the River of Monks, Des Moines, into the city of the same name. It does not seem particularly ascetic, a skyline edged in gold and white bleeding into the cold night air. Seamlessly you slip into the downtown crowd, giving none cause to turn their head and look at the soaking wet girl among them.


    Lost 2 Essence (ATP and Excelency) -> Now at 10/15

    Fortunately the veil does not extend to the taxi Clippy hails for you, using a sample of your voice and soon enough you are racing past the uncompromising modern facade of the new civic center, down Art Route and into the packed suburbs not so different from home with their winding cul-de-sacs. It is all the more startling then to see when an empty lot opens up between the houses, barren except for scattered bricks and bits of charred wood, a few dried weeds still crackling underfoot. Even the snow does not seem to rest easy here, cast instead into uneven heaps one in the middle and one at the edge of the property. where a high spike-topped fence stands guard. Had whoever built that sensed the lingering malice of this place? you wonder.

    Alas you had dried off on the way so, still unnoticed, you take out a water bottle and spill it on yourself before : "What did the former owner of this place know about the Starborn?"

    Lost 2 Essence -> Now at 8/15 (Question and Excellency)

    He knew of Harry's power and wished to make use of it at one remove to bind outsiders, that much you had expected, but there is also a single word, a name, not truly understood, gnawing at the warlock's mind like a worm: Salinan.

    "Why does that sound so familiar?" you ask, yourself and soul-bound companion at the same time.

    "It is... a thing of old Majesty, of what kind I am not certain, but it rests far heavier in the mind than most in this flickering feeble age," comes the slow, obviously frustrated, reply which you had come to associate with Usum dredging though his oldest, deepest memories.

    Regained 2 Essence -> Now at 10/15 (Urge of the Forbidden)

    A riddle for later, as many are, for now it's time to go back to Chicago and decide who would be best to take with you to meet the Archive. Dad is coming of coruse he is the one who made the call, but who else?

    [] Harry, he is apparently quite fond of her and he's sure to have some questions given what you learned tonight

    [] Tiffany, she might know some things that even the Archive does not and even if none of those should come up her perspective is sure to be interesting

    [] Lydia, you have not gotten a chance to ask her to look through her library yet, but maybe the meeting will pry some answers out of her father

    [] Write in

    OOC: Well this was a doozy. Enjoy
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Before anything else: yeah, I am sure of it now - Sidereal potential Dresden! 40 thousand starborn number makes this doubtful, but this fits. Unless he's Salinan reincarnation, in which case - Solar potential Dresden! Now, to extract his Exaltation without breaking open the whole of Black Vault... Tricky. And Dresden is almost guaranteed to be able to learn Ancient Sorcery. We should try teaching him, that's going to be useful.

    And we should compare Dresden's soul to that of a human member of our court. I have a suspicion that we'll get a different result.

    [X] Harry, he is apparently quite fond of her and he's sure to have some questions given what you leanred tonight
    [X] Tiffany, she might know some things that even the Archive does not and even if none of those should come up her perspective is sure to be interesting
    [X] Lydia, you have not gotten a chance to ask her to look through her library yet, but maybe the meeting will pry some answers out of her father
     
    Yog said:
    Before anything else: yeah, I am sure of it now - Sidereal potential Dresden! 40 thousand starborn number makes this doubtful, but this fits. Unless he's Salinan reincarnation, in which case - Solar potential Dresden! Now, to extract his Exaltation without breaking open the whole of Black Vault... Tricky. And Dresden is almost guaranteed to be able to learn Ancient Sorcery. We should try teaching him, that's going to be useful.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The Salinan were not all Solars, they were not even all Exalts, some were even Enlightened Mortals. It was a current of thought back in the Age of Sorrows, a way to approach Sorcery.
     
    The Salinian Working was something a radical anarchist did in the High First Age to rewrite all of reality so that anyone could hypothetically learn Sorcery.

    She also came an inch towards Breaking Everything Forever, and when everyone else went "Wow that was a real cool idea!" That was what was the final straw that started planning the Usurpation.
     
    Alectai said:
    The Salinian Working was something a radical anarchist did in the High First Age to rewrite all of reality so that anyone could hypothetically learn Sorcery.

    She also came an inch towards Breaking Everything Forever, and when everyone else went "Wow that was a real cool idea!" That was what was the final straw that started planning the Usurpation.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, funny how in this age everyone has innate magic, even if it is just the ability to make a circle ;)
     
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