Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You know ancient sorceries great but some of the very best wizards do shit even ancient sorcerers couldn't do. Like the good old black staff with his fuck off dakka powers. Given dresdens not gonna get there naturally for a couple centuries not without bullshit stuff in canon happening like eating an energy field bigger than his head or getting a new mantle or something. Those volcanic eruptions and pulling satellites out of orbit he does is fairly impressive in terms of dakka even to exalted.
 
The Salinan were not all Solars, they were not even all Exalts, some were even Enlightened Mortals. It was a current of thought back in the Age of Sorrows, a way to approach Sorcery.
The "the stars were made to guide them" still hints very strongly at Sidereals to me, and I would have expected a mortal soul to be worn down into nothing after so long, but even if being Starborn "just" means he can learn Ancient Sorcery, that still means he can learn Calling the Calibration Gate and just open the Outer Gates wherever. I can see why Outsiders would want them. Not to mention perfect exorcism and binding.
 
You know ancient sorceries great but some of the very best wizards do shit even ancient sorcerers couldn't do. Like the good old black staff with his fuck off dakka powers. Given dresdens not gonna get there naturally for a couple centuries not without bullshit stuff in canon happening like eating an energy field bigger than his head or getting a new mantle or something.

Ancient Sorcery Molly can use you are right. Old Time Sorcery from the First Age.... the Sword of Creation says Hi. :tongue:
 
Ancient Sorcery Molly can use you are right. Old Time Sorcery from the First Age.... the Sword of Creation says Hi. :tongue:
In fairness there's low grade ancient sorcery and then there's the very best shit. Aside the best wizard shit we've seen is probably demonreach which was allegedly made by merlin and could wipe off like half the continent if it exploded due to its security measures. Also you know how its a feat of temporal bullshit, wards, intellectus making, and can trap godlike beings.
 
The Salinian Working was something a radical anarchist did in the High First Age to rewrite all of reality so that anyone could hypothetically learn Sorcery.
I wonder if ... ok here's a thought: the universe has been broken and reforged enough that maybe the original Salinian Working no longer applies BUT those souls who achieved Sorcery through it still have a touch of the metaphysics of the First Age carved into their soul. Which is also why then endlessly re-incarnate because that's what Exalted humans were designed to do.

In fairness there's low grade ancient sorcery and then there's the very best shit. Aside the best wizard shit we've seen is probably demonreach which was allegedly made by merlin and could wipe off like half the continent if it exploded due to its security measures. Also you know how its a feat of temporal bullshit, wards, intellectus making, and can trap godlike beings.
There's also the difference between an Ancient Sorcery spell versus a Sorcerous Working versus an Artifact. And Demonreach is closest to being an Artifact. The distinction I'm making here is between fast casting, extremely extended ritual casting, and literally building permanent infrastructure.
 
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In fairness there's low grade ancient sorcery and then there's the very best shit. Aside the best wizard shit we've seen is probably demonreach which was allegedly made by merlin and could wipe off like half the continent if it exploded due to its security measures. Also you know how its a feat of temporal bullshit, wards, intellectus making, and can trap godlike beings.
Allegedly the great Workings from the First Age could drop continents into the Wyld and then remake them, including a new human and animal population.

I don't know if those effects were ever formalized in any Exalted book, but at least lore-wise that huge-scale Wyldshaping exceeds any power a Wizard or Dresden Files Mage has brought to bear.
 
I wonder if ... ok here's a thought: the universe has been broken and reforged enough that maybe the original Salinian Working no longer applies BUT those souls who achieved Sorcery through it still have a touch of the metaphysics of the First Age carved into their soul. Which is also why then endlessly re-incarnate because that's what Exalted humans were designed to do.


There's also the difference between an Ancient Sorcery spell versus a Sorcerous Working versus an Artifact. And Demonreach is closest to being an Artifact
fair also closest? Even in exalted something like demonreach would be while not the best definitely top tier. It has a genius loci with intellectus, a power that could beat Mab easily depending on her location on the island, temporal warding bullshit, leyline stuff, super fire that can kill basically anything as one of its defenses that could destroy half the continent if it ever had to be triggered, the ability to set a warden, and the ability to trap even top tier things in the setting.
 
Allegedly the great Workings from the First Age could drop continents into the Wyld and then remake them, including a new human and animal population.

I don't know if those effects were ever formalized in any Exalted book, but at least lore-wise that huge-scale Wyldshaping exceeds any power a Wizard or Dresden Files Mage has brought to bear.
well yeah but like that shit would be as impressive as past 5 dot shit right? Its not like we can get that normally here.
 
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Yeah, funny how in this age everyone has innate magic, even if it is just the ability to make a circle ;)
Ehhhhhhh that's reaching a bit considering Sorcery isn't just magic, it's a specific kind of magic involving drawing energy in from the environment and shaping it instead of sourcing it from your own innate magic.

Edit: I could definitely see the circle thing as a result of a Sorcerous Working, just not specifically the Salinian Working
 
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Underlined errors in order of reading:

Twenty minutes later you are emerging from the River of Monks, Des Moines, into the city of the same name. It does not seem particularly anscetic, a skyline edged in gold anw white bleeding into the cold night air. Seemlessly you slip into the downtown crowd, giving none cause to turn their head and look at the soaking wet girl among them.

ascetic not anscetic

and not anw

Seamlessly not Seemlessly ,yes I know English is stupid like that sometimes.

A riddle for later, as many are, for now it's time to go back to Chicago and decide who would be best to take with you to meet the Archive. Dad is coming of coruse he is the one who made the call, but who else?

course, he not coruse he

Hey @DragonParadox would it be OK if I posted about a few mythical concepts?

I'm thinking basic Balkan Slavic Dragon taxonomy, what the progenitors of Vampires are actually called in English when they are called something other than Vampire and the concept of Usud.

Let me know what if any of that sounds of interest to you.
 
fair also closest? Even in exalted something like demonreach would be while not the best definitely top tier. It has a genius loci with intellectus, a power that could beat Mab easily depending on her location on the island, temporal warding bullshit, leyline stuff, super fire that can kill basically anything as one of its defenses that could destroy half the continent if it ever had to be triggered, the ability to set a warden, and the ability to trap even top tier things in the setting.
As in closer to being an Artifact than a Sorcery Spell. I wasn't measuring tier, I was categorizing type
 
Ehhhhhhh that's reaching a bit considering Sorcery isn't just magic, it's a specific kind of magic involving drawing energy in from the environment and shaping it instead of sourcing it from your own innate magic.
ehh combined setting and its for everyone and diluted obviously.

Edit: Speaking of our bullshit future does anyone have the scaling of exp needed for when our essence goes up that dp made a while ago? I'm curious if we're halfway towards essence 4 yet in total exp acquisition.
 
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well yeah but like that shit would be as impressive as past 5 dot shit right? Its not like we can get that normally here.
Holden did not translate Sorcerous Workings in ExWod at all.

Either the magic in the world can't carry them, or it's his basic opposition to DMing for truly worldchanging things.
It has been mentioned once or twice that his imagined campaign for the setting would end with the Solars beating down some ancient Vampire or Nephandi conspiracy to end the world, not with kingdom-building, recreating ancient wonders and reforming a new Deliberative.
 
Holden did not translate Sorcerous Workings in ExWod at all.

Either the magic in the world can't carry them, or it's his basic opposition to DMing for truly worldchanging things.
It has been mentioned once or twice that his imagined campaign for the setting would end with the Solars beating down some ancient Vampire or Nephandi conspiracy to end the world, not with kingdom-building, recreating ancient wonders and reforming a new Deliberative.
Well we don't need to worry about that until we break past essence 5 if ever. I imagine essence 5 alone is gonna be like 4 years from now real life or something.
 
Well we don't need to worry about that until we break past essence 5 if ever. I imagine essence 5 alone is gonna be like 4 years from now real life or something.
Sorcerous Workings are not limited to Elder Essence, as far as I know.

It's just that the higher Circles of Sorcery, as well as Workings, existed in Exalted and don't exist in ExWoD, with no connection to the Essence-limit.

Edit: Workings are basically just Rituals, but for Sorcery and I believe more freeform than the pre-existing spells.
 
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I am super tempted to find some manner of focus to trace the history of Dresden's reincarnations. Maybe spend an AP on working with him to recall those.
 
Sorcerous Workings are not limited to Elder Essence, as far as I know.

It's just that the higher Circles of Sorcery, as well as Workings, existed in Exalted and don't exist in ExWoD, with no connection to the Essence-limit.

Edit: Workings are basically just Rituals, but for Sorcery and I believe more freeform than the pre-existing spells.
Okay but we're probably not gonna make custom mechanics for anything unless its post essence 5.
 
The equivalent of an artifact as demonreach would be one of the reality engines to shield cities or the defense grid which defeated the raksha armies.
 
Ehhhhhhh that's reaching a bit considering Sorcery isn't just magic, it's a specific kind of magic involving drawing energy in from the environment and shaping it instead of sourcing it from your own innate magic.

Edit: I could definitely see the circle thing as a result of a Sorcerous Working, just not specifically the Salinian Working

It cannot have been the Salinian Working since that preceded the Age of Sorrows, just pointing out the ethos of the School of Sorcery was 'let everyone have magic' to the point where they almost broke the world. The Salinian working in the Age of Sorrows would do such lovely weirdness as 'if the last Sorcerer who knew a specific spell died passing it on it would become encoded in the feathers of a local bird that mutated to hold it and would breed true for however long it would take for the knowldge to pass on'.
 
@Yog : You ever tried to see how good of a counterfeit Molly could manage to make of a sword of the cross? Of course many of the swords powers seems to be more a case of sponsorship rather than just the sword, but it is purposely hard to tell where the line is.
 
@Yog : You ever tried to see how good of a counterfeit Molly could manage to make of a sword of the cross? Of course many of the swords powers seems to be more a case of sponsorship rather than just the sword, but it is purposely hard to tell where the line is.
I made the sword in stone for fun, but not swords of the cross. As a workaround, I could see using transformation to grant someone a 6 dot merit "guardian angel". I'll have to think about this.
 
Sure, that sounds interesting.

Let's start with the basic Balkan Slavic Dragon taxonomy:

There are four very different words that all translate into dragon. Their Serbian versions are: Zmaj, Ala, Aždaha/Aždaja and Lamja. Shapeshifters one and all. in Balkan Slavic mythologies Dragons start out as either snakes or carps (Croatians also believe wels catfish can do this too) that then "reveal their legs" after around 10/12/30/33/40/50/100 years and become adult Dragons. So juvenile Dragons look just like snakes/carps and then undergo a metamorphosis into adult dragons. Or they are especially powerful Silvan herd dogs that become a zmaj trough the nobility of their spirit and the endurance of their loyalty.

Zmajevi (plural of zmaj) are the good, noble dragons. Think metallic dragons from DnD in character, but the appearance of either the stereotypical fantasy dragon or a flaming bird with a snake's tail. There are no half-dragons/polu-zmajevi with humans. Any child born from a union of a zmaj and a human woman is human and also a hero while any child born of a union of a human man and a zmaj is a zmaj. The pregnancy with a zmaj child is difficult for a human woman, lasts 15-20 months and the birth can kill them. Zmaj is treated as gender neutral, but I've never heard someone say zmaj man/male, but I have heard of people saying zmaj woman/female as a descriptor of a woman's fierceness or other such "male" qualities.

Ale (plural of Ala) on the other hand are always snakes as juveniles for a century, unless they are Aesculapian snakes/Smukovi in which case they are juvenile for 40 years and can reach at least a stable earth orbit as adults in flight, and as they mature they become monsters of a class of their own. They appear as Snakelike Abominations (sometimes multi-headed and/or multilimbed and/or winged, one of these that is from Knjaževac according to myth is basically a wingless and limbless King Ghidorah that can still fly and has three different breath weapons (one for each head): one mouth caries fairies and winds, one mouth carries storms, hails, tempests and diseases and one mouth releases evil deeds), Giant Eagles, Black Whirlwinds, Gaunt Pale Humans that devour crops sometimes able to turn themselves into an unkindness of ravens. Ale's have an elemental form that is a black whirlwind and it is made of wind and gluttony/famine. They are quite literally famine elementals/dragons.

Ale are the most powerful of Balkan Slavic Dragons and in their own weight class of power all at once.

In Serbian mythology anyone/anybeing powerful enough (starting with certain kings/nobles and moving on up) can take on an elemental form, but the most common one is windstorm because any other elemental form is going to leave devastation in their wake if they move with it so only air/wind elementalists use their elemental forms for something other than WMD/Fuck Anyone Over There. Except for Ale and God.

Now when I say God I mean the Christian God as the pre-Christianity Gods were still under this mystical restriction. God gets to do elemental forms other than wind and not be destructive, Ale do wind as devouring destruction.

Aždahe/Aždaje (plural of aždaha/aždaja) are literally the bad dragons. More specifically the name refers to snake descendants of the Lernaean Hydra that can have 1,2,3,7 and 9 heads. Always snakes in juvenile form, can sometimes mature early if they eat another snake at 12 and 30 years (100 year olds will sometimes still eat another snake if they think they will benefit from that) of age or if they manage to reach 40 years of age while remaining unseen by humans, otherwise it's wait until they are 12 or 40 or a 100. Sometimes they are giant snakes, sometimes they are stub four-legged bat-winged blue fire-breathing snake abominations, sometimes the one-headed ones are lion-headed fire-tongued long-tailed large winged lizards or have an armored head like sač that makes them impervious to head trauma. All aždahe/aždaje are bulletressistant, can only be killed by beheading but can be wounded by other means, spawn vermin on death from their bodies disintegrating, their thirst can be truly colossal and is only quenched when their desires are fulfilled and they also live in hell as part of it's ecosystem on top of living in caves/lakes/forests on earth. The dragon St. George killed was one of them according to Serbian myths. If an ordinary mortal kills them they will die soon after. Heroes, Saints, Kings or anyone else with some vague amount of power can kill them and live since that curse won't affect them. Though they may need to heal from it.

The difference between an ala and an aždaha/aždaja are multiple:

- An ala is a gluttony and famine elemental while an aždaha/aždaja is an (sometimes) earthly animalistic demon that uses it's stomach as a vault of stolen things.

- Sometimes the aždaha's/aždaja's meal can be recovered from their gullet/stomach unharmed while whatever an ala eats is gone though souls may survive to move onto the afterlife.

- Snakelike beings that are world or star eaters or something similar like Jörmungandr are classified as an aždaha/aždaja.

- Ale can have children with humans while aždahe/aždaje cannot. The human almost always dies: The mother at birth consumed from within and the father is usually devoured after conception. The human child born to a mother will always become an Ala if some sort of an intervention isn't done.

- You can reason with an ala as futile as such things are most of the time, but there is no reasoning with with an aždaha/aždaja and any appearance of such is to your detriment.

- Ala is associated with hunger and gluttony while aždaha/aždaja is with thirst and greed (or sometimes lust).

- An aždaha/aždaja can be satiated temporarily, but an ala is always hungry. This is why an individual aždaha/aždaja can be more powerful than an ala, but ale are considered the most powerful dragons: An aždaha/aždaja can stop and think and wait and plot and withdraw. Ale for all their power cannot stop. Just be directed.

As for the lamje (plural of lamja)? They claim that they are descended from the Greek Lamia and have a magic that breaks stone and wood with thunder and are really fond of causing droughts to blackmail communities to give them human resources/sacrifices. Also their pregnancies last 15-20 months, children are always sired with completely evil people, either another lamja or such a piece of human/mortal shit that a Nazi would object to working with them on moral principles alone (think Rape of Nanjing), and they use horndust of bulls, bullocks and oxen mixed inside decapitated snake heads in their mystical workings.

I'll do vampire progenitors and Usud in separate posts.
 
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